power drifting with good f tyres

[s13silvia]

Hi, just a thought, as my car cant physically drift as it is really with the total understeer and no power or front grip to recover from the oversteer once the h-brake is pulled and no power to 'loose' the back wheels even on clutch dumping around 5.5+k once on the move after h-brake is pulled (due to crappy open diff I think) If I get a turbo and really REALLY shit tyres (my current ones) on the back and awesome grip tyres on the front should I be able to do power sliding to a good degree? What about left foot braking as opposed to heel-toe with changing to a lower gear prior to the corner, would this be better as im pretty new to doin this? (My left foot aint too heavy on the brake, its pretty good at control) ... and should I consider maybe a brake balance adjuster to make it more front biased? (along with bigger brakes, maybe 300zx ones course) ..... Let me know if im thinkin along the right lines................... ALSO would a 4wd skyline drivetrain with RWD lock (im assuming this means the choice to alternate between the two) be better for control 'power' drifting?
cheers
Dave

[SteveCarter200]

What about left foot braking as opposed to heel-toe with changing to a lower gear prior to the corner,

What you going to press the clutch with dude?



ALSO would a 4wd skyline drivetrain with RWD lock (im assuming this means the choice to alternate between the two) be better for control 'power' drifting?
cheers
Dave

Gonna be a big job to fit 4wd to your car.


TBH mate, the best thing you can do is get an LSD, some decent tyres on the front, shitters on the rear and then play with tyre pressures.

I presume you have some sort of lowered suspension? It'll help.

[s13silvia]

What you going to press the clutch with dude?
nah, like, if I change gear before corner comes up.... then use the left to brake then switch back to the clutch again?! or am i jus gunna end up in a grass island again :p





Gonna be a big job to fit 4wd to your car.


TBH mate, the best thing you can do is get an LSD, some decent tyres on the front, shitters on the rear and then play with tyre pressures.

I presume you have some sort of lowered suspension? It'll help.

Cool, nah i dont got lowered suspension, i like the soft ride, shame to loose it, but might be needed...... ill have to go for this LSD then :> u reccomend S14a one? I cant afford big fancy 2-way uns etc. Ill go for the tyres too when money allows.... cheers mate

[SteveCarter200]

Id go for an s13 LSD rather than s14 as its slightly shorter geared so will spin the wheels up easier.

Might be worth trying some ARBs if you prefer your suspension like a sofa:D but they will cost you £200 for front and rear rather than £100 for a set of springs.

Just get some shit part worn tyres from a scrappy or tyre dealer on the back and clutch kick it when youve got the LSD on it, should go sideways OK. Over inflate the rear tyres as well to promote oversteer, something like 35 front (so they dont roll) and 40 rear should be a good start I think.

[iKst]

My friend was drifting his e30 316i with 90hp, so i guess you have enough power. Try to be more agressive. More entry speed and agressive turn in should do the trick. You can also try scandy flick.
Since you dont have LSD powersliding wont do, you have to use "dynamic" drifting (as said in driftbible :))

[Tenman]

I've managed to drift a Skoda before with a 1400 engine, AND the engine is above the back wheels to make it harder to get em to kick out... was bloody hard work though, and not really possible at speeds above 2nd gear.

[astraboy]

*Try to be more agressive. More entry speed and agressive turn in should do the trick. You can also try scandy flick.
Since you dont have LSD powersliding wont do, you have to use "dynamic" drifting *
agreed. itspossible to drift lower power cars, itjust takes guts to throw the car into the turns at higher speed than power drifting all the way through with a massive clutch dump. Its more difficult, but it is possible.
astraboy.

[Bon Bon]

Quite possible...!

I only have 150bhp (maybe a bit less), an open diff, soft suspension and it's a bit lardy. 1) Rain. 2) Aggressive flicking at high speed (THIS ONE IS NOT FOR THE ROAD!!).

Go to a practise day and learn, there's one at Crail soon which Feisty Red Head needs to fill up (see her post further down). But to be honest you will want an LSD!

[s13silvia]

dynamic drifting
pmsl .... DONT mention those words! I nearly lost my car on the first corner of crail cuz o that! Thats the problem I had, you cant throw my car 'as it is' into a corner, it wont go, it goes straight on no matter how fast and hard you turn the wheel! Im gunna need some real tyres before I can do that stuff I think ..... it was funny, first corner (I was still workin out the course they had mapped out, and my mate was like 'left here, quick' .. so i let off the throttle, turn the wheel sharpish to the left like u normally would..... nothing, Im goin forward, island comin up; stamped the throttle, turned harder, still goin forward :eek: ; stamped on the brake a few times then tried to steer away .... erm, still goin forward :eek::eek: then it went like an offroad landrover course :( Grass, bumps, rocks, etc. etc.) Until I popped out the other end of the island, bumper in one piece thank god...... Ive got a perfect bit of footage which i might split into images and put on here, I tried to turn, it would NOT turn on any corner, so I change down, pull the h-brake for about 1 second or so.... it starts to swing wide, but then I dump clutch at high revs... and it jams (due to diff) n shudders (with some lovely mechanical noises) and then stops :( leaving me look a fool :P thing is, this happened no matter how slow i went...... only once did I pull it off, and it was soooo slow it could bearly be considered drifting........


cheers for that advice SC, ill conder the anti-roll bars (thts wot ARB's are right?) as i like soft suspension..... good for long drives which im always doin, and S13 LSD on its way when i get cash :)

[s13silvia]

also, and ill need a good bit of solid advice on this as ive read so many different things....... am i right in thinking this....... negative camber results in less tyre area on the road, so less grip but horrible tyre wear since the pressure of the weight is being applied to a smaller area... so negative camber on the back would result in a more tail happy rear? or is its the front that should be laden with negative camber? and if so.... why? Im wanting a car that when on track will handle much like a car on ice/ snow but in the dry/ damp ..... I can drift beautifully on the snow! Did it all round local towns and villiages, uphills downhills round corners, up streets down streets, much to the delight of all the onlookers :D I kinda assumed it would be similar in the dry..... errr.... no such luck eh

[Bon Bon]

I hate to say it but it really sounds mainly like your driving, if you're trying to drift by "steering" that's not going to work.


You need to weight shift, use very little steering but just flick the car, if you steer enough to break traction at the front then you'll not break traction at the rear without decent power. What you need to do is a little, aggressive FLICK and lift, wham bam out goes the back, boot it. It's almost impossible to describe really, the only way is to get someone who knows what they're doing to show you in your car.

[SteveCarter200]

I hate to say it but it really sounds mainly like your driving, if you're trying to drift by "steering" that's not going to work.


You need to weight shift, use very little steering but just flick the car, if you steer enough to break traction at the front then you'll not break traction at the rear without decent power. What you need to do is a little, aggressive FLICK and lift, wham bam out goes the back, boot it. It's almost impossible to describe really, the only way is to get someone who knows what they're doing to show you in your car.

Yep. Ive tried drifting my s12 (no LSD, 130ish bhp) and it was hard work. It took me ages how to figure it out because the fecker kept understeering. It was fine between bends, basically feint drifting it, but getting it sideways into a fastish corner from a straight was bitch. What I ended up doing was hammer up to the bend just in 3rd, flick left (it was a right hand bend), turn right and shift down to 2nd at the same time to shift lock it and then just plant the power. It was tricky but it worked.

[SteveCarter200]

also, and ill need a good bit of solid advice on this as ive read so many different things....... am i right in thinking this....... negative camber results in less tyre area on the road, so less grip but horrible tyre wear since the pressure of the weight is being applied to a smaller area... so negative camber on the back would result in a more tail happy rear? or is its the front that should be laden with negative camber? and if so.... why? Im wanting a car that when on track will handle much like a car on ice/ snow but in the dry/ damp ..... I can drift beautifully on the snow! Did it all round local towns and villiages, uphills downhills round corners, up streets down streets, much to the delight of all the onlookers :D I kinda assumed it would be similar in the dry..... errr.... no such luck eh

One thing to note, drift cars with loads of neg camber on the front will naturally understeer because there is less tyre contact on the front. They have to be made to drift, they wont do it if you just drive into a bend normally. However they have better grip when in a drift as the extra camber gives a larger footprint when the car is leaning and opposite lock is applied.

Rear camber should be fairly straight, maybe 1-2 degrees.

Set up a car on GT3 and just change the camber settings to see what I mean.

[cptsideways]

All you need is a practice day

[Genjuro]

I agree a practice day should help you out i'm sure. That said though have you not tried using the handbrake to initiate the drift ala drift bible? I found this worked pretty well for me at first.

I'm kind of hoping i can get some help when i go to Andover in a couple of weeks, although i have no problems getting sideways i just can't control it and spin all the time. :(

[Sx Drifter]

http://www.driftsession.com/technique.htm

:thumbs:

[s13silvia]

hammer up to the bend just in 3rd, flick left (it was a right hand bend), turn right and shift down to 2nd at the same time to shift lock it and then just plant the power. It was tricky but it worked.

hmm, good idea, ill give that a try, given i can get the back wheels to spin on doin the shift lock


All you need is a practice day

been to crail to try it, massive laughs from the crowd on the slow as hell entrance speeds and then spinnin out after the corner at about 10mph.... and one person said (caught on my video), i know whats wrong, its because hes using his handbrake the 'daftie', other guy says, i know eh, cant drift atall wi that....... erm... ok..... :ghey:lord... anyways, I ended up gettin a little bit used to it tho, so another time would be good once my cars setup better


have you not tried using the handbrake to initiate the drift ala drift bible?

ehh, yup.... needed to ....... heres the scene man, you go towards a corner pretty fast; you turn left hard, the car carries on towards the crash barrier/ field/ cow etc. you change down, put in the clutch, rev it up hard and pop it,, the wheels jam and the car shudders to a slower speed, there is no loss of traction... and no turning, so you need to pull the handbrake to turn.. but cant control it by throttle control or otherwize because theres too much traction at back so the wheels just seem to force you to slow down to a stop and you end up facing the completely wrong way :( I need lsd and better suspension............................... hey, what do youz think of ebay 'tien or otherwize' camber kits? are they safe? are they worth anything?

[s13silvia]

by the way people, when I had better grip, I used to be able to feint drift to a large extent on a striaght in the dry! like id come out of a junction in 1st on a wide road, nail it in first towards the other edge of the road, then clutch in, turn right harshly and dump it goin into 2nd and it would loose traction then, and it would go side to side to side for aslong as I wanted it to just by controllin the throttle..... so it used to do something right :)

[samoht]

Do you have a CA18DE Silvia ? Mine is also non-turbo, but with the SR20DE.
Also open diff, stock sofa suspension etc.

Hmm.. I had snow tyres on mine, I went into a corner hard and lifted off as I turned in (doing about 60 in 3rd I think). The engine braking caused the tail to slide out to around 60 degrees. As it was by accident on a busy main road (!), I just gathered it up, however I imagine that under controlled circumstances, had I floored it I could have prolonged a bit of a drift.

So.. even with rubbish tyres front and rear, I managed to get very sideways. I think engine braking is really good, because it really shifts grip to the front tyres.

Rain is good, I've had the tail come out nicely exiting hairpins in 2nd at full throttle with a bit of damp on the road.

[s13silvia]

hmmm .. mine has done a wee bit o sideways here and there, but just not when i was on circuit, or to a controllable extent. First time I ever tried to overtake a car it went sideways :eek: an experience I dont want to happen again may i add. Shame on me for goin at it like i used to in my civic, i didnt realise quite how different the FR was to FF ... I think a major problem is that i want my car to stay in one piece! so subconciously im not goin as hard as I could... in the civic I stared death in the face soooo many times, but now im wanting to acctually keep the car (and me too) in one piece.... Well see..... first things first anyway, a turbo engine to replace my crap one, and an S13 diff and tyres... well see how it goes from there peoples.... then i put my car back on the road :D
thanks for all the advice :thumbs: