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Thread: Air Strikes in Syria

  1. #101
    Guest R3K1355's Avatar
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    If we're going to get involved we've gotta do it properly, it's no good dropping laser guided bombs on machine gun positions, we need learn to go after their financial systems and their online presence.

    They spread alot of their hate online, but ****-all is really done about it, worse it seems like the security services monitor it to get leads on potential extremists in the making.
    If they made sure that shit wasn't available in the first place there would be far fewer people getting radicalised to begin with.

    Just this week a global effort took down nearly 40,000 websites who were selling fake handbags and watches, websites hosted all over the world got pulled.
    We can't do the same for the sites promoting terrorism??

    What a ****ing shit state of affairs.

  2. #102
    Flamethrower def's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    The difference being we dont want to destroy everyone that doesnt think like us, just those who want to do harm to others. Should we have sat back and let Hitler 'do his thang' ? ISIS hate westerners just like the Nazis hated the Jews and i dont think anyone really thinks WW2 was a 'bad idea' Yes it was a terrible lose of life on a scale we will probably (hopefully) never see again but it had to be done.
    isis has killed many more Middle eastern Muslims than westerners.

    This is nothing like the Nazi's.

    Leave the middle east to the middle east.

    Every time we interfere we kill thousands (Or a million in iraq) of innocent people.

    The US way of bombing people to freedom kills more than Isis Saddam and Assad.

    You cant save people with bombs its a silly idea imho

  3. #103
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    Religion. Its all ****ing religion. The single worst thing humanity ever invented.
    'My imaginary friend is better than your imaginary friend, so i must kill you '
    How many atrocities have been carried out in the 'name' of religion, any religion.
    If i had the power, id honestly eradicate religion from history and culture.

    I know that's not fantastically relevant to the discussion but it just boils my blood that human beings are willing to murder each other in the name of something there is absolutely no tangible proof of. 😬

  4. #104
    Engine Builder Mark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverzx View Post
    I like Mark, he seems fair.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slip_n_slide View Post
    Mark is right.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattman View Post
    I know that's not fantastically relevant to the discussion but it just boils my blood that human beings are willing to murder each other in the name of something there is absolutely no tangible proof of. ��
    Lack of evidence for something existing is not evidence that it does not exist would be the counter argument.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeppelin101 View Post
    Lack of evidence for something existing is not evidence that it does not exist would be the counter argument.
    Yeah i have been saying this since i started telling everyone i was a god, not been going down too well though.

  7. #107
    Guest R3K1355's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nattman View Post
    Religion. Its all ****ing religion. The single worst thing humanity ever invented.
    'My imaginary friend is better than your imaginary friend, so i must kill you '
    How many atrocities have been carried out in the 'name' of religion, any religion.
    If i had the power, id honestly eradicate religion from history and culture.

    I know that's not fantastically relevant to the discussion but it just boils my blood that human beings are willing to murder each other in the name of something there is absolutely no tangible proof of. ��
    To be fair it doesn't really have much to do with Religion, the sad part of it is they use Religion as an excuse for what they do and also as a lure to draw others in.
    There isn't any religion text out there that says you should strap a bomb to you, walk into a busy market and blow yourself to pieces.

    These people aren't religious, they're twisted and evil, it's very sad religion gets dragged into it because they don't represent the views of genuine religious people.

  8. #108
    Guest Asht_200's Avatar
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    Anyone seen the news about Hilary Benn receiving Death threats after defying Corbyn? I listened to his speech in the commons last night and have to say have new found respect for him - was a fantastic speech and deserved the applause he got from both sides of the house

    Edit: Although it took him a while to talk against it, Corbyn supporters are out for blood with the 66 Labour MPs who were courageous enough to stick to their principles
    Last edited by Asht_200; 03-12-2015 at 14:44.

  9. #109
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    After 9/11, there was a free-thinker (I can't remember his name unfortunately) who wrote a very informed article on "Why they hate us", they being terrorists and us being the USA.

    He basically said that groups of like-minded individuals often get together and discuss "stuff".
    If that group becomes a closed group that does not get diverse views added to it, then what typically happens is not what you might expect. They do not reach some middle ground consensus, they will tend to move to a more extreme view.
    That, in itself, is not a bad thing. It has allowed humanity to evolve. I won't go into why here.

    However, it is a phenomenon that has been recognised by some extremist leaders and they foster groups of impressionable individuals (usually young males) and create the right environment for them to develop extreme views. They manipulate the conversations and discussions and control the new views that are introduced to such a degree that they are able to radicalise the group.

    The members of the group compete with each other, steady moving to more extreme views and acts. They allow perceived slights and injustices to fester then urge the group to "redress the balance" - to fight back.

    These groups are not all based in Raqqa and nor are the leaders.

    The US has been trying to take out key figures (the ones raising and manipulating these groups) using drones but its like trying to cut off the head of the Lernaean Hydra.

    However, a lot has been learned about drone technology through testing them in the field.

    Bombing the oilwells will stop their source of income but, tbh, they already have enough money to keep going for a good while and they'll just move to another area and exploit the resources of that area. If they take over a diamond rich area, how are they going to bomb their mines ?

    Still, it will allow a lot to be learned about the latest blanket bombing technology through testing them in the field.

    If you look at it objectively, the key to finding a solution to any problem is to understand the problem, develop a coherent solution, test it in theory then test it in practice.

    There is very little evidence that bombing Raqqa will solve the problem but it made the French feel a little less powerless after they suffered such a tragedy.

    There is very little evidence that bombing the oilfields will solve the problem but its been voted for so its happening.

    I'm not a Labour supporter (in case anyone wonders) but I do think that Corbyn is being misjudged as what he has consistently said is that the bombing idea isn't well thought out and it should be before it is approved.

    Because he has pointed that out, he is being painted as a terrorist sympathiser ??? That's a cheap shot IMO.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asht_200 View Post
    Edit: Although it took him a while to talk against it, Corbyn supporters are out for blood with the 66 Labour MPs who were out for Corbyn's blood at any opportunity
    ftfy

    BTW, I think HB is one of the best orators currently in Parliament.

  11. #111
    Guest Asht_200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Wilkinson View Post
    After 9/11, there was a free-thinker (I can't remember his name unfortunately) who wrote a very informed article on "Why they hate us", they being terrorists and us being the USA.

    He basically said that groups of like-minded individuals often get together and discuss "stuff".
    If that group becomes a closed group that does not get diverse views added to it, then what typically happens is not what you might expect. They do not reach some middle ground consensus, they will tend to move to a more extreme view.
    That, in itself, is not a bad thing. It has allowed humanity to evolve. I won't go into why here.

    However, it is a phenomenon that has been recognised by some extremist leaders and they foster groups of impressionable individuals (usually young males) and create the right environment for them to develop extreme views. They manipulate the conversations and discussions and control the new views that are introduced to such a degree that they are able to radicalise the group.

    The members of the group compete with each other, steady moving to more extreme views and acts. They allow perceived slights and injustices to fester then urge the group to "redress the balance" - to fight back.

    These groups are not all based in Raqqa and nor are the leaders.

    The US has been trying to take out key figures (the ones raising and manipulating these groups) using drones but its like trying to cut off the head of the Lernaean Hydra.

    However, a lot has been learned about drone technology through testing them in the field.

    Bombing the oilwells will stop their source of income but, tbh, they already have enough money to keep going for a good while and they'll just move to another area and exploit the resources of that area. If they take over a diamond rich area, how are they going to bomb their mines ?

    Still, it will allow a lot to be learned about the latest blanket bombing technology through testing them in the field.

    If you look at it objectively, the key to finding a solution to any problem is to understand the problem, develop a coherent solution, test it in theory then test it in practice.

    There is very little evidence that bombing Raqqa will solve the problem but it made the French feel a little less powerless after they suffered such a tragedy.

    There is very little evidence that bombing the oilfields will solve the problem but its been voted for so its happening.

    I'm not a Labour supporter (in case anyone wonders) but I do think that Corbyn is being misjudged as what he has consistently said is that the bombing idea isn't well thought out and it should be before it is approved.

    Because he has pointed that out, he is being painted as a terrorist sympathiser ??? That's a cheap shot IMO.
    No he isn't. He is being judged on a lot of things. McDonnell had to apologise about his comments supporting the IRA, Corbyn counts Hamas and Hezbollah as friends, Livingstone almost sided with the 7/7 bombers. That is why they were collectively called Terrorist Sympathisers

    Corbyn's problem is that even if it had been well thought out, he would have still objected. What this conflict has admitted though is the European Union is stronger with Britain in it. Disregard everything else. France invoked an article of the Lisbon treaty, calling for military assistance from other EU nations. Regardless of whether you think this is right or not, we were obligated by Treaty to assist them with bombing Syria

  12. #112
    Guest Asht_200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Wilkinson View Post
    ftfy

    BTW, I think HB is one of the best orators currently in Parliament.
    After that speech last night, I would have to agree. He's a real chip off the old block

  13. #113
    Flamethrower def's Avatar
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    I love all the Corbyn spin. Its been so massive that a lot of other country's laugh at our propaganda machine.

    Even Joe mangle from neighbors commented that its amazing the support the Tories has from the media in this country and how blind we are to it.

    Ash we are under no treaty terms that mean we "have to go to war".

    Counts Hamas and Hezbolloah as friend lol give over. you think he would be leader of the reds if they believed in that spin? If he says he would treat with then as legitimate rulers or a governing force of there country's then I'm fine with that.

    Ive voted Blue all my life and said i would never vote red after Blair.

    i was against this new Corbyn guy until I actually watched him talk and use a word that is not in the politicize dictionary..The Truth!!!!

    Cant wait to see the next spin.

    Corbyn felled the twin towers.
    Corbyn causes global warming.
    Corbyn is Osama Bin ladin with make up.
    Corbyn causes all know illness.

    def terrorist sympathizer

  14. #114
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    Have you noticed what an easy time the PM is giving Corbyn.

    He's hoping that Corbyn will remain in place until the next election and that the Labour party will destroy itself just before it so the Tories will get another free ride for 5 years.

  15. #115
    Guest Asht_200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by def View Post
    I love all the Corbyn spin. Its been so massive that a lot of other country's laugh at our propaganda machine.

    Even Joe mangle from neighbors commented that its amazing the support the Tories has from the media in this country and how blind we are to it.

    Ash we are under no treaty terms that mean we "have to go to war".

    Counts Hamas and Hezbolloah as friend lol give over. you think he would be leader of the reds if they believed in that spin? If he says he would treat with then as legitimate rulers or a governing force of there country's then I'm fine with that.

    Ive voted Blue all my life and said i would never vote red after Blair.

    i was against this new Corbyn guy until I actually watched him talk and use a word that is not in the politicize dictionary..The Truth!!!!

    Cant wait to see the next spin.

    Corbyn felled the twin towers.
    Corbyn causes global warming.
    Corbyn is Osama Bin ladin with make up.
    Corbyn causes all know illness.

    def terrorist sympathizer
    Ok having read the article of the treaty I'll let you have that... but Corbyn isn't getting off the hook.

    It isn't just Hamas and Hezbollah though. He counts a couple of Muslim hate preachers as "Very good friends"

  16. #116
    Guest Kieran O'Quick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by def View Post
    i was against this new Corbyn guy until I actually watched him talk and use a word that is not in the politicize dictionary..The Truth!!!!

    Cameron told three straight-up lies this week. 70,000 on the ground, that terrrrrrrst sympathisers want to do nothing and that we haven't killed any civilians yet.

    Totally transparent lies but he isn't being proclaimed as a weak leader, beholden to others. He looked scared to me. Then he looked like he couldn't believe his luck.

    Benn is a hell of a salesman. I watched all 10 hours of that debate (..have an easy life). I kept getting the sense that the intelligent points were being put so calmly and rationally that they weren't being noticed. It was established early on that the consensus was to defeat ISIL - the question was how, nobody was suggesting doing nothing. Nobody was suggesting negotiation. Corbyn wanted to go after the banks and supplies, the borders. He stated this quietly and intelligently - it hasn't been shown on the news though. But the pro bombing MPs were competing to see who could best describe the horrors of ISIL. Emotion was everything. "I've really struggled with this decision ..." was the tedious recourse.

    And Benn did it best by talking LOUDLY and then quietly and waving his hands around. Because they are bad - we must bomb. It was very much like JWs quote:

    "The members of the group compete with each other, steady moving to more extreme views and acts. They allow perceived slights and injustices to fester then urge the group to "redress the balance" - to fight back."

    It was heartbreaking to watch the dimness of some MPs but as someone once said - "the dumb people have just as much right to representation as everyone else". One MP got up and declared that we were the only ones with the vegetarian Brimstone missile. Even though at least twice before it had been made clear in the chamber that the Royal Saudi Airforce has it too.

    So now we're blowing up infrastructure that belongs to another country. Cameron doesn't give a flying about ISIL, Paris or the Syrians. He cares about shifting Assad out. He has done from the start. Anyone know why? Why is a state like so many others suddenly the enemy? What treaty/oil deal/credit deal went sour? What's the real reason?

  17. #117
    Guest Asht_200's Avatar
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    Problem with negotiating with Militant Islam is they want the complete destruction of Israel. It will never happen

    Daesh won't ever negotiate... its like the Terminator... Doesn't feel Pity or Remorse or Fear and absolutely will not stop, ever, until we are all dead

  18. #118
    Guest immy21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran O'Quick View Post
    So now we're blowing up infrastructure that belongs to another country. Cameron doesn't give a flying about ISIL, Paris or the Syrians. He cares about shifting Assad out. He has done from the start. Anyone know why? Why is a state like so many others suddenly the enemy? What treaty/oil deal/credit deal went sour? What's the real reason?
    Assad's Syria is Allied with Russia (has Russian military base) and Allied with Iran.
    US, Israel and Saudi want to topple Iran, Syria is a major step towards that goal.

  19. #119
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    If Daesh is like the terminator then what does that make us? The t1000?

    Hey, don't you get it? We're bombing for peace, dammit.

  20. #120
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    Funny how times change. Imagine if back in 1982 Maggie had said "some nutters in the Falklands are throwing gays off of buildings - we have to go save them". What would The Sun have said? Would we have laughed and gone back to listening to our Queen LPs?

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