dreaded fuel cut out

[cashflewn]

hi guys
just fitted my t28 hybrid(feeling very pleased with myself)when the boost gets to 13 psi the fuel cut off goes does anyone know how to get around it.this is deeply frustrating as iknow theres more power there but the stupid ecu wont let me have it

[Spooky]

You need to get a chip with a Fuel Cut Defencer and that'll allow you to run more than 15 PSI of boost. Contact Norris Designs as they are the best people to advise you. I believe they have just a FCD chip, or another chip which changes the fuelling as well.

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Peter
Black 1992 200SX S13
Standard except for Blizt FATT type S turbo timer
175.5 BHP @ 6169 RPM
183.8 LBFT @ 4203 RPM

[Chimp]

Ill swap you my chip for your turbo http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/wink.gif

hehe, its an easy job and theres a few available, HKS do a FCD for 90 quid, or the ND chip is about 150 quid i think. If you aint afraid to use a soldering iron its a doddle to do yourself aswell.

[SteveSadler]

SE-Nissan.com

provide a chip for the T28 S14. Give em a call and as for Pete Rosenburg

was your T28 off a S14 or GTiR?

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Bayside Blue S13.
Janspeed&D-Cat Pipe/Pace FMIC/BMC F1 Filter/Standard T25 @ 15psi
15.4 @ 98mph - North Wield Air Strip
Flywheel Figure 213bhp/209Ib ft @ 5375RPM
Power at the Wheels 166bhp
(as of 15/6/01 @ Power & Engineering)

[cashflewn]

thanks guys
where does the chip go,i take it it replaces one of the big ones in the ecu.have you put your own in chimp?i thought these chips were soldered both sides of the board wich is a bit fiddly for me ill end up melting the whole board and my hands.
the turbo is a new one my old one died and i asked for a t28 with a 360 thrust,it fitted straight on apart from having to make an inlet flange

[Chimp]

Aye they are soldered in pretty tight. I tried loads of telly, Pc shops to swap mine until I gave up and got the soldering iron out. I couldnt do it as the sweat was pumping out of me, but my mate waves a soldering iron around for a living. Not that hard, just need a bit of patience (and a solder sucker) took about 20 mins to do. Even surface mounted the new one coz i broke the chip carrier i was gonna use http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/smile.gif DOH!

[Funb0b]

Originally posted by cashflewn:
hi guys
just fitted my t28 hybrid(feeling very pleased with myself)when the boost gets to 13 psi the fuel cut off goes does anyone know how to get around it.this is deeply frustrating as iknow theres more power there but the stupid ecu wont let me have it

Cash

I would go to SE and get them to fit the phase 2 chip which was written specifically with a T28 setup.

You wont be able to run any more than 1.1bar aprrox 16psi without detting as your injectors will be at there mechanical limit.



------------------
Barry S13 89

T28,FMIC,LSD,RLATC/LC/FTS,Wilwood 4 pots,Nismo Quick Shift,Blitz Nur Spec R,Blitz Dual TT,Apexi SuperAVR-R.

Coming Soon: JE low compression forged pistons & ring's,L/B polished conrods, knife edged crank, L/W crank pulley, 550cc injectors, P&P head, Inlet Cam & Cam gear's, custom map & fingers crossed.

[Christian]

I hope you all are aware of the fact, that the fuel cutout has a very important reason.

It happens when the airflowmeter reaches the maximum readout - therefor it can't measure if any more air going into the engine.

The result is the ECU doesn't know how much air is in the system and can't calculate the needed amount of fuel - therefor it cuts the ignition to save the engine from severe damage (too lean mixture).

If you only disable the fuel cut you'll be fine for a few extra HP.
But don't expect the engine to work (and last) if you further wind up the boost.

I never understood how Simon Norris can say the standard S13 AFM is capable of 270HP
I have 200HP and have measured the AFM-signal with a multimeter. It showed 5 Volts peak value which is the maximum AFM-readout, so????


Christian

[Funb0b]

Christian.

I'm no technician, but I think this is what happens

you are right, but these chips(ie se phase 2) not only remove the cut but also revise the higher rpm map peaking the afm earlier with revised timing.

There is a 5 volt peak, but at peak there is enough fuel for more approx 270/280bhp, but it is a fine line and should be setup on the rr.

A few of us are running 280's without meltdown YET.

To do it proper, do what you freind has done use bigger injectors with a custom map ie dastek or similar and larger afm body, I would think that at 5 volt on the afm with 444/550cc job's would have much more fuel available then its all down to setup on the rr.

Anyone else have any ideas

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Barry S13 89

T28,SE Phase 2 Chip,FMIC,LSD,RLATC/LC/FTS,Wilwood 4 pots,Nismo Quick Shift,Blitz Nur Spec R,Blitz Dual TT,Apexi SuperAVR-R.

In progress now: JE low compression forged pistons & ring's,L/B polished conrods, knife edged crank, L/W crank pulley, 550cc injectors, P&P head, Inlet Cam & Cam gear's, custom map & fingers crossed.

[Christian]

Originally posted by caleini_350:
Christian.

I'm no technician, but I think this is what happens

you are right, but these chips(ie se phase 2) not only remove the cut but also revise the higher rpm map peaking the afm earlier with revised timing.

There is a 5 volt peak, but at peak there is enough fuel for more approx 270/280bhp, but it is a fine line and should be setup on the rr.

A few of us are running 280's without meltdown YET.

To do it proper, do what you freind has done use bigger injectors with a custom map ie dastek or similar and larger afm body, I would think that at 5 volt on the afm with 444/550cc job's would have much more fuel available then its all down to setup on the rr.

Anyone else have any ideas




Hi

What I meant was disengaging fuelcut WITHOUT any other modifications (which can be done homemade no problems)

And I'm definitely sure the AFM is NOT capable of measuring the amount of air needed for 280HP correctly. Otherwise it wouldn't readout 5 Volts on my car with 200HP. Making power isn't only adding fuel, but more adding the correct amount of fuel for the air actually coming into the engine.

Granted, that some of you are running 280HP with the standard AFM.
I guess the Chip simply disables fuel cutoff and enrichens the mixture that much up high, that you don't get problems leaning out.

Christian

PS:
I know Thomas is or was going the right way concerning high power applications.
But as I said in my very first post...
I want to make as much out of my car with as little effort as possible - and I'm NOT gonna spend even halve the money than he did

[Quest]

Whassup,
Interesting topic.
I want to set up my first ca combination to take advantage of the stock injectors.... so I'll fit a turbo that'll flow the cfm, while using an adjustable boost compensating fuel pressure regulator to "dial in" air fuel ratio with an exhaust gas temperature and fuel pressure gauge

With all these "electronic pirates" around, I could find someone to handle the soldering bit.

Question:
Where can I find this "homemade" procedure on removing the fuel cut - need details ?


For the next phase, I'll go with the bigger injectors + AFM, but I will use the Apex AFC adjustable fuel controller...

Question:
What is "dastek or similar and larger afm body" ?... looking for options here

thanks

[Christian]

Hi!

The homemade procedure (as I did it 2 years ago)..
Solder out the EPROM, try to readout the data, realize you fu**ed up the chip whilst desoldering (and don't have a clue why, cause you payed THAT much attention doing it), be stuck with a dead car for 3 weeks until a nice australian guy mails you the SW for your car, get a suitable EPROM and write the SW you got into it at work.
Realize, that the SW he sent you was the japanese one as the car starts to jump like a wild stallion when warmed up. Tow the car home, mail him again and get the correct SW on second try, same procedure about the ROM like above.
http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif
Now you've got a car running again and can fiddle with the SW - removing the fuelcut means putting some FFs at 3690-369F into the map instead of the values stated there.
That's my story.


Larger AFM body means the hole in the AFM - where all air has to pass through and which is pitifully small on the CA engine - well, it's larger.
It is possible to install eg. a Z32 AFM which would enable you to measure double the air going into the engine than before. But you have to have the chip remapped, cause the output is different to the CA one.

Thomas installed a completely new engine management system from Simon Norris. It uses a MAP sensor instead of the AFM. He gained 10HP only from removing the AFM!!!!

Christian

[This message has been edited by Christian (edited 15-07-2001).]

[Quest]

Hey Christian,
Now that's details! I guess you won't be trying that stunt again. Because of my options, I'm searching this route.
Many on this forum have the "luxury" of tuners that can chip / reprogramme ecu AND wheel dyno tune their setup - pretty neat package. I don't.

jim wolf tech in the us does modify ecu for bigger injectors and use of cheaper Ford electronics / big AFM - it works, but you're stuck with one fuel map, many folks having to go back and forth to "get it right". It's the same cost as a standalone. Definitely not worth it to me!

Besides, the Nissan oe system has been absolutely trouble free and I've seen excellent results from it simply using a z32 bigger AFM (runs lean), bigger injectors (runs rich) and an apex AFC (makes it run PERFECT)! ...but this was on us model s14 with a cutom turbo, which was originally normally aspirated with no "cut".

.. I'll check the aussie guys too, seeing as they're pretty crafty and a few of them have done it with their ca. I'm sending for some parts also, so.... I'll endure this since I'll never buy an HKS product.

thomas gain of only 10hp.... hmmmm Is he running a T28 ? I'm sure gains will be more sustantial in the higher hp range, where the ca afm really "bottlenecks".
440cc injectors don't seem like much of an increase over stock 370cc.


I visited your webpage. What plans you got for mods ?

[andyf]

Christian wrote:
<blockquote>He gained 10HP only from removing the AFM</blockquote>

Quest wrote:
<blockquote>thomas gain of only 10hp.... hmmmm Is he running a T28 ? I'm sure gains will be more sustantial in the higher hp range</blockquote>

I think he meant that he got 10 more horses just from having it taken off, not that he only got 10bhp and no more!


------------------
Graphite Grey S13
HKS Eggs Horsed / KYB Shocks and Startled / AVO Trampolines
- All comments are based on the size of my garden -

[Christian]

Quest:
As I said - it can be done quite easily.
My story was mainly there to amuse people. I mean - surely I had a REALLY bad feeling back then, but ECUs can be sourced from scrapyards quite cheaply.
One you have soldered a socket in there you can swap chips easily and try some things out.
Remapping the chip to the Z32 AFM can also be done. Not the fuel maps have to be altered. There are maps for the AFM itself.

As you I don't want to spend loads of money in my car - it has been enough already and (sadly) there are still things I consider.
My plans for further upgrades are.
maybe a front mount IC (see my other thread)
maybe 300ZX front calipers together with different discs/pads
and maybe I'll get different exhaust tips welded on my stainless steel exhaust system as the old ones .. hmm lets say I don't like them anymore
Then I have to invest in new tires and into getting all my mods registered to drive legally.
Still much money for a person who doesn't want to spend anymore http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/frown.gif

Thomas gain:
well this was when the car already was around the 250hp mark or so..

still wondering which webpage you mean... I've got none.. (although I'm half owner of www.180sx.org (http://www.180sx.org) but too lazy to do something...)

Cheers