View Full Version : for anyone who doesn't get the 'war against terrorism'
http://channels.aolsvc.co.uk/news/article.adp?id=20040618131009990001
this man was innocent. he had no crime against anyone. and these ba5tards have cut his head off.
this is what terrorists do. they kill indiscriminately. anyone who comes from the wrong place or speaks the wrong language. i hope they all fcuking rot in hell.
i'm just so upset after reading this :cry:
Link just brings up an AOL ad. :confused:
I saw the story on the news earlier though. There are some right sick fcuks in this world. :mad:
Link just brings up an AOL ad. :confused:
I saw the story on the news earlier though. There are some right sick fcuks in this world. :mad:
works for me but i'm on aol. text:
Al Qaida Behead US Hostage
al Qaida have posted pictures of Paul Johnson's body on the Internet
The al Qaida group which kidnapped American Paul M Johnson Jr said in an online statement that it had killed the hostage - and posted three still photographs of his beheaded body.
"In answer to what we promised ... to kill the hostage Paul Marshall after the period is over ... the infidel got his fair treatment. ... Let him taste something from what Muslims tasted who were long reached by Apache helicopter fire and missiles," the Internet statement said.
Johnson, 49, worked on targeting and night vision systems for Apache helicopters.
"We, God willing, will continue our road to fight the enemies of God," the statement said.
A Saudi senior security official, reached by The Associated Press, said: "We have so far nothing on this."
In Washington, a CIA spokesperson said the agency was not able to immediately confirm the report of Johnson's beheading.
Johnson was kidnapped last weekend by militants who threatened to kill him by Friday if the kingdom did not release its al Qaida prisoners.
Earlier, the Arab satellite network Al-Arabiya reported that Johnson had been beheaded. The United States Embassy in Riyadh said it was "working on verification" of the claim.
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One of the three photographs posted on the Internet site showed a man's head, face towards the camera, being held by a hand. The other two showed a beheaded body lying prone on a bed, with the severed head placed in the small of his back.
The face looked like Johnson's. Saudi security officials said later that the body of Mr Johnson had been found just outside Riyadh. The officials said police had cordoned off the area, blocking all roads leading to the al-Munisiyah district, 25 miles northeast of the capital.
Sadly, it was inevitable that this was going to happen from the moment he was kidnapped. :furious:
I don't know what the answer is, I went over and visited some colleagues at fire station in Brooklyn. They lost 11 firemen from one fire station and some of the surviving guys will never recover from what they saw and experienced!
The only explaination is that terrorism is a form of self expression for their own mental illness.
No Normal human being can be so unaccepting of life, that was supposedly created by the god they use as an excuse to kill under!
this is what terrorists do. they kill indiscriminately. anyone who comes from the wrong place or speaks the wrong language. i hope they all fcuking rot in hell.:
Its disgusting. But remember these terrorists were funded and learnt all their tricks from the CIA. The US government created this problem.
Rude Dog
19-06-2004, 01:36
Shit like this makes me wanna get a fcuking big gun, loadsa ammo and a plane ticket to Iraq :rant:
Sick fcuking cnuts :furious:
I had a chance to join the RAF as a weapons technician when I was 16. I really wish I had now as I dont feel I've contributed anything worthwhile to my country since birth :( and the world gets worse by the day
Shit like this makes me wanna get a fcuking big gun, loadsa ammo and a plane ticket to Iraq :rant:
Erm... it happened in Saudi Arabia :wack:
I dont feel I've contributed anything worthwhile to my country since birth :( and the world gets worse by the day
don't feel bad geezer. you had a chance of joining, you didn't for whatever reason it was... maybe it was fate protecting you from an event that could have damaged you beyond mesure.
i did 6 years in green and spent over a year in Bosnia at the height if the troubles in the early 90's.. i've seen things that no 21 year old should see.
i didn't go to the Gulf war mark 1 becase i was posted to another area of operation and it was all over before i could rotate into it.
due to an injury i was medicaled out... my mum is convinced it was fate that had decided that i would not go to the desert and fight... it works for her that her youngest son is still at home and alive.
rude... things happen for a reason... don't beat yourself up about it.
you did what you did... who knows joining could have ended your life early.. you have a little one on the way... you are doing your bit by making sure that child has the best start it can... you are doing your bit mate :thumbs: :notworthy
i move the earth for my daughter :)
Let him taste something from what Muslims tasted who were long reached by Apache helicopter fire and missiles," the Internet statement said.
Shit like this makes me wanna get a fcuking big gun, loadsa ammo and a plane ticket to Iraq
Sick fcuking cnuts
RD I'm not picking on you but merely using your comment illustratively.
Basically, I can see (if not totally understand) the fundamentalists POV. And reactions such as teh one above will only continue the spiral.
I also remember a discussion some time back where various people said that, if their loved ones were bombed/killed/whatever, then they would go to exact revenge.
And now people are turning around and condemning others for something that they freely admit that they would do? Do I smell double standards?
(BTW comments aren't aimed at anyone outright, I've had this discussion off the net as well as on it before).
I don't have the answer but I know that the answer isn't to saddle up and ride out. Because for every one of you, I'm fairly sure that there will be 10 people oppressed by the US (among others) and insited to hatred by their leaders ready to come back at you.
Its the same thing as happened in Germany pre WW2 with Hitler's brillaint leadership and political strategy.
Except this time, the militants are angry about everything from West-sponsored assassinations to the fact that GRAPHITE was banned in IRAQ and CHILDREN'S PENCILS are confiscated as you could apparently make weapons from the leads..... ????
MattyGee
19-06-2004, 13:38
i watched this trailer this morning as i like michale moores stuff and i cant wait for the film to come out, sort of shows why people want it banned
http://www.apple.com/trailers/lions_gate/fahrenheit_911/
it doesnt show the american leaders in a good light
RD I'm not picking on you but merely using your comment illustratively.
Basically, I can see (if not totally understand) the fundamentalists POV. And reactions such as teh one above will only continue the spiral.
I also remember a discussion some time back where various people said that, if their loved ones were bombed/killed/whatever, then they would go to exact revenge.
And now people are turning around and condemning others for something that they freely admit that they would do? Do I smell double standards?
(BTW comments aren't aimed at anyone outright, I've had this discussion off the net as well as on it before).
I don't have the answer but I know that the answer isn't to saddle up and ride out. Because for every one of you, I'm fairly sure that there will be 10 people oppressed by the US (among others) and insited to hatred by their leaders ready to come back at you.
Its the same thing as happened in Germany pre WW2 with Hitler's brillaint leadership and political strategy.
Except this time, the militants are angry about everything from West-sponsored assassinations to the fact that GRAPHITE was banned in IRAQ and CHILDREN'S PENCILS are confiscated as you could apparently make weapons from the leads..... ????
:indiff:
:indiff:
is that an agreeing :indiff: or a "you're a troublesome young man and are about to be banned" :indiff: ?
is that an agreeing :indiff: or a "you're a troublesome young man and are about to be banned" :indiff: ?
Well I can guarantee you it was nothing at all about being banned, and I hope you were only joking about that :eek: :(
It was more of a - there's too much understanding and forgiveness in this world type :indiff: .
:)
shadowninja
19-06-2004, 14:55
Only scanned through so if this is already said then sorry...
I don't think they can pull out of Iraq now. There would be a MASSIVE civil war. Think Rwanda.
Martin T
19-06-2004, 15:29
Well I can guarantee you it was nothing at all about being banned, and I hope you were only joking about that :eek: :(
It was more of a - there's too much understanding and forgiveness in this world type :indiff: .
:)
:nod:
Leon, lets say one of your loved ones was on the plane invovled in the lockerbie disaster, would that make you want to kill every single arab in the world for what their government and a small number of individuals are responsible for?
You cannot defend the terrorists actions :indiff:
Its about time people stopped sympathising with evil scum and saved their symapthy for the victims perhaps.
Leon, lets say one of your loved ones was on the plane invovled in the lockerbie disaster, would that make you want to kill every single arab in the world for what their government and a small number of individuals are responsible for? You cannot defend the terrorists actions Its about time people stopped sympathising with evil scum and saved their symapthy for the victims perhaps
I totally agree... there can be no justification for events such as 9/11. Remember, a lot of the people who died in the towers were'nt even American and quite a few were Muslim... which goes against the claimed Muslim principles in itself.
Bayside Blue
19-06-2004, 18:52
They did it before too a while back to another hostage.
In May, kidnappers linked to al-Qaeda beheaded a 26-year-old American in Iraq, placing the images of the beheading on an Islamist website. :(
It does actually make me mad. Like if you ever saw one of them alone you would go all out on them, know this would make me as bad as them but i would so rip them a new one. :mad:
Im in configuration management on monday, gonna upgrade some missile systems! Shame we haven't yet got a terrorist / DNA seeker :wack:
gaz.thomas
19-06-2004, 18:52
Al Queda no more represent islam than an american tv evangelist represents christianity. Religion is, as has ever been so, simply used as a banner around which to rally those members of society that harbour pathological evil, intolerance, sadism and greed.
Gaz
-x-
Bayside Blue
19-06-2004, 18:54
heres some justice for you:
Saudi TV has broadcast photos of what it says is the body of a slain al-Qaeda leader, killed by security forces hours after he beheaded a US hostage. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3821153.stm)
Rude Dog
19-06-2004, 19:14
Erm... it happened in Saudi Arabia :wack:
Iraqs where its at though :indiff:
Rude Dog
19-06-2004, 19:26
Anyway my point over and above anything else was I havent contributed anything to world peace. In my own way I feel if I had done some time in the armed services I would have made a differance at some level or other. And my point about having a big fcuking gun was to take the terrorists on on their own soil instead of having them bring it to us.
I know what I want to say but am having difficulty putting it into something easily understandle. :(
My kids are going to grow up in a nasty hate filled cruel world and that makes me sad.
Bayside Blue
19-06-2004, 19:27
Anyone for turning iraq into a huge lake for watersports with one of these? I'm sure theres some aging blue steel somewhere that could be used. :wack:
http://www.captain-vulcan.freeuk.com/bs1.jpg
Iraqs where its at though :indiff:
But it isn't. When that fcuknuckle Bush couldn't find Osama he thought he'd make himself look good by going after an easier target such as Saddam, citing Weapons of Mass destruction, not oil, and under his breath, regime change, definitelty not oil at all, as his reasons. Did I mention he had no interest in the Iraqi oil fields? So yes, he toppled Saddam (and a statue of Saddam) but there were no weapons of mass destruction.
Now I wouldn't welcome people invading Britain for our oil and trying to change our regime, much as I hate the way Bliar runs things. Naturally some of the Iraqis are pissed off by the allied forces being there and it is the allied forces that are being targetted. So we should withdraw - let them sort it out for themselves. It would soon calm down - it's not like the balkans where they were all killing each other.
This headless guy though was just a western worker in Saudi. Minding his own business when he was kidnapped and decapitated. It is the other arab states such as Saudi where it is really "all at".
tim rome
19-06-2004, 20:42
a dozen feckin big nukes and take out the whole of the middle east
Bayside Blue
19-06-2004, 21:34
a dozen feckin big nukes and take out the whole of the middle east
That would sort things out :smash: :thumbs: just erase the problem all together
You cannot defend the terrorists actions :indiff:
Its about time people stopped sympathising with evil scum and saved their symapthy for the victims perhaps.
While I resent very little, I resent the implication.
I frevently and truly believe that people are NOT born this way and are made to act in the way that they do through prevalent conditions. Whether those conditions include religion, religious leaders, The American Empire or anything else.
And I believe in my heart that the beheading of that guy and Daniel Pearl plus countless others is wrong, deeply wrong. But I also believe that the people who did such things were driven to it.
You make me sound as those I'm becoming a collaborateur in the crimes, as tho I approve of them and endorse their motives. If that is what you think then you have got me very, very wrong.
I have sympathy for the victims and my heart goes out to their friends and family who have been treated to a sight and an event that never ever should have occured. This is something that they never should have lived through and that no-one should ever be subjected to and I resent the implication that I do not feel any sympathy towards them.
But I also understand that the perpetrators of these crimes are people, human beings, who want, fear, loathe and like just like the rest of us. And as fellow humans, I have a compassion for them.
This is no doubt due to my being a Buddhist. And hang me out to dry as such if it makes you feel any better.
Anyway my point over and above anything else was I havent contributed anything to world peace. In my own way I feel if I had done some time in the armed services I would have made a differance at some level or other.
At the risk of labouring my own point, become a Buddhist.
Perhaps you would have made a difference or perhaps you would have been called in to disperse a crowd of people blocking entrance to a petrol station in protest at the high prices. Or perhaps you would have been a navigator on a plane flying towards an Iraqi town filled with innocent women and children before dropping bombs in order to quell a few militants.
Who knows.
But you didn't join the military.
And, shock horror! There are other ways of contributing to world peace without coming near a gun.
It was more of a - there's too much understanding and forgiveness in this world type :indiff: .
:)
Oh dear, Sorry.
And I believe in my heart that the beheading of that guy and Daniel Pearl plus countless others is wrong, deeply wrong. But I also believe that the people who did such things were driven to it.
I stongly believe that to be bollox. At best they are self-indulgent, publicity seeking murdering bastards. The only language these people will understand is when we turn round and do the same to them, ie behead them publicly and humiliatingly when they are captured.
To say they are driven to it is a disgrace to the thousands and thousands of men and women, of whatever religion, who have suffered genuine hardship and pain, who go about making their protest in a dignified and law abiding manner.
I stongly believe that to be bollox. At best they are self-indulgent, publicity seeking murdering bastards. The only language these people will understand is when we turn round and do the same to them, ie behead them publicly and humiliatingly when they are captured.
To say they are driven to it is a disgrace to the thousands and thousands of men and women, of whatever religion, who have suffered genuine hardship and pain, who go about making their protest in a dignified and law abiding manner.
The point is (probably) that the "dignified and law abiding" protests have got nowhere.
Chop the head off someone or stick a plane into the towers, you get noticed.
Alternatively, closer to home. The IRA and their nail bombs. When law doesn't work, often the only seemingly viable recourse is dis-order.
And just one further thought... Can you behead someone humiliatingly? Only if you strip them naked and then tie them up with a feather boa.... ;)
The point is (probably) that the "dignified and law abiding" protests have got nowhere.
Chop the head off someone or stick a plane into the towers, you get noticed.
Oh well that's ok then. My protests at speed cameras are getting me knowhere so I'll go out and shoot a couple of dozen police men. That'll get my point accross :rolleyes: :mad:
And just one further thought... Can you behead someone humiliatingly? Only if you strip them naked and then tie them up with a feather boa.... ;)
What. So you don't think that beheading someone, filming it, publishing that film across the internet and accross TV screens the length and breadth of the Middle East, showing a man's fear, his final screams and pleas for mercy, stripping him of all dignity and possibly allowing his family to see it all as well, isn't humiliating?
Clearly I must be out of step with the rest of the civilised world on this then :rolleyes: :whip:
I stongly believe that to be bollox. At best they are self-indulgent, publicity seeking murdering bastards. The only language these people will understand is when we turn round and do the same to them, ie behead them publicly and humiliatingly when they are captured.
I agree with that sentiment, but the thing is (unfortunately) we are more civilised in the west and no matter how much we want to do this, some bleating, sandal-wearing, free-speech wusses, will tear on our heart-strings. :rolleyes:
Oh well that's ok then. My protests at speed cameras are getting me knowhere so I'll go out and shoot a couple of dozen police men. That'll get my point accross :rolleyes: :mad:
What. So you don't think that beheading someone, filming it, publishing that film across the internet and accross TV screens the length and breadth of the Middle East, showing a man's fear, his final screams and pleas for mercy, stripping him of all dignity and possibly allowing his family to see it all as well, isn't humiliating?
Clearly I must be out of step with the rest of the civilised world on this then :rolleyes: :whip:
Oh come on. Be reasonable! Speed cameras and the invasion of your county by someone only interested in hte oil rights?
Lets compare the size of a pea and the sie of teh earth, shall we?
Oh come on. Be reasonable! Speed cameras and the invasion of your county by someone only interested in hte oil rights?
Lets compare the size of a pea and the sie of teh earth, shall we?
This took place in Saudi Arabia. A country making billions each day out of the sale of it's own oil. A country which has not been invaded, which is a sovereign state. Get your facts right Leon ;)
And my analogy is no more rediculous than your point which made me use it.
This took place in Saudi Arabia. A country making billions each day out of the sale of it's own oil. A country which has not been invaded, which is a sovereign state. Get your facts right Leon ;)
And my analogy is no more rediculous than your point which made me use it.
Oh yes, so it did. Sorry, my mistake. Thats the thing with religion, it crosses no boundaries.
Just ban me, it will be easier LOL
Just ban me, it will be easier LOL
Please explain to me these constant references about being banned. Are you having a pop at me or the mods? Do you genuinely feel that you are going to be banned?
Please explain to me these constant references about being banned. Are you having a pop at me or the mods? Do you genuinely feel that you are going to be banned?
given the arguments i casue it is probably about time
given the arguments i casue it is probably about time
:rolleyes:
Don't be so soft :rolleyes:
given the arguments i casue it is probably about time
Ditch the sandals and put on some shoes. :rolleyes: In the words of Mrs Merton, it's a heated debate. There is no wrong and right, just differences of opinion. :rolleyes: I think we all agree that chopping someone's head off isn't a civilised way of conducting negotiations.
How do I apply for the diplomatic corps? :wack:
realityx
20-06-2004, 00:47
Quote:
Originally Posted by tim rome
a dozen feckin big nukes and take out the whole of the middle east
That would sort things out just erase the problem all together
That sounds like soemthing the terrorists themsleves would say ,
there,s nothing i h8 more then the kill em all bullchit you here from time to time,
why don,t you just fly over there, if you think killing a few iraqi,s will make you feel better? i,m sure you,ll get away with it.
why not just get a job in Abu gharib prison,
you know the one, where torture, rape and even murder where all done in the
name of freedom, your name and mine :thumbs:
Did you feel agreived about that issue as this poor bloke?
makes me and the other half of this country who were against the war proud to be british hay :wack:
the sooner were out of Iraq the better.
imo we should never have gone into there without a proper multinational
force under the UN, I wonder how different the after events may have been if that had been the case.
One things for sure, we aint winning no war on terror,and I dont think it,s totally possible, unlike a conventional war. and weve pretty much lost any higher moral ground we may have had with the Abu Gharib prison incidents amongst others.
I am not in any way defending these terrible actions, however....
The contractors working in Iraq and its 'at risk' neighbours all would have known the risks and would had the option to work there or leave. Many of them are driven by the high financial rewards.
I know a collegue who very recently went for an interview for an IT contract with the army in Iraq. The work wasn't taxing, he would have had loads of time off and got paid shedloads. Enough, in fact, to pay off his mortgage in the few months he would have been there. They offered him the job and he thought about it. He realised that, although HE didn't mind the risk, his family (parents and brother) would have been constantly worried about him the entire time he was there. If he took the contract he would have been incredibly selfish, especially if something happened to him along the lines of the recent hostage taking. He decided he couldn't put his family through that and turned it down.
I am not saying that these contractors asked for it. However, as I said, they knew the risks and were prepared to take them. In the same way that people who join the forces should be prepared to go to war if called upon. What I'm saying is that, although they did nothing wrong, they weren't innocent to the risks and the consequences to their families that go with those risks.
It is still appalling that any human being should do things like this to another. :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by tim rome
a dozen feckin big nukes and take out the whole of the middle east
That would sort things out just erase the problem all together
That sounds like soemthing the terrorists themsleves would say ,
there,s nothing i h8 more then the kill em all bullchit you here from time to time,
why don,t you just fly over there, if you think killing a few iraqi,s will make you feel better? i,m sure you,ll get away with it.
why not just get a job in Abu gharib prison,
you know the one, where torture, rape and even murder where all done in the
name of freedom, your name and mine :thumbs:
Did you feel agreived about that issue as this poor bloke?
makes me and the other half of this country who were against the war proud to be british hay :wack:
the sooner were out of Iraq the better.
imo we should never have gone into there without a proper multinational
force under the UN, I wonder how different the after events may have been if that had been the case.
One things for sure, we aint winning no war on terror,and I dont think it,s totally possible, unlike a conventional war. and weve pretty much lost any higher moral ground we may have had with the Abu Gharib prison incidents amongst others.
Good use of the English language. Well done :rolleyes:
We're all terrorists! :nod:
The only difference between us and Al-Quaede is that we can write the news, write the history, and have the money to make sure that we win.
Take, for example occupied France. They had terrorists, known as the French Resistance. Now, if Hitler hadn't been at war with the world, he would have had the time to wipe them out fully. It's only the fact that we won the war (and wrote the history) that means they are seen as freedom fighters and not terrorists! I can see NO difference between resistance to the Nazi occupation 60 odd years ago, and the Iraqi resistance. Even the tactics of targetting infrastructure and key personnel is the same!
Btw, we failed to win the peace in Iraq last time btw. WE tought the Iraqis how to quell rebellions by using chemical weapons! :rolleyes: And let's not forget who put Saddam in power in the first place.
In short, history is written by the winners, and we are very quick to forget the lessons of the past...
Rude Dog
20-06-2004, 01:48
I think we all agree that chopping someone's head off isn't a civilised way of conducting negotiations.
S'right.
Only Humans could be so Inhuman :(
Bayside Blue
20-06-2004, 13:58
Quote:
there,s nothing i h8 more then the kill em all bullchit you here from time to time.
:) wasn't being serious, was just joking if you kill everybody there won't be anybody left to fight... but their wont be any people left either :wack:
Quote:
I can see NO difference between resistance to the Nazi occupation 60 odd years ago, and the Iraqi resistance. Even the tactics of targetting infrastructure and key personnel is the same.
American and British soldiers are nothing like Nazi's, You don't see us exterminating hoards of iraqi's, sure civilians get killed but it's a war what do you expect, nothing like the ammount of casulties 50 years ago. The weapons are far, far more accurate. Take storm shadow for example its accurate to about half a metre squared and if you look at its size thats basically the area of the front of the missile. Admittedly the Americans should be a bit better at targetting them but from 400 miles away it is a bit of the problem and the missiles flight is based on intelligence before the mission. :)
We're not going to occupy, unlike the nazis either.
What are they doing anyway, if they want us out of the country they should put down their weapons rather that giving us reason to stay there longer to stabilize the country :whip: .
Martin T
20-06-2004, 16:43
I am not in any way defending these terrible actions, however....
The contractors working in Iraq and its 'at risk' neighbours all would have known the risks and would had the option to work there or leave. Many of them are driven by the high financial rewards.
I know a collegue who very recently went for an interview for an IT contract with the army in Iraq. The work wasn't taxing, he would have had loads of time off and got paid shedloads. Enough, in fact, to pay off his mortgage in the few months he would have been there. They offered him the job and he thought about it. He realised that, although HE didn't mind the risk, his family (parents and brother) would have been constantly worried about him the entire time he was there. If he took the contract he would have been incredibly selfish, especially if something happened to him along the lines of the recent hostage taking. He decided he couldn't put his family through that and turned it down.
I am not saying that these contractors asked for it. However, as I said, they knew the risks and were prepared to take them. In the same way that people who join the forces should be prepared to go to war if called upon. What I'm saying is that, although they did nothing wrong, they weren't innocent to the risks and the consequences to their families that go with those risks.
It is still appalling that any human being should do things like this to another. :(
Very true :nod:
Martin T
20-06-2004, 16:56
Leon - why are you so determined to symapthise with the terrorists.
You can get your way without violence - Take india for example. Now a democracy rather than a colony - and the protests were peaceful.
Even if someone had a shitty childhood or whatever other excuse people give them to commit crimes against people they still have the choice on their actions. There becomes a point where regardless of circumstances they are nasty motherf**kers plain and simple.
Plus whatever has happened to them is ceratinly not as bad as what they do for their victims.
If you worry too much about the criminals you end up with a criminal justice system like ours - where people that are a huge risk to society and are pretty much guarenteed to commit more crimes that cause an incredible amount of human suffering are let free etc with their human rights being considered more important than their soon to be victims. Like with that person that killed those 2 children when he ran a red light at very high speed and then ran off.
That was after having killed with a car before and having something like 40 previous convictions. He should have been locked up untill he could show at least very good reason to believe that he would not re offend.
Like with peadophiles that are released even though doctors state that they are incredibly likely to re offend - e.g. Roy Whiting killing Sarah payne.
This happens too much. Perhaps if people stopped sympathising with scum so much and started just seeing them as the animals they are then society would be a safer and happier place to live in.
[QUOTE=Bayside Blue]
American and British soldiers are nothing like Nazi's, You don't see us exterminating hoards of iraqi's, QUOTE]
You dont see, but it doesant mean its not happening, I dont trust America anymore than i trust mr bin laden, The media is only showing you what it wants to show you dont bealive everything you see on TV.
im not saying its true it probabley isnt but we dont know that, Bush popularity ratings drop and then somone gets beheaded on a vid ....everyone is behind america again......you never know thats all im saying
Leon - why are you so determined to symapthise with the terrorists.
You can get your way without violence - Take india for example. Now a democracy rather than a colony - and the protests were peaceful.
perhaps because i believe in the ability of people to be truly good.
its jsut the way i am
Rude Dog
20-06-2004, 18:57
perhaps because i believe in the ability of people to be truly good.
its jsut the way i am
I think you should believe in peoples ability to be nasty. Its far easier to be nasty and selfish than good :(
dexteruk
20-06-2004, 19:51
I had a chance to join the RAF as a weapons technician when I was 16.
hi there rude dog, i did join the RAF as a Weapons Technician (in '97) and spent 3 months over last christmas in Iraq doing bomb disposal.
i spent very little time on military bases (mainly just to sleep and eat) and the rest of the time in southern iraq - an area from Al Amarah southwards, including working in and all aound Basrah.
I found the majority of the Iraqi people i encountered were pretty pleased to see us, a lot of them appreciated the work we were doing, and many of them were amazed at finding *soldiers* (i couldn't get through to them that i was an airman ;) ) that they could come up and talk to without being attacked or beaten.
Obviously there were those who didn't want us there, they were the ones who shot at me or tried to blow me up - but none of them hung around long enough to discuss their objections so i can only make assumptions on it...
There is nothing that allied forces have done in this war that hasn't already been done in previous wars (but more so in the past) except that this time the weapons are massively more accurate, and civilian losses have been greatly reduced.
Combat is not a pleasant business - the very process of killing a father, a husband, a brother, a son is a nasty business - there is nothing heroic about it. However - i am a great believer that my life is far more important to me than anyone elses - especially if that someone else is trying to kill me or my colleagues.
Getting information from prisoners has never been a pleasant business - sadly people are never willing to give information that will hurt their colleagues and their aims, but if the alternative is to not get the information and lose my friends to another bomb, then i would have no hesitation in wanting to use all possible methods. In my eyes it is a matter of survival.
There is no need for us to execute prisoners - just as there is no need for anyone else to be executing hostages. That is inexcusable
As for the idea of nuking the whole place, i own't even stoop to give my opinion.
BTW - Hi i'm dex - pretty new to the forum, have met steve a couple of times when he fixed my good friends S14 (18psi on totally stock engine......)
i'm now looking at trying to sell my Golf so i can buy his S14 from him, if i do you will soon get bored of my lengthy posts and opinions
TTFN
Dex
Take, for example occupied France. They had terrorists, known as the French Resistance. Now, if Hitler hadn't been at war with the world, he would have had the time to wipe them out fully. It's only the fact that we won the war (and wrote the history) that means they are seen as freedom fighters and not terrorists! I can see NO difference between resistance to the Nazi occupation 60 odd years ago, and the Iraqi resistance. Even the tactics of targetting infrastructure and key personnel is the same!
I think this probably could'nt be more incorrect :indiff: how are the co-ilition forces anything like Nazi's?! France was a democracy before Germany invaded, Iraq was under a cruel hostile dictatorship. :confused:
People in Iraq are now able to express opinions, as before they were not. Exactly the opposite to wartime occupied france. :wack:
We're all terrorists! :nod:
The only difference between us and Al-Quaede is that we can write the news, write the history, and have the money to make sure that we win.
Take, for example occupied France. They had terrorists, known as the French Resistance. Now, if Hitler hadn't been at war with the world, he would have had the time to wipe them out fully. It's only the fact that we won the war (and wrote the history) that means they are seen as freedom fighters and not terrorists! I can see NO difference between resistance to the Nazi occupation 60 odd years ago, and the Iraqi resistance. Even the tactics of targetting infrastructure and key personnel is the same!
Btw, we failed to win the peace in Iraq last time btw. WE tought the Iraqis how to quell rebellions by using chemical weapons! :rolleyes: And let's not forget who put Saddam in power in the first place.
In short, history is written by the winners, and we are very quick to forget the lessons of the past...
Just shown this to the missus. Her reply went along the lines of:
:furious: :censored: :furious: :annoyed: :annoyed: :censored: :whip: :furious: :censored: :mad: :mad:
Which, roughly translates as 'bollocks' I believe. :)
And as this thread appears to be going nowhere, because people will always have different views on this I think I'll close it :)
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