RMT leader Bob Crow has died

[docwra]

Wasnt Bod Crow earning more than the PM lol

Quite.

Airline pilots have to go through years of expensive training and have massive responsibility on their shoulders every time they get in the cockpit, its also a volatile industry. Train drivers, not so much.

And anyone earning £140K and living in Social Housing is taking the piss.

[R3K1355]

Tell that to the people of the Malaysian Airlines lost 777.

How many pilots have rescued a plane during a major systems failure compared with how many crashes have been caused by human error?

Yep, but at least some have managed to rescue people after a system failure.

Like the geezer who landed in the hudsen river, using only emergancy backup power

or the bloke who managed to land this and only loose one person

[Asht_200]

Yep, but at least some have managed to rescue people after a system failure.

Like the geezer who landed in the hudsen river, using only emergancy backup power

or the bloke who managed to land this and only loose one person

Stand corrected. Bankers have the future pensions of millions as their responsibility. Sure some make mistakes and some are crooks, but some do their job well and should be compensated at a fair market rate

[Daz]

Stand corrected. Bankers have the future pensions of millions as their responsibility. Sure some make mistakes and some are crooks, but some do their job well and should be compensated at a fair market rate

If a pilot can't save the lives of those on board then they don't need a pension.

[Asht_200]

If a pilot can't save the lives of those on board then they don't need a pension.

Harsh lol except their Widow / Widower would benefit from it if they were alone.

[arry]

Stand corrected. Bankers have the future pensions of millions as their responsibility. Sure some make mistakes and some are crooks, but some do their job well and should be compensated at a fair market rate

But that depends on whether you can justify banking as an industry in itself anyway, since it's often argued it's not 'creating' anything.....


Anyway, Bob Crow - I would say RIP but since he couldn't have the good grace to say the same about Maggie T when she passed away he can go **** himself and I hope he rots in hell for being an arrogant, scrounging, power-grabbing scumbag lining his own pockets under the pretence of 'doing it for the members'.

[Asht_200]

But that depends on whether you can justify banking as an industry in itself anyway, since it's often argued it's not 'creating' anything.....

Unfortunately it is what our economy and pensions rely on

Anyway, Bob Crow - I would say RIP but since he couldn't have the good grace to say the same about Maggie T when she passed away he can go **** himself and I hope he rots in hell for being an arrogant, scrounging, power-grabbing scumbag lining his own pockets under the pretence of 'doing it for the members'.

Ironic that it was a tube not working that finally got hm


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[arry]

Unfortunately it is what our economy and pensions rely on

But it wasn't always this way, and it wouldn't always need to be that way either. It's just the way it's become. It could just as well revert. But of course it won't, because those with the money won't let it. (Not saying I agree nor disagree; just pointing out the obviousness of the situation the collective 'we' are in when it comes to banking and its added 'value' to the UK....)

[Asht_200]

I agree with you. Just don't see how us mere mortals can change it unless we all withdraw our money and stick it in the mattress


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[Jonny Wilkinson]

I think if anyone asked much they were worth they would say a crzay amount, why are bankers or stockbrokers worth so much? not everyone is getting well paid for the job they do and in some cases there is a vast amount of difference in pay for the same job i'm on sub £30k but there is people that I work with do the exact same job as me are on £40k+ get Sundays paid for that's what I have a problem with why doesn't everyone that does the same job get the same pay? i'm sure if you worked as a shelf stacker there is a set amount per hour, that's what I would like to see introduced.

Shelf stacking isn't a typical profession though, is it ? There is a certain basic skill in stacking shelves but most people would be able to do it and within an hour would have mastered the art.

Being a quant requires you to understand things like why one part of the area under a fat-tailed bell curve derived using a monte carlo simulation will give you a strong indication of the future cashflows on an IR swap.

So who should get paid more, a Quant or a shelf-stacker ?

Even if you set a fixed pay rate per job, I would argue its not fair.

If everyone who did a particular job got paid the same amount then someone who was good at their job would get paid the same as someone who was shit at their job. Same for someone who knows their job inside out and backwards vs a noob trainee.

So where is the incentive to learn, get better, add value ?

Its also not just about how much you get paid. Its about how you spend it and how you live. Some people manage very nicely on £40K, others struggle to keep their heads above water on 40K.

"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen [pounds] nineteen [shillings] and six [pence], result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery."

[sideways14a]

ironic that it was a tube not working that finally got hm

:d:d:d

[Asht_200]

Shelf stacking isn't a typical profession though, is it ? There is a certain basic skill in stacking shelves but most people would be able to do it and within an hour would have mastered the art.

Being a quant requires you to understand things like why one part of the area under a fat-tailed bell curve derived using a monte carlo simulation will give you a strong indication of the future cashflows on an IR swap.

So who should get paid more, a Quant or a shelf-stacker ?

Even if you set a fixed pay rate per job, I would argue its not fair.

If everyone who did a particular job got paid the same amount then someone who was good at their job would get paid the same as someone who was shit at their job. Same for someone who knows their job inside out and backwards vs a noob trainee.

So where is the incentive to learn, get better, add value ?

Its also not just about how much you get paid. Its about how you spend it and how you live. Some people manage very nicely on £40K, others struggle to keep their heads above water on 40K.

Go to Cuba. With the tips they receive, Waiters are better paid than doctors

[Jonny Wilkinson]

Go to Cuba. With the tips they receive, Waiters are better paid than doctors

All the Doctors got free education and training and until recently, when Cuba opened its doors to tourism, the waiters were as badly paid as the Doctors. Now its a failing state that will go the same way as Russia in that you will have a few oligarchs and the remainder will be poverty-stricken masses.

Cuba is a failing state for three main reasons :-

It has no resources that are of value to Capitalists - so the West wont trade with it and the US don't like having commies in their back yard so have refused to trade with it
History - It was a pretty fcuked up mess when it became a communist state
Its a communist state - so no one is incentivized to work hard so it needed propping up by the USSR who can't afford to do that any more. Its only hobbling along because Venezuela and some of the other left-leaning South American states are helping it keep chugging along in its death throes.

[Asht_200]

Its a communist state - so no one is incentivized to work hard so it needed propping up by the USSR who can't afford to do that any more. Its only hobbling along because Venezuela and some of the other left-leaning South American states are helping it keep chugging along in its death throes.

Bob Crow was a Communist

[sideways14a]

Bob Crow was a fat c*nt

Yup, proof that fatties die faster.

[scottish-sr]

I woluld imagine flying a plane is a slight bit harder than driving a train plus there is far more scope for things to go very wrong. Trains just stop and go

I would say 60k was fine for a pilot, train drivers should be on around £25k IMO.

Comparing a pilot to a train driver isn't a very good comparison. If being a train driver was so easy then everyone would do it. The wages they get paid are justified. As a driver myself the responsibility and concentration required are huge. There are a number of things that can go wrong daily that joe public wouldn't even think about, debry on the line, animals on the line, trespassers, poor weather - driving a train during autumn is like driving a car on ice. Considering during peak times you can have more than 500 people (more than a jumbo ) that the driver is responsible for, the shifts, the fact you get told your annual leave etc..

Its a sought after job. Over 2000 people applied for 12 positions with the company I'm with. And not all drivers are on £60k, not even Virgin Train drivers. I know I'm nowhere near it. I'm sure if everyone had a strong union behind them & were offered similar pay they would all turn it down

RIP Bob.

[Jonny Wilkinson]

...I'm sure if everyone had a strong union behind them & were offered similar pay they would all turn it down

I'd sack my union off sharpish. No way am I taking a mahooosive paycut

[LED sandwich]

I think the biggest inhibitor to becoming a train driver isn't peoples ability but the closed nature of the industry and lack of available jobs.

[Kieran O'Quick]

All the Doctors got free education and training and until recently, when Cuba opened its doors to tourism, the waiters were as badly paid as the Doctors. Now its a failing state that will go the same way as Russia in that you will have a few oligarchs and the remainder will be poverty-stricken masses.

Cuba is a failing state for three main reasons :-

It has no resources that are of value to Capitalists - so the West wont trade with it and the US don't like having commies in their back yard so have refused to trade with it
History - It was a pretty fcuked up mess when it became a communist state
Its a communist state - so no one is incentivized to work hard so it needed propping up by the USSR who can't afford to do that any more. Its only hobbling along because Venezuela and some of the other left-leaning South American states are helping it keep chugging along in its death throes.

Yup true.

Although:

Sun, rum, cigars, boxing, classical music, national past-time sex.

No billboards, no advertising, no hustling, no anti depressants.

My kind of spot. Shame. Would have been great if it worked out... well they gave it a go.

[scottish-sr]

I think the biggest inhibitor to becoming a train driver isn't peoples ability but the closed nature of the industry and lack of available jobs.

Not really true. I see external vacancies up every week, ok not always for driver but grades where you get a foot in the door. I went from part time ticket checker to driver in 3 years.
There was just approx 80-100 drivers taken on and I would say around half were external. Many people just see the wage and think "I could do that," not realising how challenging the job is, one mistake and you're out etc.
The driving role usually comes around every 3 years or so and thats just to cover people retiring/expansion.
Most people go to the railway as a stop gap but once there for 6 months you're there for life.