New member, "Loved" the car now i hate it

[paulsx200]

Hi every1, i bought my M plate Sx200 just under 1 week ago, everything was fine until yesterday when the temp gauge began to flutter from hot to normal. I took it down to my local garage as i thought it may of been a sticky thermostat. The mechanic said he'd done a pressure test and it was fine and just needed topping up....phrew i thought.
Anyway coming home today it does exact opposite hardly moving off cold then going to norm temp, i drive a few more miles and hear a slight metallic noise (getting worried not sounding good) i proceed home in "limp home" mode then the noise gets worse, i pull up at the next junction with steam flooding out the bonnet.
Now i need a diagnosis; water dose'nt seem milky mayonaisie, when i opened the bonnet the water seemed to be sizzling in the manifold or turbo area, as we poured more hot water in it basically tricked back out!!!
Please help me out here guys the cars done 80k with full service history and deserves to be on our roads help. :mad:

[Jon]

old hand know it all post,

your turbo water feed pipe has cracked and lost the water.
Tomorrow, refill system, using the 10mm bleed nipple close to the top of the radiator, then pray.

Some folks get away with it (edit - 'it'means the overheating doing no further damage).
Others don't.

EDIT - metallic noises don't sound good. You might have noticed the heater stop blowing hot air just beforehand. That's usually the first sign of water loss.

[Jon]

:wave: welcome to the board by the way.

There are various options for fixing cracked pipes. The best permanent solution is to send a PM (private message) to SKIDZ, who sells flexible pipes.
The same problem can afflict the oil feed (being really pessimistic) so is a wise investment at the same time.

To fit them involves removing the turbo, which is a tomorrow question (too tired, too pissed)

[paulsx200]

gettiing a little that way myself mate. After all i need after my depressive day. Ok dose'nt seem to bad so far however the metallic noise was defo there, do you think the turbos' gone.?

[Jon]

Turbo will be fine.
Worst case scenario is 'too overheated' engine and a big(guessing £1500) bill.

Hopefully , the new pipes will do the trick (£120+£120fitting) but get someone in the know to have a look first.

Where abouts in the country are you ?

[BreadBin]

the exact same thing happened to me yesterday, it's a common fault apparently

[paulsx200]

I'm down in Cornwall far south west, a little concerned my local mechanic is going to rip me off, if any1 can help i would be much appreciated. Beer and food supplied :)

[paulsx200]

ho yeah, does the metallic noise relate to the broken water pipe?????

[Jamiem]

mettalic noise is a little worrying :( possible that the turbo overheated, but unlikely. very odd. might also just be a coincidence and a simple heat shield come loose, which is very common on these (i had one go after a few weeks of ownership, and also the waterfeed pipe go after 3 months of ownership!)

Jamie :thumbs:

p.s. dont give up hope, you will have little problems along the way, bu its just a sign to upgrade things and make it stronger and quicker!

[James]

metallic noise could potentially be detting :(
you can't trust the gauge at all if you've lost coolant as it only measures coolant temp, not engine temp, hence it was reading cold even though the engine must have been rather warm....
If the engine has overheated massively it could well have been detting it's tits off :( As Jon said above, worst case scenario is you're looking at a £1500 bill (mine cost me £1700)

[Matt_T]

you could fix it for £8 by ringing Earls and getting some blanking plugs for the block and getting rid of the turbo water pipes altogether. don't even have to take anything off to do it!

[BreadBin]

Has anyone had any problems doing this - surely the turbo has water cooling for a reason?

[Matt_T]

Phil has been running this for about a year I think, and I did it 5 months ago. no problems yet. the oil cools the turbo, not the water. just let it run for a bit longer after thrashing it than normal :thumbs:

[BreadBin]

hmm £8 instead of £135+ tough choice....
Got a part number for the blanking plugs or will Earls know what I am on about?

[Matt_T]

don't think they'd know:( but I'm sure a search on here would yield the thread size and pitch of the block, just order 2 of those and job done:)

[BreadBin]

No joy with the search....
:(

[Matt_T]

doh. I can't remember myself, at least not enough to want to comment! maybe ask a techie person?

[paulsx200]

Hi everyone, just got back from my nephews christening hence why i have'nt been here.
I've heard from the mechanic who has told me the water hose from the turbo and been ripped off along with the sheild (must of been that met noise i heard). The mechanic said something about the threads on the turbo have been destroyed so he wont be able to get the pipe to screw back in. He's basically saying i need a new turbo. What sort of price do these cost? where from? is it worth upgrading the turbo??
Many thanks for all your replies keep them coming.

[Jamiem]

i just bought a pukka t28 with no play, and in generally very good condition from someone on here for £170. bargain really! i would still consider (if the turbo is in good condition) doin as the others have said and blocking off the water feed (but either get a turbo timer, or make sure that you leave a few minutes cool down time before turning the engine off after each run of you will cook it!

Jamie

[Matt_T]

your mechanic sounds like he's trying his luck to me :( the water pipe doesn't screw into the turbo, so if it snapped it won't affect it at all. get the blanking plugs to ditch the water pipes altogether:) I'm not really sure that an increase in cool down time is needed without the water pipes, its just to be on the safe side :thumbs:

[Jamiem]

it may be the thread on the banjo bolt has stripped, although unless it was put in crossed it is highly unlikly that this is the case...

find a local member and ask them for some help. they will be able to adcise you without trying to make money or rip you off!

Jamie

[nikon_v]

the water pipe does screw in to the turbo via a banjo joint, they rite ba$*erds to refit aswell if you do the job yourself, but it does sound like hes try it on himself, best thing to do mate is have a look under the bonnet yourself, the turbo and its heat shields are on the passenger side of the engine, and if one is loose it should be pretty apparent, if the coolant pipe had burst (as mine did to the turbo) you would have smelt coolant as the turbo would be hot and the coolant would have leaked all over the warm exhaust and turbo, it smells horrible, you would also get pooling of fluid under the car when running or parked, so just fill it up and run it stationary, the leak will be apparent, as for blocking the turbo water pipes, id be carful of doing this the oil does cool the turbo alittle but its really there for the turbo shaft between the compressor and turbine to be lubircated, the water does help to cool the turbo especially when your working the car hard....

If you got a digicam try and get some pics or feel free to reply after trying the above.....

[Matt_T]

as for blocking the turbo water pipes, id be carful of doing this the oil does cool the turbo alittle but its really there for the turbo shaft between the compressor and turbine to be lubircated, the water does help to cool the turbo especially when your working the car hard....


most aftermarket turbo kits go without water cooling, and pretty much every D1 car I've seen pictures of the engine bay of has had the water bypassed too. its even recommended if you have overheating problems!

I'd definately do it even as a short term fix, then if it turns out something has been damaged you haven't just spent ages fitting new lines and spent £150 in the process :cry:

[paulsx200]

There was a pool of water underneath the turbo when the problem arised. The mechanic reckons 4-5 hours will be the labour and i will need to source a turbo. Does any1 have a good turbo for sale on here or can someone point me in the right direction for a recon one, as always all your help and ideas are appreciated.

[alanjuggler]

i really would get some second opinions off someone on the board..

i've never had my mechanic turn round to me even in the worst situation and say 'this is what needs to be done, no alternative' there's always alternatives, they're just not pretty or not very permanent. bodge-tastic fixes are the best if you're on a budget.

as matt says, blocking off the water feeds is a possible easy fix.

try posting in the regional SW section, see if you can lure someone with sweeties and fizzy drinks :)

[paulsx200]

He did say he could retap the thread but could'nt guarantee if it would hold under pressure!!!!
If i',m going to keep the car for 12 months i want it to be reliable as a temporary repair might cost more in the long term.

[paulsx200]

Ok from what i can gather the most reliable route is replacing the turbo. Just thought it might be worth upgrading the turbo to make the most out of this bad situation. I've read a little about the T28, is this the next logical step up???? Will i need any other mods and what sort of useable power gains should i expect?

[nikon_v]

mate 4 -5 hours labour is probably about rite if your taking the turbo out, which you could do yourself theres plenty of advice on here, but id be stunned if your turbo is dead, why does the guy think it is, i ran mine for further 20mins when my water pipe had broke and replaced it no problems, turbo pulls hard as ever, to be honnest you prob could run it without the water pipes, but im a fan of keeping the turbo as cool as possible, on thing you could try is fitting the new water pipe without removing the turbo ,manifold etc, it can be done , thats how mine was done, fiddly but possible and the pipe is only bout 40£ even if you get it straight from nissan so bendy ones from someone on here might be easier to fit with the turbo in place... all i did was remove all the pipes and heat sinks around and got at from the front of the car,

sounds like this guy looking at your car really wants to fit a new turbo, just not sure why you need one...

[Jon]

The standard S14 turbo is the T28.

It is an upgrade for S13 owners who have a T25 as standard.

I'd agree with the 'get a local to look at it' idea.
A water pipe leak rarely involves damaged thread on turbo. Unless the damaged thread is a result of previous bodging. There may be other issues if bodged :(

[paulsx200]

Soz for being so thick but at least i know i have the t28 now. So is there a common turbo upgrade for the s14?
Could someone send me a more detailed explanation of the blocking of water pipes into the turbo, do you block both inlet and outlet pipes??

[JackaL]

If your water pipe came off, the entire contents of your cooling system would have been deposited on your turbo or the road within about 60 seconds.

How far did you drive it after that?

Have you driven it since?

Best not to move it AT ALL until it's fixed. It won't hold any coolant, and will only cause damage.

Worst case, you've fooked the engine totally. Best case, a few hundred quid for some blanking bolts and the labour.

[Trackstar]

I rather doubt the threads would have been stripped from the turbo core, I reckon it'd be much more likely that the banjo bolt's thread would have stripped (mass produced using an advanced combination of butter and chocolate) and left part of itself in the core. If so you'd need to be careful about getting it ALL out.

[paulsx200]

Have taken yopur advice and spoke to the mechanic this morning, he said he was weary about blocking off the water supply so would have a better look into the thread on the turbo.
Have just come off the phone and thankfully the thread bit and be unscrewed and replaced.
After the pipe burst the engine was turned off amost immediately then rolled down to the garage. The engine does still start.
The mechanic is getting some diagrams from nissan to find the correct part as there a couple of different ones apparently.
While this is being done is there anything else i should ask him to do?

[JackaL]

I'd fit some flexible pipes instead of the nissan hard pipes. Flexible pipes are much less likely to crack, and MUCH easier to fit :)

fingers crossed there's no lasting damage :)

[Spartan]

Personally I would just blank the water outlets. As posted above not all turbo's are water cooled, it's what you would call over engineering and dumps a hell of a lot of excess heat into your engine coolant, thus taxing the cooling system. Not too mention shunting some of the heat into your block and cylinder head which could promote detonation when combined with higher boost/rpm levels.

As for the threads, why can't he retap them? Pressure what pressure? I've retapped threads on a 7000 psi fitting without leakage problems before.

If you insist on replacing the turbo, know that the cheapest one (new) will be £600. A ball bearing unit from here (http://www.apexperformance.co.uk/catalog/default.php?cPath=120_121_128&PHPSESSID=6440b4e79bc8513b1debb135ed368a1b) would be a good one. But I would make sure your own unit is fubar'd first.

I'm sure some other people are from cornwall, they may have a looksie for you.

[CraZyMoFo]

I've got some reasonably new coolant pipes if they are of any use. You can have them both for £20 if it's of interest. They are from a crashed S14 which had recently had all the turbo gasgets done on it.

[paulsx200]

Are these the pipes i need though?. All i know is there the water pipes that go to the turbo.

[CraZyMoFo]

Are these the pipes i need though?. All i know is there the water pipes that go to the turbo.

:nod: both the water send & return pipes to the turbo :)

[Jon]

paul is a noob so I'll point out that Crazy is a trustworthy bloke and knows what he's selling :nod:

Paul - If you buy rigid (or flexible) pipes, you also need copper washers for them. From Nissan (couple of quid each) or a matching size from elsewhere.
Consider replacing turbo gaskets at the same time. They are a common failure on S14 and the same parts (turbo, manifold) have to be removed/loosened to fit them.