Solid Rolling Road Result

[liquidsmoke]

Well, after getting a good 340bhp at APT I fitted some water injection to the old CA, and on Gary's recommendation I got some HKS 264/9.0mm cams to go in it too.

Seen as I spent all my money on parts and am a bit skint at the moment I had a go at mapping the PFC myself. I realised its quite a can of worms and once I started tinkering I wasn't happy until I'd found what happens with different timing numbers and AFRs etc. I think the can of worms is even bigger once water injection comes into play as I found it would run as high as 13:1 AFR without any sign of knock. However I settled on 12:1 AFR on boost and was able to knock the timing up +3deg. The engine made a nicer less 'stressed' sound with a bit more fuel so I left it there

I must say the WI is great for finding boost leaks - as the bubbles start popping out of any jubilee that isn't tight once on the RR.

The map isn't quite finalised yet - I think I could probably get away with some more timing numbers around peak torque, and just before the boost comes in, which might get more out of it there; although at the moment the timing numbers climb nicely with the revs on full load and it looks pretty in FCEdit so I'm loathed to change them. LOL - well I actually read that engines like incresed timing slightly as the revs climb...so I don't know if anyone wants to offer any advice on this?

CA18DET
GT2871R 0.64AR
Water Injection
Ambient temp >26deg with not much airflow in the RR garage.
380 bhp @ 6600
330 ft-lb torque @ 4750

The power is still there at what looks to be 6800 on the RR graph, but the rev limit is set to 7200 - odd. Might increase to 7500 and see where power drops off.

[liquidsmoke]

Oh...and if anyone has any tips on how to make my car not stall when revving under load, then dipping the clutch...please enlighten Only does it sometimes, but it's usually when I'm doing a 3-point turn or something annoying!

[alanjuggler]

i've had that, make sure your idle is set correctly & TPS is showing as 'on' when the throttle is closed.

[liquidsmoke]

howd you mean 'set correctly'? I'll check the idle switch...is there a setting to monitor in the PFC for that?

[2BOBRocket]

nice!!

i think allan means in the sensor check mode at idle the tps is showing as on with the circle beside it in grey.

[croustibat]

i am surprised on your numbers ... actually i find these pretty low. I know a ca18det with the same turbo , a fmic, running standard head (by standard i mean no cams or lifters, just a little polishing and adjusting work) and 1.6 bar boost who gets 430ish HPs (the turbo cant give more than 1.6ish boost at high revs anyway). The only difference is he is running e85... Although it does allow much more aggressive timings (we added 8 to 12° to the max he could use with sp98 before without det), i dont believe it gives 90HP more.

Are you monitoring your EGT along with the AFR ? maybe injecting waters makes it too low ?

[liquidsmoke]

what type of dyno was it? The record around here with this particular turbo is SM with 392bhp iirc; which is on a dyno dynamics RR.

...to put the difference into perspecitve, I had my car RR about 2 years ago at track and road in essex, with the same turbo mapped just with an SAFC2 and about 2 psi less, with no WI and no cams and it got 350bhp at 25deg ambient. This was before it was mapped properly at APT on the PFC and got 340bhp at about 15deg ambient. The car was much faster with the APT map though - my arse could tell.

I've chosen to use a dyno dynamics RR because a lot of people on here do also, so it's a good comparison.

I'm not monitoring EGT, but it's no way too low at 1.6bar and 380bhp on full throttle on boost in my eyes. The manifold still glows

I do think I can put more timing in between 3500-4500 just as turbo is spooling. What kind of numbers are other people using here?

[retardrift]

Isn't that excessive boost on a 2871?? Wouldn't trust a CA to last that long at such high boost levels...

[twincam]

Isn't that excessive boost on a 2871?? Wouldn't trust a CA to last that long at such high boost levels...

It's rated for 2 bar by garrett afaik.
If a CA is rebuilt properly it will run that all day long with good mapping.
Which AR size 2871 is that with?

Good result imo

edit: JP made 436.3bhp 512.6Nm with a 2871r on a DD roller, but that was on E85 at 1.8bar

[martinbattye]

goes too rich coming on boost. then has a lean spike right after.. try to turn that out.. the car will respond nicer..
if youd like an in depth tutorial on PFC mapping and logging for corrective changes come over and see me and you can buy me a maccy ds!!

[Leroy]

nice figures man

[ToddS14A]

my mate works in that garage, thats tom's garage aint it, i used to get my punto gt rr'd they're and soon to be taking my 200 there

[twincam]

on Gary's recommendation I got some HKS 264/9.0mm cams to go in it too.

Any perticular reason why he recommended 264's with a 2871r?

[liquidsmoke]

goes too rich coming on boost. then has a lean spike right after.. try to turn that out.. the car will respond nicer..

I think without changing the rpm scale/map points - whatever you call them; then it's impossible right now. The 2 map points either side of that rich bit have too much effect on the fuelling either side and so if i lean it out, it goes too lean either before or after that rich bit...

Don't pay too much attention to that last AFR line actually. The map hasn't changed at all between the runs, and when I check the fuelling before/after this dyno run and at the same boost - it's 0.82 lambda all the way along - it's def not richer like in that graph. The only explanation i have for that is that it's a dodgy reading

[liquidsmoke]

Any perticular reason why he recommended 264's with a 2871r?

I think just because it matches the turbo quite well - perhaps shifts the power bias to the rev range where the turbo is at it's best? You'd have to ask him. SM's result was with the same cams iirc - however his were 8.8mm whereas mine are 9.0mm. Gary has been a good help;I'd recommend APT.

[martinbattye]

I think without changing the rpm scale/map points - whatever you call them; then it's impossible right now. The 2 map points either side of that rich bit have too much effect on the fuelling either side and so if i lean it out, it goes too lean either before or after that rich bit...

Don't pay too much attention to that last AFR line actually. The map hasn't changed at all between the runs, and when I check the fuelling before/after this dyno run and at the same boost - it's 0.82 lambda all the way along - it's def not richer like in that graph. The only explanation i have for that is that it's a dodgy reading

id take a bet on the rr bringing the load in differently to on the road, hence the different fuelling..

with an Ljetro PFC you can get the fuelling very linear as its MAF load based. there is not much chance that two cells run over each other creating odd spots.. perhaps you need to re cal your AFM curve a little

[twincam]

SM's result was with the same cams iirc - however his were 8.8mm whereas mine are 9.0mm. Gary has been a good help;I'd recommend APT.

On his 2007 power run where he made 392.5bhp he said he was using 256 cams. I thought that might explain why he had more midrange power and hit full boost earlier

Is yours the .64 or .86 version?

Yes, 0.64 GT2871R with a prototype Apex S13 Manifold.
Standard rebuilt head, with 256 duration 8.5mm lift cams .

edit: your right

It doesn go explain why everyone who copied my spec got ~30bhp less with a GT2871R and 256 cams Sorry Guys, I really did think they were 256's not 264's !!!

[800bhp]

Oh...and if anyone has any tips on how to make my car not stall when revving under load, then dipping the clutch...please enlighten Only does it sometimes, but it's usually when I'm doing a 3-point turn or something annoying!

Fixed this problem on mine by moving the air flow meter further away from the turbo

(however, mine is SR20 and different turbo so might not cure the problem)

[liquidsmoke]

i've had that, make sure your idle is set correctly & TPS is showing as 'on' when the throttle is closed.

...I don't have an idle switch input on the ECU as it's an SR20DET ECU...I've changed the map points to give me a 400rpm column - and have put a load of fuel and timing into the boxes where it wants to konk out - hopefully might fix it.

Matty - where abouts are you? I wouldn't mind someone showing me how to do the air curv changes - I don't quite understand what what does...

I am finding that on full thr, on full boost; all 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears use the same rows in the fuel and ign map. It's annoying as 2nd runs a little lean and 4th runs a little rich...it's not too bad but still annoying. IT's the reason for the dip to rich at 4400rpm on the dyno as thats in 4th gear i think.