Clubman series - How would it work?

[yeager]

Seeing as many agree that we should ask Option to create a series out of the Clubman class we should debate it first and see what everyone thinks is the best way to go about it. These are my thoughts...

I would envisage that the series be run exactly the same as the pro round. Same points and same 5-3-1 final runs. However the prizes obviously would be a lot less. Infact because I know money is an issue for Option as well as us (I think they actually made a loss on round 2) it would make sense to just award the Clubman round winner as they do now.

At the end of the year the top driver or maybe the top 3 with the most points would then promote to the pro series. It would need to be structured so the Clubman series didn't loose all the good drivers and the Pro series didn't end up packed.

If you have two series, how would you specify who goes in which? I'm unsure. It's obvious that there are about 6/8 Pro drivers already, would Option make the decision to define the current Pro drivers and then rely on each year of the Clubman series to provide new ones? If so, and if only one driver from the Clubman series were to be promoted, then the Pro series might become static. You really want the top 3 Clubman drivers going up to the Pro. What then happens after a few years and the Pro series gets too busy? It might be that after 3/4 years the sport here has grown so much that it can become a two day event which would allow for more drivers in the Pro series.

I would happily not enter the Pro rounds and stay in Club, maybe Will would also like to do the same.

Once we've discussed this in detail i'll draw up a mail from the thread and post it here for review before sending it off to Option, that is if anyone doesn't mind the mail coming from me? I don't want to put myself in a light where i'm seen to be trying to organise/control anything, I would just like to facilitate and collate peoples views so we can improve the sport.

[Mitch]

Is that so you can kick our amateur asses over and over? :D :D
It's a good idea, Si, otherwise there'll be no drivers left in Clubman :nod:

[Mitch]

In a couple of years, there'll be just me!!

[yeager]

Is that so you can kick our amateur asses over and over? :D :D
It's a good idea, Si, otherwise there'll be no drivers left in Clubman :nod:

Mate, I think my win was very close and a lot of luck involved. Also the quality of drifting compared to the round before was far better so it's not me you wanna worry about :) But seriously lets discuss if a Clubman series would work...

[Genjuro]

In a couple of years, there'll be just me!!

Don't worry, i'll still be there battling for 2nd last place! :thumbs:

I definatly like the idea of a clubman series though, it would give real inspiration to people as if they could get points they could see how they had done over the season compared to others plus it would highlight those drivers like Paul Smith and Astraboy who have got to the top 5 twice now, but have nothing for it.

As i have said elsewhere maybe someone from outside could shuffle the clubman and pro competiors up a bit as i'm pretty sure that some of the pros would have been better off in clubman and vice versa. Maybe there should be some sort of rule like you can only drive in pros if you have finished in at least the top 5 once in the clubman series.

The only other problem is going to be that soon the standard is going to be high enough to put new people off entering. To make encourage people maybe there should be a 'most improved since last round' award to encourage people who might not make the top 5 but might have improved alot.

[yeager]

...Paul Smith and Astraboy who have got to the top 5 twice now, but have nothing for it.

This is EXACTLY one of the reasons the Clubman series would work well...

[SteveCarter200]

Reduce the prizes per round so that a Clubman series can be paid for. Maybe just an HKS voucher and a cap, something like that. Keep the big prizes for the series winners (of both Pro and Clubman). Prizes must be larger for the Pro series though. Prizes for 1st, 2nd & 3rd of each class.

At the start of the season (or competitors first round) they decide which series they want to enter. They then have to compete in that series for the rest of the season.

As Si said, have the 3 Clubman series winners moved into the Pro series for the next year. Concerns about the Pro class becoming too busy are, well, silly.:p The sport & organisation will have to accomodate this. A sport wont grow if the number of participants is purposely limited.

More tracks are needed, so that a different one can be used for some of the rounds. Possibly have the Clubman class on a slower circuit, perhaps Stowe Circuit as I suggested on the other thread. At least this would allow plenty of time for both classes to be run on the same day.

[sidewaysrob]

I completely agree with the clubman series.
It will encourage people to join and persist.

I agree with all the points raised.

I would love to take part, but finances are an issue. I'm also a little concerned about how the points are awarded. It's clear from a previous thread that points are awarded for speed and angle, as well as linking etc.

However, drifting a mid-ship is completely different from FR. I have more traction on the rear, and less power than standard s13's. I also can't hold large angles due where the weight in the car is.
For theses reasons I feel as though I will score less points than others, even though I could argue that holding the drift is much harder.

If a cubman series is to work, than it must cater for all the people entering, no matter what car they decide to use.

I really enjoy drifting my MR2, it's a challenge and it's unforgiving.

[yeager]

However, drifting a mid-ship is completely different from FR. I have more traction on the rear, and less power than standard s13's. I also can't hold large angles due where the weight in the car is.
For theses reasons I feel as though I will score less points than others, even though I could argue that holding the drift is much harder.

If a cubman series is to work, than it must cater for all the people entering, no matter what car they decide to use.

I really enjoy drifting my MR2, it's a challenge and it's unforgiving.

I agree, how does it work in Japan I wonder? Also recently I was reading an article where a FWD car won a drift event! So surely there is an example to follow here, can anyone research or contact people that know how the scoring works in JP and the US? They must have hit these problems as well and resolved them.

[yeager]

I also added a poll so we can get a feel for what the opinion is...

[Genjuro]

I'm pretty certain that Pazza described the Japanese D1 scoring somewhere in this forum a little while back. Unfortunatly i don't remember what he said apart from the bit about there being points awarded for doing something special or wild, ie putting the rear wheels in the dirt off the track.

[SteveCarter200]

Personally I think its too late to make any major chages to D1 this year as we are a 3rd of the way through the season, like introducing the clubman series, as prizes, time and organisation would need to be ammended and sorted out.

Small things can be changed though like not forcing a Clubman winner to become a Pro and scoring the top 3 in each Clubman event as an unofficial series competition, purely for the benefit of the competitors.

[astraboy]

I like it the way it is. :thumbs:
astraboy.

[Matt_S]

Well, like all good things, they come to those who wait :thumbs:

This HAS to be the way forward. This time next year (maybe 2006) we'll be discussing the next Class. (To fill in between Clubman and Pro Classes - or go above Pro)...

Eventually, the classes will be so packed that you would have to either have them both on different days or have them on different tracks. Im confident that it will getthat popular. For now, there needs to be a class to break into (Clubman) and then you graduate as and when you win that series. Unless some people like the whole "stardom" of being in the Pro Series :rolleyes: so would be happy at the step up after winning one day in Clubman...

IMHO we need to sort this asap. Save the doh for the playstaions every six weeks and make it a series, not a one day affair - the final prizes can reflect the class champ :thumbs:

In future, like I say, we will need another series, or bring back amateur and make clubman the buffer in between Amateur and Pro class. WHy did the name change anyway?

In all honesty, good as some of our boys are, the "Pros" in Japan are in a totally different league.


Hmm, just realised they call it Pro GP Drift or summat :rolleyes: )


My 2p


GO SI! :thumbs:

[Bon Bon]

I reckon we could make the clubman more flexible than the pro, pro could be judges give no allowances for anything, if you're good, you're good, if you're bad, you're bad. Clubman they could make car allowances, I think this would attract a lot of people who can't afford high powered cars for one reason or another, or cars with open diffs. In other words, I would win every event, because my car has crap 17 year old suspension, an open diff, and no power, oh and I'm young and inexperienced. :thumbs: Sounds good to me.

But seriously, if clubman had some allowances for the car that entered it would be more the newcomer/budget class, which would be great, and then pro would be tougher too which would just up the ante even further for the really skilled guys.

I think we'd need some sort of qualifying session for the clubman and pro, it's the only way to do it really. I mean I know people who will claim to get the arse out in their cars when I'm telling them what I do, like they're trying to slag me off for being so silly to go to a track to do it. Then I show them the drift videos of my car from some of the practise venues, and they go a bit silent and seem to realise that actually, they should shut up. The point I'm making is you can't self-judge, some people will think they're great when they have a lot to learn, some people will think they're no good when they're actually excellent. Etc.

[PulsatingStar]

But how do you judge allowance based on car? I really cant see it happening.

[Bon Bon]

Well judging is an element of opinion by nature anyway.

I mean, if you had someone in an old Starlet with 60 hp or something VS an S15 with 400hp and full drift spec suspension, and they both drifted equally well, both linked the corners, etc (not that that's going to happen, but theory) then who would you award the win?? Equally? That would be silly.

[Matt_S]

But how do you judge allowance based on car? I really cant see it happening.

I know of a few Mk4 escorts running Cossie running gear. RWD the lot! Would the judges know of such a car running, or just be AMAZED that a FWD escort mk4 can drift so well :wack: