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Thread: Boost leak info

  1. #1
    Guest John Sharratt's Avatar
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    Boost leak info

    Some info on boost leaks, what they cause and how to diagnose them:
    (note: if you know the causes/symptomes skip to the test guide at the end of this post)

    The most common boost leak is intercooler, intercooler piping, turbo leaks. This is because these areas are under high pressure, hence loose piping is more likely to pop off or split. Its also the longest air piping in the engine bay, plus by far the most common area for 'inventive' fixes by alot of car performance enthusiasts. These are all positive pressure boost leaks which generally don't cause damage to an engine

    Max boost pressure could be the same with small or even medium leaks therefore do not use this when attempting to diagnose boost leaks. Use the tips below:


    Boost leak after turbo (e.g. loose intercooler piping)
    -------------------------------------------------
    Positive boost leaks simple make the turbo work harder to compensate the lost air, this results in over fueling. Over fueling occurs due to AFM reading more air than is entering the engine.

    Symptoms:
    higher RPM required for same boost pressure, fuel cuts, flames, pops, less power, poor on boost performance, black spark plugs, bad fuel consumption


    The best way i've found to identify positive pressure boost leaks is to take note of turbo RPM spool up. I.e. At what RPM the boost pressure maxes out. If its higher up the RPM range than normal, its likely you either have your timing out, or a boost leak. The reason this works is as follows - if the turbo is made to work harder for the same boost pressure, its peak boost point will be shifted up the RPM range, quite simply, it has to flow more air to get the same boost, anyone remember reading up on turbo flow maps?


    Boost leak before turbo (e.g. loose AFM)
    ---------------------------------------
    No boost pressures changes will be seen however severe the leak, all that will be noticed is the symptoms of a very lean engine. People with their engines running lean may never know they have a air piping leak as its not the most obvious cause. The reason the engine runs lean is simple. Air will be sucked in not forced out the leak as the turbo/engine sucks it in. This means unmetered air is entering the engine bypassing the AFM. This causes the AFM to underread the airflow resulting in less fuel added than actually needed. Fueling will be lean which could lead to DET, DET will mean to the engine dying very quickly.

    Symptoms:
    engine starting problems, poor engine running, pinking, pinging, deting, power black spots (i.e. certain rpm ranges have reduced power), pistons popping out the engine bay (worst case).

    As for indentifing boost leaks before the turbo, these are very hard to diagnose, best thing to do with these is to check all the pipes by hand or perform the guide detailed below. These pipes are not under big pressure differences so loose piping doesnt result in lots of air leaking like in intercooler piping however it is still a leak no matter how small. Its also alot more damaging than a positive pressure boost leak as it could cause DET hence a big engine rebuild bill.



    Air leak guide: 'How to test for boost leaks'
    -------------------------------------------
    (by far the most accurate sure way to test for boost leaks)


    - Detach boost pipe attached to the turbo compressor and block it by putting a can or tin of appropriate size then tightning a jubilee clip around to create an air tight seal.

    - Remove idle bypass pipe (attaches to a T piece on your intercooler pipework)

    - Block idle control unit (attached to the side of the manifold) to prevent air escaping there. I use a large bolt and screw it into the pipe. Note: if you've detached the bypass pipe at the T piece which also goes to the cold start bypass, you will need to ensure this is also blocked.

    - Power up compressor and build up pressure, insert the end of your compressor gun into the idle bypass pipe. Wrap lots of tape around the gun and bypass pipe, this will provide an air tight seal. You will need to use alot of tape over a wide area as the pressures will be high in the pipe work.

    - Using your compressor gun, allow pressure to enter the pipe work, if everything is correct your pipe work should pump up and maintain its pressure inside.

    Note: If you have a very bad leak it'll never build up any pressure at all. Either quickly run around the car after putting air into the system to listen/feel for the leaks or get another person to do the listening/feeling while you do the pumping. This should allow you to identify the leaks.

    - Fix any leaks that are found and repeat the test, pressure will leak out the system as the manifold and valves will never be completely air tight however it should maintain pressure for at least 30 seconds if your pipe work is good. Identify and fix every leak

    Note: If you find a leak between the next step and the previous but can not find any leaks in the pipework, it's likely your turbo itself is leaking. This could be a split turbo casing or faulty turbo seals. If in the next step your sure you have no boost leaks, you may need to investigate the turbo itself.

    - Now remove the tin/can blocking the turbo compressor pipe and use it to block off the air flow meter. If you now do the same test you should be able to identify leaks before the turbo (WARNING: DO NOT ALLOW PRESSURE INSIDE TO EXCEED 10psi, AS THE INLET PIPES COULD EXPLODE!!!! THEY WERE NEVER DESIGNED TO TAKE POSITIVE PRESSURE)

    - Fix air leaks and repeat.

    - If you are sure you have no leaks but can not maintain boost pressure, try rotating your engine a little, as if the inlet and exhaust valves are both open (wild cam profiles) and air is getting past your throttle butterfly, air could be escaping down the exhaust. You could try blocking off at the butterfly to test this
    Last edited by John Sharratt; 13-05-2006 at 11:49.

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    Cheers for that mate, I will add it to useful threads

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    Guest Yakko's Avatar
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    Thanks John, that inspired me to perform a leak test on my IC and pipework from turbo to plenum. I decided to block up the plenum, so I could be 100% sure that any leakage was down to a leak in the system somewhere.

    For anyone else who is going to do this, you'll need two bungs - I used two jamjar lids, one of 73mm to block up the plenum pipe and 50mm to block up at the turbo.

    Last edited by Yakko; 13-05-2006 at 16:10.

  4. #4
    Guest Si's Avatar
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    Good size for the plenum end is a sainsbury's Arrabiata sauce jar

    Turbo end is WD40 size

    and the idle takeoff thingy is big fat marker pen size

  5. #5
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    I found a plentifull supply of idle bypass pipe blockers is AA batteries

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    Guest flange's Avatar
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    is this easy to do then???i mite ave to do mine!!

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    anyone have pics of the idle pipes that needs to be blocked ???

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    Guest Clouder_sx's Avatar
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    I did this today

    I'll be honest with you, the whole idle thing REALLY confused me.

    So, just do what i did. Unplug from turbo - block up tight. Unplug from plenum - block up tight. Unplug the idle pipe which comes from just to the right of the plenum onto the plenum pipe you've just blocked up. Pop your pump/compressor on there (intercooler pipe) and pump away, getting someone to look for leaks in the system. It may not be 100% correct way of doing it, but it made my leak noticeable with easy



    Ignore the question mark - i wasnt sure, but decided to pump it up from there. Note in that pic im yet to disconnect pipe from plenum (note, you dont have to, but i thought it best for optimum testing )
    Last edited by Clouder_sx; 11-03-2007 at 23:46.

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    I can practically see your leak from here!!!! the cold side pipe has moved off the plenum AND the cross pipe. slacked off the clips and get the pipes upto the stops at least, then check the rest of the hoses for the same

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    Guest Clouder_sx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sideways danny View Post
    I can practically see your leak from here!!!! the cold side pipe has moved off the plenum AND the cross pipe. slacked off the clips and get the pipes upto the stops at least, then check the rest of the hoses for the same
    You are about 12 hours late fella

    My boost leak is well and truly sorted, and nowt wrong with anything you see in that pic aside from the bit of blue tubing missing its screw for 10 mins while i was feeling for air

  11. #11
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    look at these gaps. that is not right

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    will just need to find a way of connecting compressor up, will do this see if / where my leak is

  13. #13
    Guest Clouder_sx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sideways danny View Post
    look at these gaps. that is not right
    But its not leaking there so its ok

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    Guest Clouder_sx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_bristol83 View Post
    will just need to find a way of connecting compressor up, will do this see if / where my leak is
    I was expecting my system to pump up and then leak air slowly, but

    I was pumping away and the gauge wasnt moving a bit this is where you need a second human being! Took the wheel and arch liner off, and got my dad under there listening, and you could hear the air coming out with each push of the compressor handle. Felt with fingers and added a bit of soapy water, and there it was, right down the whole side of the wing-mount

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    Guest purple200's Avatar
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    boost problemz?

    Anyone now wats up with my car? it seems to drive fine all through the rev range but if i give it the berries and lit go ov the throttle while at max boost it jumps around like a kangaroo?and on idle it seems to hunt but ive had the on board diagnostics read and there are no faults?im running out of ideas nowit doesnt seem to be as fast as wat i normaly is!

  16. #16
    Banned sideways14a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clouder_sx View Post
    I was pumping away and it wasnt moving a bit this is where you need a second human being!
    Sounds a bit kinky if you ask me, any ways...
    I have had several boost leeks over the years and they always tend to act like that. The wingmount is a primary candidate for crack of the month award when it comes to boost leeks, mine developed a lovely little number at the usual location.
    The front mount is not always a performance mod, it cures problems that nissan should have noticed in the first place

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    Guest SULPHUR's Avatar
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    Just fitted a fmic, power feels good upto 5000rpm but then there is a major power loss, it does not want to rev above 5500rpm, when i got a mate to look at the boost gauge i never hit more than 6psi . before it used to hit 10psi.
    any ideas, could this be a leak.

  18. #18
    Guest djlee_dj's Avatar
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    someone help out by pointing out were to block on 'petrol's' picture .....



    thanks ... and were to insert air ?

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    Am I doing this right?

    Hi -

    I've had what seems like a boost leak problem on my S14 (Auto) - no
    power at all when accelerating (mucho hesitation and smoke from
    exhaust when you put the foot hard down) and momentary dropping of revs and hunting at tick-over. Have changed the fuel pump for a Walbro and have a new fuel regulator to go on (not yet fitted).

    Have tried the pressure test described in this thread - there doesn't
    seem to be any pressure build-up, but I'm not sure I'm doing it exactly right.

    I've blocked-off the large pipe into the turbo and the small diameter pipe
    off the T-piece on the pipework just to the right of the rectangular, metal box thingy 8" or so behind the air intake.

    I'm pumping air into the rear-facing T-piece on the left-hand side of the pipework (labelled 'Here?') in the earlier pic in this thread but there is no
    pressure build-up whatsoever.

    Do I need to block the pipework anywhere else?

    Either there is a massive leak in the inter-cooler, or I've missed something....
    which is more than possible...

  20. #20
    Guest Clouder_sx's Avatar
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    There is unlikely to be a pressure build up if the leak is massive, which is posted in my post above

    Get the passenger side arch liner off, and someone with there head in next to the intercooler as you pump away (ooo err). It will almost 99% certainly be pissing out around there somewhere.

    PM me if/when you need new pipes, i have 2 without cracks

    PS, you will need to remove the intercooler (easy) to find the state of the cracks properly - how to do that is explained somewhere on this site

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