Erection 2015

[Asht_200]

Everything Labour is promising will be paid for by the mansion tax not sure how much they are actually expecting

They've spent the amount more than 3 times over in their manifesto.

Extra NHS Funding from the Mansion Tax
Deficit Reduction from the Mansion Tax
Cutting Tuition Fees to be paid from you guessed it "The Mansion Tax"

Why do we need an International LBGT Rights Envoy

One other thing. Some of the parties have pledged to end any private sector profiteering from the NHS....... Just tell me where the fook do they expect to get the drugs from?

[spice_weazle]

One other thing. Some of the parties have pledged to end any private sector profiteering from the NHS....... Just tell me where the fook do they expect to get the drugs from?

Haha, thats a good point.

[spice_weazle]

Double post!

[R3K1355]

Why is everyone so up about it anyway.

The first private company to run an NHS hospital has already handed it back as it was a total mess, that tells you what a dis-organised mess it all really is.
The mainstay of the NHS will always stay under public ownership because it's not anything that could ever be made into a profitable company.

[sparkyhx]

Green all day long - the fools will give us stupidly quick electric cars that don't need much servicing.

Maybe.

er no that's not how it worked. If you lied about your earnings, by definition its not sub prime. Sub prime is effectively going against the credit check recommendations and lending more than you could afford (according to declared earnings.

And in the UK it wasn't sub prime mortgage lending that caused the problem. Halifax were never in Sub Prime - it was corporate lending that went t*ts up.

However the broader global situation did include sub prime particularly in the US.

[R3K1355]

Alot of our institutions get knee deep in the American sub-prime market tho, either directly buying up the mortgages or indirectly buying them in a package.

Either way the issue was taking on more debt than they had reserves to cover, so when it all went tits up they were left with ****-all.

I find it quite insulting that HSBC are now looking to move away from the UK and moaning about the new banking restrictions which are put in place to try and stop another financial meltdown.
Those ****s needs kicking into touch, hard.

[sparkyhx]

Also those espousing the Con/Lib success - they failed pretty much every benchmark they set themselves - success indeed.

They've spent the amount more than 3 times over in their manifesto.

Extra NHS Funding from the Mansion Tax
Deficit Reduction from the Mansion Tax
Cutting Tuition Fees to be paid from you guessed it "The Mansion Tax"

Not saying you are wrong, but that doesn't mean its been spent 3 times just split 3 times.

I'm sure you spend your salary on Mortgage, Car Insurance, Petrol, car tax, food, Beer, etc etc doesn't mean you've spent it x times.

[sparkyhx]

Simple answer to all the Major cities like London. Draw a line against the Council house / housing association list. If you want tax payer to pay for housing, MOVE.

I can't afford to live in London, so why should my taxes pay for someone else to?

When the Government aren't prepared to pay the exorbitant rents Landlords are asking, prices will soon come down

LOL - in the meantime who runs your city? who drives the buses, tube, hospitals, drains, your morning coffee i.e. every low paid job. get f*cking real. I'm not saying it sucks, it does, but its not the answer.

Incidentally the government are just subsidising low wages. Not only that, as a country we have expensive systems in place to pay welfare and collect the tax to pay the welfare. If companies paid a living wage, no need to subsidise welfare as much, less overheads on managing a complex welfare system. Probasbly less tax than the cost of giving a living wage. Everyone is a winner?

Give 1m people an extra £10 and they will spend it and the money goes round again and the economy as a whole wins and grows. Give a billionaire and extras £1m and it will find its way into an offshore account - nobody benefits.

[R3K1355]

Yea but if the monkey serving me brakfast McMuffin is suddenly on a tenner an hour then how much is that McMuffin gunna cost???

and who's gunna bother doing all the low-paid skilled work, like nurses, scientists and shit??
Whats the point in going to uni to get those jobs if you can earn near enough the same wage working at a fast food joint?

[sideways14a]

Also those espousing the Con/Lib success - they failed pretty much every benchmark they set themselves - success indeed.



Not saying you are wrong, but that doesn't mean its been spent 3 times just split 3 times.

This mansion tax money tree must be a bloody massive thing then, unless the 3 way split is peanuts.

As for paying lots more as minimum wage ect, well i have a little problem with this as well.
A lot of folk (not all fair enough but most) are payed lowly for a reason. There jobs are undemanding, easy to fill positions that almost anyone can do and are pretty unskilled in a lot of cases.
If a cleaner say is paid 10 quid an hour will my wage increase to reflect the difference...? Will other people in similar jobs and positions also see a big rise?
You can fill a low end job 10 a penny usually but skilled and experienced positions are paid more for a reason.

I am all for an increase in min wage for things like inflation and for local concerns ie in London where you cant take a shit unless you spend a 100 quid but a country wide jump... yeah sooper.

[spice_weazle]

This mansion tax money tree must be a bloody massive thing then, unless the 3 way split is peanuts.

As for paying lots more as minimum wage ect, well i have a little problem with this as well.
A lot of folk (not all fair enough but most) are payed lowly for a reason. There jobs are undemanding, easy to fill positions that almost anyone can do and are pretty unskilled in a lot of cases.
If a cleaner say is paid 10 quid an hour will my wage increase to reflect the difference...? Will other people in similar jobs and positions also see a big rise?
You can fill a low end job 10 a penny usually but skilled and experienced positions are paid more for a reason.

I am all for an increase in min wage for things like inflation and for local concerns ie in London where you cant take a shit unless you spend a 100 quid but a country wide jump... yeah sooper.

Im with you on this. My wages wont go up at the same rate, for that to happen we would have to up our prices and our customers would bugger off and have stuff manufactured in India or such like. So make things easier for the low earners whilst the middle earners with skills loose there job thus paying no tax and then claiming. Im all for a decent living wage but a lot of people just arent capable of doing a skilled job so why should skilled workers suffer for the idiots. It annoys me as well how the majority of people in the public sector, by that I mean council workers etc, are always moaning how bad they have it, they should try working in the private sector where like for like jobs, on a skills level, I would say private sector workers are worse off.

Most of the smaller parties are saying there needs to be an end to austerity but where is the money going to come from? We have non ffs.

[sparkyhx]

Yea but if the monkey serving me brakfast McMuffin is suddenly on a tenner an hour then how much is that McMuffin gunna cost???

and who's gunna bother doing all the low-paid skilled work, like nurses, scientists and shit??
Whats the point in going to uni to get those jobs if you can earn near enough the same wage working at a fast food joint?

the same cos they are not paying the tax that tops up his wages.

[sparkyhx]

This mansion tax money tree must be a bloody massive thing then, unless the 3 way split is peanuts.

As for paying lots more as minimum wage ect, well i have a little problem with this as well.
A lot of folk (not all fair enough but most) are payed lowly for a reason. There jobs are undemanding, easy to fill positions that almost anyone can do and are pretty unskilled in a lot of cases.
If a cleaner say is paid 10 quid an hour will my wage increase to reflect the difference...? Will other people in similar jobs and positions also see a big rise?

I am all for an increase in min wage for things like inflation and for local concerns ie in London where you cant take a shit unless you spend a 100 quid

If you notice I said living wage not minimum wage. Living Wage varies countrywide - so in effect you agree with me.

[sparkyhx]

This mansion tax money tree must be a bloody massive thing then, unless the 3 way split is peanuts.

fair enough, but point to the section in the manifesto that says its funding all three fully. If you are going to spout rubbish at least get your facts straight. All of the manifesto's have huge holes in them. Cons can't/won't say where the savings are coming from, the rest can't/won't say how much borrowing is needed. All are saying they will reduce the deficit, just the speed at which they do it varies. Cons have managed to turn fundamentally failed targets into 'didn't we do well' how did that happen?
If you look at their 2010 manifesto a number of promises have not materialised

- Snoopers Charter - even more data is required to be collected and held
- Anonymity for Rape defendents - fail
- British Bill of Rights - fail
- No erosion of Jury Trial - its increased
- NHS Reorganisation - juries out on this but the signs are not good.
- Patient Power - PCT's abolished and not replaced (main conduit for patient input)
- Lords reform - Nope
- Protect low paid - mixed at best, lower tax thresholds, but the benefit support for low paid has reduced.
- Third Runway at Heathrow - nope
- Cutting number of special advisors - same as when they were at the peak under Blair
- Free vote on Foxhunting - nope
- Friendly EU relations - er what do you think
- Aviation Tax reform - just a bad promise - turns out what they wanted to do was illegal under international law
- Reduce Child Poverty - er...what do you think.

Just in case you think I am making these up - they are from the Conservative commissioned Audit into the Manifesto pledges.

Other pledges -
We are going to make our midwives’ lives a lot easier… we will increase the number of midwives by 3,000. Fail
We have absolutely no plans to raise VAT - Fail
NHS Targets missed consistently since start of year
Balanced budget by this year - way off, in fact roughly the same level as labour said they would achieve.

interestingly Cons have borrowed more in the last parliament than Labour did in the previous 13 years. That's not to say it will continue like that, but it illustrates how fundamentally the Cons have missed their own financial targets. What makes people think they will continue to make savings.

Anyway i'm bored now

[sideways14a]

Of course they had to borrow more, they inherited a shit state. Would coming into office in 2010 and just saying "**** it lets axe 100B straight off..." that would do so well.
That said i am aware of the many targets missed by this government and have a few things to point out.
1 This was a coalition, some of your fails are undoubtedly down to this.
2 The tories didnt have all the figures before coming into government did they. Sure a lot of the problems with the economy were known prior to the election but lots were not and it doesnt surprise me that promises were missed.
3 Europe has been a disaster, its struggling to get back on its feet and dragged the uk down with it - amazed we are doing as well as we are to be honest and i doubt anyone could have imagined in 2010 that 5 years later Europe is still in the gutter.
4 Europe again .... friendly relations... who gives a ****. People in this country want a vote ... a referendum on staying. Why do labour not want this? is it because the population might demand we leave. I know cameron is shit scared about this but the tories are committed to it and i doubt the country will let them away with another term without a vote. Millibrain wont give one so ... well there you go. not much to say.
5 NHS... no **** can fix this shambles ...

Not defending everything this government has done, but my god compared to the alternative....

[sparkyhx]

Not defending everything this government has done, but my god compared to the alternative....

How can you compare to the alternative - its impossible, as only one side gets to try out their strategy, you can only go off what was promised and delivered

[R3K1355]

"Spend our way out of Recession"

That phrase is still burned into the minds of everyone since 2010, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out how that one would have panned out.

[sparkyhx]

:cough: Keynesian economics (and later John Hicks) :cough: Turns out, its not rocket science after all.

[sparkyhx]

Of course they had to borrow more, they inherited a shit state. Would coming into office in 2010 and just saying "**** it lets axe 100B straight off..." that would do so well.


2 The tories didnt have all the figures before coming into government did they. Sure a lot of the problems with the economy were known prior to the election but lots were not and it doesnt surprise me that promises were missed.

So if there was no way they could have done it why didn't they say so, from the start. Sounds like excuses after the event.

Any way lets look at the pledge. Save £1 in every £100 of general spend (seems reasonable), £1 in every £10 of welfare spend.

Welfare spend consists of :-
DWP Total 166.98 broken down into :-

State Pension 74.22
Housing Benefit 16.94
Disability Living Allowance 12.57
Pension Credit and Minimum Income Guarantee 8.11
Income Support 6.92
Rent Rebates 5.45
Attendance Allowance 5.34
Incapacity Benefit 4.94
Jobseekers Allowance 4.91
Council Tax Benefit 4.83
Employment and Support Allowance 3.58
Statutory Sick Pay and Statutory Maternity Pay 2.55
Expenditure incurred by the Social Fund 2.37
Carers Allowance 1.73
Financial Assistance Scheme 1.24
Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit 0.89
Severe Disablement Allowance 0.88
National Insurance Fund 0.82
Bereavement Benefits 0.59
TV Licences for the over 75s 0.59
Other Benefits 0.4
Maternity Allowance 0.37
Other Programmes 0.18

So they need to save 16bn (rounded down)on welfare. I think (not sure) they said pensions are ring fenced so that means saving 16bn from 92bn. Where the F*ck is that going to come from?

Unemployment Benefit for the slackers? - hmmmm that's 4.9bn in total - so that's a complete red herring.
Biggest areas are Housing benefits and Disability Living allowance , but you can't find 16bn from those.
Minimum Income Guarantee? - the subsidy to those on unlivable wages
The rest are minimal and a lot of them are extremely emotive

The vast Majority of benefits do on in Pensions, Disabled and in-work benefits (i.e. employers paying peanuts so the government steps in) so not wasters at all.

I'd really like to know where this magic £1 in £10 is coming from. Any ideas?

[Jonny Wilkinson]

:cough: Keynesian economics (and later John Hicks) :cough: Turns out, its not rocket science after all.

Keynesian economics has been proven to work when we were a nation with a national economy.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work when your infrastructure projects are delivered by international consultancies, international building firms with international labourers.

The money invested does not perculate to the local (i.e. national) economy and circulate, it simply haemorrhages into a few pockets of the super-rich and into the international community where it makes diddly-squat difference.

What I think we need is a way of getting the people who live in this country into a position where they are able and willing to work by switching away from the trend towards globalisation and focussing on small-scale local businesses, training and mobilisation of the UK workforce and incentives for the mobilisation of businesses so the labour and the jobs are brought together instead of high areas of unemployed and unemployable and a concentration of work in the South East of England.

Sadly, no one seems to be offering that. The closest seems to be UKIP saying they'll pull us out of Europe and the Tories saying they will punish the workforce if its not mobile and willing to train itself neither of which is what I am looking for