E-Manage Problems (ignition/firmware related?)

[hobbsy]

Had some problems with my e-manage last Sat on the rollers.

The two main problems that occurred by the end of the day were:

1) changes to airflow correction map (fuelling) didn't make any difference to AFR shown on wideband lambda (and I was deffo out of closed loop)

2) was getting big misfires (almost like fuel cut) at about 3k when using about 70% throttle or higher

The changes made during the day were:

a) fitting Z32 AFM
b) updating e-manage pc tool to 1.13, which forced me to:
c) update the e-manage firmware to 1.39

I have kinda got to the bottom of 2) (misfires) and 1) may be ok (need to connect my wideband to check).

2) ended up being the ignition map. What we had done (this was at the last session) was retard the CAS 1 deg then fill the ignition maps with +1. This was done on the advice of Papa Laz, apparently having mostly 0's can make it a bit glitchy. Doing CAS -1, map +1 means that my timing shouldn't have changed from standard.

The only way to stop the big misfires was to set the ign map back to 0's, or -1's (so a change is ok, but +1 must be causing det). Only running 9/10psi on a GT2530 though.

So what I might do now is advance the CAS say 5 degrees then run a map of -5's on the e-manage.

I am still worried that there is something weird going on with the e-manage as a map of +1's was ok before. The only real thing to change is the AFM and pipeing.

The AFR not being altered by the fuel map I'm sure only happened after I updated the software and firmware, so I've put these back to what they were before.

Has anyone else had weird problems with the e-manage, specifically the ignition side. Or had any problems after updating the firmware?

Any help appreciated.

[Jez]

Do you have non-zero values in the additional injection map?

[hobbsy]

I'm not using the additional injection map to add extra fuel I'm using the airflow adjustment map (modifies the AFM voltage to trick the ECU).

I've got non-zero values in the airflow adjustment map, but not a full map as some is in the closed loop bits and we haven't mapped over about 3500rpm cos started having problems.

What are you thinking?

[Jez]

Mambastu had a prob with his emanage on the RB where it'd misfire if you modified the ignition map and not the additional injection fuelling map.

[Papa Lazarou]

The thing with doing all those changes at the same time means the problem is difficult to trace.

This new software/firmware sounds suspect though from what you've posted..

[hobbsy]

Hmm well I might try filling that map with +0.5% just on the off chance.

[hobbsy]

I agree, I only tried the 1.13/1.39 software/firmware after there seemed to be some problems just to see if it was less buggy.

I've since gone back to 1.11/1.36 - what versions are you using?

And what is your base timing set to on your CAS? You are running a thicker HG aren't you?

I'm trying to go back to known good settings etc, I think the AFM is ok.

It seems to want to stall when I pull up at junctions now, had a quick play with the anti-stall settings which seem to have helped - now sure if the clamp voltage is the input or output voltage.

I've also got the 1.20/1.40 which isn't widely available - apparently they are realising a new hardware version of the e-manage very soon and this is the software that is realised with it.

See:

http://chips.car-hacker.com/viewtopic.php?t=870

[Papa Lazarou]

1.11 and 1.36 myself.

No thicker HG installed.

CAS is I believe at 15 BTDC.

[hobbsy]

Hmm, what turbo are you running again and how much boost?

When do you make full boost?

When I set mine to 1bar on the rollers I saw 1bar at 2500rpm so maybe I need to retard mine lower down the rev range that yours?

[Papa Lazarou]

Greddy T518Z, 1.2-1.3 kg/cm, full boost at roughly 4000 rpm (depends on gear). Mate, I can only just make a couple of PSI positive boost at 2500 rpm in 5th..

[evil_scooby]

Few things.
What is CAS?

And yeh I had the same problems with having a jump from 0 to a postive number in the ignition map. It causes big misfire type things.

[Papa Lazarou]

Cam Angle Sensor.

It sounds like they've killed the functionality for ignition advance on the SR engine in the latest firmware. Nice one....

[disco-tom]

I wouldn't think so, Papa. I have the latest firmware on my unit and I have advanced ignition with no missfires.

[hobbsy]

Few things.
What is CAS?

And yeh I had the same problems with having a jump from 0 to a postive number in the ignition map. It causes big misfire type things.

Hmm well it wasn't so much a jump from a 0 to a 1, the whole map was 1's but yeah big ass misfires that feel like fuel cut.

I went from maybe 1.33 (my E-01 updated the e-manage when first connected) to 1.39 and now I've gone back to 1.36. I could try going back to 1.29 or 1.25 to see if that does anything.

It just doesn't seem to be the same after putting 1.39 on :(

I guess the solution is to advance the timing on the CAS by say 5 degrees then have a map full of -5 to get you back to 15deg BTDC then you can always go to a bigger -ve value to go more retarded and you've got 4 degrees of advance before you are on -1 and you would probably be ok with 5 degrees of advance and a 0 (giving 20deg ign advance which should be plenty?)

You've got to remember that the stock ECU still has an ignition map of its own so when you are off boost you actually run mental ign adv like 30degrees or something.

Maybe it only affects S14a's with their different ECU's, what have you got Disco-Tom?

I'd rather not do the CAS +5, map -5 thing but its the only way to get it to behave then so be it.

Evil_scooby - is yours all sorted now? Can you email me your map if so, did you have any other problems? Where you mapping it yourself on the road or on the rollers?

[evil_scooby]

Mapped on the rollers by mapping company.
Is is sorted, (kind of) the only way to sort it or fix the horrible miss fire was to take out any +ignition.
So all I have is retarted ignition at a few bits so dunno if my map will be any use to you.

[hobbsy]

Mapped on the rollers by mapping company.
Is is sorted, (kind of) the only way to sort it or fix the horrible miss fire was to take out any +ignition.
So all I have is retarted ignition at a few bits so dunno if my map will be any use to you.

Do you know what your CAS is set to then, cos if its 15degrees and all you've got is negative values you are probably loosing out on some off boost driveability? Although the std ecu should advance things itself.

I'd be keen to see your map anyway, I've sent you a PM.

What is the spec of your car? Is the 320@15psi current? Are you using a Z32 AFM?

I didn't seem to have these issues before I put that on (and updated the firmware)

[Papa Lazarou]

Somethings not right anyway. I take it theres no error codes?

Does it run really sweetly with no timing adjustment? Or is there still problems? Which would bring us back to the AFM.

[hobbsy]

Error codes from the ECU or e-manage? Does e-manage give you codes? I remember seeing a list in the back of the manual - where do they appear? As a pop-up box in the support tool?

It runs sweet with the timing map having any value that is zero or negative.

As soon as I fill it entirely (or partially) with an area of 1's (or 2's) I get misfires. And I'm not convinced its because I am close to det, I'm starting to think its an e-manage bug.

I would like to try and borrow another one to see if its ok, if anyone in the Northampton area could oblige? :thumbs:

[Tricky-Ricky]

Have you been running your wideband while its misfiring?

[kuddy]

I would like to try and borrow another one to see if its ok, if anyone in the Northampton area could oblige? :thumbs:
If there's noone nearer and you can be arsed, you're welcome to travel to Macclesfield to test it with mine.

[hobbsy]

Have you been running your wideband while its misfiring?

Well we didn't want to continue and keep making it do the misfire as it was pretty vicious and shook the whole car.

If I remember right you'd see it go quite lean when it misfired.

But then we did also get the occasional very loud backfire which I think was from being too lean.

kuddy - macc land is a bit far! But I'll bear it in mind, thanks for the offer

[Tricky-Ricky]

If i where you i would try switching back to the std AFM first, you said it was running ok before you changed it and the softwere! and you have now changed the softwere back, so a process of elimination i think!

[evil_scooby]

Yeh Im using a z32 afm with mine.
the 320bhp at 15psi
is all the normal stage one mods and 550 injectors, Z32 afm, and gt2871r turbo.

[evil_scooby]

Yeh Im using a z32 afm with mine.
the 320bhp at 15psi
is all the normal stage one mods and 550 injectors, Z32 afm, and gt2871r turbo.

Yeh the misfire shakes the whole car.

If you sit with the car on the rollers to recreate this problem you actually notice the voltage changes in the emanage , but not from the afm. Very odd, and not sure if this causes part of the issue.

Yeh i think I am losing some off boost drivability :( But we couldnt seem to fix the problem other ways.