WOT No EU Referendum Thread?

You have two choices.

Vote in: birds will sing. Our French neighbours will nestle you into there sweaty arm pits in an act of love.
Everything will be the same and the corrupt Un elected Europe will run things.

Leave: giant lizards will smash through our city's, a massive monkey will climb big Ben and everything will cost 1zillion pounds more.
The Eaton boys will have absolute power.
But.....trade deals will remain the same. The tax payer will still subsidise the farmers (we miss a lot of our quotas so pay more of the bill than they report) and we are free to make better contracts on things.

Like the USA putting 545% tax on Chinese steel. If Europe had done that we wouldn't have the steel crisis.

I'm for remain if we had sorted out the clunky thieving machine that is Europe.

I'm out because of the lies and parading ww2 vets telling people he is ashamed that he went to war for Europe.
If we are better you don't need to lie and be under hand.

Both camps had 7m.....the tories made a leaflet outside of this for 9 million of our hard earned tax payers money.

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Originally Posted by Tanuki

As has been stated above there is a lot of bs floating around on both sides and it's hard for anyone to know what the actual consequences will be. The question we might ask ourselves is what will benefit me, my job, my life? Not the country or some git politician or some inflated idea of nationality. And that is to remain, simple.

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It's about the children

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Originally Posted by def

It's about the children

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Sod em, i dont have any and would much rather watch a hilarious double act of Boris and Trumpy cause havoc on the world than the boring life we now have.
Besides who doesnt want to see WW3... it will be great, in HD and everyfink.

Give me one good reason to stay in? The way i see it we can stay in with all the coruption and trouble that is going on in Europe and things will stay the same... Or we can leave and have a shot at making things better for oursleves and by that i mean my kids, your kids etc etc. I honestly believe they deserve that chance.

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The leave campaign keep banging on about the 350m a day when the figure isnt anywhere near that, one you take off Maggies rebate and the amount we get back its less than £1 a day per person. The chart below just shows how insignificant our contribution to the EU is but people see a large number and think its all the money we have.

https://fullfact.org/wp-content/uplo...-Function2.png

So you can now see the money 'saved' isnt going to save the NHS :no:

Some questions that I dont think have been answered if we leave

When visiting EU countries will you need a Visa? This will mean large queues at arrivals and business trips will be hit hard
European Health Insurance, are we no longer covered? Ok travel insurance isnt expensive but it was nice to have.
Do Expats become illegal immigrants and have to apply for citizenship?
What happens to EU migrants already here?

The engineering industry is going to be hit hard as it will become more expensive and difficult to ship parts between the UK and European plants meaning British plants will be at risk of closure. If you are going to go to all the hassle of shipping parts to a country outside the EU then it makes more sense to use one with cheaper labour costs.

As for the 'unelected' making decisions, House of Lords anyone?

Far far too many unknowns to leave, house prices, interest rates, job security, food prices, travel, etc etc and all the leave campaign have is

'Save the NHS' - we have already establish the money is a drop in the ocean and wont make a dent in the NHS
'Stop the foreigners' - 5% of the population are from other EU countries and around 4% are from non EU countries so who says bringing in tighter controls for EU countries will reduce this number? Immigration control doesnt seem to mean less people? Illegal immigrants will still come over in the back of trucks.

Far too many people reading headlines and not sniffing out the facts.

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Originally Posted by AP2

Give me one good reason to stay in?

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But what about the giant lizards and the monkeys? Austerity? NHS? 4300 out of your pocket? Obammmmaaaaaa.

For me you hit the nail on the head.

Sideways. Have you been playing to much fall out 4?
I bet you spent hours making your own post apocalyptic house on the game and now think fook it. I prefer this to my real life lol.

Are you coming to the Weekender? We need to have a beer or nuke cola.

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Originally Posted by AP2

Give me one good reason to stay in? The way i see it we can stay in with all the coruption and trouble that is going on in Europe and things will stay the same... Or we can leave and have a shot at making things better for oursleves and by that i mean my kids, your kids etc etc. I honestly believe they deserve that chance.

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How about the fact a large percentage of the country will be negative equity if house prices plummet and then be worse off when interest prices rise?

Companies going under due to increased red tape and costs for exporting to Europe

How will going it alone will we be making it 'better for ourselves'? Why is being in the EU so 'terrible' A lot of the laws the EU make actually protect and benefit us :nod: do you really trust any UK government enough to make decisions for us?

Why would house prices plummet?

I've paid no attention to any of this EU stuff apart from this thread, What's this bit about?

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How about the fact a large percentage of the country will be negative equity if house prices plummet and then be worse off when interest prices rise?

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A lot of speculation surrounding the out campaign saying house prices could drop by up to 20% iirc.

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Originally Posted by Mark

How about the fact a large percentage of the country will be negative equity if house prices plummet and then be worse off when interest prices rise?

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It could be argued that is a good thing as at the moment the house prices are higher than ridiculous. Try searching Zoopla in the SE9 area for houses (the ones you'll find below £350k are all on dodgy estates), I don't consider myself to be a low earner any more but I still can't afford a house around here so am stuck living in a flat instead. If I moved further out to be able to get a cheaper house, I'm looking at an increase in monthly costs of around £1,000 due to increased train fares and childcare.

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Originally Posted by Chriscooke

A lot of speculation surrounding the out campaign saying house prices could drop by up to 20% iirc.

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Around here they are going up 20-30% a year anyway.
I bought my flat for £250k in March last year, another in far worse condition has just sold for £320k. Based on that price, I couldn't even buy this place any more as my income has only risen by about 2%.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FZRuIhtC9Mo

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Originally Posted by AP2

Give me one good reason to stay in? The way i see it we can stay in with all the coruption and trouble that is going on in Europe and things will stay the same... Or we can leave and have a shot at making things better for oursleves and by that i mean my kids, your kids etc etc. I honestly believe they deserve that chance.

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But no one on the Leave side has actually made any logical case for things "being better" either. So right back at you?

The whole sovereignty argument makes no sense. At the moment, we have some say in the small number of rules that govern us from the EU. They make up less than 15% of all UK legislation by the way. Whether we are represented properly/fairly or otherwise is a function of the people who we elect and what they actually do in European parliament and is an argument for another day. If we were all to vote to Leave, the things that are made for export to the EU will still need to be made to their standards... except now we have absolutely no say at all in what those standards are. Does that seem like gaining "control" back to you? It's not like we vote to leave and suddenly there is a smorgasbord of trading opportunities that will open right up to us, those sorts of deals take a huge amount of time and we are a service rich country which isn't a great starting point in all honesty. The largest trade entity on the planet is 20 miles off the coast and we export the majority of what we do to them, so we will always be tied to the market whether we like it or not. It's cheap to get stuff there for starters and we can afford to be competitive.

There is no evidence to suggest we'll save any money either. In fact, it's quite likely that we'll still be made to pay a fee to access the single market and we will still have free movement of people to contend with, like the other countries do that are in the EEC, but not in the EU. However we are left in the rubbish position of having no say on anything that happens in the EU while still being tied into the two things which the Leave campaign has made the most noise about.

Why can't we lead in Europe? Why are the only options "leave" or "suffer" as the politicians are all playing it? We don't have to accept a currency union or deeper integration into the EU to do it either, but since there doesn't seem to be any one capable of negotiating with the international community in the government then I suppose those are the only two options.

The vote is insignificant! There is waaaaay too much broken in society, the financial industry and the government's here and abroad!! It will all be for nothing as it won't change a thing! If we leave something will suffer, if we stay something else will suffer! Therefore I see it as irrelevant either way!

I won't be devastated when I wake up on the 24th either way, however I am going to vote to remain.

Safes:
- We already know the rules, already follow them, and we don't lose out by much. Someone upthread said £1 per day per person. That's as useless a number as any other I've heard, but if true, is £365/year which is a lot of money, but not when compared to some other insurance policies SXOC folks might have more direct interest in.
- War. People joke about it, but it is not long ago when our neighbours had cannons pointed at Blighty. You only have to look at Ukraine and Russia to see how easily things go wrong. Being in the EU massively reduces the risk of war with an EU country.

Risks:
- We get sucked into closer EU federalism. UK Politicians would have to continually fight for our want to be the slightly outsider, or we will get sucked in.
- The Euro collapses. I believe this will happen.
Shared currencies can only work, when there is shared governance of pretty much everything. Previous attempts at shared currencies without shared government have all failed. I don't want the UK to be in the Euro, ever.

erm.. there's other stuff like people movement and bends on cucumbers, and inefficient administration to argue about, but I'd still want to be in the club please, even if once in, I do moan and bitch a bit.

EDIT - moan and bitch a bit, means have some power to change things from inside.

It seems to me like Britain are in the best possible position in the EU right now. You currently get all of the benefits of being a member, i.e. import/export, travel etc, but you aren't stuck with the worst part, i.e. the Euro currency. It's a win-win situation as far as I see it.

Every single government in the world suffers from degrees of corruption and shite decision-making, that's just politics. Regardless of whether you are in the EU or not, people will still read the Sun, and vote idiots into power who will run the country into the ground. But hey, at least you'll be "making your own way in the world".

It only recently that most of England were whinging about Scotland wanting to be independent and making very similar arguments for them to stay in the UK as the REMAIN campaign is making now.

Honestly I've no idea why you'd want to leave, however being Irish I couldn't give two fat fcuks if you do or don't.

But if you're that desperate to be on your own you could start by fcuking off out of Ireland and giving us our six counties back :wack::wave::wack:

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Originally Posted by AP2

I'm an out, even if it ends up costing me more money, just the thought of being governed by bureaucrats that we haven't elected or have the possibility of changing with a democratic vote is enough for me

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Who did you vote for in the House of Lords then? ;)

Ive said much on this elsewhere, but as the owner of a business that trades extensively with the EU and beyond Ive seen the benefits of EU membership time and again - true, most are economic but most of your life is governed by economics.

To deal with a few favourite "out" arguments:

Control of our borders: At the moment we do control our borders, any non EU immigrant needs a VISA to come and work here and its generally agreed that EU immigration is a net benefit for the UK, not to mention us being able to go do business there. Leaving will not stop illegal immigration, the clue is in the name.

Finance: There is absolutely no doubt that out of the EU the UK will be a much smaller financial force globally speaking. We will also still have to contribute in order to trade (see Norways contribution) and would have vast amounts of administration to do setting up and policing new trade agreements.

Britain as a Great Nation once again: Impossible. People harking back to Churchill and even before forget that we are now in a global economy where we couldnt hope to compete with India, China and South America in production - in 1945 youd be lucky to find a telephone in most of these places, they can now sell direct to my front door. Its not a comparable situation at all.

Law: What was the last law imposed on us by the EU you really didnt agree with? And yet no-one disagrees with the employment and environmental legislation?

Security: Anyone that doesnt think that the EU pooling their intelligence against terrorism (which lets be fair, we see bugger all of) is off their head.

I hate to say it but I dont actually think 90% of the population have enough knowledge to make an informed decision, I get terrified by some of the utter shyte people are basing a leave decision on (mainly hatred of Cameron and "immigration", see above) ............ Richard Dawkins says:

“It is much too difficult and detailed to be left to voters who know no economics and tend to say things like, ‘Well I was going to vote Leave but I can’t stand Boris Johnson’s hair so I’m going to vote Remain.’ Or, ‘I was going to vote Remain but Cameron needs punishing so I’m going to vote Leave.’ "

You sure about the visa have a friend here Aussie who managed to get a German passport from a distant relative for no other reason but to live and work in the UK. No visa required non EU member shes Australian with an Australian passport also.

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Originally Posted by auz200sx

You sure about the visa have a friend here Aussie who managed to get a German passport from a distant relative for no other reason but to live and work in the UK. No visa required non EU member shes Australian with an Australian passport also.

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Do you mean she got a passport from her German relative and came to the UK posing as that relative? Because if so, that's pretty illegal, and not covered under any actual immigration arguments, for or against.

All i no is she battled like **** to get the passport for like 4 years was eventually allowed it and used it to gain access to the UK