Beginners Guide to Trackdays

Given the amount of interest in trackdays this year, I wondered if it was worth getting together a basic trackday FAQ jobby for the forum. Feel free to add anything you think I’ve missed or correct any glaring errors.


Events:

May be airfield or ‘proper’ track. Airfields invariably have the circuit marked in cones, and are nice and flat with loads of runoff. Especially good for beginners, you can push hard and explore the handling – but the tradeoff will be high wear rates on brakes and tyres. Proper circuits are a lot less forgiving, but much more interesting to drive with variable gradients and more of a general challenge


Format

Open-Pitlane or Sessioned. Open pitlane has the bonus that you can go out whenever you like as long as the track doesn’t get too crowded, but there may be a wide skill mix on track, meaning you may find yourself held up a lot. Sessioned days tend to group similar abilities together. In addition, on sessioned events, you will probably experience less wear on consumables as things are less likely to overheat.


Helmets/clothing

Helmets are generally available for hire from tracks/trackday companies on the day. Or you can buy your own. You can get a perfectly adequate bike helmet from your local bike shop for about £100. if you value your head more you can pay a lot more for a proper motorsport helmet. Most trackday organisers insist that arms and legs are covered, so make sure you wear a long-sleeved top. Footwear wise you can wear what you like, but a nice flat-soled shoe is probably the most sensible option
Pistonheads Helmet Guide.
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=13304

Paperwork

You and any additional drivers/passengers will be required to sign a standard indemnity form on the day. Some tracks may need to see your driving licence – make sure you check before you get there, but if you haven’t got it they will usually phone the DVLA to check for a nominal fee


Car
If you're preping your car the day before thats too late. You need time to ensure everything is A1, any new brake pads are well bedded in (500miles) and to test it all out before arriving at the track.

Ensure all fluid levels are well topped up – you may experience surge due to the abnormal loads generated by track use if levels are too low. Make sure tyres have enough tread to last the day and get you home – spare wheels are a good investment. Tyre fitting may be available - depends on the organiser. Run a few PSi extra in each tyre. They'll wear more evenly in extreme use

Same goes for brakes. Make sure you have plenty of pad material and keep an eye on pad wear throughout the day. It's worth doing a cool down lap before you stop and never put the handbrake on after coming in from a track session.

200s are great on track as standard, but to make them better, uprate brakes, suspension, cooling and power in that order;). A few gauges to let you know what the engines going through won’t hurt either, and may save you from blowing it up. Some circuits will ask you to tape up your lights so its worth taking a roll of electrical tape and a knife.

Don't run the petrol tank too empty - you could run into problems if you get fuel surge, and if you run out of fuel and cause a red flag you will not be liked, and may be fined by the trackday organiser. A 200SX uses about 1/4 tank every 30 mins so you need a lot of petrol. Add to that the possibility of petrol starvation on a 1/4 full tank and you need to be on the ball. Be sure to fill up before arrival at the circuit. Some people use Jerry cans also. If you have done your research and found the local SUL station you may be able to pop out at lunch.

Keep oils and fluids at maximum levels, take top-ups for the day and check everything before you start the car for the next session, between every session.


Mods for the track

It’s all budget dependant really. But there are some simple cost-effective things to do which will make the car better on track

Brakes:
Fade is the enemy on track, and any standard braking setup will start to fade if used hard.
First thing is uprated front pads – we generally accept Ferodo DS2500s as being the best pad for fast road/track on here, but other options are available.
Uprated fluid is a must, and less than 12months old – less prone to boiling with overuse, this can have harsh consequences.
Uprate the discs when they are due for a change – grooved/drilled dissipate heat better, bigger discs also handle heat better.
Some ducting won't do any harm

Tyres:
As on the road its the only contact you have with the ground.
Track driving puts much more heat into your tyre than on the road, and may feel different
Track driving wears tyres much quicker than on the road, and can vary quite a lot track to track.
Just because a tyre is good on the road dosnt make it good on the track.
Slicks or Semi slick trackday tyres are suitable but can put much more strain on your brakes, bushes and can lead to fuel/oil surge in extreme use if precations arent taken.
Concrete airfeilds eat tyres even more.

Suspension:
Probably the most cost-effective upgrade is strut braces and uprated ARBs – shouldn’t compromise ride too much.
Uprated shocks and springs will make things even better.
To go the whole hog you’ll be wanting coilovers, but the ride on normal roads will be compromised the further you go. Think about what you want to use the car for.
A car with stock suspension will also eat tyres more quickly.

Cooling/Gauges:
Things get very hot on track, and the loads are impossible to recreate in any road driving.
FMIC is virtually a necessity on a modded 200. An oil cooler is another sensible step.
Gauges for Water & oil temp and oil pressure are a prudent choice – an alarmed setup is even better.
Fabricating some ducting/cooling panels in the engine bay will help cooling. Turn the boost down a little for track use. most of us on the standard turbos only run 12-13 PSi on track.

interior
A standard seat is fine, even in leather, if not perfect.
A harness can help you stay in your seat with less effort, and if you can afford it is well worth having.
Bucket seats can dont cost much, subframes double the cost. Seats can be changed in around 10mins if youdont wish to have it in all the time. Probably only needed if your planning to do a lot of trackdays in a heavily modded car.


Driving

Make sure you listen to the drivers briefing.
It’s all fairly common sense so I won’t go into too much detail – suffice to say observe overtaking rules – invariably on straights only and by consent only.
Be courteous, use your mirrors, get out of the way of faster cars.
Its not a race and its more fun trying to keep up

Flags:
same system applies on most trackdays, and it's the universally accepted motorsport flags which are used
-green - track is open
-red - session stopped, make your way back to the pit - be careful as emergency vehicles may be on the track
-yellow - there is an incident - slow down and no overtaking until you get the all-clear
-yellow/red stripes - slippery surface - be careful
-blue -you're holding someone up, let them past at the next opprtunity
-black - you are being pulled over for an infringement or problem with your car

Coning
often the organiser will set some cones around the track - these serve as a basic guide to braking points and lines through the corners. The most you''ll is a cone on the outside of the straight before the corner - that's your braking point. There'll be another cone at the turn-in point, and another at apex of the corner. And one on the exit at the point you should be at the edge of the track. Not all organisers will lay cones, or all of the above cones, but if you see odd couloured, or tall cones at these points they may be there to help you. Ste mentions cornering techniques below. Initially treat the cones/markers with respect, and learn the basic lines, then later in the day as you learn to judge your car's limits better you can push things a little more.


A Few Important Bits of Advice

1. You are not God’s gift to driving, and it’s not a race – just enjoy yourself. If you bear this in mind you are much less likely to break your car or yourself
2. Limit yourself to 15-20 min sessions– you’ll find you are much easier on brakes/tyres, and less likely to overdo things
3. Get some tuition – it’ll make you a better driver
4. Above all, have fun – you have the opportunity to play with a quick car in a controlled environment – it’ll be a blast:D
5. Read SteA's tips post 7... http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showpost.php...51&postcount=9
6. Read Jez's tips post 13 ... http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showpost.php...7&postcount=13
7. Read Mono Phil's tips post 16 ... http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showpost.php...1&postcount=16


SM's Edit: Included some of my own thoughts and good points from the comments below.

sounds good - ill be getting myself to at least a few track days this year - current things stopping me are a) finishing mapping and b) my clutch is acting very oddly :)

decent sort of FAQ intro thing to it, might want to mention about spare tyres / possibility of tyre fitters on the day? not sure. since ive never been :wack:

Being a newbie myself, the more info the better :) Read most of this already researching previously :nod: however it is still good to have everything in one place here in the motorsport section. :thumbs:

I would have found this thread so useful if it was here a month ago :wack: :smash:

Hope to get some good skill going and come up for a trackday near you guys sometime :nod:

Thanks,
Martin :thumbs:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alanjuggler

decent sort of FAQ intro thing to it, might want to mention about spare tyres / possibility of tyre fitters on the day? not sure. since ive never been :wack:

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good point - depends who the organiser is, and they'll usually say if tyre fitting is available. BaT generally have tyre fitting available, and the last trackdays.co.uk day i was on had the facilities too. iirc they know how to charge though;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dr bob

Car

Must be roadworthy. Ensure all fluid levels are well topped up – you may experience surge due to the abnormal loads generated by track use if levels are too low. Make sure tyres have enough tread to last the day and get you home – spare wheels are a good investment. Same goes for brakes. Keep an eye on pad wear throughout the day.

200s are great on track as standard, but to make them better, uprate brakes, suspension, cooling and power in that order;). A few gauges to let you know what the engines going through won’t hurt either, and may save you from blowing it up.

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It's worth doing a cool down lap before you stop and never put the handbrake on after coming in from a track session.

Some circuits will ask you to tape up your lights so its worth taking a roll of electrical tape and a knife.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dr bob

@Kev - dunno if you were working on something like this already mate - just thought it might be useful for a few trackday virgins

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I was, well in my head, but this is good so we'll use this, and add bits about useful mods / brakes / costs ect ..

:thumbs:

cheers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NikB

It's worth doing a cool down lap before you stop and never put the handbrake on after coming in from a track session.

Some circuits will ask you to tape up your lights so its worth taking a roll of electrical tape and a knife.

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amended - cheers:thumbs:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SM

I was, well in my head, but this is good so we'll use this, and add bits about useful mods / brakes / costs ect ..

:thumbs:

cheers

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:thumbs: was thinking i'd probably split the car bit to make it more detailed. feel free to tweak the post wherever you like:)

edit - few additions made;)

Excellent :nod: a lot of effort went into that :notworthy

A few tips for driving from my limited experience......

Its always very tempting on your first lap to push on and keep up with others even if you promised yourself you wouldnt :nod: dont :no: , make a point of being disciplined, progressively increasing pace and getting a feel for the track.

Your brakes last a lot longer if you brake progressively and dont try and brake late. You make up a lot more time learning how to corner properly than pounding your brakes into dust. Remember anything that unloads the car eg going over a dip, the car pitching forward under braking, thus lightening the rear will reduce grip at the respective end.

Think of traction as being split into different percentages. e.g. Imagine a car goes round a corner at the fastest possible speed whilst maintaining grip without any acceleration or braking as 100%. Now if you add any acceleration or braking you will exceed the grip the car has and loose control. However, if you went round the corner at say 85% of maximum you could accelerate with/up to 15% of your grip and probably get more speed on the following straight.... well you get the idea :)

Think about balance under braking, use the engine and heel and toe if you can to best match rpm and speed. I prefer to have done all of my braking by the time I hit the corner and enter with constant throttle then accelerate from the apex using some of my saved up grip :thumbs:

The best line through a corner is usually the line with the biggest radius.

Dont under estimate the power of simple mods like ducting, has a massive effect on track :D The other thing that has a massive effect is sticking to short sessions, that will save you soooooo much money you wouldnt believe.

When you replace brakes make sure the hubs and brakes are completely free of crap, wont cause problems on the road, but on track you will soon have a fecked pair of disks.

Get some jerry cans for spare fuel, always useful. :)

Hope this helps a little.

More useful stuff :nod: hadn't thought of some of that :thumbs:

My limited trackday experience (motorbike):

Never follow someone who looks like they now what they are doing as they will usually end up in the gravel on the next corner.

Don't obsess too much on what is going on behind you, concentrate on your own driving.

Don't blow up your engine as it is far scarier to go around donnington in the back of the van sat on a bike than it is riding it. (this probably doesn't apply to cars)

You will be shit on your first few trackdays.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frisbee

You will be shit on your first few trackdays.

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:thumbs: that'll be me, shitting myself that Bren doesn't imbed his motor into the back of mine - as we seem to be sharing track time at Japfest :eek:

Excellent info there guys,

Rich

My advise would be, in addition to the above:
1) don't hold up or try to out run people behind you if they've caught you up - even if they're in a "slower" car. I've spun before because I thought I was quicker than an MX5
2) use your mirrors - get out of the way of faster cars - its not a race and its more fun trying to keep up ;)

Car stuff:
You engine and brakes will worked harder than possible on the road - regardless of how hard you think you drive on the road. Don't go out with old brake fluid - I've seen at least 1 car in the armco cos the fluid boiled and the driver ended up with no brakes at all - much worse than fade.
Run less boost than on the road: everything gets a lot hotter, det will be a lot more likely

This thread is great :nod: full of excellent info for a beginner like me :notworthy

Thanks for putting this thread together - has been a great read for a noob like me, especially as it looks like i'll be doing 5 or 6 track days this year.

:thumbs:

My Advice

1. If you're preping your car the day before thats too late. You need time to ensure no mistakes and to test it all out before arriving at the track. This cost me dear last time out with a pair of flat tyres :(

2. Learn how to Heel and toe. H&T saves your clutch no end, imagine all that heat building up in the thing as you repeatedly feed it in on the downshift if you don't H&T. Also dumping in the clutch hard on a slippery surface or worse entering a corner could result in the diff locking and spinning you off. I'll put a Phils guide to modding the pedals for it but the rest is down to practise, and I find you can only do that when driving hard.

3. Brake in a straight line only - common sense that one. And don't use Silicone brake fluid

4. If somebody comes up behind you they are faster, end of. let them by ASAP, don't try to outdrag them on the straights and then hold them up round the corners FFS

5. Petrol. My car uses about 1/4 tank every 30 mins so you need a lot of petrol. Add to that the possibility of petrol starvation on a 1/4 full tank and you need to be on the ball. If you're staying overnight somewhere, fill up on arrival. Some people use Jerry cans also. If you have done your research and found the local SUL station you may be able to pop out at lunch. Be aware that many of these circuits seem to be in the sticks and thats not near a SUL supplier

:)

Thread is excellent advice.

I found an EVO magazine two nights ago that is about 2 years old, and they give very similar advice, did a few pages on trackdays for novices.

They only thing I can't see covered is petrol. I assume you make sure you have a full tank first, but if you run out during the day if it's multi sessioned, and your car is mapped on Optimax, do you have to leave the circuit to find a shell garage at lunch, or is fuel supplied that is at least an equivalent etc.

Thanks.

P.S. Still looking for my trackday car as I'm one of the growing number not wanting to use my 200 on track, at least until more track experience gained.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scottie

They only thing I can't see covered is petrol. I assume you make sure you have a full tank first, but if you run out during the day if it's multi sessioned, and your car is mapped on Optimax, do you have to leave the circuit to find a shell garage at lunch, or is fuel supplied that is at least an equivalent etc.

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Hmm yes see above

This is a great thread. Very informative, very helpful.:nod:

Really wanna do my first track day myself but i've gotta re-build the bar steward first! But i will definatley refer back to this once i'm a bit closer to the time!:thumbs:

Being that i work on an airfield i can hopefully get a bit of practice before showing everyone how slow i am!:ghey:

People have said about mirrors but it might be worth noting that people will be comming up behind you a lot faster than they do on the road so you need to really keep an eye on them. That's what I found anyway but then I'm rubbish (at the moment :p )

suberb thread, been thinking about doing my first track day and been looking for info, Top Job, answered all my questions! :thumbs: :notworthy :thumbs:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dr bob

Helmets/clothing

Helmets are generally available for hire from tracks/trackday companies on the day. Or you can buy your own. You can get a perfectly adequate bike helmet from your local bike shop for about £100. if you value your head more you can pay a lot more for a proper motorsport helmet. Most trackday organisers insist that arms and legs are covered, so make sure you wear a long-sleeved top. Footwear wise you can wear what you like, but a nice flat-soled shoe is probably the most sensible option

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Just found a good article on Pistonheads about helmets:

http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=13304

A couple of thoughts, if someone overtake you don't try TOO hard to keep up, they have overtaken you because they are faster than you. Don't wear trainers or shoes with a thick sole(you won't be able to feel the pedals) You can get a cheap set of Kart boots for £30 ish, and you'll be amazed by the difference it makes, likewise particularly on hot days a cheap set of race gloves or mountain bike mitts will give you better purchase on the steering wheel. Have a go and enjoy.

For anyone new to the trackday world we run Novice Only trackdays where you can come along for an morning, afternoon, full day or just an evening. The idea of these is that you can come and play with other newbie track drivers and therefore not be intimidated by the more experienced crowd.

All the details of which of our novice days are on our website which you can go to by clicking on the banner below.

If you would simply like to come along and see what goes on then you are more than welcome, just turn up and have a look round. Nearly all drivers on trackdays are petrol heads so they won't have a problem at all if you go up and ask a few questions. We also have instructors on all our days that will be more than happy to offer some advice on what to do if you are coming to an event.

Similarly, if you would like to give me a call I'm more than happy to answer any questions you might have.

I look forward to meeting quite a few of you on the SXOC Track evening on the 18th April. For anyone that is not going hopefully we'll meet at one of our trackdays soon.

Kind regards,

Alex Baker
Club Brands Hatch
01474 875216
alex.baker@motorsportvision.co.uk

Just a thought. I'm new to track days myself but what I have learnt is that weight makes just as much differance as power. If your car is built for track use as is mine then loose what you don't need as it only slows you down. Plus a roll cage offers more than just protection, it will stiffen the car and although add weight it will make you faster.

To drive fast you have to be smooth and balanced. If not you will end up off the track. Think of it as hitting a glass bottle with a hammer. If you just push the bottle it wont do anything but if you swing at it, it will break.

Great thread !

Looks like a need a lot of work doing to my car before going to a circuit!!

BTW, What uprated fluid should be used on a s13 ?? (Uprated fluid that is..).

Cheers,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DeBastaard

Great thread !

Looks like a need a lot of work doing to my car before going to a circuit!!

BTW, What uprated fluid should be used on a s13 ?? (Uprated fluid that is..).

Cheers,

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I use Halfords DOT 5.1 and never had any trouble with boiling on any car so far, even in the Coupe at a fast track like Bedford. :)


To add to the guide, i'm pretty conservative and limit my tracktime to 3 laps + a cool down lap. Anything more than that and you can really feel the road tyres starting to fade/wear more, and that's even in my relatively light Clio or previous MX5. Most of the time you see shredded/bald tyres are when someone stays out on track for many laps *coughs, Kev ;)

During the day make sure you eat and drink! I find it is easy to forget!

It sounds a bit girlie :ghey: , but come prepared with a combination of warm clothes (arctic survival gear at some tracks!), cloths to wipe your hands on - I find wet wipes handy, lip balm, suntan lotion and assorted bits like this.

The advice given about not trying to chase after another car is sensible, but at the same time i find it is more fun to follow/chase another car and great for finding better lines than the car in front.

Courtesy - don't tail gate a slower car, or trying to pick strange driving lines to show how much quicker you are; I never do this, but other cars do, making things pretty hairy when you can't see them in a blind spot.

Instructor - Hugely valuable and the best single mod you can have. I try not to book these until the afternoon (if you get a choice), as the first few hours on track will just be learning which way it goes!

Be aware that you WILL feel knackered on the drive home, stop frequently, more than you would usually.

Without being cheeky, ask for a pax lap or two from other people there, great fun and really good to see how others drive and what other cars feel like. I will never forget the laps I had at Silverstone with Jez for example - that car is sooooo fast!

Lastly, get yourself a camera mount from somewhere like www.fastfilms.co.uk :Plug: to record the action and memories.

Cheers, Dave

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DeBastaard

Looks like a need a lot of work doing to my car before going to a circuit!!

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Why?
All I did to my 17 year old S13 was
1) Sort brakes/fluid/5stud conversion and S14 wheels.
2) Add FMIC
3) Go on a trackday :thumbs:

thanx for putting this up! will help me with my first drift day on monday! :D

Doing my first trackday in the 200SX tomorrow, at Oulton Park, really looking forward to it. :D

I've done several trackdays in the past, but they've all been in fwd cars, so this will be something new to me, but I've had the car about 5 months now so I'm kind of used to it now, although I will still be very cautious at first.

Will report back tomorrow... :thumbs:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rich_D

Doing my first trackday in the 200SX tomorrow, at Oulton Park, really looking forward to it. :D

I've done several trackdays in the past, but they've all been in fwd cars, so this will be something new to me, but I've had the car about 5 months now so I'm kind of used to it now, although I will still be very cautious at first.

Will report back tomorrow... :thumbs:

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You will love it, I've done Oulton 3 times this year and love it more every time :thumbs: if its with MSV they always do a :cool: day there :thumbs:

Cracking circuit :thumbs:

Keep the boost down, especially with the power you have in these cold air temps, that also reduce grip. Shouldnt be too hard for the car though, enjoy!.

Oulton was my second track day and it was utterly fantastic :notworthy . Daunting at first, but you get used to it very VERY quickly. Have fun :thumbs:

Don't forget to check your brake pads (especially your rears) afterwards ;)

PS. Don't crash :)

Don't forget Track Day Insurance if you are planning a day of it.

http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=167141

I'm still a little confused with the whole Helmet issue. I used to have a Motorcross style helmet which i found really comfy, are these style acceptable at track days or does it have to be the more traditional style?

Should be fine, I'd double check with the company you book with. Not seen a motorcross one used but plenty of motorbike ones and open faced ones are used.

I watched with interest while Tiff Needel (or whatever his name is) did an article on track days on fifth gear last night

1. start slow hes said, build speed slowly :thumbs:
2. put some extra air in your tyres :thumbs: (no mention of checking fluids etc :rolleyes: )
3. wear a helmet and think about some insurance :thumbs:

Then he encouraged you to start "throwing it in to corners to see what happens" - there follows a long segment of him hooning around hanging the arse out, understeering, oversteering, pulling the handbrake etc :rolleyes:

Please note if you did this at most places you'd be black flagged in and told to behave or go home :mad:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mono Phil

I watched with interest while Tiff Needel (or whatever his name is) did an article on track days on fifth gear last night

1. start slow hes said, build speed slowly :thumbs:
2. put some extra air in your tyres :thumbs: (no mention of checking fluids etc :rolleyes: )
3. wear a helmet and think about some insurance :thumbs:

Then he encouraged you to start "throwing it in to corners to see what happens" - there follows a long segment of him hooning around hanging the arse out, understeering, oversteering, pulling the handbrake etc :rolleyes:

Please note if you did this at most places you'd be black flagged in and told to behave or go home :mad:

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I was unlucky enough to catch that particular televisual shite aswell. Didnt mention anything about fluids, temperatures, tuition, or the general content of the safety briefings like "no fcuking around like that Tit Needell of the tv".

Idiot :annoyed:

I couldn't believe that either :mad: Bet the organisers were loving that :rolleyes: Use this guide instead :sxoc:

Super thread, god bless the search feature. In relation to keeping the boost down, standard boost will be okay correct?

Good posts.

Slow in, fast out.

May be worth running good fuel, i have now put mine on strict V-power diet.

Any suggestions on a good disk to go with the Ferodo's

I'm shocked one of the most important upgrades is overlooked, good seats and harness. Especially on the S13. Not only will good seats keep you planted so you canconcentrate on driving (instead of gripping the handbrake/door) but they provide the safety of 4-point harnesses. The harnesses have a great tribute to safety not only because there are 4 belts, but the hanress keeps you in your seat when the car rolls and lands on it's roof. Just turn the camlock and u'r out where with a regualar belt you'll have the belt tensioned and u'll need to push yourself down to release, which can be difficult in case of an injury...not to imagine in a panic situation where the car is on fire.

want to do a trackday sooo bad must spend some cash on my brakes instead of just keep making it go faster. 300ish bhp on completely standard brakes. will get it sorted this year!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mitsi_matt

want to do a trackday sooo bad must spend some cash on my brakes instead of just keep making it go faster. 300ish bhp on completely standard brakes. will get it sorted this year!

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Same here:sxoc:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mitsi_matt

want to do a trackday sooo bad must spend some cash on my brakes instead of just keep making it go faster. 300ish bhp on completely standard brakes. will get it sorted this year!

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Why? Do you want more stopping power of are you expiriencings heavy brake fade?

More stopping power is ONLY achievable by fitting more grip tyres, not by upgrading the brakes. Tires are what stop the car, not the brakes. Think about it, it's not difficult to lock the wheels on stock brakes, isn't it? The only way big-brakes will aid stopping power is because pressure buildup is faster. This gives you a very, very little advantage compared to better tires.

The main gain from big brakes is less fade. Bigger rotors can absorb more heat and have more area that catches cooling wind.

The cheap and very effective way to reduce fade, is by fitting high-temperature resistant brakepads and brake fluid.

I'm driving mountain passes every weekend in Germany, on stock brakes, on stock pads at around 200HP with little if no fade at all.

so are you saying having a disc of a greater diameter will not give a greater leverage and therefore stronger braking force?

Fade is caused by heat build up, if you have better pads they are resistant to fade and can cope with higher temperatures, better fluid will be more stable at higher temperatures and bigger disks will have more material to act as a heat sink.

might want to read up on your physics again.

I'm not saying they don't :confused:, I'm only saying the only benefit they give is more resistance to fade. Why would you need more braking force if your tires can't handle what you have already?! So more braking force isn't a benefit that way.

Look at it this way, why would you want 300HP if your 160/60/15 tires can't even handle 150HP?

I can see from his signature pic he's not running standard wheels straight away. and where did you get 160/60/15 from? I saw no reference to having trouble with grip, i saw a reference to brakes. standard s13 brakes are shockingly bad for fade, they will only ever last 2 heavy uses from high speed before they are seriously compromised in my experience. the braking effort is just about good enough but not for long enough

160 was to illustrate the example, if u have very narrow tires with less rubber (in total, not on road) u can't handle 200HP, spending money to make 300HP would be useless.... (in a drag race perspective to illustrate example).

I'm actually quite pleased with the 280mm discs on the facelifts, I drive around mountain passes in the Eiffel and havn't noticed ANY fade at all actually...

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Originally Posted by Vova

160 was to illustrate the example, if u have very narrow tires with less rubber (in total, not on road) u can't handle 200HP, spending money to make 300HP would be useless.... (in a drag race perspective to illustrate example).

I'm actually quite pleased with the 280mm discs on the facelifts, I drive around mountain passes in the Eiffel and havn't noticed ANY fade at all actually...

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you obviously dont drive hard then because on track after about 15mins hard use (not non stop :rolleyes:) they are fcuked big time.

this is coming from someone with track experience:nod:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vova

160 was to illustrate the example, if u have very narrow tires with less rubber (in total, not on road) u can't handle 200HP, spending money to make 300HP would be useless.... (in a drag race perspective to illustrate example).

I'm actually quite pleased with the 280mm discs on the facelifts, I drive around mountain passes in the Eiffel and havn't noticed ANY fade at all actually...

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You must tell us how you brake then as standard pads die after 2 high speed stops for most people :thumbs: and even uprated pads and discs die very quickly on track when driven hard. We arent just talking about one brake application either, people want brakes that work and continue to work :nod:

I drive my S14 back to back with my wifes S14a and have to moderate my braking a huge amount in her car. She just has uprated pads (DS2500's) and they start to lose the ability to brake moderately quickly on some of my favourite roads. I have have uprated discs (bigger) and pads, front and back, I never have to moderate my braking on the road, they just carry on working effectively. When I had standard pads on the wifes car, the difference between hers and mine was vast, speeds had to be lower, braking points earlier and still they faded with a few fast stops. :nod: :)

I'll make a video soon :) .

Sounds a silly question but I want to make sure I am prepared :nod:

So far thought of:

ME:
Drivers Licence
Helmet
Long sleeved jumper
Food and Drink

CAR:
Spare brake fluid
Spare brake pads
Some tools - which?

What else?

Currently on semi slick yoko tyres - should I take a spare set of road tyres on rims?

Obviously I want to be prepared but I obviously dont want to be lugging round lots of stuff in the car on the track :wack:


Cu

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr OCD

Sounds a silly question but I want to make sure I am prepared :nod:

So far thought of:

ME:
Drivers Licence
Helmet
Long sleeved jumper
Food and Drink

CAR:
Spare brake fluid
Spare brake pads
Some tools - which?

What else?

Currently on semi slick yoko tyres - should I take a spare set of road tyres on rims?

Obviously I want to be prepared but I obviously dont want to be lugging round lots of stuff in the car on the track :wack:


Cu

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spare set of rims is a must :nod: tools wise you want a good selection so that most jobs you can possibly think of can be done - we usually take a halfords briefcase kit and then a few big manly tools on top of that.

fuel in jerrycans

any spare jubilee clips and cable ties you have.

thats about all i can think of

I would get a long sleeve T-shirt rather than jumper... If the sun comes out it's gonna get might hot in your car :nod:

Spare brake fluid? Are you planning to loose some :confused: If you boil it, ideally you need to bleed the whole lot out, so a quick 'top up' isn't going to cut it IMO. Your brake setup should be fine though, stop being :ghey:

You:
License (inc paper)
Wallet (for more petrol)
Helmet

Car:
Petrol

:ghey:

That's all you need. You have new pads and discs on your car... I doubt you'll be going through a whole set of pads in a day! :no:

Christ, please tell me this is your second track day and you're not silly fannying about for your first one (like you've been doing for a month + already) :D

Rich

:D PMSL

Nice one guys...

What do you do with all the stuff you have to take with you? - surely you dont leave it in the car?

I obviously dont want it going missing... lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr OCD

:D PMSL

Nice one guys...

What do you do with all the stuff you have to take with you? - surely you dont leave it in the car?

I obviously dont want it going missing... lol

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you leave it in a pile near where your car will be when you arent on track:nod:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrtuning_ben

you leave it in a pile near where your car will be when you arent on track:nod:

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Does it not go walkies? :wack:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr OCD

Does it not go walkies? :wack:

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not in my experience but then there are usually a few cars when we go and lots of spectators to keep an eye on stuff

i noticed a big difference i the length my brakes could last when i removed my arch/bumper liners to allow more air through. worth a thought if your struggling on the day. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr OCD

Currently on semi slick yoko tyres - should I take a spare set of road tyres on rims?

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I'm of the mind that says you should walk before you run, driving on a track is way different to a road, why not learn what the car can do on road tyres before putting the slicks on. Most people there will have road tyres. You'd be best to learn how to drive on road tyres then the slicks IMO, its harder to drive fast on the road tyres as they don't have so much grip, they make things like straight line braking, slow in fast out, weight transfer and good lines more important and therefore you'll learn faster. Leave the slicks at home for a few times out. Also if you come off you'll be going slower :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr OCD

:D PMSL

Nice one guys...

What do you do with all the stuff you have to take with you? - surely you dont leave it in the car?

I obviously dont want it going missing... lol

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Take EVERYTHING out of the car

nothing ever goes missing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by archenemy.co.uk

I'm of the mind that says you should walk before you run, driving on a track is way different to a road, why not learn what the car can do on road tyres before putting the slicks on. Most people there will have road tyres. You'd be best to learn how to drive on road tyres then the slicks IMO, its harder to drive fast on the road tyres as they don't have so much grip, they make things like straight line braking, slow in fast out, weight transfer and good lines more important and therefore you'll learn faster. Leave the slicks at home for a few times out. Also if you come off you'll be going slower :D



Take EVERYTHING out of the car

nothing ever goes missing

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To be fair this isnt the first time I have been on track... I have done a few driving experience days but this is the first time in my own car. I know there is no comparison between the two but even so I consider myself a pretty good fast road driver. At least thats what people tell me... I use the semi slicks on the road anyway so technically they are my road tyres :wack:

But I do have a set of Z32 wheels with Falken FK451's on them to use if needed...

I will take everything I can think of then and take it out of the car :thumbs:

just wondering, how many of the SX guys have baffled sumps? is it worth it idf you only do 5 or so a year? or is it worthing just making sure the oil is topped up and even a little over the maximum?

Nice thread...informative...I always fascinate car racing but never have the chance to try. This is maybe because i needed a braking system and exhaust system upgrade. I badly needed nissan brake shoe and drum, the linings begin to deteriorate after many miles of vigorous use.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dr Bob

never put the handbrake on after coming in from a track session.

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Quick question: does this apply for cars that have had upgraded rear brakes installed that use the drum brakes for the handbrake as opposed to the standard 200SX brake setups that use the disc for both rear brakes & handbrake?
e.g. R33 GTST or R34GTR rear brake assemblies.

Also, I've made up a bit of a "to-do" list of things from reading this thread that can apply to most people which you can feel free to edit accordingly:

****List of Equipment for a Trackday****

The weekend before:

1) Change wheels/tyres if necessary
2) New brake fluid (Dot 5.1)
3) Race pads (Ferrodo DS2500's)
4) Bed new pads in as instructed on the box
5) Buy spare gerry-cans (for full day: 2 at least for running petrol, 3 for E85)
6) Prepare trailer & test the car can be hoisted onto it. Test drive.
7) Buy helmet & gloves & thin-soled race-shoes (not runners/shoes)
8) Buy high-carb energy foods for the day
9) Line somebody up to go with you that can drive your car home if necessary
10) Buy a camera & mount if you want to record things
11) Buy a harness (if necessary)
12) Find license


Before you leave the house in the morning or the night before:

1) Run less boost (adjust actuator/boost-controller accordingly)
2) Fill up the gerry-cans & put INTO car!
3) Put helmet & clothes you'll use on-track INTO car! (Long sleeved T-shirt)
4) Bring 2L bottle of water minimum
5) Set up camera & mount
6) Set up harness
7) Put license into the car
8) Remove bumper/arch-liners if it's a hot day
9) Bring money/paperwork necessary for entry to & use during the day
10) Top up oil to max & put any spare into the car
11) Check coolant levels (from cold obviously! :wack:)


On your way there:

1) Check tyre pressures & add a few PSI than normal for even tyre-wear
2) Fill up the tank to it's max


Just before heading on-track:

1) Make sure the car is warmed up
2) Fasten harness
3) Rid your car of excess weight
4) Switch on the camera!!! :D


Before heading home:

1) Change pads back to road pads
2) Change wheels back to road wheels/tyres


On your way home:

1) Check tyre pressures, adjust for the road accordingly
2) Refuel at nearest opportunity

You don't do things by half there jp :wack:

If you're running DS2500's then it's not necessary to change back to road pads as they ARE road pads :wack: I've driven home on DS3000's without any problems (bar the squealing) and run DS2500's all the time front and back.

You change the brake fluid for every track day? :wack:

You really remove you archliners and bumper in hot weather? :wack: I doubt that makes any difference as the bumper tunnels the air into the IC/Rad anyway and the holes in the bottom corners of the (standard) bumper channel air towards the brakes.

Anyway, each to their own I guess :D

For the drum handbrake question, I'd still try not to as the whole hub/drum will be fooking hot. As they're std. handbrake pads they might not get on so well being swuashed into hot metal? :confused:

My tip for doing track days:

1) Make sure your car is safe, check tyres and brakes have enough on them to last AND get you home (if not bring spares).

2) Run what boost you want, but the higher the boost the more chance of your engine going pop. Generally 0.8bar > 1bar is safe on a stage 1/2 car with a FMIC. 0.8bar without one is safer.

3) Fill your car with fuel, there's usually a petrol station selling SUL around the corner of the track (and you'll want to give you are a breather anyway)

4) Have fun.

:D Never been one for rules..

Rich

1. Get up
2. Go to track
3. Enjoy
4. Go home

:D

Just me then..... ;)

How about checking oil, coolant, clutch fluid ;) .

I can never understand all this adding a few more psi to the tyres??:confused: with the race cars I help with we only do this if it rains because the tyres dont get to the right temp so the tyre pressure doesnt go up enough and if its a dry day we let some out so that when the pressure increases the tyre still has full contact with the track.
The more pressure you put in the less contact you will have on the track once the tyres are warm.:nod:
I run my mx5 at 26psi on track on a hot day and when I come in they are 32psi sometimes higher, on the road I run at 29psi so if I left it at that for the track I would be running at around 35psi:eek: maybe more!

You add the pressure IF your wearing the shoulders of the tyre, this isnt as bad on stiffer or lighter cars, but on cars that roll it is.

It depends though, tire pressure is related to the load on the tire, i.e. car & drivers combined weight. Best way to find right tire pressure is using a heat probe (no IR thing, a real probe) and doing runs, trial and error procedure.

It's better though to (marginally) overinflate then underinflate because the air keeps the sidewall stiff but as before, only by 3/4 PSI.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Richy_Boy

You don't do things by half there jp :wack:

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Lol! Nope! Sure look at the spec of my car! :D Oh yeah, I designed the guide for if you use your car as a daily too as I do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Richy_Boy

You change the brake fluid for every track day? :wack:

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I based that on Jez's post about not going on-track with old brake fluid:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jez

Don't go out with old brake fluid - I've seen at least 1 car in the armco cos the fluid boiled and the driver ended up with no brakes at all - much worse than fade.

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Does this still apply if you're using Dot 5.1 I wonder & how regular are you supposed to do brake-fluid changes anyway?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Richy_Boy

You really remove you archliners and bumper in hot weather? :wack: I doubt that makes any difference as the bumper tunnels the air into the IC/Rad anyway and the holes in the bottom corners of the (standard) bumper channel air towards the brakes.

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Fair enough I suppose! :) Oh, don't forget if you use it as a daily doing this may save you going home with your bumper hanging off if you have an accident on-track! :smash:

I am thinking of doing my 1st track day soon and will use JP's guide as a checklist.

:)

Would you believe I've applied this:

9) Line somebody up to go with you that can drive your car home if necessary

successfully at least once since I made that list in 2007 but more importantly I should really add in something about "make sure you've got a way home for your car if for some reason it won't make it onto a trailer under its own power"?! :wack:

Just thought I'd add my 2p.

Did an open pit day at Snetterton on the 23rd September with club MSV. I took my S14 and my mate was in his R35 GTR (modified gtr that is ;)).

Was an absolutely amazing day, the sun shone all day and the track was perfectly smooth and grippy.

With this being the first track day I have ever done and the first time my car's really been tested I took it a little easy. Having said that I learnt loads and was trying to push myself just not beyond my limits.

The car was great, once I'd learnt to heel toe (I'm by no means a master at this by the way) the car felt a lot smoother coming into the corners and with the T1R's up front and the K110 Hankooks out back it gripped considerably well.

Once I'd got used to the track layout and was more confident with my brakes (performance friction make the best brakes ever) I was picking up pace and doing ok. I've realised that smothness is key and although I was breaking a little early and my entry speed was a little slow I positioned the car well, carried good speed through the corner and managed to get good drive coming out. A very experienced driver in a 350Z was quite sideways trying to stay with me and we had a good chat afterwards as he was a friend of a friend.

So while I was impressed with myself and the 200 and a few people had also patted me on the back my friend James in his GTR was just amazing. The car is a missile (should be with 675bhp) and James is an excellent driver. There wasn't much on track that could get close to him apart from the lairy track focused Porsche thing. He took loads of people out in it and everyone was thoroughly amazed.

Next thing I'm going to do is fit stiffer springs and fit some sort of flat tray/splitter to my rather flimsy frp bumper. I'll put up some pics when I've sorted them out.

Never seen this thread before and glad i did, some great advice here cheers!

Just finished reading the whole thread and have a question as the subject/s have been mentioned numerous times.

1 Increase tyre pressures! By how much?
2 Decrease boost! Currently running 1.2bar full stg3 ca18det s13 so what should i lower it to?

I'd never increase tyre pressures??? They go up once the tyres are hot so I drop them to around 26psi

I always do a few laps with the pressures as they are at (obviously check them before to make sure they are OK) then come back in and adjust appropriately as like Drifter said they are always higher and require dropping down a few psi.

Just don't forget to put some air back in before you go home though.

^^ Yep.

10 laps on a summer's day can send your tyre pressure up (depending on your driving style) a hell of lot. It's one of the few adjustables you have on a track day so it's worth following the advice above.

I will go by that advice then!

Why has it been said many times on this thread to inflate them more to give more even tyre wear?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pointz

I will go by that advice then!

Why has it been said many times on this thread to inflate them more to give more even tyre wear?

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I have no idea. Having said that, you don't want them underinflated. Every track tyre should have an ideal operating range. It would be wise to try and stick within that. Too hard or too soft and you might find you're struggling for grip. The heat generated on circuit means you will find your pressures increase, you should then adjust accordingly. You generally find one or two tyres with more pressure and it's usually the LHS. This is because most circuits in the UK run clockwise. Pack a tyre gauge and a pump and check when you pit each time. Then reinflate as you leave for the drive home.