View Full Version : Oil Advice And Recommendations Here
Dear Members,
My name is Simon Barnard and I own an oil distribution business in the South West.
I have been invited by the SXOC to run an “Oil Advice and Recommendations” service for your Club. The Club is a registered Member of our Clubs Oil Scheme for which this is a FREE service.
We deliver all oils by AMTRAK “overnight” service anywhere in mainland UK.
I'm here to answer questions, give advice and recommendations to the Members of this Club. I accept that everyone knows everything there is to know about oil, and the best oils to use in their cars, so it may fall on deaf ears, but most Clubs find my services and prices a benefit to their Members.
I do not like posting prices for my oils on open forums so you will need to email me for a price list.
sales@opieoils.co.uk
Hopefully I can at least expose some of the myths and give sound "technical" advice.
I would like to point out that, I sell Castrol, Mobil, Silkolene, Fuchs and Total Oils and have no particular loyalty to one brand (Customers buy what they are comfortable with) however, I normally recommend oils based on the following criteria:
1) Technical Specifications and suitability
2) Quality compared to others of the same performance
3) Price comparisons (VFM)
Naturally, I have my favorites, but this is based on quality and performance.
Many of the oils I sell are not available in the shops but are specialist oils only available through Authorised Distributors like myself (e.g. I don't sell Magnatec but I do to supply Castrol Performance 10w-40 semi-syn not available in the shops).
On a public forum there are drawbacks, especially if the product is made by a supplier of mine so I may "duck" some questions and reply to you personally by PM.
My opinions are frank but based on facts so I'll apologise in advance if I upset anyone. I will ALWAYS give you the "best advice", but you don't have to take it.
I look forward to being of service to SXOC Members and Forum users.
Email : sales@opieoils.co.uk
Tech Specs: http://www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm
Telephone: 01209 215164 Fax 01209 314019
Simon Barnard
Partner
Opie Oils
RECOMMENDATIONS
To help me, to help you I would be grateful if you could supply the following information when requesting a recommendation:
Make
Model
Year
Engine Size
Engine Type
Any Mods
Type of driving (track or just road etc)
The oil you currently use (make and grade)
Thanks for your cooperation
Cheers
Simon
Something to think about!
A word of caution – You get what you pay for!
Below is an article written by John Rowland, Silkolene/Fuchs Chief R & D Chemist for 40 years.
Quote:
Costs of synthetics vary considerably. The most expensive are the “Ester” types originally only used in jet engines. These cost 6 to 10 times more than high quality mineral oils. The cheapest synthetics are not really synthetic at all, from a chemists point of view. These are in fact specially refined light viscosity mineral oils known as “hydrocracked”. These have some advantages over equivalent mineral oils, particularly in lower viscosity motor oils such as 5w-30 or other oils with a low “W” rating such as 5w-50 etc and they cost about 1.5 times more than good quality mineral fractions. We use several different grades of this base oil, where appropriate. This is the “synthetic” which is always used in cheap oils that are labelled “synthetic”. Yes it’s a cruel world, you get what you pay for!
Now, you may ask, why are these special mineral oils called “synthetic”? Well, it was all sorted in a legal battle that took place in the USA about ten years ago. Sound reasons (including evidence from a Nobel Prize winning chemist) were disregarded and the final ruling was that certain mineral bases that had undergone extra chemical treatments could be called “synthetic”. Needless to say, the marketing executives wet their knickers with pure delight! They realised that this meant, and still does, that the critical buzz-word “synthetic” could be printed on a can of cheap oil provided that the contents included a few percent of “hydrocracked” mineral oil, at a cost of quite literally a few pence.
So, the chemistry of “synthetics” is complex and so is the politics!
The economics are very simple. If you like the look of a smart well-marketed can with “synthetic” printed on it, fair enough, it will not cost you a lot; and now you know why this is the case. But, if you drive a high performance car, and you intend to keep it for several years, and maybe do the odd “track day”, then you need a genuine Ester/PAO (Poly Alpha Olefin) synthetic oil, such as PRO S or PRO R. This oil costs more money to buy, because it costs us a lot of money to make, very simply, you always get what you pay for!
UNQUOTE:
This article is something that all car owners should read and understand before buying oil and I’ve posted this with Johns permission.
Cheers,
Simon .
So given that this is the 200SX forum .. and most of the cars are modified can you not give a general advise for somebody with a modified 1.8/2.0L Turbo car that will stand up the the rigours of track and fast road use. This would cover most people here.
The current Fav oils are
Castrol RS 10w60
Mobil M-Sport 15w50
Actual_Ben_Taylor
08-07-2004, 12:46
Hello Simon welcome to the board :)
You might as well start with mine :)
Make - Nissan
Model - 200SX
Year - 1998
Engine Size - 2000
Engine Type - Turbo
Any Mods - Loads, over 400bhp
Type of driving (track or just road etc) - Used every day. Shortish trips to work and frequent high speed motorway stuff. Also occasional track days.
The oil you currently use (make and grade)
Usually use Castrol RS 10W60 and tend to change it very frequently
Cheers :)
Hi Simon :)
I've got an oil change due in 500 miles so would be great if you could steer me :)
Make: Nissan
Model: 200sx S14
Year: 1995
Engine Size: 1998cc
Engine Type: SR20DET 16v Turbo
Any Mods: List here (http://www.sxoc.com/site/rides/ride.php?Member_ID=387)
Type of driving (track or just road etc): Just road, frequent 15 mile A/B road journeys some shorter, hardly any motorway.
The oil you currently use (make and grade): Mobil 1 Motorsport 15w/50 changed ever 3k miles
Dave
--lorien--
08-07-2004, 12:57
And possibly mine, must reflect a similar spec to a few owners here.
Make - Nissan
Model - 200SX
Year - 1999
Engine Size - 2000
Engine Type - Turbo
Any Mods - Slight boost upgrade, exhaust, filter
Type of driving (track or just road etc) - Used every day. Shortish trips to work. Some fast road. No track day.
46k mileage.
Only recently had the car, no idea of current oil.
Cheers, need to buy some oil sharpish too. :)
Ok, to be frank with you.
The manufacturer seems to recommend a range of oils for your cars from 5w to 15w and sae 30 to 50.
Based on regular service intervals and "normal" driving however the best bet with regards to standard cars and UK weather is 10w-40 Semi or Fully Synthetic.
There are always options to consider with regards to "special requirements" if you would like to do this but you'll need further advice and.................I may have further questions for you.
Nissan 200sx (1989-93) API SF
Nissan 200sx (1995-97) API SG
Nissan 200sx (1997-99) API SH
Specs have moved on now so most oils sold today are API SJ/SL
As mentioned above, there are reasons for stepping out of the Manufacturers recommended grade but you should never go too far, 0w might not be good here nor would 60, it's just a step too far.
So, why would you want to do it?
Basically there are advantages here and they are as follows:
5w-40 instead of 10w-40
5w offers better cold start and short journey protection as it's thinner than 10w and remember this is when 70+ percent of the engine wear occurs.
10w-50 instead of 10w-40 - 15w-50 instead of 15w-40
50 offers better protection than 40 when the engine is running hot so if you're doing track days or hard driving you may want to consider this option.
A word of warning about 60 grade
Modern engines do not need a 60 grade, it's really too thick and, even hot-running engines do not need SAE 60 oil these days. (by ‘hot’ I mean 120-130C). SAE 60 is heavier than most SAE 90 gear oils. If an oil is too thick, it de-aerates slowly, leading to cavitation in the oil pump, or the bearings being fed slugs of air along with the oil.
The thickness of the oil will also have an effect on the cars performance.
Synthetic Oils instead of Mineral Oils.
It is a fact that Semi and Fully synthetic oils are better for your car, they flow better when cold and give a greater level of protection when the engine is hot.
It is a fact, not myth that complex engines such as DOHC, Turbocharged, and Supercharged when driven hard will always have a greater degree of protection from a synthetic oil.
A synthetic oil is more robust and will last longer (that's why they cost more) mineral oils need much more frequent oil changes but they are cheaper. Semi-synthetic is to some extent the "middle ground" for pennies more than a good mineral oil.
Ester Synthetic Oils against Normal Synthetic Oils
The oils that give true benefits are ester synthetics (pretty hard to come by as they are expensive to make although Silkolene still does). The reasons for their application in motorsport and the aviation sector are clear:
They assist the additive pack in a motor oil formulation because they are surface-active (electrostatically attracted to metal surfaces), so they help to reduce wear and friction.
They are fluid at very low temperatures and at high temperatures they are very chemically stable and have low volatility (don’t evaporate away).
They also help to prevent hardening and cracking of oil seals at high temperatures.
It should be said that there are three types of synthetic oils on the market and they vary in quality and price the lowest being MC/HC (Molecularly Converted/Hydrocracked) mineral oil, POA's Poly Alpha Olefins and Esters.
So, there you have it, some advantages and disadvantages to consider, I'm here to give advice so please feel free to ask, I'll do my best to answer you.
As many of you will be aware, I sell the likes of Mobil 1 15w-50 Motorsport, Castrol RS 10w-60 and the Silkolene PRO S and PRO R Ester Range so I have plenty of oils to choose from. At the end of the day, I will tell you truthfully what I think are the best but you must use what you are comfortable with.
Hopefully I can save you some money at least! For a price list, you need to email me:
sales@opieoils.co.uk
Tech Data: http://www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm
Cheers
Simon
Hi, and welcome to the board! :wave:
Most people on here will be using Mobil 1 15w50 or Castrol RS 10w60...
My spec is fairly standard, so will be covered by someone elses post :)
I'd like to know your thoughts on extending oil change intervals when using synthetic... The official Nissan oil change interval is about 6000 miles for the S14, but most people seem to change theirs at about 3-5K miles...
I understand some manufacturers state that you can extend the service interval if you go to fully synthetic - what are your thoughts on this?
(A friend of my Dad's used to be an auto-electrician for VW. They were told that if you used the VW synth oil (Quantum?) you could extend the changes - he was running 15-20K between oil swaps on a mark2 golf gti, but changing the filter at the normal intervals)
I'm sure someone will ask you for your professional opinion on oil additives, don't answer as it's sure to get heated!!! (search for the prolong thread for full details)...
Jon
Hi Guys,
Thanks for the diff oil Simon, received it today!
If you want to know what oils you guys should be using give simon a ring/pm/email, he is a very interesting guy to converse with and will give you some insider knowledge ;)
It seems then for me 5w50 Full Synth would be ideal.
most journeys are 55miles (distance to work)
I take the car on the track.
I have an oil cooler - runs @ 75/80oC on road (oil cooler covered in tin foil) and .... well we'll see on the track but not over 120 for sure :thumbs
Would mixing equal amounts of Castrol RS 0w40 with 10w60 give the best results then ?
Presumably in winter, with no trackdays and colder ambient, a different grade would be better.
I'd like to know your thoughts on extending oil change intervals when using synthetic... The official Nissan oil change interval is about 6000 miles for the S14, but most people seem to change theirs at about 3-5K miles...
I understand some manufacturers state that you can extend the service interval if you go to fully synthetic - what are your thoughts on this?
(A friend of my Dad's used to be an auto-electrician for VW. They were told that if you used the VW synth oil (Quantum?) you could extend the changes - he was running 15-20K between oil swaps on a mark2 golf gti, but changing the filter at the normal intervals)
In general, yes synthetics will last longer, ester being the best, here's a rule of thumb. (It does depend on the quality of the oil though!) The more expensive oils with "high grade" VI improvers will last longer as the oil will last longer before "shearing" thinning down.
MC synthetic - 3000-5000 miles
POA's - 6000-8000 miles
Esters - 10000-120000 miles
You need to equate cost/quality.
Most "long drain" oils as specified by manufacturers such as Audi/VW and BMW are in fact either 0w-30 or 0w-40 (VW 503.01 and BMW LL01) but I wouldn't say these were good for your cars especially if your tracking it, besides they are specified for variable service intervals. The car tells you when type scenario.
I'm sure someone will ask you for your professional opinion on oil additives, don't answer as it's sure to get heated!!! (search for the prolong thread for full details)...
Hmmm I think many will already have seen the views that I have posted on other forums, do we need to go there? :annoyed:
Cheers
Simon
Would mixing equal amounts of Castrol RS 0w40 with 10w60 give the best results then ?
Presumably in winter, with no trackdays and colder ambient, a different grade would be better.
OMG, please don't mix oils. They are formulated with very fine tolerances.
Don't mix as the oil companies do this for you.
All year round consider Silkolene PRO S 10w-50 or 5w-40 ester Fully Syn.
Don't be afraid of going to 5w as long as it's an ester (this transcript will open a few eyes - Names witheld but available on request)
From: xxxxx
Sent: 07 May 2004 16:16
To: Rowland, John
Cc: xxxxx
Subject: Peugeot Cosworth - result!
John
Just a note to let you know I've heard from xxxxx - the rally driver with
the 300+bhp Peugeot-ice-racer-bodied hybrid with the normally asthmatic
Cosworth in the back.
Prior to you taking over, he used to have to strip the engine after every event (normally 45 miles, he couldn't get it to last for a National event of 70-80 miles) and change the big end bearings every time. He'd been everywhere and tried everything (including Halfords!), and couldn't solve his problem.
First off, he was really surprised when you asked to look at the bearings, as
no-one had ever asked! He was equally surprised by your recommendation to go thinner, and also, I have to say, worried. He equated 'thickness' with 'better protection'. I eventually persuaded him to try Pro S 5w/40, as you suggested.
He called me to say he'd stripped the engine this week, after it's FOURTH event (approx 200 competitive miles!), and there isn't a mark on it. He is utterly delighted, and asked me to pass on his thanks for all your help and expertise.
I'd also like to add my thanks to you. He is extremely influential in
competition circles, and is now going to tell the world and his wife what, and
who, sorted this problem.
Once again, many thanks
Regards
xxxx
Hope this is of interest.
Cheers
Simon
Wow you guys even get your own oil specialist :thumbs: :thumbs:
Some nice info here :)
I changed my oil 2 months ago and was looking for silkolene or mobil1 but they are just too hard to find in my country so went with castrol rs10w60.
All year round consider Silkolene PRO S 10w-50 or 5w-40 ester Fully Syn.
Don't be afraid of going to 5w as long as it's an ester
Cheers
Simon
Hello Simon and thanks for your input into this board :thumbs:
Very interesting reading to say the least.
I have always been a great believer of “it’s not what oil you use it’s how often you change it” I have used Valvoline sae 5-40 synthetic in every car I have owned and always changed the oil at 3K miles. I have never had any engine component wear out and that includes a Cavalier that had covered 185,000 miles. I assume that the Valvoline oil is not an ester because it’s relatively cheap but do you think it’s too thin? Also why would a 5w ester offer better protection than a 5w MC/HC oil?
Like many others on the board I have a mildly tuned 200 and realise with a turbo charged car the oil is working in a more extreme environment. My consideration now is should I use the Silkolene PRO S ester oil and increases the mileage between changes or is it better to change it more frequently and use a lower quality synth oil? Is suppose it’s a £ / performance trade off but I would think a few of the board members are thinking the same. I have emailed a request for a price list.
Thanks
Pete R
Mr Oilman sir,
I have used Halfords semi-synth 10w40 during winter (lots of 1 mile journeys from cold) and have changed to 15w50 Mobil1 for the summer (more 1 mile journeys and a couple of trackdays).
And intend to change back to the cheaper Halfords oil at next change in the autumn.
Rumour has it that mixing the two oils is unwise. Is there any truth in this ?
1995 200SX SR20 engine 1998cc. Standard at 10psi boost. 104k miles now , oil change pattern since 80k over 2years.
Cheers for any advice,
Jon
Simon,
I work for Ford so use their own brand 5w40 synthetic (which i believe is Havoline) I have the 2.0 DOHC Turbo (with roller bearing turbo running around 15psi, estimated 270 bhp) and do about 20k a year (mixed main roads and round town) is this suitable?
Cheers
Jezz_S13
09-07-2004, 08:27
Hi Simon,
What do you make of this...
http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=93665
crackdownuk
09-07-2004, 08:40
LOL how did i know it what gonna be that thread :D
In general, yes synthetics will last longer, ester being the best, here's a rule of thumb. (It does depend on the quality of the oil though!) The more expensive oils with "high grade" VI improvers will last longer as the oil will last longer before "shearing" thinning down.
MC synthetic - 3000-5000 miles
POA's - 6000-8000 miles
Esters - 10000-120000 miles
You need to equate cost/quality.
Thanks for the info. You've already stated that the top Silkolene oil is Ester, what are Mobil1 / Castrol RS?
Cheers,
Jon
Hi Simon,
What do you make of this...
Simon, if you are going to comment on that thread, can you post within that thread, so we dont end up with 19 pages of crap in this one please.
And While you are here, what would you recomend for a 1.8 Normaly asperated ford diesel engine 1998. .... no mods :D ... just want it to trawl up and down the motorway all day everyday, summer and winter :thumbs:
I assume that the Valvoline oil is not an ester because it’s relatively cheap but do you think it’s too thin? Also why would a 5w ester offer better protection than a 5w MC/HC oil?
I think 5w-40 is fine but an ester is much more stable and tougher.
Quote:
WHY ARE ESTERS SO GOOD?
They assist the additive pack in a motor oil formulation because they are surface-active (electrostatically attracted to metal surfaces), so they help to reduce wear and friction.
They are fluid at very low temperatures and at high temperatures they are very chemically stable and have low volatility (don’t evaporate away).
They also help to prevent hardening and cracking of oil seals at high temperatures.
Like many others on the board I have a mildly tuned 200 and realise with a turbo charged car the oil is working in a more extreme environment. My consideration now is should I use the Silkolene PRO S ester oil and increases the mileage between changes or is it better to change it more frequently and use a lower quality synth oil? Is suppose it’s a £ / performance trade off but I would think a few of the board members are thinking the same. I have emailed a request for a price list.
I've sent you the price list and you need to compare but if you change the ester every 6000+ miles I think you'll see that you're quids in by running on a better oil :)
Cheers
Simon
Rumour has it that mixing the two oils is unwise. Is there any truth in this ?
Modern oils actually mix pretty well as long as you follow a simple flushing procedure. DON'T use flushing oils though!
Why use 2 different oils when one will do the job?
Use a good 5w-40 all year round!
Cheers
Simon
Simon,
I work for Ford so use their own brand 5w40 synthetic (which i believe is Havoline) I have the 2.0 DOHC Turbo (with roller bearing turbo running around 15psi, estimated 270 bhp) and do about 20k a year (mixed main roads and round town) is this suitable?
Cheers
5w-40 is good, can't vouch for the quality of this one though :confused:
Cheers
Simon
DON'T use flushing oils though!
Cheers
Simon
Errr, can you elebaorate for the less mechanically aware among us please!
Do you mean the engine oil flush stuff (like Wynns) that you add to you oil before doing a change?
Thanks :)
Having just spoken to Simon on the phone, he's a top guy - very knowledgeable and very helpful...
I've got 10 litres of Silkolene Pro-S 5w40 turning up on Monday, should keep me going for a while, and works out way cheaper than getting mobil1 from somewhere like Halfords :thumbs:
Hi Simon,
What do you make of this...
http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=93665
OK, here goes, into the lions den! :down:
A WORD OF CAUTION ON ADDITIVES!
This is the transcript of an AA article published in Motor May 10th 1986.
The widely-advertised oil additive Slick 50 has been soundly slammed by the AA’s Technical Services.
The AA claim that their tests show Slick 50 provides no fuel savings when it is added to a cars engine oil – and there is no evidence of any other benefits under normal operating conditions.
The AA have made no press or public announcement of their report, but have produced a leaflet for the benefit of any paid-up members who apply for one. An AA member on Motor’s staff applied for a report in the normal way.
The report states that whilst there is no evidence the product will do harm to the engine, one good point is that most of it will be very rapidly removed by the oil filter. “At about £12 per treatment”, say the AA, “it is a very expensive way of coating your oil filter element”.
The AA performed tests by taking three identical cars and carefully running them in, splitting the driving equally among their test drivers. Oils were changed at 1500 miles, the cars were run a further 500 miles to stabilise the oils’ viscosity, the cars’ tuning was carefully checked and steady speed fuel consumptions and power outputs were measured.
The report says: “The procedure is so sensitive that, for instance, leaving the headlamps of the car switched on will make a nonsense of the results due to the extra drag of the charging system”.
Engineers added Slick 50 to two of the cars in the recommended way at 3000 miles.
After a further 2000 miles, further dynamometer tests were carried out. “One car should show the sort of gradual change expected of a car in good condition” says the report, “whereas two should show a noticeable improvement . Here came the big disappointment. After our several months of careful testwork, we could not distinguish any difference between the three cars.”
The AA claimed that all cars were performing well, but performance was remarkably consistent , within a few percent.
The AA say that a detailed examination of the claims made for the product will explain what happens when Slick 50 is added to an engine. Of one gallon of petrol burnt in an engine, says the report, some 60 percent of the energy will be lost as heat from the exhaust and cooling system. That leaves 40 percent and some 25 percent is used to drive the car and its accessories. The remaining 15 percent goes to losses such as pumping air into the engine (6 percent) and some 9 percent is lost as engine friction. Of that 9 percent, 6 percent is lost in churning the oil and only 3 percent of the total input goes into the sort of “boundary” friction that a solid lubricant could affect. “If tests of Slick 50 did show a 16 percent decrease in this friction, as claimed in current advertisements”, says the report, “it would only affect the car’s overall consumption by a half of one percent”.
The AA also claim that their tests show there is no evidence that Slick 50 produces a surface layer on the engine wearing surfaces, let alone one that could last for 100,000 miles.
On questioning John Rowland, Silkolene/Fuchs Chief R&D Chemist for 40 years about additives, I received the following reply.
Quote:
The AA report encapsulates my opinion of Slick 50, it is an expensive way of blocking your oil filter, Believe me, it does precisely nothing beneficial. It has been proven time and time again that it just blocks oil filters and oilways.
For all other “magic” additives, most are based on 1930’s technology corrosive chlorinated paraffins. (synthetic anti-seize compounds originally made 70 years ago. They are cheap, toxic and corrosive. We use them in certain types of cutting oil!) Do not touch them with somebody else’s bargepole!
UCL’s on the other hand can be useful. After all, 2-strokes in effect run entirely on UCL. So……the best UCL’s are 2-stroke oils! I always tell people to use a decent 2-stroke at 0.5% or 1%, because they are superior to the UCL’s sold as UCL’s if you get my drift. A litre of Super 2 Injector or Comp-2 will be better than a cupful of cheap mineral oil dyed red (no prizes for guessing the name) any day.
Vee engines (twins, to V8’s) benefit from UCL’s because the upper walls of the RH cylinder bank, looking from the front, always run dry. Think about it!
Unquote:
UCL = Upper Cylinder Lubricant
So, there you have it.
Cheers,
Simon Barnard
Thanks for the info. You've already stated that the top Silkolene oil is Ester, what are Mobil1 / Castrol RS?
Jon
Looking at the data sheets they don't mention ester so they will be PAO's
Cheers
Simon
And While you are here, what would you recomend for a 1.8 Normaly asperated ford diesel engine 1998. .... no mods :D ... just want it to trawl up and down the motorway all day everyday, summer and winter :thumbs:
What car is it, Make, Model, Year etc.
Cheers
S
Chiffs-boy
09-07-2004, 11:15
I think i will be coming up to see you very soon as i only live in penzance.
Mate of mine came up to see about oil for his scooby and said you where very helpfull and had a rx8 i think?
Will be up there this afternoon. See you later :thumbs:
Errr, can you elebaorate for the less mechanically aware among us please!
Do you mean the engine oil flush stuff (like Wynns) that you add to you oil before doing a change?
Thanks :)
Yep, don't waste your money, they do more harm than good.
For Flushing follow this procedure:
Warm up engine to get oil circulating
Turn off and drop old oil
Fill to min on dipstick with new oil (you will be wasting this oil)
Warm up engine to get oil circulating
Turn off, drop oil and change filter
Fill to mark on dipstick with fresh new oil
Hope this helps,
Simon
I think i will be coming up to see you very soon as i only live in penzance.
Mate of mine came up to see about oil for his scooby and said you where very helpfull and had a rx8 i think?
Will be up there this afternoon. See you later :thumbs:
Yes that's me and I do run a stock RX8 :thumbs:
We're on the Cardrew Ind Estate, Redruth (Scorrier end)
You'll save the carriage too! :)
Cheers
Simon
Iain s14
09-07-2004, 11:41
I've sent a PM :)
What car is it, Make, Model, Year etc.
ford escort van 75
1.8D 1998
40000 miles ont the clock
thanks :)
I spoke with Simon yesterday by e-mail, and by phone for about half an hour. He is a very knowledgeable person. He gave me detailed info about certain oils and backed it up with hard facts, while still chatting on the phone. I have a slight advantage over the average SX owner being a chemist by trade and having worked for Fina oils (Heavy oils / Bitumen) before it became TotalFinaElf for just over 2 years. After this discussion I have decided to swap from Castrol 10w60 to Silkolene Pro S and to increase the oil life from 4000 to 6000 miles. This may seem in contradiction to what many of us do and belive but I can highly recommend a detailed discussion with Simon as to the reasons behind this. Ester Fully Synths are the way to go, not all fully synths are the same. I will be at Mascrat as usual if anyone wishes to discuss with me why and for what reasons I have changed my oil requirements.
Like many others on the board I have a mildly tuned 200 and realise with a turbo charged car the oil is working in a more extreme environment. My consideration now is should I use the Silkolene PRO S ester oil and increases the mileage between changes or is it better to change it more frequently and use a lower quality synth oil? Is suppose it’s a £ / performance trade off but I would think a few of the board members are thinking the same. I have emailed a request for a price list.
Okay, time to wade in with my questions :D I'm currently rebuilding an S13 engine (CA18DET) which will be eventually putting out around 240hp. It'll all be new... rings' bearing seals etc etc. What oil would you recomend for running it in with and what running in procedure aacn you recomend if any?. And what oil should I use thereafter. I like the sound of the Silkolene Pro-S and I want to use the best I can get with this engine.
Secondy, any recomendation for an oil to use in a FWD transaxle (Nissan Sunny ZX) that has a viscous limited slip diff?? :confused:
I really welcome the opportunity to learn a bit about oils and lubrication as it's an area I have been somewhat ignorant about for too long. I think my days of "some good 'ole Castrol GTX will do" are over :wack:
Cheers for all your advice :thumbs:
-Eddie
PhilMorrison
09-07-2004, 14:14
Engine: 2.0 SR20DET Turbocharged 310bhp
I have a Mocal oil cooler, and use Mobil 1 MS 15w50 and swap every 1500 miles, the car is a daily driver, making frequent short journeys, I'll quite often just reach a safe high load driving temerature as I pull into the carpark at work :rolleyes:. The car is always warmed up and cooled down properly. here's the problem though, weekends are often spent drifting, that basically is high load, high rpm, relativly low speed driving, and due to the angle of the car, the radiator intercooler and oil cooler don't really see enough airflow. I quite often find that I have to end a run short (after 4-5minutes of driving) due to disturbing oil temperatures. What do you recommend?
I also run a clutch pack racing LSdifferential, I'm supposed to only use Nismo LSD oil in it, but it's hard to get hold of, can you help?
Cheers
Phil
--lorien--
09-07-2004, 14:55
I also found Simon to be very knowledgeable and he gave me many good reasons to run Silkolene Pro S especially for short cold start journeys! So I ordered 2x5litres to be delivered monday! :thumbs:
Good effort. :)
You get my PM?
My automatic PM notification was not switched on :sleep:
All replied to now :wave:
Cheers
Simon
ford escort van 75
1.8D 1998
40000 miles ont the clock
thanks :)
:clap: Makes a change!
Book says 10w-40 semi syn.
I've loads to choose from.
Cheers
Simon
Okay, time to wade in with my questions :D I'm currently rebuilding an S13 engine (CA18DET) which will be eventually putting out around 240hp. It'll all be new... rings' bearing seals etc etc. What oil would you recomend for running it in with and what running in procedure aacn you recomend if any?. And what oil should I use thereafter. I like the sound of the Silkolene Pro-S and I want to use the best I can get with this engine.
Running in on a mineral 15w-40 or 15w-50 (but not any old :censored: )
Running in for 500-1000 miles.
After use 5w-40, 10w-40 or 10w-50 depending on how you intend to use the car.
Secondy, any recomendation for an oil to use in a FWD transaxle (Nissan Sunny ZX) that has a viscous limited slip diff?? :confused:
No problems but I need more info as I'm going to check on this one.
Make, Model, Year, engine type and Size etc.
Cheers
Simon
Engine: 2.0 SR20DET Turbocharged 310bhp
I have a Mocal oil cooler, and use Mobil 1 MS 15w50 and swap every 1500 miles, the car is a daily driver, making frequent short journeys, I'll quite often just reach a safe high load driving temerature as I pull into the carpark at work :rolleyes:. The car is always warmed up and cooled down properly. here's the problem though, weekends are often spent drifting, that basically is high load, high rpm, relativly low speed driving, and due to the angle of the car, the radiator intercooler and oil cooler don't really see enough airflow. I quite often find that I have to end a run short (after 4-5minutes of driving) due to disturbing oil temperatures. What do you recommend?
As it happens, MOBIL1 Motorsport is a good oil, I recommend and sell it but it doesn't quite seem up to the job here! Regular changes as well so it should be ok.
Personally, before you spend mega-money solving the cooling problem, I would try Silkolene PRO R 15w-50 ester and see if it makes a difference.
I also run a clutch pack racing LSdifferential, I'm supposed to only use Nismo LSD oil in it, but it's hard to get hold of, can you help?
Hmm, I don't know anything about this oil but could probably find a direct equivalent. If you have a bottle then I'll need all the data off it like specs grade etc...........anything you can get and I'll ask for some advice.
Cheers
Simon
I think I'm gonna give the Silkolene Pro-S a go and extend the change intervals (Like SmZzoom)
Dave
Martin T
09-07-2004, 20:04
I run a Citroen Xsara VTS around. Problem is in the evening the oil is only at running temperature about 2 mins before I get home. Before I leave in the morning, I leave the car idling for ages untill the water's fully up to temperature. The oil then usually gets about 7 mins at running temp (I dont know what temp it is but its the first notch after 50 degs - there is a notch for 50, then 3 notches, then a whole bunch of them near 150 :eek: )
What oil would you recommend.
Car is not used on track days but I would be interested in the future.
I run a Citroen Xsara VTS around. Problem is in the evening the oil is only at running temperature about 2 mins before I get home. Before I leave in the morning, I leave the car idling for ages untill the water's fully up to temperature. The oil then usually gets about 7 mins at running temp (I dont know what temp it is but its the first notch after 50 degs - there is a notch for 50, then 3 notches, then a whole bunch of them near 150 :eek: )
What oil would you recommend.
Car is not used on track days but I would be interested in the future.
The recommended is 10w-40 semi-syn, what are you using currently?
Cheers
Simon
Martin T
09-07-2004, 22:03
The recommended is 10w-40 semi-syn, what are you using currently?
Cheers
Simon
What the dealer put in it. Only had the car a week so far :)
MattyGee
09-07-2004, 22:27
I think I'm gonna give the Silkolene Pro-S a go and extend the change intervals (Like SmZzoom)
Dave
same here, i have to drive 60 miles work milage a day but also just do short journeys at the w/ends so this sounds like the best one for me :)
Running in on a mineral 15w-40 or 15w-50 (but not any old :censored: )
Running in for 500-1000 miles.
After use 5w-40, 10w-40 or 10w-50 depending on how you intend to use the car.
Cool, I'll be giving you a call shortly to order up some lube :thumbs: The car is likely to get used for some drag racing and fast road use... no day-to-day going to work type stuff though at all.
Edit: I forgot to add..about that transaxle... The car is a 1990 Nissan Sunny ZX, model N13. It has a 1.8 DOHC 16V (129bhp) and the viscous limited slip diff is standard on this model so all the N13 ZX's have it.
I think I'm gonna give the Silkolene Pro-S a go and extend the change intervals (Like SmZzoom)
Dave
It also works out at the same price per litre as the oil I am using now. Will be cheaper when Me, Petrol & hopefully a couple of other Mascrat regulars sort an ickle get together and buy 4 .. or 8 or whatever. So with the same 4K or 5/6K intervals its may work out cheaper too.
I was wondering what you thought about getting oil analysed every other change?I have heard its pretty succesful at uncovering immenant big end and main failures due to the metals found in the sample.This seems ideal for S13 owners such as me who would rather replace shells than have a crank reground,an early warning would be nice.Would you reccomend it,or indeed know of anywhere that youve had experience with?
Also,im currently rebuilding my 1991 200sx engine,should be producing between 350-400hp and gets used for occasional trackdays as well as some day to day pootling about,could you recommend an oill for when its run in,also a gearbox oil for the same car,as im sure it'l need something a bit cleverer than the standard reccomended oil from Nissan
Thanks
-edited to add this link so folk can check out what im blathering on about-
http://www.theoillab.co.uk/
What the dealer put in it. Only had the car a week so far :)
I have quite a few 10w-40's please email me for a price list.
Would look at:
Castrol Performance 10w-40
Silkolene XTR 10w-40
sales@opieoils.co.uk
Cheers
Simon
I was wondering what you thought about getting oil analysed every other change?I have heard its pretty succesful at uncovering immenant big end and main failures due to the metals found in the sample.This seems ideal for S13 owners such as me who would rather replace shells than have a crank reground,an early warning would be nice.Would you reccomend it,or indeed know of anywhere that youve had experience with?
Also,im currently rebuilding my 1991 200sx engine,should be producing between 350-400hp and gets used for occasional trackdays as well as some day to day pootling about,could you recommend an oill for when its run in,also a gearbox oil for the same car,as im sure it'l need something a bit cleverer than the standard reccomended oil from Nissan
Thanks
Firstly analysis.
Sounds good in practice but do you really want to be shelling out over 100 quid each time you change the oil?
With regards to your car, you'll see my recommendations here but with the quoted BHP, I would suggest you use something good. Silkolene?
Gearbox I would use Silkolene SYN 5 Fully Syn 75w-90.
For price list, email me: sales@opieoils.co.uk
Cheers
Simon
Hi Oilman,
I don't know if anyone has told you yet but the Big end bearings have a tendency to fail, on the S13 200sx, does this affect your choice of oil?
No Mark, it actually reinforces my recommendation.
I recommended Silkolene Pro-S 5W/40 as this will circulate rapidly on start-up if the damage is due to starvation during those vital first ten seconds. Also, the superior load-carrying and film strength will give more protection at high speed, if the problem is down to poor oil pressure or overloading. (See the rally Peugeot report posted, reposted here for those who missed it!)
From: xxxxxx
Sent: 07 May 2004 16:16
To: Rowland, John
Subject: Peugeot Cosworth - result!
John
Just a note to let you know I've heard from xxxxxx - the rally driver with the 300+bhp Peugeot-ice-racer-bodied hybrid with the normally asthmatic Cosworth in the back.
Prior to you taking over, he used to have to strip the engine after every event
(normally 45 miles, he couldn't get it to last for a National event of 70-80
miles) and change the big end bearings every time. He'd been everywhere and
tried everything (including Halfords!), and couldn't solve his problem.
First off, he was really surprised when you asked to look at the bearings, as
no-one had ever asked! He was equally surprised by your recommendation to go
thinner, and also, I have to say, worried. He equated 'thickness' with 'better
protection'. I eventually persuaded him to try Pro S 5w/40, as you suggested.
He called me to say he'd stripped the engine this week, after it's FOURTH event
(approx 200 competitive miles!), and there isn't a mark on it. He is utterly
delighted, and asked me to pass on his thanks for all your help and expertise.
I'd also like to add my thanks to you. He is extremely influential in competition circles, and is now going to tell the world and his wife what, and who, sorted this problem.
Once again, many thanks
Regards
xxxxx
Cheers
Simon
Secondy, any recomendation for an oil to use in a FWD transaxle (Nissan Sunny ZX) that has a viscous limited slip diff?? :confused:
-Eddie
Nissan Sunny ZX N13 1.8 16v (1990)
Gearbox - 80w-90 or 75w-90 (GL4)
LSD Transaxle - Limited Slip SAE 90LS
These are on my price list if you have a copy.
If not email me and I'll send you one: sales@opieoils.co.uk
Cheers
Simon
The car you refer to is Andy Burton's Peugeot Cosworth, everyone in rallying knows Andy and his cars.
The engine you refer to is a Cosworth DFV V6 2.5 built for Opel for the german touring car championship, which Andy now runs in his rally car.
He wasnt having big end bearing problems, he was wearing the camshafts and followers out prematurely due to their high lift/rpm usage.
I wouldnt use a full race NA engine as reference when choosing oil for a turbocharged engine, the requirements are quite diferent, especially in terms of coping with the heat generated in the turbo, which if driven hard needs a better oil than a 40 grade, especially if running without an oil cooler that can keep the oil temperature below 100 degrees C.
I am still thinking about this 1...Can't help thinking this guy seems to recommend the same oil for most peeps...Sorry....
Pete R
tim rome
13-07-2004, 03:36
bigger profit margin ?? hard to get in the shops so more chance of buying from him ??
just a thought
I am still thinking about this 1...Can't help thinking this guy seems to recommend the same oil for most peeps...Sorry....
Pete R
He likes Silkolene, but sells ALL brands. I know I want a good fully synthetic, it seems very good, the right price but I'll probably still use 10w50 during the summer with trackday use, and use 5w40 during the winter.
This is not quite what Simon advised, but close.
--lorien--
13-07-2004, 06:37
My two bottles of oil arrived Monday as promised! :thumbs: :)
Stevecarter200
13-07-2004, 06:43
I am still thinking about this 1...Can't help thinking this guy seems to recommend the same oil for most peeps...Sorry....
Pete R
Probably because we all drive the same cars and give them a good thrash now and then.:)
Ive just had a google and Simon appears on quite a few other forums and is not recommending Silkolene to all of them. Make your own conclusions.
Indeed, it was Andy Burton's car but I was asked not to put names onto a public forum.
Silkolene sorted his problem for him and the email thanking them merely points out two important facts.
1. Thicker is not always better depending on the quality and composition of the oil.
2. The oil lasted far better than all the others he tried.
With regards to the recommendations of mine, PRO S is perfectly suitable for road cars and is fully approved by major OEM's such as BMW, Porsche, VW, Mercedes Benz etc.
5w-40 is a good grade for "all year round", whether it be Silkolene, Total, Mobil or whatever and many car manufacturers today recommend it for this very reason.
I think those that are "having a go" should perhaps email me for a price list and they will quickly see that I sell many products apart from PRO S!
I have been asked by people what I think is the best, I've given my honest opinion, nothing to do with margins, I make the same on every brand with Club discounts but am happy to sell you whatever you want, it really doesn't bother me. ;)
Finally, you all have the same car and pretty much the same requirements barring a few exceptions so why would I recommend totally different oils?
If PRO S is good for one, it's good for another :thumbs:
Hope this clarifies my position and remember, you don't have to take my advice :wave:
Why no email me for prices? sales@opieoils.co.uk
Cheers
Simon
In general, yes synthetics will last longer, ester being the best, here's a rule of thumb. (It does depend on the quality of the oil though!) The more expensive oils with "high grade" VI improvers will last longer as the oil will last longer before "shearing" thinning down.
MC synthetic - 3000-5000 miles
POA's - 6000-8000 miles
Esters - 10000-120000 miles
Hello Mr Oilman, :wave:
I just switched to using Castrol RS 10w60 and am changing every 3000 miles as I only do lots of very short journeys, however i'm about to start a new job that means an 80 mile round trip every day :thumbs: , can you tell me is it safe to up the oil change interval and if so which category above does the Castrol RS fall into?
Thanks
Hello Mr Oilman, :wave:
I just switched to using Castrol RS 10w60 and am changing every 3000 miles as I only do lots of very short journeys, however i'm about to start a new job that means an 80 mile round trip every day :thumbs: , can you tell me is it safe to up the oil change interval and if so which category above does the Castrol RS fall into?
Thanks
3000-5000 miles as it's an HC Synthetic.
Cheers
Simon
Ahh crap, , I guess i'll be on to you for some ester syth when it's used up so :whip:
Thanks :thumbs:
Indeed, it was Andy Burton's car but I was asked not to put names onto a public forum.
Andy is the only person in the world driving that configuartion of car, so giving his car was as good as naming him, well it is to anyone who follows British Rallying. :)
With regards to the recommendations of mine, PRO S is perfectly suitable for road cars and is fully approved by major OEM's such as BMW, Porsche, VW, Mercedes Benz etc.
You have to be very careful with statements like that, for example the only oil recomended by BMW for the S54 engined vehicles is Castrol RS 10/60 which has been rebranded for BMW as Castrol TWS Motorsport 10W-60. Use any other oil and you will get very high oil use and invalidate your waranty.
What oil you choose must be based on how you use the car, what ambient temperatures you subject it to and the specific requirements of that engine. Using a 40 grade oil on some of the cars present on this BBS would not be a wise move IMHO.
You have to be very careful with statements like that, for example the only oil recomended by BMW for the S54 engined vehicles is Castrol RS 10/60 which has been rebranded for BMW as Castrol TWS Motorsport 10W-60. Use any other oil and you will get very high oil use and invalidate your waranty.
What oil you choose must be based on how you use the car, what ambient temperatures you subject it to and the specific requirements of that engine. Using a 40 grade oil on some of the cars present on this BBS would not be a wise move IMHO.
Firstly, I was referring to the approvals for the oil obviously the application depends on the manufacturers specific recommendations which can vary from model to model, year to year and based on different operating temperatures.
There are indeed a small number of BMW's (S54) that call for 10w-60 although
the majority of BMW's manufactured in the last 12 years call for 5w-40 for "all year round" use.
I totally agree with the requirements being different depending on the cars use and modifications etc but a good ester based 40 grade oil will have sufficient film strength to cope with most people's needs here as an MC/HC synthetic 10w-60 could very quickly shear down to a 50 or even 40 within a couple of thousand miles.
At the top of this thread, I tried to point out these variables in a frank and honest way and I recognise that it will always be personal choice.
The manufacturer seems to recommend a range of oils for your cars from 5w to 15w and sae 30 to 50.
Based on regular service intervals and "normal" driving however the best bet with regards to standard cars and UK weather is 10w-40 Semi or Fully Synthetic.
There are always options to consider with regards to "special requirements" if you would like to do this but you'll need further advice and.................I may have further questions for you.
5w-40 instead of 10w-40
5w offers better cold start and short journey protection as it's thinner than 10w and remember this is when 70+ percent of the engine wear occurs.
10w-50 instead of 10w-40 - 15w-50 instead of 15w-40
50 offers better protection than 40 when the engine is running hot so if you're doing track days or hard driving you may want to consider this option.
Synthetic Oils instead of Mineral Oils.
It is a fact that Semi and Fully synthetic oils are better for your car, they flow better when cold and give a greater level of protection when the engine is hot.
It is a fact, not myth that complex engines such as DOHC, Turbocharged, and Supercharged when driven hard will always have a greater degree of protection from a synthetic oil.
A synthetic oil is more robust and will last longer (that's why they cost more) mineral oils need much more frequent oil changes but they are cheaper. Semi-synthetic is to some extent the "middle ground" for pennies more than a good mineral oil.
Ester Synthetic Oils against Normal Synthetic Oils
The oils that give true benefits are ester synthetics (pretty hard to come by as they are expensive to make although Silkolene still does). The reasons for their application in motorsport and the aviation sector are clear:
They assist the additive pack in a motor oil formulation because they are surface-active (electrostatically attracted to metal surfaces), so they help to reduce wear and friction.
They are fluid at very low temperatures and at high temperatures they are very chemically stable and have low volatility (don’t evaporate away).
They also help to prevent hardening and cracking of oil seals at high temperatures.
So, there you have it, some advantages and disadvantages to consider, I'm here to give advice so please feel free to ask, I'll do my best to answer you.
As many of you will be aware, I sell the likes of Mobil 1 15w-50 Motorsport, Castrol RS 10w-60 and the Silkolene PRO S and PRO R Ester Range so I have plenty of oils to choose from. At the end of the day, I will tell you truthfully what I think are the best but you must use what you are comfortable with.
Cheers
Simon
I have taken some independent advice on this and have ordered 20 litres. I intend to flush the old stuff out using the new oil. I thought of loosening the oil filter to drain the contents but is this a good idea? Don't’ want to start circulating what the filter has caught.
Pete R
Hi Mr Oilman,
A got a S14a (as a lot of people here)...
I was particularly astonished by the contenance of the oil carter... It's just 3.5 liter (with oil filter), quite few...
I was used to take a 5w50 oil (not the last patent but the one before of mobil1, 5w50 synth) in my peugeot 206gti (L4 16v 2.0l, 100kw), as this oil seemed to be a good synth, for track and severe use. The carter was about 5.0 liters, I change the oil every 6000km (~3500miles).
Now with the nissan, I change oil every 5000km (~3000miles), because i'm afraid that the oil got used pretty faster than with 5.0 liters carter... and the turbo makes the old does wear the oil too.
What's your opinion about it?
Anyone in NorthWest want to save on postage and join the group buy .. link in sig ... we have about 20 tubs coming :D Last Week or so of orders. Mascrat Attendees only for delivery. (or by discussion with me).
I have taken some independent advice on this and have ordered 20 litres. I intend to flush the old stuff out using the new oil. I thought of loosening the oil filter to drain the contents but is this a good idea? Don't’ want to start circulating what the filter has caught.
Pete R
no don't do this
More interesting reading on oils, heavy but worth it.
Building a good oil.
It is impossible to make a good 5w-40 or even 10w-40, using only mineral oil. The base oil is so thin, it just evaporates away at the high temperatures found in a powerful engine that is being used seriously. Although there are chemical compounds in there to prevent oil breakdown by oxygen in the atmosphere (oxidation) they cannot adequately protect vulnerable mineral oil at the 130 degC plus sump temperatures found in a hard working turbocharged or re-mapped engine.
The answer to this is synthetics. They are built up from simple chemical units, brick by brick so as to speak; to make an architect designed oil with properties to suit the demands of a modern engine.
The synthetic myth
The word “synthetic” once meant the brick by brick chemical building of a designer oil but the waters were muddied by a court case that took place in the USA some years ago. The outcome was that the right to call heavily modified mineral oil “synthetic” was won. This was the marketing executives dream; the chance to use the word “synthetic” on a can of oil without spending much extra on the contents!
Most lower-cost “synthetic” or “semi-synthetic” oils use these “hydrocracked” mineral oils. They do have some advantages, particularly in commercial diesel lubricants but their value in performance engines is marginal.
TRUE synthetics are expensive and in basic terms there are three broad catagories, each containing many types and viscocity grades:-
PIB’s (Polyisobutanes)
These are occasionally used as thickeners in motor oils and gear oils, but their main application is to suppress smoke in two-strokes.
The TWO important ones are:
ESTERS
All jet engines are lubricated with synthetic “esters” and have been for more than 50 years but these expensive fluids only started to appear in petrol engine oils around 20 years ago.
Thanks to their aviation origins, the types suitable for lubricants work well from
-50 degC to 200 degC, and they have an added benefit. Due to their structure, “ester” molecules are “polar”; they stick to metal surfaces using electrostatic forces. This means that a protective layer is there at all times, even during that crucial start-up period. This helps to protect cams, gears, piston rings and valve train components, where lubrication is “boundary” rather than “hydrodynamic”, i.e. a very thin non pressure-fed film has to hold the surfaces apart.
Even crank bearings benefit at starts, stops, or when extreme shock loads upset the “hydrodynamic” film.
Synthetic Hydrocarbons or PAO’s (Poly Alpha Olefins)
These are, in effect, very precisely made equivalents to the most desirable mineral oil molecules. As with “esters” they work very well at low temperatures and equally well at high temperatures, if protected by anti-oxidants. The difference is, they are inert and not polar. In fact, on their own they are hopeless “boundary” lubricants, with less load carrying ability than a mineral oil. They depend entirely on the correct chemical enhancements.
It is a fact that “PAO’s” work best in combination with “esters”. The “esters” assist load carrying, reduce friction and cut down seal drag and wear, whilst the “PAO’s” act as solvents for the multigrade polymers and a large assortment of special compounds that act as dispersants, detergents, anti-wear and anti-oxidant agents, and foam suppressants.
Both are very good at resisting high-temperature evaporation, and the “esters” in particular will never carbonise in turbo bearings even when provoked by anti-lag systems.
So, in conclusion, Ester gives the best protection and Ester/PAO combinations have great benefits because they work well together. They are more expensive but worth it if you wish to do the best for your engine.
Cheers
Simon
At the end of the day and reading between the lines, a polyolester based full synthetic oil maintains a better film strength in extremes. It's all about temps, frequency of change & oil breakdown, I don't consider my car to be under extremes though. For road use I think the gains will be marginal :nod:
Pete R
At the end of the day and reading between the lines, a polyolester based full synthetic oil maintains a better film strength in extremes. It's all about temps, frequency of change & oil breakdown, I don't consider my car to be under extremes though. For road use I think the gains will be marginal :nod:
Pete R
I agree entirely but it's down to personal taste, price and oil change periods however, ester is what you might call the "belt and braces" choice.
Cheers
Simon
Martin T
19-07-2004, 12:45
After reading that I am curious as to what oils we can get that are ester/pao mixes as they would seem ideal for our turbocharged cars. Also what price differences are there? Using Mobil1 15W/50 or 0W/40 or Castrol RS 10W60 costs us about £35 per oil change (3.5 litres plus a filter)
For a PAO/Esther blend of the right viscosity, how mych extra would we be looking at paying (rough guides are fine :) )
After reading that I am curious as to what oils we can get that are ester/pao mixes as they would seem ideal for our turbocharged cars. Also what price differences are there? Using Mobil1 15W/50 or 0W/40 or Castrol RS 10W60 costs us about £35 per oil change (3.5 litres plus a filter)
For a PAO/Esther blend of the right viscosity, how mych extra would we be looking at paying (rough guides are fine :) )
It will cost you no more than the above mentioned oils but cannot post prices here as it was agreed that I wouldn't.
You'll need to email me for a price list.
Cheers
Simon
It will cost you no more than the above mentioned oils but cannot post prices here as it was agreed that I wouldn't.
I'll not mention prices but say that 5L of the silkolene is cheaper than 4L of Castrol RS.
Simon - Next Week I'll be ordering about 20 tubs it seems, if I order Friday does next day mean Sat Morning ?? or Monday Morning?
It means Monday Delivery.
Let me know in advance how much so that I can ensure we have enough on the shelf.
Thanks for not mentioning prices :thumbs:
Cheers
Simon
Let me know in advance how much so that I can ensure we have enough on the shelf.
Probably about 14 10w50 & 6 5w40 .....
This is probably the longest post on this Forum but certainly one of the most interesting and relevant to all Subaru or High Powered Car Owners.
It is the "FULL" unedited transcript of the article written by John Rowland (Chief R&D Chemist for Silkolene) with 40 years experience.
It is great educational reading as it is written by a Chemist, not a Salesman so totally based in facts - If you do one thing, read this, it's worth it!
I do not work for Silkolene, I'm a car enthusiast who owns an Oil Company that sells their products amongst others. I have Johns express permission to post this article to clear up as he says "the mis-information" on the internet.
Lubricating the Subaru.
Basically
Basically, to use that irritating in-word, engine lubrication is simple, and consequently boring. So I intend to treat the subject “complicatedly”, which may not be an in-word, but makes life far more interesting!
So, to take a quick look at the simple picture; the oil keeps moving parts apart, reducing friction and carrying away heat. Where there is metal-to-metal contact there are chemicals in the oil to reduce damage. Because the internal combustion process is always less than perfect, some soot is produced and this must be washed off the pistons and rings by the oil, so it has a cleaning or detergent function as well.
The trouble is, all this is just as true for Henry Ford’s original Model T engine as it is for the Subaru or any other high output motor. So where is the difference? The Model T, with 10bhp/litre at 2,000rpm and a single underhead camshaft, was filled with a thick, greenish liquid from somewhere near the bottom of the distillation colums on the Pennsylvania oilfields. It did a vague tour of the internals by guesswork (there was no oil pump) at a temperature around 50 degC, and lasted for 1,000 miles. On the plus side, some of the impurities acted as anti-wear and detergent chemicals. They didn’t work very well, but it was better than nothing. The engine wore out in around 20,000 miles, but even ordinary people, not just amateur rally drivers, were happy to put up with this.
The difference begins with the first turn of the key. The modern high-pressure pump would cavitate on the old heavy monogrades, starving the bearings for a vital couple of seconds, even in warm weather. Likewise, cam lobes would suffer as the sluggish oil found its way along narrow oil ways to the valve gear. The turbo bearing (if fitted as the handbooks say) already spinning fast, would also starve, and when it got going, how long would it be before the heat soak-back fried the primitive oil into a lump of carbon? (This was the problem with “modern” oils only 15 years ago).
So, a good oil must be quite low in viscosity even in the cold, so that it gets around the engine in a fraction of a second on start-up. On the other hand, it must protect engine components (piston rings for example) at temperatures up to 300 degC without evaporating or carbonising, and maintain oil pressure.
Unmodified thin oils simply can’t manage this balancing act. The answer is to use a mixture of thin oil and temperature-sensitive polymer, so as the thin oil gets even thinner with increasing temperatures as the engine warms up, the polymer expands and fights back, keeping the viscosity at a reasonable level to hold oil pressure and film thickness on the bearings. This is called a multigrade.
But, this is all too basic! What I have just written was and is relevant to a 1958 Morris Minor.
The questions that Subaru owners need to ask are: “Will this thin oil evaporate and be drawn into the intake manifold (via the closed circuit crankcase ventilation), leading to combustion chamber deposits and de-activated catalysts?” and “Will the polymer shear down at high engine revolutions and high temperatures, causing low oil pressure and component wear?” and “Will it carbonise on the turbo bearing?” These are 21st century questions which cannot be answered by a basic 1990’s approach.
BUT! Before we head into more complications, some figures………
The SAE Business (American Society of Automotive Engineers)
Viscosity is the force required to shear the oil at a certain speed and temperature. Oils work because they have viscosity; the drag of a rotating part pulls oil from a low-pressure area into a high pressure area and “floats” the surfaces apart. This is called “hydrodynamic lubrication”, and crank bearings depend on it. In fact a plain bearing running properly shows literally no metal-to-metal contact. Experimental set-ups have shown that electrical current will not flow from a crank main bearing to the shells. Also, the energy loss due to friction (the co-efficient of friction) is incredibly low, around 0.001. So for every kilogram pulling one way, friction fights back with one gram. This is very much better than any “dry” situation. For example, the much over-rated plastic PTFE has a co-efficient of friction on steel of 0.1, 100 times worse than oil.
Oil viscosities are accurately measured in units called “Centistokes” at exactly 100 degC. These fall into five high temperature SAE catagories:-
SAE No. 20 30 40 50 60
Viscosity Range 5.6 - <9.3 9.3 - <12.5 12.5 - <16.3 16.3 - <21.9 21.9 - <26
A decent quality oil usually has a viscosity that falls in the middle of the spec, so a SAE 40 will be about 14 Centistoke units, but SAE ratings are quite wide, so it’s possible for one 40 oil to be noticeably thicker or thinner than another.
When the polymer modified multigrades appeared, a low temperature range of tests were brought in, called “W” for winter (it doesn’t mean weight). These simulate cold starta at different non-ferrous monkey endangering temperatures from –15 degC for the 20w test to a desperate –35 degC for 0w. So, for example, an SAE 5w-40 oil is one that has a viscosity of less than 6600 units at –30 degC, and a viscosity of about 14 units at 100 degC.
Now, those of you who have been paying attention will say “Just a minute! I thought you said these multigrade polymers stopped the oil thinning down, but 6600 to 14 looks like a lot of thinning to me!”. Good point, but the oil does flow enough to allow a marginal start at –30 degC, and 14 is plenty of viscosity when the engine is running normally. (A lot more could damage the engine. Nobody uses the 24 viscosity SAE 60 oils any more.) The vital point is, a monograde 40 would be just like candle wax at –30 degC, and not much better at –10 degC. It would even give the starter motor a fairly difficult time at 0 degC. (At 0 degC, a 5w-40 has a viscosity of 800 but the monograde 40 is up at 3200!)
Another basic point about wide ranging multigrades such as 5w-40 or 0w-40 is that they save fuel at cruising speeds, and release more power at full throttle. But complications arise……..
Building a good oil
A cave may not be the best place to live, but it’s ready-made and cheap. This is the estate agent’s equivalent of an old style monograde oil. Or you could get Hengist Pod to fit a window and a door; this is moving up to a cheap and cheerful mineral 20w-50. But an architect-designed “machine for living in”, built up brick by brick, is an allegory of a high performance synthetic oil.
It is impossible to make a good 5w-40, or even 10w-40, using only mineral oil. The base oil is so thin, it just evaporates away at the high temperatures found in a powerful engine that is being used seriously. Although there are chemical compounds in there to prevent oil breakdown by oxygen in the atmosphere (oxidation) they cannot adequately protect vulnerable mineral oil at the 130 degC plus sump temperatures found in hard worked turbocharged or re-mapped engines.
Synthetics are the answer. They are built up from simple chemical units, brick by brick so as to speak; to make an architect-designed oil with properties to suit the modern engine.
But sometimes, if you look behind the façade, there is a nurky old cave at the back! This is because the marketing men have been meddling!
The Synthetic Myth
What do we mean by the word “synthetic”? Once, it meant the “brick by brick” chemical building of a designer oil, but the waters have been muddied by a court case that took place in the USA a few years ago, where the right to call heavily-modified mineral oil “synthetic”, was won. This was the answer to the ad-man’s dream; the chance to use that sexy word “synthetic” on the can….without spending much extra on the contents! Most lower cost “synthetic” or “semi-synthetic” oils use these hydrocracked mineral oils. They do have some advantages, particularly in commercial diesel lubricants, but their value in performance engines is marginal.
TRUE synthetics are expensive (about 6 times more than top quality mineral oils). Looked at non-basically there are three broad catagories, each containing dozens of types and viscosity grades:-
PIB’s (Polyisobutanes)
These are occasionally used as thickeners in motor oils and gear oils, but their main application is to suppress smoke in 2-strokes.
The two important ones are:
Esters
All jet engines are lubricated with synthetic esters, and have been for 50 years, but these expensive fluids only started to appear in petrol engine oils about 20 years ago. Thanks to their aviation origins, the types suitable for lubricants (esters also appear in perfumes; they are different!) work well from –50 degC to 200 degC, and they have a useful extra trick.
Due to their structure, ester molecules are “polar”; they stick to metal surfaces using electrostatic forces. This means that a protective layer is there at all times, even during that crucial start-up period. This helps to protect cams, gears, piston rings and valve train components, where lubrication is “boundary” rather than “hydrodynamic”, i.e. a very thin non-pressure fed film has to hold the surface apart. Even crank bearings benefit at starts, stops or when extreme shock loads upset the “hydrodynamic” film. (Are you listening, all you rally drivers and off road fanatics?)
Synthetic Hydrocarbons or POA’s (Poly Alpha Olefins)
These are, in effect, very precisely made equivalents to the most desirable mineral oil molecules. As with esters, they work very well at low temperatures, and equally well when the heat is on, if protected by anti-oxidants. The difference is, they are inert, and not polar. In fact, on their own they are hopeless “boundary” lubricants, with LESS load carrying ability than a mineral oil. They depend entirely on the correct chemical enhancements.
PAO’s work best in combination with esters. The esters assist load carrying, reduce friction, and cut down seal drag and wear, whilst the PAO’s act as solvents for the multigrade polymers and a large assortment of special compounds that act as dispersants, detergents, anti-wear and oxidant agents, and foam suppressants. Both are very good at resisting high-temperature evaporation, and the esters in particular will never carbonise in turbo bearings even when provoked by anti-lag systems.
Must Have MORE Power!
Motorcars are bought for all sorts of reasons, but enthusiasts like lots of power. To get more power, a lot of fuel must be burnt, and more than half of it, sadly, gets thrown away as waste heat. For every litre of fuel burnt, 60% of the energy goes as waste heat into the exhaust and cooling system. A turbocharger can extract a few percent as useful energy and convert it into pressure on the intake side, but only 40-45% is left, and only 25% actually shows up as BHP at the flywheel. 6% goes in pumping air into the engine, 6% as oil drag losses and 2-3% as engine friction. The oil deals with 97% of the friction; so reducing the remaining few percent is not easy. If you doubt that even ordinary oil has a massive effect, take a clean, dry 200 bhp engine, connect it to a dyno and start it up. It will only make 1 bhp for a few seconds. Now that’s real friction for you!
Oddly enough, people get starry-eyed about reducing friction, especially those half-wits who peddle silly “magic additives”, which have not the smallest effect on friction but rapidly corrode bearings and wallet contents. In fact, even a virtually impossible 50% reduction in the remaining engine friction would be no big deal, perhaps one or two bhp or a couple of extra miles per gallon.
Even More Power!
The place to look for extra power is in that 6% lost as oil drag. In a well-designed modern motor, the oil doesn’t have to cover up for wide clearances, poor oil pump capacity or flexy crankshafts, so it can be quite thin. How thin? Well take a look at these dyno results.
A while ago now, we ran three Silkolene performance oils in a Honda Blackbird motorcycle. this fearsome device is fitted with a light, compact, naturally aspirated 1100cc engine which turns out 120+ bhp at the back wheel. The normal fill for this one-year-old engine was 15w-50, so the first reading was taken using a fresh sump-fill of this grade. (The dyno was set up for EEC horsepower, i.e. Pessimistic)
15w-50
Max Power 127.9 bhp @ 9750 rpm
Torque 75.8 ft-lbs @ 7300 rpm
After a flush-out and fill up with 5w-40 the readings were;
5w-40
Max Power 131.6 bhp @ 9750 rpm
Torque 77.7 ft-lbs @ 7400 rpm
Then we tried an experimental grade, 0w-20 yes, 0w-20! This wasn’t as risky as you may think, because this grade had already done a season’s racing with the Kawasaki World Superbike Team, giving them some useful extra power with no reliability problems. (But it must be said, they were only interested in 200 frantic miles before the engines went back to Japan)
0w-20
Max Power 134.4 bhp @ 9750 rpm
Torque 78.9 ft-lbs @ 7400 rpm
In other words, 3.7 bhp / 2.9% increase from 15w-50 to 5w-40, a 2.8 bhp / 2.1% increase from 5w-40 to 0w-20 or a 6.5 bhp / 5% overall. Not bad, just for changing the oil! More to the point, a keen bike owner would have paid at least £1000 to see less improvement than this using the conventional approach of exhaust/intake mods, ignition re-mapping etc.
Am I recommending that you use 0w-20 in your Subaru’s? Well, perhaps not! The 5w-40, which is a “proper” PAO/Ester shear-stable synthetic, will look after a powerful engine better than a heavier viscosity “cave at the back” conventional oil, and provide a useful extra few BHP.
The End
However, as with all good things in life, we don’t live in a world of perfect motor cars and therefore we have to look at the lubrication trade-off between longevity, reliability, power and cost, relative to the vehicle in which the oil is being used (a scruffy old XR2i with 192,000 miles on the clockis a very different proposition to your spanking new Impreza). Which is why Subaru (and probably your local dealer) recommends a 10w-50 (Such as PRO S); you could look at a 5w-40 for competition and track-day use, but only the most committed competitor would want, or need, the 0w-20 for the extra 5% power.
Cheers
Simon
Simon please let me know what you think to the following 2 oils based on the specification I give you. It will be used in a 1.8l Turbo 620bhp that gets the t1ts thrashed off it at every opportunity. Thanks for your time.
Oil 1: -
film strength: 7
API service class: SH/CD
SAE grade: 10W/40
Viscosity @100.F: 475 SUS @40.C: 80 cSt
Pour point: -30.F
Flash point: 415.F
RPM limit: 12,000
Certification: API SH/CD
also contain rust inhibitors
Oil 2: -
film strength: 8
API service class: SH/CD
SAE grade: 20W/50
Viscosity @100.F: 900 SUS @40.C: 160 cSt
Pour point: -30.F
Flash point: 415.F
RPM limit: Unlimited
Certification: API SH/CD
also contain rust inhibitors
LOL, Richie been nicking the MOD's Oils again :D
Dave
Not quite Dave but all will be revealed soon m8. The Aviation oil used in the gas turbine engines that I work on are much too thin.
Simon please let me know what you think to the following 2 oils based on the specification I give you. It will be used in a 1.8l Turbo 620bhp that gets the t1ts thrashed off it at every opportunity. Thanks for your time.
Oil 1: -
film strength: 7
API service class: SH/CD
SAE grade: 10W/40
Viscosity @100.F: 475 SUS @40.C: 80 cSt
Pour point: -30.F
Flash point: 415.F
RPM limit: 12,000
Certification: API SH/CD
also contain rust inhibitors
Oil 2: -
film strength: 8
API service class: SH/CD
SAE grade: 20W/50
Viscosity @100.F: 900 SUS @40.C: 160 cSt
Pour point: -30.F
Flash point: 415.F
RPM limit: Unlimited
Certification: API SH/CD
also contain rust inhibitors
xxxx that's some car you have there! ;)
Is this a trick question :indiff:
My guess is that they're American, probably Royal Purple or Redline. The reason I say this is that most figures for European oils are quoted in degC. Being SH petrol spec, they are 2 behind the current API of SL.
Prey do tell, post a link for me so I can check them out. Are they PAO's, Esters or a mix? Do you have the VI Index for both?
On the viscosities and the selection, 20w-50 is probably too heavy all around, you really don't need a 20w.
10w-40 is ok but with your BHP I would consider 10w-50 or possibly 15w-50.
Sorry can't be of more help.
Cheers
Simon
No trick question m8 I just thought I would use some of your knowledge and experience to see what you think of the above based on the specification. This oil is neither of the companies that you mentioned but I have e-mailed you a link. You have probably never heard of them as their products are only really used by racing teams (NASCAR, Drag etc) in the States.
I asked John to look at the data and here is his reply.
Simon:
Everything that Klotz say about their Racing Techniplate 10W/40 and 20W/50 oils could be said about any good quality European multigrade. They are obviously mineral based, possibly with a small amount of ester to justify the ‘Techniplate’ buzz-word. (See our ‘Elecrosyntec’ and Castrol’s ‘Magnatec’!) There are 3 absurdities in the specs.: 1) Film Strength 7 or 8. Meaningless without test details. 2) RPM limit 12,000. This is defined by physics, not oil! At 12,000 a kart engine is not even trying; at 6,000 a 14 litre diesel is in kit form. 3) 60% biodegradable formula. Just about anything less inert than tungsten carbide is biodegradable if you give it long enough! Meaningless without test data and a time limit.
JR
Cheers
Simon
Hi Simon
I thought I'd read that the greater the difference between the two weight values, the poorer the oil gets in some way? Otherwise the perfect oil (for us) would surely be something like 0w50 - really thin at startup, and capable of coping with high temps.
Or am I mistaken?
(I've always put 5w40 in my 200s, although I'm going to try some 10w50 for the remainder of the summer and for at Silverstone, just to see. :) )
I thought I'd read that the greater the difference between the two weight values, the poorer the oil gets in some way? Otherwise the perfect oil (for us) would surely be something like 0w50 - really thin at startup, and capable of coping with high temps.
Or am I mistaken?
No not really, it's sort of correct.
The most difficult oils to blend successfully are ones with a wide viscosity range (5w-50, 0w-40 etc) and this can only be achieved successfully with synthetics and a very heavy slug of VI Improver to make it "stay in grade".
The problem is these oils can degrade or "shear" after a short space of time unless they are either ester blend or contain very "high grade" VI Improvers, it's an extremely fine balancing act, the additive package must be spot on!
As a rule, and there are some exceptions all 0w, 5w or 10w oils are made with synthetics to give the best cold flow and thermal stability.
Hope this helps
Simon
Simon,
I'd be interested in your recommendations for my car, probably the same as the others but figured I'd check anyway :). Please can you also PM me a price list?
91 S13
1.8 ca18det turbo'd engine (approaching 80,000 miles)
Mods include front-mounted intercooler, stage 1 chip, standard turbo albeit at 15psi. Probably around the 230bhp mark but I'd be looking at taking that over 250.
No track use but (legally) fast road use :).
Currently using Castrol RS 10w60.
Mart,
I would recommend that you consider the Silkolene Pro S 10w-50 over the Castrol 10w-60, the reasons for this are:
The point about 10w-60 and 10w-50 is Heavily modified or performance engines, especially turbocharged, need a heat resistant PAO/ester/stable VI improver synthetic. (More important than the actual viscosity rating.)
A non-ester 10w-60, after a thousand miles or so, (much less in competition use) will be thinner than an ester 10w-50.
In other words what started life as a 10w-60 could actually be a 10w-40 within a short space of time. It's the use that sorts the oil out!
Regarding prices you will need to e-mail me for full price list at sales@opieoils.co.uk
Tech specs on the recomended oil here http://www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm
Cheers
Simon.
what started life as a 10w-60 could actually be a 10w-40 within a short space of time......which might be better than the 10w60 for the engine, anyway! ;) :wack:
On that note, do you think 10w50 or 10w60 for that matter would be too high a viscosity or is a thicker oil better for the older S13 engines?
On that note, do you think 10w50 or 10w60 for that matter would be too high a viscosity or is a thicker oil better for the older S13 engines?
10w-60 is too thick but 10w-50 would be fine for you.
Cheers
Simon
Hi simon just a quicky Ive got ca18 109000 fmic std turbo running approx 200 bhp the prev owners have using 5w40 f. syn for about 4years in this car would I need to change as I used to use 15w50w in my old car I await with anticipation
andypat
Would stick to 5w-40, 10w-40 or 10w-50.
Hope this helps,
Cheers
Simon
Hi Simon i would like your recommendation on some oil for my motor
S14
Year, 95
Engine Size, 2.0
Engine Type, SR20DET
Any Mods, Stage 1 chip, boost controller set at 1 bar,air filtter,exhaust with decat, walbro fuel pump
Type of driving, i do about 10 to 20 miles a day and i don't take it easy all the time ;) its got 138k on the engine, i've only had it 4 weeks so i want to give it a good oil change
Thanks Lee
Hi Simon i would like your recommendation on some oil for my motor
S14
Year, 95
Engine Size, 2.0
Engine Type, SR20DET
Any Mods, Stage 1 chip, boost controller set at 1 bar,air filtter,exhaust with decat, walbro fuel pump
Type of driving, i do about 10 to 20 miles a day and i don't take it easy all the time ;) its got 138k on the engine, i've only had it 4 weeks so i want to give it a good oil change
Thanks Lee
Lee,
I would stick to a good quality fully synthetic 5w-40, 10w-40 or 10w-50 depending on your style of driving. We have dealt with quite a few 200SX's and the general trend is towards the ester based Silkolene Pro S 10w-50 as most of these cars are modified and driven quite hard.
If you read through this thread you will see what the benefits of ester are.
Any further questions just ask. :thumbs:
Hope this helps.
Guy.
Thanks Guy, i think i've read it but i can't remember,
Memory like a gold fish :D
Super interesting all of this!
Another point mr. Oilman might have some knowledge about:
When changing the oilfilter I always fill the oilfilter. Is this actually important? It doesnt seem to be done and actually I hate doing this as there's always a little comming out when fitting it back. My view is just that this will ensure a constant flow off oil after first startup after changing the filter.
Is this correct or does it hardly make a difference?
Super interesting all of this!
Another point mr. Oilman might have some knowledge about:
When changing the oilfilter I always fill the oilfilter. Is this actually important? It doesnt seem to be done and actually I hate doing this as there's always a little comming out when fitting it back. My view is just that this will ensure a constant flow off oil after first startup after changing the filter.
Is this correct or does it hardly make a difference?
Oliver,
Good point and interesting question. Im not too sure on this one off the top of my head. Leave it with me and I will talk to the techy boys this week and get back to you.
Cheers
Guy
Your wisdom is sought due to me being more intent on maintaining more control over what goes into my pride and joy :notworthy
Make Nissan
Model 200sx
Year 2000
Engine Size 2.0
Engine Type SR20DET
Any Mods Air Filter, Decat, Zorst, Boost @ 1 Bar, FMIC, walbro fuel pump
Type of driving Mainly fast road, plus some shorter (5 mile ish trips), do tend to rag it quite a bit though :D
The oil you currently use No idea as its normally serviced by Nissan so whatever filth they have been filling it with :rolleyes:
Thankyou, will drop you an email for price list too :thumbs:
Your wisdom is sought due to me being more intent on maintaining more control over what goes into my pride and joy :notworthy
Make Nissan
Model 200sx
Year 2000
Engine Size 2.0
Engine Type SR20DET
Any Mods Air Filter, Decat, Zorst, Boost @ 1 Bar, FMIC, walbro fuel pump
Type of driving Mainly fast road, plus some shorter (5 mile ish trips), do tend to rag it quite a bit though :D
The oil you currently use No idea as its normally serviced by Nissan so whatever filth they have been filling it with :rolleyes:
The oil we have been recomending for most of the 200SX's is a 5w-40 or 10w-50 depending on preference or application. Most of these cars have been modified like yours and require a shear stable oil, like an ester. We have the Silkolene Pro S products that cover this application.
As you often do shortish trips a 5w-40 might be the better option to provide you with better cold start protection.
Look forward to your e-mail.
Cheers
Guy.
kirkster
02-08-2004, 09:58
Hi Oilman :)
I use Royal Purple Racing 41 engine oil and their Max Gear oils in my diff and gearbox.
What are you opinions on these oils, I think they are ester based.
I only change my engine oil every 12,000 miles on their recommendation and when I do change it looks virutally as clean as when it went in.
I've also found, or think, that it has kept my oil temps down when the car is being used on the track.
Thanks,
Kirky. :thumbs:
Hi Oilman :)
I use Royal Purple Racing 41 engine oil and their Max Gear oils in my diff and gearbox.
What are you opinions on these oils, I think they are ester based.
I only change my engine oil every 12,000 miles on their recommendation and when I do change it looks virutally as clean as when it went in.
I've also found, or think, that it has kept my oil temps down when the car is being used on the track.
Thanks,
Kirky. :thumbs:
Kirky,
As far as I am aware the Royal Purple is an ester based oil, we dont have much technical information on Royal Purple so cant judge it fairly, however being a US made oil you might like to consider this.
It may be best that all fans of U.S. oils close their ears or look away at this point, you may not like what you read!
Some basics first.
A good oil must be quite low in viscosity even in the cold, so that it gets around the engine in a fraction of a second on start-up. On the other hand, it must also protect engine components (piston rings for example) at temperatures up to 300 deg C without evaporating or carbonising, and maintain oil pressure.
Unmodified thin oils simply can't manage this balancing act. The answer is to use a mixture of thin oil and temperature sensitive polymer, so as the thin oil gets even thinner with increasing temperatures as the engine warms up, the polymer expands and fights back, keeping the viscosity at a reasonable level to hold oil pressure and film thickness on the bearings.
All oils have a viscosity index which is the number indicating that rate of change in viscosity of an oil within a given temperature range. Higher numbers indicate a low change, lower numbers indicate a relatively large change. The higher the number the better. This is one major property of an oil that keeps your bearings happy. These numbers can only be compared within a viscosity range (10w-40 vs 10w-40) but here it the important thing...............
They do not give an indication of how well the oil resists thermal breakdown! (The oil film tearing or shearing)
This is all down to a very important additive called a Viscosity Index improver and it is critical that this is shear stable.
VI improvers like all other things in life vary in quality and this is down to cost and availability.
In other words, an oil can look great on paper and make impressive claims but, unless all the components are of high quality it will fail to perform under the most arduous conditions.
I asked John Rowland the Silkolene/Fuchs Chief R&D Chemist for 40 years to give me his opinion on U.S. oils for another car club and below was his reply:
Quote:
Guy,
The main problem with the majority of American Oils is that they have “low grade" Viscosity improvers in them. Good ones are just not available in the states due to the fact that they are just not required for the majority of American engines.
The consequence of this is, although the oils look good on paper with high VI indexes etc the low grade inprovers mean that they have a tendency to "shear down" causing a lack of oil pressure , after a couple of thousand miles hard use in a stressed engine. .
For example, the oil you are using may be a 10w-40 when first put in but could be operating as a 10W/20 after a few thousand miles! It’s the use that sorts them out.
JR
Unquote:
I was intrigued by Johns answer and wanted to know how he knew it was the case in the U.S. that good quality VI improvers were not available. His reply was as follows:
Quote:
We have found it is impossible to source shear stable VI improvers
in the U.S.A. even for ready money!
Unquote:
Bear in mind here that Fuchs/Silkolene is the largest independent Lube Oil Manufacturer in the World and has facilities in the U.S.
Mis-information abounds in the oil world and looking behind the marketing hype and claims is impossible unless of course you are a chemist and able to look deep into the oils make-up which neither you nor I can do!
Hope you find this interesting.
Cheers
Guy. :)
kirkster
02-08-2004, 11:03
http://www.royalpurple.com/techa/whyrpa.html
Some info here mate. :thumbs:
http://www.royalpurple.com/techa/whyrpa.html
Some info here mate. :thumbs:
Cheers for that.
We have had a look their, but they dont provide the tech data needed for a comparison.
The only real way to tell is to have a lab report done on it. Send me a sample and I will have it analysed.
Cheers
Guy. :)
kirkster
02-08-2004, 11:22
The only real way to tell is to have a lab report done on it. Send me a sample and I will have it analysed
Will do. How much oil do you need, and I take it you'll need it taken when its warm right?
Kirky. :thumbs:
Will do. How much oil do you need, and I take it you'll need it taken when its warm right?
Kirky. :thumbs:
Excellent,
We are testing Redline as well, the results should be interesting.
All I need is around a spice jar full and it does not have to be warm, you can take it straight form the container or sump.
Send to: Opie Oils
The Fuel Depot
Cardrew Way
Cardrew Industrial Estate
Redruth
Cornwall
TR15 1SS
Look forward to recieving it.
Cheers
Guy.
kirkster
02-08-2004, 12:08
All I need is around a spice jar full and it does not have to be warm, you can take it straight form the container or sump.
Bit confused now, do you want used oil or fresh. Don't mind either way what I send to you mate.
Bit confused now, do you want used oil or fresh. Don't mind either way what I send to you mate.
Sorry, fresh would better.
Cheers
Guy.
next day delivery too :thumbs:
lets hope Silkolene is good stuff, it can't be anyworse than the tar like crap thats in it atm.
cheers, Tom.
next day delivery too :thumbs:
lets hope Silkolene is good stuff, it can't be anyworse than the tar like crap thats in it atm.
cheers, Tom.
Silkolene is the good stuff :nod: :nod: :nod:
Guy.
Good point and interesting question. Im not too sure on this one off the top of my head. Leave it with me and I will talk to the techy boys this week and get back to you.
Cheers
Guy[/QUOTE]
Looking forward to your reply Oilman!
I'd be interested in how Royal Purple makes out too, as a there seems to be quite a split between those that swear by it / at it.
The only info I've ever seen on RP was in Bell's "Forced Induction Performance Tuning" :notworthy where in an engine test against other oils on a dyno it came out near the top, with only Mobil 0W-40 making better power.
However he goes on to say "Royal Purple doesn not state a viscosity rating, but lab testing shows it to be in the 0W-20 to 0W-30 range." which worries me a little :eek:
Cheers
Papa Lazarou
04-08-2004, 19:51
How can you sell an oil without a viscosity rating? :confused:
"Royal Purple doesn not state a viscosity rating
1.
Follow manufacturers recommendations for viscosity.
Available in SAE 30, 40, 50, 5W20, 5W30, 10W30, 10W40, 15W40 and 20W50
.
http://www.royalpurple.com/techa/whichoil.html
:confused:
Simon I also want to ask, in Classic cars some companies have special oils for these older design engines, does this mean you could not use synthetic oils in these cars?
Simon I also want to ask, in Classic cars some companies have special oils for these older design engines, does this mean you could not use synthetic oils in these cars?
Mark,
Pre 1950's when the technology was not around to make a multigrade, let alone a synthetic, they used monograde oils. Instead of a 20w-40 they just had a straight 40. Because this was all that was available at the time the built the engine to suit, large oil ways etc. Post 1950's thay started to develop multigrades, as these oils developed, the engines developed with them until present day.
Saying that some classic car owners have used semi or fully synthetic without problems. However its not common.
Hope this clarifies.
Cheers
Simon. :thumbs:
kirkster
05-08-2004, 08:29
Royal Purple doesn not state a viscosity rating
I use 10W 40 mate. :thumbs:
Ooops, should have checked their website. :D
It will be interesting to see the results in any case.
(I've never seen so many people misquote a quote before :p )
Cheers
Evan Jones
06-08-2004, 12:24
Where do you get this Royal Purple stuff in the UK ? (if it should come out ahead of the Silkolene when tested...)
And how much is it.... ? Arm and a leg or just an arm and a foot or so....
Where do you get this Royal Purple stuff in the UK ? (if it should come out ahead of the Silkolene when tested...)
And how much is it.... ? Arm and a leg or just an arm and a foot or so....
Arm and a Leg for sure :)
kirkster
06-08-2004, 14:03
Arm and a Leg for sure :)
:nod:
Just cost me nearly £90 for 6 quarts :(
Thought this would be of interest:
Surely the thicker the oil the better!
This isn't always true - even when using a petroleum oil. Although it is true that
heavier viscosity oils (which are generally thought of as being thicker) will hold up better under heavy loads and high temperatures, this doesn't necessarily make them a better choice for all applications.
On many newer vehicles only 0w-40, 5w40 or 10w40 engine oils are recommended by the
manufacturer. If you choose to use a higher viscosity oil than what is recommended, at the very least you are likely to reduce performance of the engine. Fuel economy will likely go down and engine performance will drop.
In the winter months it is highly recommended that you not use a heavier grade oil than what is recommended by the manufacturer. In cold start conditions you could very well be causing more engine wear than when using a lighter viscosity oil. In the summer months, going to a heavier grade is less of an issue, but there are still some things to be aware of.
Moving one grade up from the recommended viscosity is not likely to cause any problems (say from a 10w40 to a 10w50 oil). The differences in pumping and flow resitance will be slight. Although, efficiency of the engine will decrease, the oil will likely still flow adequately through the engine to maintain proper protection. However, it will not likely protect any better than the lighter weight oil recommended by the manufacturer.
Moving two grades up from the recommended viscosity (say 10w40 to 10w-60) is a little more extreme and could cause long term engine damage if not short term. Although the oil will still probably flow ok through the engine, it is a heavier visocosity oil. As such it will be more difficult to pump the oil through the engine. More friction will be present than with a lighter viscosity oil. More friction will be present than with a lighter viscosity oil. More friction means more heat. In other words, by going to a thicker oil in the summer months, you may actually be causing more heat build-up within the engine. You'll still be providing adequate protection from metal to metal contact in the engine by going with a high viscosity, but the higher viscosity will raise engine temperatures.
In the short run, this is no big deal. However, over the long term, when engine components are run at higher temperatures, they WILL wear out more quickly. As such, if you intend on
keeping the vehicle for awhile, keep this in mind if you're considering using a heavier weight oil than the manufacturer recommends.
The best advice is to is to stay away from viscosity grades that are not mentioned in your owner's manual.
Cheers
Simon
Papa Lazarou
06-08-2004, 21:13
:nod:
Just cost me nearly £90 for 6 quarts :(
A Quart being 0.95 Litres...
It better be good at that price!!
Interesting Simon, I have the 80 litres of Silkolene Pro S that SM ordered here and it's interesting that most people went for the 10W50. I bought 20L of the 5W40 which was included in the delivery. Since my car is only for road use I am glad I went for the lower viscosity :)
Oh and Simon delivered the oil as promised :thumbs: :Plug:
Pete R
A Quart being 0.95 Litres...
It better be good at that price!!
OMG why pay that when Silkolene PRO S is better and cheaper!
Cheers
Simon
Oh and Simon delivered the oil as promised :thumbs: :Plug:
Pete R
Cheers Simon,
NW/Mascrat order arrived Thursday as promised :D
Ready to dish out on Monday at the Mascrat Meet :thumbs:
Pete:
I'll be using 5w40 in winter & no trackdays, and the 10w50 during summer when it will be running on the tarck.
Right ive read this through amongst other "What oil should I use" threads and to say the least im bloody confused.
My car is a 1990 G reg prefacelift S13 with 100k on the clocks.
Ive literally just finished an oil change using Castrol GTX 10w40, now im being told its the wrong oil?
Can someone PLEASE give me a straight answer on this.
WHAT OIL SHOULD I USE?
Cars with 100k I would think will need a thicker oil than a new one?
superclarkey
08-08-2004, 12:30
Make Nissan
Model S13
Year 1983
Engine Size 1.8
Engine Type DOHC Turbocharged inline 4 clylinder
Any Mods Few
Type of driving (track or just road etc) road/track
The oil you currently use (make and grade) Mobile 15w50
Right ive read this through amongst other "What oil should I use" threads and to say the least im bloody confused.
My car is a 1990 G reg prefacelift S13 with 100k on the clocks.
Ive literally just finished an oil change using Castrol GTX 10w40, now im being told its the wrong oil?
Can someone PLEASE give me a straight answer on this.
WHAT OIL SHOULD I USE?
Cars with 100k I would think will need a thicker oil than a new one?
Mav,
The Grade you are using is fine, you could move to a 5w-40 if you wanted better cold start protection(road use/short journeys) or a 10w-50 if you are giving the car a workout on the tract etc.
The question is here you could be using a much better quality of oil than what you are using currently.
Cheers
Simon.
Better quality?
Its Castrol, they are supposed to be one of the best arent they?
superclarkey
08-08-2004, 18:17
I use 15w50 mobile as i find it can handel the temps better and keeps them lower, the 10w40 was rubbish and temps where rising over 130 degrees, with 15w50 and oil cooler and thermostat was keep the temp down to about (85)90-100 degrees.
Change oil every 2000k-2500k depending on how hard i've been driving it.
always let the car idle till warm.
I dont idle till warm but I do stay off boost and I always let the engine idl;e for a while before shutting down.
superclarkey
08-08-2004, 18:22
Well i normaly give it 5 mins before i pull off, try not to give it too much load untill oil is up too temp.
I never load it up when cold mate, always drive it real gentle until she is up to temp.
Better quality?
Its Castrol, they are supposed to be one of the best arent they?
Yes Castrol do some good oils, however the GTX is just a mineral oil, you could go better with a semisynthetic or better still for your car a fully synthetic.
Cheers
Guy. :)
Hi Oilman :thumbs: Just wondered if you could supply a friend of mine with some info on the type of oil he should be using - here's the rundown :)
Make - Lancia
Model - Delta HF Integrale 16v
Year - 1989
Engine Size - 1995cc
Engine Type - Turbocharged
Any Mods - Evo engineering chip, increased boost, Gp N Headgasket set
Type of driving (track or just road etc) - Just road use, some fast road but mainly poodling on motorway miles
The oil you currently use (make and grade) - only recently purchased and understood to have 10/40 fully sinth of unknown brand in there at present - obviously looking to do an oil change to a trusted source asap :thumbs:
Many thanks :)
Arry
Edited to add its on about 65,000 miles at present :)
Hi Oilman :thumbs: Just wondered if you could supply a friend of mine with some info on the type of oil he should be using - here's the rundown :)
Make - Lancia
Model - Delta HF Integrale 16v
Year - 1989
Engine Size - 1995cc
Engine Type - Turbocharged
Any Mods - Evo engineering chip, increased boost, Gp N Headgasket set
Type of driving (track or just road etc) - Just road use, some fast road but mainly poodling on motorway miles
The oil you currently use (make and grade) - only recently purchased and understood to have 10/40 fully sinth of unknown brand in there at present - obviously looking to do an oil change to a trusted source asap :thumbs:
Many thanks :)
Arry
Edited to add its on about 65,000 miles at present :)
Arry,
Always wanted one of these!! :thumbs:
Lancia recomend a 15w-40 or 10w-40 grade oil. They primarily recomend semisynthetic oils. You can use fully synth though.
Take a Look at the folloowing,
Fuchs Titan XTR 10w-40 semisynthetic
Castrol Performance 10w-40 semisynthetic
Total Quartz 7000 10w-40 semisynthetic.
or
Fuchs Titan Unic Plus 10w-40 fully synthetic
Mobil 1 Motor Sport 15w-50 fully synthetic
Silkolene Pro S 10w-50 ester fully synthetic
Hope this helps
Cheers
Simon.
Nice one :thumbs: Cheers Oilman :)
I have been using Castrol Formula R 0-40w oil, but have just on my last oil change switched to Castrol Formula R 5-30w. I don't notice any difference at all.
Does anyone else use or recommend the 5-30w viscousity?
Does anyone else use or recommend the 5-30w viscousity?
General opinion is that -40 is the minimum required for our turbo cars, and -50 if on the track.
General opinion is that -40 is the minimum required for our turbo cars, and -50 if on the track.
Yep, I agree. You may find an SEA30 too thin, stick with the SEA40 or SEA50. :thumbs:
Simon,
I was thinking of getting a 10w 50 or 10w 60 for the 200 in the next week or so.
It's a 37k S14a with about 300bhp (265 at the hubs)
Standard turbo.
De-catted
1.25bar boost
What do you think?
*** :nod:
Simon,
I was thinking of getting a 10w 50 or 10w 60 for the 200 in the next week or so.
It's a 37k S14a with about 300bhp (265 at the hubs)
Standard turbo.
De-catted
1.25bar boost
What do you think?
*** :nod:
Good idea to go for a 10w-50, make sure its a good one (I can help with that) however the 10w-60 is just too thick. There are only two BMW engines which take this oil and old 50's style V8s.
On many newer vehicles only 0w-40, 5w40 or 10w40 engine oils are recommended by the manufacturer. If you choose to use a higher viscosity oil than what is recommended, at the very least you are likely to reduce performance of the engine. Fuel economy will likely go down and engine performance will drop.
Moving one grade up from the recommended viscosity is not likely to cause any problems (say from a 10w40 to a 10w50 oil). The differences in pumping and flow resitance will be slight. Although, efficiency of the engine will decrease, the oil will likely still flow adequately through the engine to maintain proper protection. However, it will not likely protect any better than the lighter weight oil recommended by the manufacturer.
Moving two grades up from the recommended viscosity (say 10w40 to 10w-60) is a little more extreme and could cause long term engine damage if not short term. Although the oil will still probably flow ok through the engine, it is a heavier visocosity oil. As such it will be more difficult to pump the oil through the engine. More friction will be present than with a lighter viscosity oil. More friction will be present than with a lighter viscosity oil. More friction means more heat. In other words, by going to a thicker oil in the summer months, you may actually be causing more heat build-up within the engine. You'll still be providing adequate protection from metal to metal contact in the engine by going with a high viscosity, but the higher viscosity will raise engine temperatures.
In the short run, this is no big deal. However, over the long term, when engine components are run at higher temperatures, they WILL wear out more quickly. As such, if you intend on keeping the vehicle for awhile, keep this in mind if you're considering using a heavier weight oil than the manufacturer recommends.
Hope this helps,
Cheers
Simon.
Thanks mate,
I hadn't planned on going for a thicker oil, I've got my numbers mixed up. I thoguht the 'w' number was the viscosity and the other number was it's tolerance to heat (ie ability to keep it's viscosity the same under hot engine conditions)
I guess I've got that wrong :rolleyes:
All I want to do is use a high quality ester based oil that will suit fast road and occasional track use.
Would I be better off with a 10w 40 or 5w 40?
And if so which one
Cheers *** :thumbs:
Good idea to go for a 10w-50, make sure its a good one (I can help with that) however the 10w-60 is just too thick. There are only two BMW engines which take this oil and old 50's style V8s.
On many newer vehicles only 0w-40, 5w40 or 10w40 engine oils are recommended by the manufacturer. If you choose to use a higher viscosity oil than what is recommended, at the very least you are likely to reduce performance of the engine. Fuel economy will likely go down and engine performance will drop.
Moving one grade up from the recommended viscosity is not likely to cause any problems (say from a 10w40 to a 10w50 oil). The differences in pumping and flow resitance will be slight. Although, efficiency of the engine will decrease, the oil will likely still flow adequately through the engine to maintain proper protection. However, it will not likely protect any better than the lighter weight oil recommended by the manufacturer.
Moving two grades up from the recommended viscosity (say 10w40 to 10w-60) is a little more extreme and could cause long term engine damage if not short term. Although the oil will still probably flow ok through the engine, it is a heavier visocosity oil. As such it will be more difficult to pump the oil through the engine. More friction will be present than with a lighter viscosity oil. More friction will be present than with a lighter viscosity oil. More friction means more heat. In other words, by going to a thicker oil in the summer months, you may actually be causing more heat build-up within the engine. You'll still be providing adequate protection from metal to metal contact in the engine by going with a high viscosity, but the higher viscosity will raise engine temperatures.
In the short run, this is no big deal. However, over the long term, when engine components are run at higher temperatures, they WILL wear out more quickly. As such, if you intend on keeping the vehicle for awhile, keep this in mind if you're considering using a heavier weight oil than the manufacturer recommends.
Hope this helps,
Cheers
Simon.
***,
Sorry mate, may have gone on about 10w-60 a bit there :rant: :rant:
The first number with the W next to it is the viscosity of the oil when cold. W stands for winter, the lower the number the thinner it is. The second number is the viscosity of the oil when hot, the higher the number the thicker it is.
For you I would go for the Silkolene Pro S 10w-50 it is an ester based oil that will suit your needs down to the ground.
Cheers
Simon. :thumbs:
mambastu
17-08-2004, 21:38
Hi Simon,
Make - Nissan
Model - 200SX RS13
Year - Car 1991, Engine 1995 but 3,000 to 4,000 miles since re-build
Engine Size - 2499cc 6 cylinder
Engine Type - RB25DET(T)
Any Mods - Twin Turbo conversion at 1 bar, ported head, front mount intercooler, E-manage, 550cc injectors, Z32 AFM, 19 row oil cooler with thermostatic plate, high capacity alloy radiator.
Type of driving (track or just road etc) - Road and trackdays
The oil you currently use (make and grade) - Mobile 1 15/50
***,
Sorry mate, may have gone on about 10w-60 a bit there :rant: :rant:
The first number with the W next to it is the viscosity of the oil when cold. W stands for winter, the lower the number the thinner it is. The second number is the viscosity of the oil when hot, the higher the number the thicker it is.
For you I would go for the Silkolene Pro S 10w-50 it is an ester based oil that will suit your needs down to the ground.
Cheers
Simon. :thumbs:
Thanks mate :thumbs:
All makes sense now :D
I'll give you a ring later today, I'll need to order some oil
***
Simon
What oil do you recommend in the box of a S14???? is any 75w-90 ok? I currently use Fords own again (i get it at a favourable price) in mine but recently had my box fail. Was just wondering if the wrong oil could have been a factor :confused:
Year: 1992
Engine: ca18det 1850 ccs rebored, 7.5:1 cr
Ideal Boost: 25 psi
Ideal Power: 300-350 bhp @ flywheel
original mileage: 110K
mileage since rebuild: 3K
new oil pump.
Which oil should I be using ? :)
Hi Simon,
Make - Nissan
Model - 200SX RS13
Year - Car 1991, Engine 1995 but 3,000 to 4,000 miles since re-build
Engine Size - 2499cc 6 cylinder
Engine Type - RB25DET(T)
Any Mods - Twin Turbo conversion at 1 bar, ported head, front mount intercooler, E-manage, 550cc injectors, Z32 AFM, 19 row oil cooler with thermostatic plate, high capacity alloy radiator.
Type of driving (track or just road etc) - Road and trackdays
The oil you currently use (make and grade) - Mobile 1 15/50
You are using a good oil there mate. With the modds you have made and style of driving the grade is spot on too, maybe a 10w-50 if you are using on the road as well.
Mobil 1 is a top quality PAO synthetic, The Silkolene Pro S only tops it because it is ester based(polar)
:Plug: Next oil change, give me shout for prices.
Cheers
Simon.
Simon
What oil do you recommend in the box of a S14???? is any 75w-90 ok? I currently use Fords own again (i get it at a favourable price) in mine but recently had my box fail. Was just wondering if the wrong oil could have been a factor :confused:
Mark,
The S14 calls for a 80w-90, so a good 75w-90 would be fine. I do not know if the oil you were using was a factor, if it was it might be because it is ford branded and likley to be made to a cost. We stock the a choice of fully and semisynthetic gear oils.
Go for a good quality brand 75w-90 and you should have no problems.
Cheers
Simon.
Year: 1992
Engine: ca18det 1850 ccs rebored, 7.5:1 cr
Ideal Boost: 25 psi
Ideal Power: 300-350 bhp @ flywheel
original mileage: 110K
mileage since rebuild: 3K
new oil pump.
Which oil should I be using ? :)
With these mods you need to go for a top quality fully synthetic.
If you use the car on the road a lot, commute etc, go for the Silkolene Pro S 5w-40, if you give it a lot of stick and have track use go for the Silkolene Pro S 10w-50 or the Mobil 1 15w-50.
E-mail me for prices.
Cheers
Simon.
Considering your advice that a thicker oil will cause more heat within the engine, would the Silkolene Pro S 5w40 not be the ideal choice on track / drifting as well? And if you think the Pro R 10w50 would stand up to this kind of abuse better, would the Pro S 5w40 still be up to the job or should not be used in this scenario.
Consider this..... I have (had shortly) a '94 S13 (1.8 turbo) with enough mods to see around 280bhp from an engine that in standard form pushes 170bhp. This is a similar story for many of the guys from the Scottish contingent of the SXOC, some also with similarly powered S14a's. The general consensus among us has been Castrol RS 10w60 is the only oil to use, it's quite literally been sworn by up until now.
Considering the S13 especially with its low oil capacity of 3.5 litres and legendary prone-ness to big end bearing failure (some of us think is primarily due to the strainer on the oil pickup being a poor design which easily gets blocked and leads to oil starvation which takes it's toll on the big ends mainly), is this a bad oil to use? And would you say we would see better protection and higher power output from either one of your Ester based Silkolene oils?
Which one would you recommend for those of us who like to drift these cars on a small circuit every other weekend which sees many of us constantly around 7,000RPM in 2nd gear? And would it be the same recommendation for those that also like to do trackday stuff mainly at Knockhill circuit. As a side note, what is your view on deliberately overfilling the oil before a trackday to help prevent oil starvation during hard cornering?
TIA and sorry for all the Q's at once,
Brian.
Get_Real
18-08-2004, 10:00
hi Simon,
seems you're the man in the know!!! :thumbs:
I have an S15 Spec-R auto (yeah yeah, i know! :ghey: but much better for london driving!).
Specs:
Nissan S15 Spec-R 1999
Engine: SR20DET
Automatic Transmission
Mileage: 26500miles
Mods: Full de-cat exhaust system, Induction Kit, AVC-R, DumpValve
Driving: Very Short journeys during the week and slightly longer during the weekend.
What's the best engine and gearbox oil to use? And how much are they?
Cheers,
aLeX
Considering your advice that a thicker oil will cause more heat within the engine, would the Silkolene Pro S 5w40 not be the ideal choice on track / drifting as well? And if you think the Pro R 10w50 would stand up to this kind of abuse better, would the Pro S 5w40 still be up to the job or should not be used in this scenario.
Consider this..... I have (had shortly) a '94 S13 (1.8 turbo) with enough mods to see around 280bhp from an engine that in standard form pushes 170bhp. This is a similar story for many of the guys from the Scottish contingent of the SXOC, some also with similarly powered S14a's. The general consensus among us has been Castrol RS 10w60 is the only oil to use, it's quite literally been sworn by up until now.
Considering the S13 especially with its low oil capacity of 3.5 litres and legendary prone-ness to big end bearing failure (some of us think is primarily due to the strainer on the oil pickup being a poor design which easily gets blocked and leads to oil starvation which takes it's toll on the big ends mainly), is this a bad oil to use? And would you say we would see better protection and higher power output from either one of your Ester based Silkolene oils?
Which one would you recommend for those of us who like to drift these cars on a small circuit every other weekend which sees many of us constantly around 7,000RPM in 2nd gear? And would it be the same recommendation for those that also like to do trackday stuff mainly at Knockhill circuit. As a side note, what is your view on deliberately overfilling the oil before a trackday to help prevent oil starvation during hard cornering?
TIA and sorry for all the Q's at once,
Brian.
Brian,
The Pro S 5w-40 is a very capable synthetic, there are many WRX rally cars out there winning races on it, however if you are drifting you will need to focus on prtection when hot and pushed to the limit, considering this I would go for the 10w-50 as the SEA50 will give you this added protection over the SEA40.
As the Pro S is an ester based oil and therefor polar, this in conjucntion with its film strewngth should help to prevent oil starvation in heavy cornering.
Allow me to have another rant about 10w-60 :rant: , I feel for any engine that has to pump this treacle around, think of all the energy your engine has to sap from elswhere to do this. yes it will generate excess heat, which is not good considering even though they say it is fully synthetic, it is not. The Castrol 10w-60 is a hydrocracted mineral oil and not synthetic at all, this will result in a lower flash point and greater chance of shearing down under load.
With these tuned turbo engines being pushed hard the 10w-60 may be prone to carbonising as well.
For you it would have to be the Pro S 10w-50.
Cheers
Simon.
Brian,
For you it would have to be the Pro S 10w-50.
Cheers
Simon.
Thanks for the advice Simon :)
I see the RS 10w60 isn't your favourite of the Castrol oil range? In general, it could be said your opinion of this particular oil is very low?
What would you recommend for drag racing every few weekends with a road car that usually pootles about town and occasionally has a backroad blast. Car in question is a ST205 Celica GT-4 with around 310bhp. Has been using a 5w40 fully synth up until now from vauxhall as it can be had cheap at trade prices.
Cheers,
Brian.
mambastu
18-08-2004, 18:22
You are using a good oil there mate. With the modds you have made and style of driving the grade is spot on too, maybe a 10w-50 if you are using on the road as well.
Mobil 1 is a top quality PAO synthetic, The Silkolene Pro S only tops it because it is ester based(polar)
:Plug: Next oil change, give me shout for prices.
Cheers
Simon.
Thanks Simon, I'll be in touch in the future :thumbs:
Simon....
I have done the oil flush using the Silkolene as you recommended and the oil seems to have stayed cleaner for longer :thumbs: I transplanted the flushing oil into the wife's car though :wack: J reg carina :hurl: on Ester Synth http://ses.klan-host.com/Petrol/gifani/rofl.gif
Since the flush I have noticed that the VVT rattle is not quite as prominent on the 200 - Bonus!
Can you tell me what Honda recommend for the diff oil in an S2000? It seems one or two of the diffs have failed and there is some controversy as to what oil should be used.
Thanks
Pete R
Simon....
I have done the oil flush using the Silkolene as you recommended and the oil seems to have stayed cleaner for longer :thumbs: I transplanted the flushing oil into the wife's car though :wack: J reg carina :hurl: on Ester Synth http://ses.klan-host.com/Petrol/gifani/rofl.gif
Since the flush I have noticed that the VVT rattle is not quite as prominent on the 200 - Bonus!
Can you tell me what Honda recommend for the diff oil in an S2000? It seems one or two of the diffs have failed and there is some controversy as to what oil should be used.
Thanks
Pete R
Pete,
As far as I can tell the S2000 requires an EP80w-90 diff oil. the EP stands for extreme pressure. There are no other special requirements for it. Previous diifs may have failed if they were not using an EP diff oil.
Cheers
Simon.
Thanks for the advice Simon :)
I see the RS 10w60 isn't your favourite of the Castrol oil range? In general, it could be said your opinion of this particular oil is very low?
What would you recommend for drag racing every few weekends with a road car that usually pootles about town and occasionally has a backroad blast. Car in question is a ST205 Celica GT-4 with around 310bhp. Has been using a 5w40 fully synth up until now from vauxhall as it can be had cheap at trade prices.
Cheers,
Brian.
Brian,
With the Celica again the Silkolene Pro S 10w-50 ester based oil. My worry with the vauxhall oil would be it is made to a cost. Fine in an everyday car with regular oil changes, but with a 310bhp car being dragged it may well not be up to the job.
Go and have a look at the GT4 club forum as we have done some work with these guys aswell.
Cheers
Simon. :thumbs:
Thanks for the advice Simon :)
I see the RS 10w60 isn't your favourite of the Castrol oil range? In general, it could be said your opinion of this particular oil is very low?
Without jumping the gun, I was wonderinf why simon didn't answer this ? :)
Excellent,
We are testing Redline as well, the results should be interesting.
All I need is around a spice jar full and it does not have to be warm, you can take it straight form the container or sump.
Send to: Opie Oils
The Fuel Depot
Cardrew Way
Cardrew Industrial Estate
Redruth
Cornwall
TR15 1SS
Look forward to recieving it.
Cheers
Guy.
How did this & the RP test go ? :)
The Admiral
19-08-2004, 11:42
Hi Simon!
Excellent advice - Ta!
Having said that (and taking all your above advice in to account...) I am using Millars CFS 10w60 in both my lightly tuned S13 which is only used for drifting and circuit racing and also in my lightly tuned EVO which is used day to day and occasionally for circuit racing (although will be on circuit a fair bit in the next month providing the diff doesn't melt... again...)
Is the Millars an ester oil? What do you think of it in general? They also do CFS 10w40, but I thought this a wee bit thin for the turbo cars?
Thanks again for any help :)
Agip is defo fully synth (race) oil.... I know this because they were one of the companies who tried to sue shell when they were selling mineral oil that had been put through an unusual process to give it better properties as synthetic. (this was in west germany where the court found in favour of shell and said "fully synthetic" was just being used as a marketing term - courts are just so wrong sometimes).
After this court rulling SAE actully totally deleted all it's specification information relating to what can be classed as synthetic oil from it's published spec. (SAE are non profit and couldn't fight the decision in court). SO really no fully synthetic oil is within SAE spec. as there isn't one.
Funilly enough Castrol used to buy its synthetic base from Exxon-Mobil until 1999 when they started buying Shell's synthetic base (or to you and me the same mineral stuff put through the special process). Not sure if that is still the case or maybe the RS stuff is diffrent from the other fully synths castrol has sold since 99.
I have it on good authority that there is no reason and is not the case that ester synthetic oil should be any better than other synthetic oil produced via one of the other processes (not including the shell process in the term synthetic). They all have diffrent properties and each are better a some things but not others so no process really excels at everything required of an engine oil.
Also I am not saying RS is bad even if it is made using this specially treated mineral oil. In the grand scheme of things mineral has the capability to be the best lubricator and is the best lubricator arround. The problem is it is not repeatable, one batch could have very diffrent lubricating properties to the next (there have been cases were some batches of mineral just about have no lubricating properties at all). So Fully Synth is not a better lubricator - however it is repeatable so every tub should have identical properties and it can be produced over and over again retaining identical properties.
Thicker oil is better in a lot of turbo cars (not because of the high temp performance etc.,) although this is important, but because the oil tends to be at a higher temp than say a fiesta or other such mundane car. Added to that heat soak to the engine caused by the turbo means the engine holds a higher temp for a lot longer when you turn it off. This means the oil cools down a lot slower (we have all noticed how long our cars hold the temp after we turn them off). Now here is the bit we are intrested in thinner oils are a lot thinner when hot than 10W60 and also need a considerably lower temperature to start getting thicker. The oil being thinner for a longer time means all of the oil that may be left there is able to completely drain away from the crank and bearing shells.
Now you can see the problem there is now no oil round the bearings on the crank when we next start the car. 10w60 however due to it becoming thicker a lot further up the temp scale when cooling down (and being a bit thicker to start with) means it isn't able to drain away so easily and has alot less time to do it.
As big ends are a massive problem for us a thicker oil makes sense (just take it easy when cold, this applies even more to thinner oils though).
The post above are from the scotland section as I was chanllenged in my view to ask the experts view.
I would appreciate your coments on it's content
Also they don't belive that in it's very best form that mineral is better than synthetic for lubrication (it's just that it's quality is unrepeatable time after time that for a car long term synth is the best option cos it as as close as possible to the very best miniral but is always the same quality batch after batch and has properties built in to avoid breakdown etc.)
Thanks
John
Without jumping the gun, I was wonderinf why simon didn't answer this ? :)
Do appologise.
It is not that the Castrol RS 10w-60 is not my favorite oil, I sell it. The 10w-60 does have its applications and for those it is fine.
My gripe with the 10w-60 is the marketing hype that surrounds it. It is commonly believed thicker is better and that is not true, in addition they have down graded the oil over a period of years and have relied on its previous reputation, it was once a very good oil.
The result is you are not buying what you think you are buying.
Cheers
Guy :)
How did this & the RP test go ? :)
Still waiting for the chemist to get back of holiday..
Cheers.
The post above are from the scotland section as I was chanllenged in my view to ask the experts view.
I would appreciate your coments on it's content
Also they don't belive that in it's very best form that mineral is better than synthetic for lubrication (it's just that it's quality is unrepeatable time after time that for a car long term synth is the best option cos it as as close as possible to the very best miniral but is always the same quality batch after batch and has properties built in to avoid breakdown etc.)
Thanks
John
John,
Good post. I agree with what you are saying, turbo and especially modded turbos benefit from a thicker oil, however the SEA60 is just a little too thick and i am talking gear oil thickness here, think of the energy required to pump this round. In my opinion an SEA50 with a good high flah point may it be PAO or ESTER is ideal.
The lubricating properties of minerals, yes they can be good. not necessarly for modern high temp stressed engines due to their low flash point. If you want to go for the ultimate in lube properties there are always the castor based oils.
Cheers
Guy
Hi Simon!
Excellent advice - Ta!
Having said that (and taking all your above advice in to account...) I am using Millars CFS 10w60 in both my lightly tuned S13 which is only used for drifting and circuit racing and also in my lightly tuned EVO which is used day to day and occasionally for circuit racing (although will be on circuit a fair bit in the next month providing the diff doesn't melt... again...)
Is the Millars an ester oil? What do you think of it in general? They also do CFS 10w40, but I thought this a wee bit thin for the turbo cars?
Thanks again for any help :)
We do not know much about millers, been and had a look at their site, however without indepth tech data its hard to tell. They have a very strong following though.
Cheers
Guy.
In SAE it's difficult to tell if 60 is (o my god don't use that) and 50 is (excellent go ahead and use that).
SAE 10 Motor Oil
85-140 cps
SAE 20 Motor Oil
140-420 cps
SAE 30 Motor Oil
420-650 cps
SAE 40 Motor Oil
650-900 cps
Basically the diffrence between 30 and 40 could effectively be 1cps (which is nothing) or as much as 480cps which as you can see is more than a whole 10sae diffrent (if sae worked in units rather than tens ie. 10,11,12)
If we have to make a sweeping statement like 60 is bad and 50 is good (or 30is better than 40 etc... etc...) then we need the figures in cps to see if there is actully any real diffrence in thickness.
:thumbs:
In SAE it's difficult to tell if 60 is (o my god don't use that) and 50 is (excellent go ahead and use that).
SAE 10 Motor Oil
85-140 cps
SAE 20 Motor Oil
140-420 cps
SAE 30 Motor Oil
420-650 cps
SAE 40 Motor Oil
650-900 cps
Basically the diffrence between 30 and 40 could effectively be 1cps (which is nothing) or as much as 480cps which as you can see is more than a whole 10sae diffrent (if sae worked in units rather than tens ie. 10,11,12)
If we have to make a sweeping statement like 60 is bad and 50 is good (or 30is better than 40 etc... etc...) then we need the figures in cps to see if there is actully any real diffrence in thickness.
:thumbs:
Its not that the SEA60 is bad, its just too thick for most modern hot running 120-130c engines. Its only real application is two BMW engines the S54 and the S62 and 1950's style V8's. Its usefull in old engines with large oil ways etc.
I will gather some figures for comparason.
Cheers
Guy. :thumbs:
Just thought I'd add, that since changing from Mobil 1 Motorsport 15w/50 to Silkolene Pro-S 5w/40 my engine has stopped sounding like a bag of spanners at idle when hot and feels free-er at the top end of the revrange and is definately pokier :)
Dave
Just thought I'd add, that since changing from Mobil 1 Motorsport 15w/50 to Silkolene Pro-S 5w/40 my engine has stopped sounding like a bag of spanners at idle when hot and feels free-er at the top end of the revrange and is definately pokier :)
Dave
Now thats what I like to hear after doing my oil change last night (just before it pi$$ed it down :rolleyes: ) Will be interested in how the Pro-S 5w/40 compares :nod:
The Admiral
19-08-2004, 23:09
Thanks, Guy - read some more about Millars and sounds like they've uprated their CFS to be more ester based or something...
They recommend 10-40 for turbo engines up to 1500cc and 10-60 for turbo engines over 1500cc or so - what difference does capacity make to what type of oil you need, please?
Cheers :)
Hi Guy
It's prolly been covered elsewhere, just curious to know what you'd recommend for me
Year: 1997
Engine: sr20det
Boost: 14.5 psi
Power: about 260
Mileage: 125K
Mods: T28 BB, stainless manifold, fmic, induction, cat-back zorst, ik24 equivalents
I do 45 miles a day motorway driving during the week. Weekends is either a couple of miles or about 300. (If the latter then it's pretty much all motorway) Not too brilliant on the warming up thing tho' it normally gets about 10 mins driving before I start to put my foot down - warming down is normally OK tho'. Normally fast road use and fairly gentle acceleration, although I do put my foot down occasionally :)
The main reason I'm asking is that I'm getting a rattle on start-up - probably valve lifters - and have been advised to use thicker oil. Currently car is serviced by Nissan so oil change every 6 - 7k with whatever they use as standard.
Thanks for the help
Tracy
Ok here is a point for anyone using an s13 on trackdays / driftdays (especially when uprated)
Reports from most people who use Mobil 1 15w50 is it gets very noisey after a long session - ie lifters get noisey etc. (oil is getting too thin probs due to heat) this is also coinciding with a drop in oil pressure......
I suggest before everyone who has an uprated car and does track days changes en-masse to this 10W50 we wait till someone who has an oil temp and pressure gauge (and has noticed the problem with mobil 1 15W50) goes on a track day and see how this oil stands up to the abuse (engine temp, oil pressure and does the engine get noisey.
Incidently the RS 10W60 seems to stand up to this sort of use much better
John
But wasn't that the whole point of using the Ester based oil and not the synth mixed stuff as it breaks down less??
Dave
well RS10W60 which he doesn't like and is a cracked hydrocarbon stands up to the heat a lot better than mobil1 15W50 which gav thinks is a good oil (I think the mobil 1 is a tri-mix 3 diffrent synthetic base oils).
So in that case why is RS doing a noticeablly better job than mobil 1???? in our cars (also we often change our oil just before one of these events so it should be pretty fresh and in spec to start with at least....
I have been using RS 10W/60 for the last 5 oil changes (every 800miles) and previous to this was using M1 15W/50. The last oil change I did was to Silkolene 10W/50 due to a fluctuating oil px problem I was getting with the Castrol. The Silkolene oil has completly erradicated the oil Px broblem and the car runs a lot better on the Silkolene oil in terms of Cold start noise, lower oil temp when under full load.
Excellent evidence Richie :thumbs:
That's what I like to hear....... An exaple of this oil being used in a hostile enviroment. And Richie's engine must be a good test of this oil.
Richie have you used it in anger yet (track, top speed, 1/4mile etc?)
Let me see TOTB3 (10 or so drag launches and V-max runs), Terminal Velocity (18 launches and 5x 180mph+ runs) and the oil is still spot on ready for the Thor dyno in the morning.
Thankyou that man........
That's what I like to hear....... An exaple of this oil being used in a hostile enviroment. And Richie's engine must be a good test of this oil.
The best test possible, imo :)
Let me see TOTB3 (10 or so drag launches and V-max runs), Terminal Velocity (18 launches and 5x 180mph+ runs) and the oil is still spot on ready for the Thor dyno in the morning.
Tell us how that goes :) what are you hoping for ? Your car seems.. strangely stable now ;)
Tell us how that goes :) what are you hoping for ? Your car seems.. strangely stable now ;)
It should be the same as last time 516.5bhp@hubs as I haven't been able to resolve the cylinder px problem yet. Just have to wait and see though.
Ally McC
20-08-2004, 15:16
It should be the same as last time 516.5bhp@hubs as I haven't been able to resolve the cylinder px problem yet. Just have to wait and see though. lol I'm on before you Richie and looking for a bit less than 516.5 :D
The last two runs of the day... near std auto follwed by Richie... :D
...sorry for the highjack...
Ok mr oilman i have another question for you :)
Do you have any experience with Bardahl oil?
A dutch rally team uses it and they like it alot, i think they went from 15w50 to 5w40 bardahl oil and say the bardahl oil is much better.
I wasn't sure wat to think of this in the beginning but after reading your info it might be true.
Perhaps bardahl oil is a bit similar to the silcolene oil :confused:
I just recently changed my oil to a Statoil 5w-50. Any thoughts on this grade of oil? My car is only mildly modded at the moment at 58000 miles with airfilter and a boost upgrade.
cheers,
-Milosz
Mark,
The S14 calls for a 80w-90, so a good 75w-90 would be fine. I do not know if the oil you were using was a factor, if it was it might be because it is ford branded and likley to be made to a cost. We stock the a choice of fully and semisynthetic gear oils.
Go for a good quality brand 75w-90 and you should have no problems.
Cheers
Simon.
The Ford spec is WSD-M2C200-C not sure if you can look this up or if its just for Ford reference. Its not that cheap either as the RRP is around £10 a litre so i'm assuming its pretty good stuff :confused:
Just found that its the equivilent to Royal Purples Synchromax ?????
Ok mr oilman i have another question for you :)
Do you have any experience with Bardahl oil?
A dutch rally team uses it and they like it alot, i think they went from 15w50 to 5w40 bardahl oil and say the bardahl oil is much better.
I wasn't sure wat to think of this in the beginning but after reading your info it might be true.
Perhaps bardahl oil is a bit similar to the silcolene oil :confused:
Must be honest I am not familiar with Bardahl, I will look into them though.
Cheers :)
I just recently changed my oil to a Statoil 5w-50. Any thoughts on this grade of oil? My car is only mildly modded at the moment at 58000 miles with airfilter and a boost upgrade.
cheers,
-Milosz
The 5w-50 is an uncommon grade. If it is a good quality oil, the grade is fine and will give good cold start protection.
Cheers
mr oilman, you have mail :)
Haven't posted any tecchie stuff here for a while so enjoy - it's worth the read.
TRUE SYNTHETICS ARE MORE “SHEAR STABLE”
SAE has a test called HT/HS (High Temperature/High Shear) ASTM D4683 at 150 degC.
The higher the HT/HS number the better because this indicates less shearing. Petroleum oils tend to have low HT/HS numbers which barely meet the standards set by SAE. Because petroleum oils are made with light weight basestocks to begin with, they tend to burn off easily in high temperature conditions which causes deposit formation and oil consumption.
As a result of excessive oil burning and susceptibility to shearing (as well as other factors) petroleum oils must be changed more frequently than synthetics.
Not all multi-viscosity oils shear back so easily. True synthetic oils (PAO’s and Esters) contain basically no waxy contamination to cause crystallization and oil thickening at cold temperatures. In addition, synthetic basestocks do not thin out very much as temperatures increase. So, pour point depressants are unnecessary and higher viscosity basestock fluids can be used which will still meet the "W" requirements for pumpability.
Hence, little or no VI improver additive would need to be used to meet the sae 30, 40 or 50 classification while still meeting 0W or 5W requirements.
The end result is that very little shearing occurs within true synthetic oils because they are not "propped up" with viscosity index improvers. There simply is no place to shear back to. In fact, this is easy to prove by just comparing synthetic and petroleum oils of the same grade.
Synthetics will generally have significantly higher HT/HS numbers. Of course, the obvious result is that your oil remains "in grade" for a much longer period of time for better engine protection and longer oil life.
So what is VI Improver?
As a lubricant basestock is subjected to increasing temperatures it tends to lose its viscosity. In other words, it thins out. This leads to decreased engine protection and a higher likelihood of metal to metal contact. Therefore, if this viscosity loss can be minimized, the probability of unnecessary engine wear will be reduced.
VI improvers are polymers that expand and contract with changes in temperature. At low temperatures they are very compact and affect the viscosity of a lubricant very little. But, at high temperatures these polymers "expand" into much larger long-chain polymers which significantly increase the viscosity of their host lubricant.
So, as the basestock loses viscosity with increases in temperature, VI improvers “fight back” against the viscosity drop by increasing their size. The higher the molecular weight of the polymers used, the better the power of "thickening" within the lubricant. Unfortunately, an increase in molecular weight also leads to an inherent instability of the polymers themselves. They become much more prone to shearing within an engine.
As these polymers are sheared back to lower molecular weight molecules, their effectiveness as a VI improver decreases. Unfortunately, because petroleum basestocks are so prone to viscosity loss at high temperatures, high molecular weight polymers must be used. Since these polymers are more prone to shearing than lower molecular weight polymers, petroleum oils tend to shear back very quickly. In other words, they lose their ability to maintain their viscosity at high temperatures.
Synthetic basestocks, on the other hand, are much less prone to viscosity loss at high temperatures. Therefore, lower molecular weight polymers may be used as VI improvers.
These polymers are less prone to shearing, so they are effective for a much longer period of time than the VI improvers used in petroleum oils. In other words, synthetic oils do not quickly lose their ability to maintain viscosity at high temperatures as petroleum oils do.
In fact, some synthetic basestocks are so stable at high temperatures they need NO VI improvers at all. Obviously, these basestocks will maintain their high temperature viscosities for a very long time since there are no VI improvers to break down.
Cheers
Simon
Simon,
You might know this - how hot should you let the oil get before you start giving the car some welly... Normal operating temp is 90DegC, motorway pushing 100...
Should you wait until it hits 90, 80, 70 etc... Is there a 'magic' number, or just until normal temp is reached?
This is running Silkolene ProS 5w40, as supplied by you :thumbs:
Cheers,
Jon
Normal operating temp is OK.
PRO S is very temperature stable and can be used for prolonged periods up to 130 degC!
Cheers
Simon
Cheers!
Do you know the temp that it starts lubricating 'properly' though? :)
Hi there,
do you have any transmission oils suitable for use in clutch type LSD's? the manufacturer sells their own 80W-140 API GL-5 oil, but thats in japan, and I'm not:( have you got anything with that or similar spec?
Hi there,
do you have any transmission oils suitable for use in clutch type LSD's? the manufacturer sells their own 80W-140 API GL-5 oil, but thats in japan, and I'm not:( have you got anything with that or similar spec?
We have the Fuchs Titan Gear hyp 85w-140 which meets the GL5 spec. E-mail me for prices.
Cheers
Simon.
Cheers!
Do you know the temp that it starts lubricating 'properly' though? :)
It will start lubricating fine at start up but to give it some welly just wait untill the engine is up to normall temp and it will be ready for a pasting. :whip:
Cheers.
In fact, some synthetic basestocks are so stable at high temperatures they need NO VI improvers at all. Obviously, these basestocks will maintain their high temperature viscosities for a very long time since there are no VI improvers to break down.
Would that be the justification behind Amsoils claimed 25k intervals, or is that just a case of "American optomism"?
Billy.
It is not impossible for an oil to run for 25000 miles but would you do it?
You see it's probably ok in a stock car with no extreme use but in a car used for drifting, track days and spirited driving, I wouldn't recommend it.
Nissan Micra maybe but 200sx, I think not.
Cheers
Simon
twinturboch
21-09-2004, 07:25
I need to be getting some oil in the group buy. I need 5 litres-ish for my mildly tuned S14 (will be running aroung 270bhp) which is mainly driven VERY hard and another 5 litres-ish for my completely standard S12 (1.8 8valve turbo 140bhp) which is my runabout and is used for short journeys etc. It still gets a bit of stick though. Can you give me any idea which of your oils would be the best. Don't ask me what I use now as I can't remember whats in there at the moment as I keep changing on peoples advice. If you could get me a price (maybe via PM) too that would be good. I am going to be the Kent/Surrey dude for the group buy so delivery will be to me. Many thanks.
James
BTW: my postcode is BR2 0LX :thumbs:
Hi Oilman :wave:
Oil turned up next day as promised for which I thank you very much indeedy :)
One point though, I had to collect it from Amtrak as I wasnt in when they delivered. When they asked me what I was expecting and I said "Oil" they freaked out and said they weren't supposed to carry that :eek:
EVen though it was labelled from "opie oils" :rolleyes::D
Hi Oilman :wave:
Oil turned up next day as promised for which I thank you very much indeedy :)
One point though, I had to collect it from Amtrak as I wasnt in when they delivered. When they asked me what I was expecting and I said "Oil" they freaked out and said they weren't supposed to carry that :eek:
EVen though it was labelled from "opie oils" :rolleyes::D
Yer I had a big row with DHL at work as I have to send oil samples from engines on test to a lab in Wales and they started freaking out that it was hazardous :rolleyes:
Engine oil has a flash point in excess of 200C so is not classed as hazardous unless its being transported by air ;)
I've been running the Silkolein Pro S for a week now and wow! No more VVT rattle :D
Hello oilman ive got a s14a 1998 and do standard day to day driving i have an induction kit and will have a performance zorst. Please can email me some prices for oil engine and transmission
cheers jamie
jjdlennon1974@yahoo.co.uk
Hello oilman ive got a s14a 1998 and do standard day to day driving i have an induction kit and will have a performance zorst. Please can email me some prices for oil engine and transmission
cheers jamie
jjdlennon1974@yahoo.co.uk
Mail sent chap. :thumbs:
Yer I had a big row with DHL at work as I have to send oil samples from engines on test to a lab in Wales and they started freaking out that it was hazardous :rolleyes:
Engine oil has a flash point in excess of 200C so is not classed as hazardous unless its being transported by air ;)
We have had this trouble as well, we find if you describe the oil as lubricant they dont tend to question it.
Cheers
Guy.
Hello mate, what sort of oil would you reccommend for my mildly tuned (250hp) R32 skyline??
its used every couple of days or so, and every 2 weeks or so gets a bit of a beating at drift days...
also how frequenty would you change the oil??
Many thanks
Jason :)
Hello mate, what sort of oil would you reccommend for my mildly tuned (250hp) R32 skyline??
its used every couple of days or so, and every 2 weeks or so gets a bit of a beating at drift days...
also how frequenty would you change the oil??
Many thanks
Jason :)
Jason,
For you skyline, go for the Silkolene Pro S 10w-50 ester based full sytnetic. Esters assist the additive pack in a motor oil formulation because they are surface-active (electrostatically attracted to metal surfaces), so they help to reduce wear and friction.
They are fluid at very low temperatures and at high temperatures they are very chemically stable and have low volatility (don’t evaporate away).
They also help to prevent hardening and cracking of oil seals at high temperatures making them ideal for tuned engines used in anger on those drift days. :thumbs:
E-mail me for prices.
Cheers
Guy.
voodoo_melon
28-09-2004, 23:27
Hi,
What would you recommend for me? Running about 270bhp (or will be shortly), currently on Castrol RS 10w60 but I think it's a little too thick? Only ever gets down to about 2bar when it's hot. Not used on track at the moment.
Ta
Hi,
What would you recommend for me? Running about 270bhp (or will be shortly), currently on Castrol RS 10w60 but I think it's a little too thick? Only ever gets down to about 2bar when it's hot. Not used on track at the moment.
Ta
I agree the RS 10w-60 is a bit too thick, also it is just a hydrocracked mineral oil and not a synethetic in the true sense of the word. I would suggest the Silkolene Pro S 10w-50. This oil is being used by quite a few 200SX's now. Another option would be Mobil 1 15w-50 as this is a top PAO synethic.
Cheers
Guy.
twinturboch
29-09-2004, 10:42
Hi Simon.
I'm as above but I do drifting and track driving, would it be worth dropping to the 5W silkolene? Cheers
Hi simon due for an oil change soom if it's poss could you send a price list I beleive you recommened 5w40 for my car email address is andypat4@hotmail.com
110'000
performance zorst
induction kit
running std turbo
cheers andy
Hi Simon.
I'm as above but I do drifting and track driving, would it be worth dropping to the 5W silkolene? Cheers
The 5w will cope fine with drifting but we do recomend the 10w-50 for this activity as the revs are bouncing of the limiter, just to give you extra protection against this really.
Cheers
Simon.
twinturboch
29-09-2004, 11:42
So I should stick with 10W? Will the same stuff be fine in my bog standard S12? Many thanks.
James
BTW: I'm doing part of the group buy and was wondering if you could give me a price on the following:
Silkolene Pro S 5W/40 4 tubs x 5 litres Total 20 litres
Silkolene Syn S 75W/90 9 bottles x 1 litre Total 9 litres
Silkolene Pro S 10W/50 4 tubs x 5 litres Total 20 litres
Cheers again
ADVANCE NOTICE
Just a note to let you all know that we have Supplier increases on Silkolene PRO S and PRO R effective 1st November.
For those of you thinking of ordering, October would be a smart move as the increase will be around £1.00 per litre.
All orders made for October delivery will not be affected.
Cheers
Simon/Guy
Could you PM me a price list please oilman.
Thanks
For those of you thinking of ordering, October would be a smart move as the increase will be around £1.00 per litre.
£5 bottle is a large increase, but still makes it cheaper than the £30 for 4L that **most** oils cost.
When do I have to order by to keep the "old" prices?
Order by 22nd October OK ?? I'll get another North West Group buy sorted :nod:
Anyone intrested in that GB see link in Sig.
£5 bottle is a large increase
Your not kidding, %age wise thats huge :furious: How can the supplier justify such a massive price increase? Looks like your post in the "how are we doing" thread of 9/10 on price should now be 5/10 Kev :nod:
It's annoying that a lot of peeps have Silkolene swilling around in their engines with the recommendation of not going back to conventional synth. I now have Silkolene in all 3 cars but if it means double changing the oil again and going back to Valvolene synth that's what I will do.
I am now wishing I had never bothered :rolleyes:
Pete,
I'm sorry to hear that and I'm not defending the increase but the new price still represents extremely good value against comparative oils, it's 30% cheaper than Redline, Royal Purple, Mobil and Castrol performance products which makes it somewhat of a bargain considering how good it is.
The oil is good for much longer drain periods so if you do the numbers you'll see that the costs are comparative to inferior oils that need changing twice or three times as much.
We will of course treat group buys as favorably as we can and therefore it is unlikely that you'll see the full increases on this basis as we can play with the numbers a bit more.
I can assure you that we will always do the best we can for you all ;)
Cheers
Simon
Could you PM me a price list please oilman.
Thanks
Drop me an email and I'll send it.
Cheers
Simon
Order by 22nd October OK ?? I'll get another North West Group buy sorted :nod:
No problems - my advice is stock up.
Cheers
Simon
alanjuggler
02-10-2004, 15:26
oilman, since i'm hoping to get into the NW group buy that's going on..
Make: Nissan
Model: 200sx S13
Year: 1994
Engine Size: 1800
Engine type: CA18DET
Mods: air filter/exhaust/fmic/boost valve/t28/stg2chip aiming for ~270bhp
type of driving: motorway/traffic / occasional track days (hopefully)
current oil: 10w-40 as recommended by my garage, god knows what brand, i've been running different oils after the bottom end was rebuilt and then broken in and moved through them :)
oh and for a friend..
Make: Honda
Model: Civic CRX
Year: 1990
Engine Size: 1600
Engine type: B16A
Mods: airfilter/exhaust so far, ~150bhp
type of driving: much the same as me, he's hoping for some track day action as well.
and his current oil, i have no idea i'm afraid..
Hello again Simon :wave:
Oil advice for a 1992 (K) Mini Mayfair 1275 4 Speed Please :thumbs:
Standard, will be first service by me, 26,000miles only ever done, probably doesnt need it but I want to make sure :D
oilman, since i'm hoping to get into the NW group buy that's going on..
Make: Nissan
Model: 200sx S13
Year: 1994
Engine Size: 1800
Engine type: CA18DET
Mods: air filter/exhaust/fmic/boost valve/t28/stg2chip aiming for ~270bhp
type of driving: motorway/traffic / occasional track days (hopefully)
current oil: 10w-40 as recommended by my garage, god knows what brand, i've been running different oils after the bottom end was rebuilt and then broken in and moved through them :)
oh and for a friend..
Make: Honda
Model: Civic CRX
Year: 1990
Engine Size: 1600
Engine type: B16A
Mods: airfilter/exhaust so far, ~150bhp
type of driving: much the same as me, he's hoping for some track day action as well.
and his current oil, i have no idea i'm afraid..
For your 200 SX we recomend the Silkolene Pro S range. either the 10w-50 or 5w-40.
For the Civic, he has a choice, he can go for a semi synthetic around the grade of 10w-40. Or the better option would be to go for a 5w-40 full synthetic. Again if he wants best resulsts the Silkolene Pro S 5w-40 would be top option.
Cheers
Guy.
Hello again Simon :wave:
Oil advice for a 1992 (K) Mini Mayfair 1275 4 Speed Please :thumbs:
Standard, will be first service by me, 26,000miles only ever done, probably doesnt need it but I want to make sure :D
For the Mini I would suggest a good quality mineral oil. Around the 15w-50 grade and change it on a regular basis due to the gearbox being fed from the engine. As the oil has to deal with the loads on the gear teeth it is more prone to shearing down. The alternative is the Silkolene Pro R 15w-50, however we tend to recomend this to modified and tracked minis as the ester is great at dealing with the loads on the gears.
Cheers
Guy.
Hi Simon :wave: I need to change oil soon. I have mods as per my sig and power at around 280bhp. This summer I have used 15/50 mobile1 and was gonna change to 10/40 for winter. I think the Silkolene pro s 10/50 would be good for me. What do you think? Could you pm me a price please? :thumbs: Cheers, Phil (cHiL)
Make : NISSAN
Model : 200SX
Year : 1999
Engine Size : 2.0L
Engine Type : SR20DET (turbo)
Any Mods : APEXi GT Spec S/S Zorst, 3" stainless front pipe, APEXi Induction kit (with induction box), APEXi AVC-R, APEXi S-AFC2, HKS s40i Iridium Plugs, GReddy R-SPL (HG) FMIC, Polished Forge BOV
Type of driving : Fast road and some drag, 'normal' daily driving too
Chill,
PM sent chap :thumbs:
Cheers
Guy.
Right, gearbox oil (yes again, cant find original recomendation) and also Diff oil.
Cars running 295 bhp at the wheels and will get used for track quite a bit next year, as well as sprited road use....
Need some gearbox oil to look after my reconed box, and also some diff oil what do you recomend!
Right, gearbox oil (yes again, cant find original recomendation) and also Diff oil.
Cars running 295 bhp at the wheels and will get used for track quite a bit next year, as well as sprited road use....
Need some gearbox oil to look after my reconed box, and also some diff oil what do you recomend!
Ok, we recomend for both gear box and diff the Silkolene Syn 5 75w-90, this a full ester synthetic, used in many competition boxes and diffs.
E-mail me for prices.
Cheers
Guy, :thumbs:
You dont know the capacity of me diff do you :wack:
(I should know but I forget off hand).
You dont know the capacity of me diff do you :wack:
(I should know but I forget off hand).
S14 Diff, 1.8 liters, gearbox is 2.4.
Cheers
Guy.
Cheers, E-mail away :)
Now just for fun, how much oil does my engine take ;)
Cheers, E-mail away :)
Now just for fun, how much oil does my engine take ;)
3.7 liters, come on try me :thumbs:
3.7 liters, come on try me :thumbs:
:no: I am suprised Vez hasn't asked for a price for a 56 Gallon drum :D
Nope, higher :D
Remember he has a larger sump and oil cooler, and is just trying to make himself feel special :whip:
kirkster
05-10-2004, 13:15
Remember he has a larger sump and oil cooler, and is just trying to make himself feel special :whip:
Vez is special... very special :D
Sure I saw him and SteveC on the Littlest Groom :wack:
Kirkster, got a package from the posty today, you know that Trax ticket, apparently it never got delivered, and I now have it :rolleyes: ****ing special delivery too :rant:
kirkster
05-10-2004, 13:21
Kirkster, got a package from the posty today, you know that Trax ticket, apparently it never got delivered, and I now have it :rolleyes: ****ing special delivery too :rant:
:confused:
It never got delivered mate :confused:
It was returned to sender :confused:
kirkster
05-10-2004, 13:27
It was returned to sender :confused:
God knows mate, but defo never had out from the posty, normally they leave a card if you're not in.
The oil turned up today, great service!
Cheers,
:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:
Shame to hear about the prices going up in Nov. tho.
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