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Thread: Rich off boost and lean on boost

  1. #41
    Dorset & Hants Rep pointz's Avatar
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    Nope i stripped all the covers off and crank pulley and i have 39 between cams and 48 between exhaust and crank also checked the keyway and that is all good too.

    Im running out of ideas tbh

  2. #42
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    CAS position looks OK to me. Its about where mine is and that's not been moved in 10 years and my timing and AFRs are ok.

    I'm just wondering if the richness on vacuum is down to you not having any aux air flow anymore. You've blocked the PCV, FICD and AAC and air regulator will be closed when engine is warm so when the throttle is closed, there is no way for the air to get in so it will run rich I imagine. What vacuum reading are you getting on the boost gauge on the overrun ?

  3. #43
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    Did you measure the AFM volts at the ECU plug? That checks the ECU > AFM loom is OK as well.

    Injectors out of sequence will affect idle at low speed only. At high rpm (>3200) they batch fire all at the same time once / rev, 2x cycle. Runs like a bag o shite at idle if swapped.

    The lambda isn't used at high rpm range either, it just uses the map + "learnt fuel setting". A learnt fuel setting can be removed by disconnecting the battery for about 30sec.

    This is why CA doesn't have high idle on MOT emission test, it's not a full range (3rd gen?) lambda ECU that was required for this rule. There is a note in the front of the VOSA databook.

    Lean on boost, rich off boost points to a vac leak somewhere. Get a smoke test.

    Have you done mode I and II ECU tests? Any hesitation on going to flashing led indicating closed loop with load on engine below 3200 rpm indicates a vac leak or dodgy lambda.

    Coolant kills lambda.

    Capping the FICD isn't simply screw a bolt in, it won't properly seal the port. The port inside needs a ball bearing or bung held by a bolt. As it will fall off/out in situ you need to remove the idle assy and fit your capping system with the port facing up.

  4. #44
    Dorset & Hants Rep pointz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Wilkinson View Post
    CAS position looks OK to me. Its about where mine is and that's not been moved in 10 years and my timing and AFRs are ok.

    I'm just wondering if the richness on vacuum is down to you not having any aux air flow anymore. You've blocked the PCV, FICD and AAC and air regulator will be closed when engine is warm so when the throttle is closed, there is no way for the air to get in so it will run rich I imagine. What vacuum reading are you getting on the boost gauge on the overrun ?
    The strange thing is the cas used to be bang on centre for 15degrees then after my power run i took the covers off to check cambelt and ever since the cas is over to the side for 15degrees.

    Both the dowels are present aswell.

    Skyshack my car is pre lambda but will check the voltages at the ecu and post back.

    Thanks

  5. #45
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    You've double checked you're using the correct MAF and ECU combo??

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3K1355 View Post
    You've double checked you're using the correct MAF and ECU combo??
    I provided Rich with a 4-pin AFM.

  7. #47
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    If he has a pre facelift ECU for indisputable compatibility he needs a 3 pin AFM and loom.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyshack View Post
    If he has a pre facelift ECU for indisputable compatibility he needs a 3 pin AFM and loom.
    As jonny says i have a 4 pin are you saying i need a 3 pin.?

    I have a auto preface ecu in my manual converted car. Car is a 1989 model (pre-facelift) with a noz stg2 chip.

  9. #49
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    That looks like a fuel delivery issue to me (fuel pump, FPR). I wouldn't keep driving it hard with it hitting 13.5:1 AFR on boost, it won't last long.

    Once brought onto load, the AFR is roughly where it should be (for a generic chip at least), then all of a sudden it runs dangerously lean (11.x->13.x). It's not a mapping issue assuming it actually is one of my Stage 2 chips in the ECU. If you need me to verify the EPROM contents, drop me a PM.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyshack View Post
    If he has a pre facelift ECU for indisputable compatibility he needs a 3 pin AFM and loom.
    Not sure if that's a typo or you made a mistake.

    4-pin AFM with a non-lambda (prefacelift) ECU. 3-pin with a lambda ECU.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noz View Post
    That looks like a fuel delivery issue to me (fuel pump, FPR). I wouldn't keep driving it hard with it hitting 13.5:1 AFR on boost, it won't last long.

    Once brought onto load, the AFR is roughly where it should be (for a generic chip at least), then all of a sudden it runs dangerously lean (11.x->13.x). It's not a mapping issue assuming it actually is one of my Stage 2 chips in the ECU. If you need me to verify the EPROM contents, drop me a PM.
    He's swapped the FPR for a good one I sent him.

    He's hardwired the pump which is a Walbro.

    He's running cleaned and flowtested 370 OEM injectors.

    I think (hope ??) he's checked that the short pipe between pump and cradle isn't split.

    If he replaces the pump, that's the whole fuel line replaced pretty much....other than the fuel filter ? Has that been changed, Rich ?

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyshack View Post
    If he has a pre facelift ECU for indisputable compatibility he needs a 3 pin AFM and loom.
    Quote Originally Posted by pointz View Post
    As jonny says i have a 4 pin are you saying i need a 3 pin.?

    I have a auto preface ecu in my manual converted car. Car is a 1989 model (pre-facelift) with a noz stg2 chip.
    Sorry complete brain fade.

    I'm on Malta and I'm going to blame the bottle of wine each night for the last 4 nights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Wilkinson View Post
    Not sure if that's a typo or you made a mistake.

    4-pin AFM with a non-lambda (prefacelift) ECU. 3-pin with a lambda ECU.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyshack View Post
    Sorry complete brain fade.

    I'm on Malta and I'm going to blame the bottle of wine each night for the last 4 nights.
    Picture me scraping the ice off my windows this morning with numb fingers and breathing clouds of condensation as I puffed my way round the car.

    Wish I was on bloody Malta !

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Wilkinson View Post
    He's swapped the FPR for a good one I sent him.

    He's hardwired the pump which is a Walbro.

    He's running cleaned and flowtested 370 OEM injectors.

    I think (hope ??) he's checked that the short pipe between pump and cradle isn't split.

    If he replaces the pump, that's the whole fuel line replaced pretty much....other than the fuel filter ? Has that been changed, Rich ?
    He needs to check the fuel pressure as boost increases, verify the EPROM contents, take some data logs as the issue occurs. Safest place to do all this is on the dyno.

  15. #55
    Dorset & Hants Rep pointz's Avatar
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    So can someone confirm what AFR's i should be seeing.?

    At idle it reaches 15-16 is that too lean or too rich?

    As i understand afr's should be ~12 under load (on boost)

    ~14.5 cruising along and at idle??

    Sorry but i have read so many threads i have kinda confused myself.

    Also i checked my timing again yesterday and now 15 degrees is almost fully advanced. I dont understand as the cas splines, camshaft splines and D locator are ok, and the cambelt is set properly.
    Also woodruff and keywayare good.

    I have tried another cas but no different also fitted a new low mileage engine wiring loom.

  16. #56
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    hi there,anything between 13:1 and 16:1 is ok for idle. If oem lambda is present and functional,then 14.7:1 at cruise is required. For full boost definatelly under 12:1, above 10.5:1 is required,thats it. If cas need to be advanced for 15dep,then cambelt is tooth off.
    Last edited by raddy.; 18-11-2014 at 18:19.

  17. #57
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    Cambelt is not a tooth out i have Checked and double checked 39 teeth between cams 48 between exh cam and crank.

    Also its pre-lambda!

    TBH i'm not happy with the cas being almost fully advanced as it was bang on centre for 15 degrees until i had the covers off to check belt etc

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by raddy. View Post
    hi there,anything between 13:1 and 16:1 is ok for idle. If oem lambda is present and functional,then 14.7:1 at cruise is required. For full boost definatelly under 12:1, above 10.5:1 is required,thats it. If cas need to be advanced for 15dep,then cambelt is tooth off.
    What about cruising along at say 3k revs?

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by pointz View Post
    What about cruising along at say 3k revs?
    same as above,about 14.7:1,this is still oem lambda closed loop area, non lambda should be about same,maybe little bit richer..

  20. #60
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    Get a dial gauge on number 1 piston and find true TDC, then check the pulley lines up with TDC mark.

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