View Full Version : Employment Issues HELP PLEASE!!!
Basically what it is, is that my other half Jo has handed her notice in today to her boss giving a weeks notice. Now she had a contract that was never signed that stated that she should give a months notice. But as it was never signed could this ever be binding? Its just that her Boss has said that after 12 weeks even tho its not signed it becomes binding and that she has to work the full month.
Can anyone tell me for sure that this is true or just complete borrocks???
Any help would be great.
Cheers
Simon
tim rome
29-06-2004, 20:51
how long has she worked for her employer. less than a year its a week, over a year is 2 weeks and over 2 years is a month (they are statutory notice periods) as far as i know a contract has to be signed or it is not a contract.
the laws are pretty much on the side of the employee so there is not much that the employer can do if she only works for one week. withholding wages is illegal for anything other than if the employee has taken more annual leave than was entitled to :thumbs:
So although she has worked there for 1 and a half years she should really work 2 weeks but as she has no signed contract she can get away with a week??
Just she has another job to go to next Tuesday
Martin T
29-06-2004, 20:58
If he's being arsey say OK and take the rest off sick.
What I do know is that even when you do not sign a contract when you work, you work under an "assumed" contract. Its not necesssarily the one her boss wanted her to sign. I dont know much more as my employer caved in before I started taking action against them :)
Also those figures Tim rome gives you are what rights to notice the employee has, not what they have to give the employer.
tim rome
29-06-2004, 21:00
they can sue but i have never heard of anyone being sued for that. its too much time, money and effort for the employer. if he withholds any of her pay just phone the tribunal services and they will send out the necessary paperwork :thumbs: :thumbs:
What I do know is that even when you do not sign a contract when you work, you work under an "assumed" contract. Its not necesssarily the one her boss wanted her to sign.
So even tho its assumed its not set in stone?
tim rome
29-06-2004, 21:03
my employer caved in before I started taking action against them :)
they always do if they're in the wrong :D :D
Check out www.emplaw.co.uk or www.acas.co.uk
Might take a bit of searching but you will find the answers, they also have a phone number you can call for free advice! :thumbs:
Bit of personal advice though, she does have options... Surely her boss cannot 'force' her to come to work!? :confused: If she doesn't turn up surely she just doesn't get paid!? :confused:
I have personally always wondered that if you quit a job then surely the contract has no relevance as you are no longer an employee therefore no longer 'under contract'!?
Let us know how you get on :thumbs:
It's a bit of a grey area really. You could argue that, as she accepted the job there and worked there for however long, then by default she accepted the contract. Personally, for the sake of 3 weeks I wouldn't be bothering to argue if she worked for me, I'd let her go.
If you can't find an amicable solution with the employer (and provided that references have already been taken up), I'd agree to the months notice period but spend 3 weeks of it on sick leave.
Martin T
29-06-2004, 22:20
So even tho its assumed its not set in stone?
Sorry mate I know no more details of the assumed contract as I looked into it no further since I didn't have to.
She really wants to find an amicable solution though as she will probably need a reference. If her boss is being an arse, then go over his head and get his boss involved.
If she hates the boss then maybe get her to suggest she was leaving because of his inapropriate advances and didn't want any trouble. That should make any bosses boss let her go easily and a decent reference. ;)
Problem is her boss is the boss boss. Im tempted to just say walk out as we don't believe that she will give a reference anyway :(
I may be wrong (it has been known :D ) but, as I understand it, if there is no signed contract the only notice periods that are actually enforcable by law are the statutory.
As far as I am aware, once a contract is offered to you, you can discuss it, but should you continue to work for the company, you are agreeing to the terms and conditions laid out in the contract.
Ive been told that maybe the best way is to go for constructive dismissal or something like that
Rude n lude
30-06-2004, 11:18
If she's starting a new job then surely any references have been taken and therefore there should be no comeback if she just walks.
Stu
Well its a permtemp role and they haven't taken any yet :(
As far as I am aware, once a contract is offered to you, you can discuss it, but should you continue to work for the company, you are agreeing to the terms and conditions laid out in the contract.
Yep, these are our terms. We have a vast number of people coming in and going out of work through us, so the contract is defined with the words:
"If we have not heard otherwise within 7 days, you agree to the terms and conditions set out in this document." or something like that :wack:
IIRC you dont have to sign a contract for it to be binding. I would personally just ask nicely with my fingers crossed. :)
Martin T
30-06-2004, 13:06
Yep, these are our terms. We have a vast number of people coming in and going out of work through us, so the contract is defined with the words:
"If we have not heard otherwise within 7 days, you agree to the terms and conditions set out in this document." or something like that :wack:
That doesn't mean much if the terms are not signed.
The "assumed" contract and the employers contract are 2 completely different things. Otherwise there is nothing to stop the employer from just changing the contract as they please since there is no requirement for a signature form the employee. Also employees can work for their employer whilst negotiating the contract.
Yep, these are our terms. We have a vast number of people coming in and going out of work through us, so the contract is defined with the words:
"If we have not heard otherwise within 7 days, you agree to the terms and conditions set out in this document." or something like that :wack:
IIRC you dont have to sign a contract for it to be binding. I would personally just ask nicely with my fingers crossed. :)
That said however if there is something in a contract (even if you sign it) that is crappy it my be unenforceable in law. (basically a judge can deem it crap :D )
I'm currently taking my last employer to ET for Illegal deduction of wages (after I worked there for 10 years :eek: they still tried to shaft me :mad: )
Otherwise there is nothing to stop the employer from just changing the contract as they please since there is no requirement for a signature form the employee.
Not if you give them a copy of the contract as well, which we do. :)
If they dont agree with it, then we either renegotiate, or they do not accept the terms (i.e. dont work).
What happens if the employee has both contracts that were written out that were meant to be signed and never gave a copy back??
What happens if the employee has both contracts that were written out that were meant to be signed and never gave a copy back??
Interesting one that. I would say if the company cannot prove there was ever a contract, then the terms within it cannot be enforced :)
Well thats the situation, lol
gaz.thomas
30-06-2004, 13:57
I'm pretty sure you can only oblige an employee to work that period of their notice it may reasonably take to find a suitable replacement.
I'd tell the boss bollocks myself.
Gaz
-x-
Chetster
30-06-2004, 14:00
if the contract is not signed then I think it only becomes binding after a year of service.
Andy Dee
30-06-2004, 15:17
I had a similar problem last year. I hadn't signed the contract and was still within my first year.
I was advised to look on http://www.i-resign.com/uk/home/
What i found was that you don't have to offer any notice period, the offer of a notice period is to show goodwill in allowing your employer time to source a replacement. But the way i interpreted it, was it was purely good will.
Martin T
30-06-2004, 19:04
Not if you give them a copy of the contract as well, which we do. :)
If they dont agree with it, then we either renegotiate, or they do not accept the terms (i.e. dont work).
How can you prove that the contract you show the court was the contract you handed to the employee?
Simply handing someone a piece of paper does not signify that they accept it.
Rude Dog
30-06-2004, 20:00
I had an office job once and I came back off holiday to find a letter waiting for me asking to contact HR asap as they wanted to start disciplinary procedures against me, for what I still have no idea to this day ;)
I wasnt due back for about another week and I worked a night shift so I went into the office at about ten at night, cleared out my desk, said ta ta to my mates and left my letter of resignation on my managers desk LOL :D
I also said in my letter that if they were going to force me to work my months notice I'd take it off sick due to stress. My manager phoned me the next day and said that I wouldnt have to work my notice, never even mentioned the disciplinary proceedings, and wished me well. Wonder if they ever got all the office furniture repaired/replaced :D Midnight jousting on wheely chairs can cause collosal amounts of damage you know :nod:
I also had decided to leave anyway while on holiday and had another job to go to straight away :thumbs:
Slippery Rude lives to fight another day :D
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