More fuel

[Stevecarter200]

OK lads and lasses, get your thinking caps on. Ive got an SE uprated fuel pump and stage 2 chip but Pete at SE has told me that my injectors are probably running flat out which is causing a spot of pinking. http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/frown.gif
So, the question is, how to get more fuel? 5th injector, uprated injectors, adjustable pressure regulator???
Which is best? Where from? How much? Etc, Etc.
Pete reckoned he could supply some uprated injectors and re-map my chip to suit for about £700. What with me being tighter than a gnats chuff this seems a bit pricey.

Any ideas people?


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Steve

Blue '89 S13, T28,
HKS IC, Mongoose,
Pipercross. 280ish bhp

[Jez]

You could use a 5th injector and a fuel injection computer from www.aquamist.co.uk (http://www.aquamist.co.uk)

Use a second hand injector and it'll cost about £5, maybe less. The computer is about £200 + £50 for a MAP sensor and then you'd have to get it mapped on a rolling road.

Quite cheap really...

[This message has been edited by Jez (edited 14-06-2001).]

[Actual_Ben_Taylor]

Steve,

First off why not try sending your injectors off to be properly cleaned? They must be ten odd tears old.....

I've read about this in a couple of mags, its not very expensive and, from what I've read has sorted quite a few fueling priblems.

could be a cheap solution....

Ben

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http://forums.evilnet.net/ubb/smilies/pc1.gif
Black '98 S14

[Stuymac]

Steve,

Im running a 5th Injector, and an adjustable fuel pressure regulator.

The Injector cost £2 for the injector (Volvos have a 5th injector std for cold start), and I used an MF2 controller which was £200.

The pressure regulator was just under £40 I think, just get a universal one and plumb it in your self - then go to the rollers and get it all set up, something I REALLY need to find time for http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/rolleyes.gif


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Stu

DIY T3, FMIC, but need more power!!

[Stevecarter200]

More questions....

5th injector- what size/ flow rate is needed? Where does it go? In the plenum or in the intake pipe before the throttle flap? What cars can supply the required injector?

Injector Controller- How is it wired/plumbed in? Is it rev or pressure (or both) controlled? When is best to have the injector, just before the pinking starts?

Pressure Regulator-How does it work and will it matter that Ive got an uprated pump?

Also Ive noticed that ND does an uprated injector kit using 440cc injectors,the same flow as S14 jobbies. Are they the same and if so do S14 injectors fit straight into an S13?

How many questions can I ask?
What is the meaning of life?
Why am I here?
How long is a piece of string?
http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/smile.gif http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif

Sorry to go on.

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Steve
Blue '89 S13, T28,
HKS IC, Mongoose,
Pipercross. 280ish bhp


[This message has been edited by SteveCarter100 (edited 14-06-2001).]

[Kenny_s13]

the last four are easy
1) As many as you like
2) 42
3) God knows!
4) As long as you need it to be.

http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif

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1990 S13 std.green/grey 2 tone
15" Smiths Twisters

[Chimp]

Agree on the first 3

4) Twice the distance from the middle to one end.

http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Dan
Red S13
Actuator/chip/filter
http://animatedgif.net/animals/otheranimals/ape_e0.gif

[Stuymac]

Right, Ive got a horrible feeling this is gonna be a long reply as I confuse myself and repeat myself etc http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/rolleyes.gif

The 5th Injector sits in the inlet manafold, just after the throttle butterfly (I can mail you a piccy of mine if you want) not sure about the flow rate, but mine came off a volvo, and seens to stop the pinking fine. It works on a combination of rpm and inlet manafold pressure. Both these variables can be adjusted to suit your car, for example the one I have kicks in when the engine is running =>4500rpm and the inlet pressure is >=15psi, therefor when driving slowly you never need use it.

The Pressure sensor and injector need drilling in, try and place it as near to the front of the car as possible, as if you place it towards the back the direction of the air flow will mean you will only get the extra fuel to the cylinders after the injector, so the further forward it is you should get the supply to all 4 evenly.

Not to sure about the wiring though, but there are good instructions with the kit.

The adjustable regulator works off pressure, basically they are the same as the std ones, but have a bigger diaphram and can allow more fuel to pass. There is a pressure hose which as pressure increases opens the diaphram, therefore the more pressure/boost, the more fuel you get.

Phew, rant over, hope it is of some help. Also, let me know if you want to see the piccy.

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Stu

DIY T3, FMIC, but need more power!!

[Chimp]

I thought standard injectors are good for 320bhp according to Norris. Id go for getting them cleaned eitherway, regardless of whether you get a 5th injector or not, if they are running that lean then the spray coverage might be rubbish. (you dont think its related to that fuel pump they sold you do yer?) <-- I hope not.

A 5th Injector sounds top fun, if for nothing else its a decent flamethrower http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/smile.gif If the threshold for power is 280ish anyway before you need a bigger AFM and Unichip, I would have thought having the standard injectors cleaned would do the trick. Its also a bit dissapointing that SE offer to take £750 off you for something that you might not even need.

[Funb0b]

Steve at what level of boost does she start to pink, I notice pinking after 1.1bar but before this she is ok.

Question: Is there any probs with sticking in the 440cc units from an s14 as an alternative to 5th injector route.

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Barry S13

T28,FMIC,LSD,RL/TC/LC/FTS,Wilwood 4pots,Nismo/QS,Blitz Nur Spec R,Blitz Dual,Apexi SuperAVR-R.



[This message has been edited by caleini_350 (edited 16-06-2001).]

[Stevecarter200]

Barry, mine starts pinking at about the same, roughly 14/15 psi. Pete a SE reckons that this is OK but I'm not so sure, after all, any pinking is bad isnt it.
Now, I'd been led to believe that getting replacement injectors was a problem, due to an unusual fitting but I bumped into Davy, who used to work at SE, last night down the pub. I was pretty well pished but I do remember him saying that Cosworth (Bosch?) injectors are a straight fit. Gives a fair bit of choice I think.
I think Ive chosen my route- clean injectors and see what happens. If no improvement try a pressure regulator and then a 5th injector if needed. Itd be nice to uprate all four injectors but the cost of setting up the ecu to suit is a bit pricy. Squeek squeek.

What do you think guys, is that a good plan?



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Steve

Blue '89 S13, T28,
HKS IC, Mongoose,
Pipercross. 280ish bhp

[Nathan_200sx]

Im getting worried now, If I cant get rid of the pinking when I've had my bottom end rebuilt by simply altering the timing, Im gonna be well pissed off that I have to spend more money and have the car off the road again.
Finger crossed

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Nathan
Red S13 Mongoose, K&N T3 280ish BHP http://mysmilies.com/smilies/cwm30.gif
Empty bank account

[Funb0b]

Totally Steve pinking any pinking is bad news i think getting them cleaned is a dam good idea and I would go for the pressure regulator & 5th injector straight away then go to a proper rollin road for a setup & power run guys at dp motorsports use stephascopes(FING's what doctors use) to detect the smallest pinking and eradicate it.

PINKING IS THE ENEMY AND SHOULD BE SHOT ON SITE DAMIT!

Barry

[This message has been edited by caleini_350 (edited 06-07-2001).]

[Chimp]

oiiiiiiiiiiiii

PINKING!!!!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

[Paul_S13]

Power Engineering used a stethascope on my car to check for pinking, they recommend a fifth injector if your under fueling but it ain't cheap, but it only kicks in when you need it, raising the fuel pressure will work but your fuel economy suffers (and lets face it its pretty bad already http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/frown.gif ) I would go for the bigger injectors, they cost £279 from Norris Designs they are 440cc type but they also mention the UNICHIP ECU module as well £550. I recommend ND, I've only used SE once but that was enough http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/mad.gif

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Black S13
235Bhp @ 5600rpm
Saab intercooler
Big ass HKS 'zorst
http://www.contrabandent.com/pez/otn/puke/repuke.gif


[This message has been edited by paul_s13 (edited 02-07-2001).]

[SteveSadler]

Do all standard Cossies (3dr and Saph) use the same Bosch injectors. If so, I may buy some and put them down.

Any of u guys using a APEX fuel controller. You should be able to sort out any running probs using this I thought?

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Bayside Blue S13.
Janspeed&D-Cat Pipe/Pace FMIC/BMC F1 Filter/Standard T25 @ 15psi
15.4 @ 98mph - North Wield Air Strip
Flywheel Figure 213bhp/209Ib ft @ 5375RPM
Power at the Wheels 166bhp
(as of 15/6/01 @ Power & Engineering)

[Chimp]

damn good question. Blues are standard arnt they?

most uprated cossies run at least greens, and the loonies are on greys. I bet theres loads of standard ones about.

dont know the answer though http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/frown.gif

[PH]

If you can find out what physically fits the holes, Autospeed has on its website (do a search) a list of virtually every OEM injector and their flow rates. The fifth injector route seems a bit crude (without a properly set up micro-fueler etc you'd probably end up running very rich), but I'm sure it's still effective. I've only had injectors ultrasonically cleaned on one vehicle, which was admittedly 28 years old at the time, but it made a big difference in the general running of the engine and wasn't prohibitively expensive. I'm sure it doesn't take much dirt to ruin the spray pattern of an injector.

[Quest]

"Any of u guys using a APEX fuel controller. You should be able to sort out any running probs using this I thought?"

SteveSadler,
thats exactly the same question I asked a while back when I first found the site. I was quite surprised to see you guys not using them... but chips instead. dpmotorsports have them on their website.
Someone kindly pointed out that not many are at that level of tuning - I understand.
Now that some are approaching that limit, you'll find that they do a great job of tailoring your fuel curve, far better than any "chip". My friend uses it in a mitsubishi turbo 2.0 eclipse that weighs 3200 lbs, but runs mid 11sec quarter mile. This is a daily driven car with ac, etc.. and it does not run rich at all, good mileage actually. You can even purchase the "older" apex AFC (like he uses) cheap since guys are upgrading to the newer type.

How I tune a turbo car with oe injectors, is to use a bosch boost compensating ADJUSTABLE fuel pressure regulator... http://www.msdignition.com/fuel_8.htm
Costs $70us and only kicks up the pressure under boost, where you need it. Mounts down stream of the oe fpr.
I use www.westach.com (http://www.westach.com) high quality (they're mostly aircraft supplier) 2" gauges: air fuel, fuel pressure or exhaust gas temp.. same price as autometer.
This method squeezes quite a bit more out of stock injectors

Go to the bigger injector with the apex AFC after you've maxed out. I'm going this route, but need to find out which "bigger" air flow meter to use. Do any of you guys know ? This meter will lean things out, the bigger injectors will richen your fuel curve, and the apex fuel controller will fine tune it "spot on". I've seen this done successfully on many fast street cars, but over here in the western world, not many ca18det examples to choose from - why I ask questions.

I do know of a guy not far from me with a ca18det that puts out 440 hp AT THE WHEELS! he's using a standalone management tho'. I'd like to retain the nissan stuff as it has never let me down. His car tells me that a ca breathes well and can live at that output level - thats good to know.

5th injector set ups work ok, but other than a fussy install, you're susceptible to distribution problems.. and with the emergence of comparatively priced piggyback fuel controllers, it's no surprise you hardly see anyone using them nowadays... as least, not around here.

later

[Funb0b]

Quest

Thanks for the info.

Barry




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Barry S13 89

T28,FMIC,LSD,RLATC/LC/FTS,Wilwood 4 pots,Nismo Quick Shift,Blitz Nur Spec R,Blitz Dual TT,Apexi SuperAVR-R.

Coming Soon: JE low compression forged pistons,L/B polihed conrods, knife edged crank, L/W crank pulley, 550cc injectors, P&P head, Cams & Cam gear's, custom map & fingers crossed.