Turbo Nuts/Washer - Nord-lock Worries

[piman2k]

Hi all, would like some advice please,

Recently my turbo nuts/washers rattled loose on a trackday. Took it apart yesterday and I found that all the Nord-locks had split. I guess these separating took out the anti vibration feature and set the nuts off on their way. Everything that was left on the turbo is in the pic:



I've got replacement Inconel turbo hardware from Full Race but I can't fit it at the moment as can't tap the manifold without taking it off so trying to find a longer reach tap.

Full Race Hardware - http://www.full-race.com/store/turbo...dware-kit.html

Problem is, this comes with Nord-lock's as well. Now, I can't help but be nervous given I've just taken the fragments out from mine. Are they quite resilient to heat? Can't see any reason why they shouldn't be, but has anyone had any issues with them?

Thanks

[Chriscooke]

Can you not make up a locking tab (guess oem won't fit with your setup) or use lock wire etc?

[piman2k]

I can use locking tabs I guess, this is M10 so might still fit with factory size, but FR assure me this isn't required. A friend of mine has suggested locking wire as well, but it kind of defeats the point of the Nord-lock doesn't it.
It's not a massive job getting it all off, it's very quick, but it's a nut ache, pardon the pun.

[Chriscooke]

I'm a firm believer in belts and braces, it adds piece of mind but not much weight

[zeppelin101]

I had locking tabs on my old manifold which never gave me any grief and that generated an unholy amount of heat for how basic the setup was. I'm not totally convinced by the nord-lock stuff.

[Mark]

$50 for some nuts and studs

I used copper lock nuts on mine and never had any issues.

[Si]

Lockwire.


Sometimes the old methods are the best.

[piman2k]

$50 for some nuts and studs

I used copper lock nuts on mine and never had any issues.

It's only about £30 which isn't far off a regular fitting kit.

Cheers for the lockwire idea, I haven't seen/used it before but you're not the first to mention using it this time around.

But my question still remains, are the Nord-locks not up to the hot job?

[Si]

What are your washers made of?
This page suggests normal steel ones are only suitable to 200C, and the Stainless 500C, which may be borderline exterior surface temp I guess?
The doubtless-really-expensive-super-inconel ones are rated to 700C
Yours look stainless-y?

[piman2k]

FR says 'Silver plated A4-70 grade'. I will need to Google up what that entails. They say they are up to the job, and I trust that. It's just the washers that scare me.

[s200rat]

Just to clarify, when you say the washers have split what do you mean as they should be a two peice washer from the start.

[piman2k]

Just to clarify, when you say the washers have split what do you mean as they should be a two peice washer from the start.

The washers I've been provided with are these



So you can see the 4 washers there, each with their 2 halves. But they're secured together, so I assumed that the issue had been in however they are fixed to each other (see first photo for the current solution). You can hold the washer in between your fingers and slide the 2 sides relative to each other about 2 or 3mm. Which I've not seen before. I'm not big on mechanical fasteners so sorry if I'm being vague.

[MapBoy]

I think the sealer between the nordlocks is just to hold them together (at least they are with the ones I used on mine.
what size are they? we have some at my work and I could send you some new ones.

Them splitting should not be an issue as they are reusable.

when it comes to undoing them they just jump and come loose...I thought I'd sheared studs but the all came off easy.

[s200rat]

Don't worry about the washers comming apart. The important thing with the likes of nordlock is to ensure they're clean and the nut/base metal is softer than the locking washer to allow it to bite.

[jackm]

Just putting in some experience from working in the aircraft industry, lockwire is the most secure and probably most reliable way of securing fasteners etc.

I would recommend getting some locking wire pliers like this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/9-Safety-L...item5d3232bf9d

and drilling 2 holes in the outside portion of each nut like this:


With a few attempts you will find it pretty easy. just got to work out in your head which way the wire has to go to 'pull' the nut/bolt tight so you dont anti lock them and your golden.



Dont have to get too tight on the turns per inch.

Incase your worried about the heat etc, we use it on everypart of our turbofan engines, from the 'cold' side to the 'hot' side.

[nash`s]

Got me worried about mine now as using the same as you. From memory a couple of mine are split too.

[piman2k]

I think the sealer between the nordlocks is just to hold them together (at least they are with the ones I used on mine.
what size are they? we have some at my work and I could send you some new ones.

Them splitting should not be an issue as they are reusable.

when it comes to undoing them they just jump and come loose...I thought I'd sheared studs but the all came off easy.

Don't worry about the washers comming apart. The important thing with the likes of nordlock is to ensure they're clean and the nut/base metal is softer than the locking washer to allow it to bite.

Oh ok, that's reassuring to know. So even though I wouldn't I could in theory re-use the ones that have come off. I just figured the fastener had to be secured together but if you guys are right then that's golden.

Just putting in some experience from working in the aircraft industry, lockwire is the most secure and probably most reliable way of securing fasteners etc.

I would recommend getting some locking wire pliers and drilling 2 holes in the outside portion of each nut

With a few attempts you will find it pretty easy. just got to work out in your head which way the wire has to go to 'pull' the nut/bolt tight so you dont anti lock them and your golden.

Dont have to get too tight on the turns per inch.

Incase your worried about the heat etc, we use it on everypart of our turbofan engines, from the 'cold' side to the 'hot' side.

Thanks Jack, I appreciate that a lot. I don't have access to power tools at my lock up so it's not possible at the moment, but I've favourited this thread for future reference.

I'm going to tap the manifold to take the M10's and fit the Inconels in, then see what the score is.

[jackm]

Oh ok, that's reassuring to know. So even though I wouldn't I could in theory re-use the ones that have come off. I just figured the fastener had to be secured together but if you guys are right then that's golden.

Thanks Jack, I appreciate that a lot. I don't have access to power tools at my lock up so it's not possible at the moment, but I've favourited this thread for future reference.

I'm going to tap the manifold to take the M10's and fit the Inconels in, then see what the score is.

Not a problem, when i go for my upgrade, i will be wire locking the nuts. In the mean time, locktabs would be ideal and maybe brace the turbo onto the engine cosworth style might help.

http://www.autospecialists.co.uk/Sta...oduct-999.html

[piman2k]

Thanks Jack, appreciate your time. I just ordered a long tapping wrench so I can actually twist the tool clear of the car, I'll stick with these Nord-locks if that's the consensus that they can fall apart OK and see how I get on. Many thanks for all your help.

[diamondsink]

Of course the nordlock washer will split, the glue that holds them together will burn out straight away. That doesnt matter in the slightest it has nothing to do with how they work. As long as you put them back together when you reinstall them.

I had problem blowing my T3 gasket on my top mount setup. Would do one every other outing.(only took minutes to change). I got some M10 inconel cap head screws from work. Still used the nordlock and have not done a gasket since. (well over a year). They dont pick up the thread either like stainless etc. So always come undone nicely when removing the turbo.

Inconel doesnt expand in the same way lesser alloys will so stays tight. They are the dogs bollocks on anything exhaust.