Legal question (employment)

[Gary]

I don't know if this is a good place to ask this, but I hope someone can put me in the right position.

I got made redundant from my company on the 5th May, this becomes active from the 20th May.

I have since then been a very naughty boy, and I knew all the Admin passwords and things to get into my companies network and emails.

I have found proof on the emails that my company are :

a) Hiring someone to go in my place, this will be within 6 months
b) Telling recruitment agencies that I am rubbish at my job and not to offer me a position.

I am fairly sure that all the information I have found is completely worthless though, because if I confront them with it I will be guilty of the Computer Misuse act.

Also they gave me a letter and in it, I have only just noticed that they are giving me £500 and that is to be a full and final settlement against any claims against the company, yet I have not signed anything to say I agree to that. If they give me the money, and then hire someone in the next 6 months, would I still have a case?, or would them giving me £500 negate that (even though I never even knew they were doing it, neither did they let me sign for it.)

I know it's a lot to ask, but if anyone has any views, that would be cool.

(this post is on a completely hypothetical basis, and all contents within are towards a fictional scenario)

[Codemonkey]

I don't know if this is a good place to ask this, but I hope someone can put me in the right position.

I got made redundant from my company on the 5th May, this becomes active from the 20th May.

I have since then been a very naughty boy, and I knew all the Admin passwords and things to get into my companies network and emails.

I have found proof on the emails that my company are :

a) Hiring someone to go in my place, this will be within 6 months
b) Telling recruitment agencies that I am rubbish at my job and not to offer me a position.

I am fairly sure that all the information I have found is completely worthless though, because if I confront them with it I will be guilty of the Computer Misuse act.

Also they gave me a letter and in it, I have only just noticed that they are giving me £500 and that is to be a full and final settlement against any claims against the company, yet I have not signed anything to say I agree to that. If they give me the money, and then hire someone in the next 6 months, would I still have a case?, or would them giving me £500 negate that (even though I never even knew they were doing it, neither did they let me sign for it.)

I know it's a lot to ask, but if anyone has any views, that would be cool.

If there is information about you in the company's computers, you have the right to demand it under the data protection act. They are allowed to charge you a nominal fee. This includes data which is stored on an email server - so any emails which are about you are fair game. Most companies keep email logs for quite a while.

Mark Thomas did this to the Home Office (I think), with rather hilarious results as he read out a load of internal emails about him on national telly. "Don't talk to this b*stard" etc...

It's illegal to make you redundant then hire someone else to fill your position. I'm not entirely sure about the specifics of this, but that's the general idea. We had some redundancies here a while back, then the company wanted to hire a load of people when they got some money. They had to offer the people who were made redundant their jobs back before they could hire new people.

I'm not a lawyer, so anyone who knows better please correct the above. :)

[Jonny]

a) I'm not 100% on this, but I think the period in which you can hire someone with the same job title after someone's been made redundant is 6 months... Usually they just change the job title to get round it tho...

b) ring up one of the recruitment agencies and ask them? They are generally a cut throat bunch, they don't care if someone is good or not, as long as they get their fees... Failing that just say that someone at an agency told you, but you have no proof...

Actually... Pay the data protection agency a tenner for the information that your company has on you... This should include all emails that mention you :thumbs: Then go do them for defamation :D

[Jonny]

I
Mark Thomas did this to the Home Office (I think), with rather hilarious results as he read out a load of internal emails about him on national telly. "Don't talk to this b*stard" etc...


Beat me to it...

It was the MOD that Mark Thomas did - there were some great ones that he read out...

'did you see the mark thomas show last night, was f'ing funny etc'

:)

[Insomniac]

You didn't mention which industry you work in but there should be some sort of industry tribunal you can take them to over this. But whatever you do, don't tell anyone what you did!!!

If you do try to take them to a tribunal over this then be aware that you may get nowhere because most employers nowdays are sharp enough to get around the law (as my father found out last year).

[chris250]

b) Telling recruitment agencies that I am rubbish at my job and not to offer me a position.


this is completely illigal, it's is deformation of character. not only that it is illigal for any company to give a bad refferance, if they have nothing good to say then all they can do is refuse to refer you.

not sure on actual legalities but i would ask for all e-mails and information that the company has under the data protection act then take it to the citizens advise beauro (SP?) and they can advise you on how to take it further.

[Adam_AE86]

are you rubbish at your job ?? and did they give you a reason for laying you off?

Hows mr2 ownership going ??

Adam

[TomM]

are you rubbish at your job ?? PMSL :D I was about to post something like this! :D


Go get 'em legally, Paz! :thumbs: It would be amusing for them to have to give you a wad of emails that drop them in it!

[brucy]

what would happen (i hope it doesn't) if they deleated those e-mails? so Gary would know they existed, but shouldn't so maybe can't say he knows they exist :confused:

[Gary]

I wasn't rubbish at my job, I had to teach three of the members there how to use DTS Views.

Obviously this is all hypothetical, but would of saved forementioned emails and printed out hard copies.

Going to try the Data Protection people, see if I can get them to release it, how do they know if they releasing everything?

Cheers

[Insomniac]

how do they know if they releasing everything?
Simply, they don't. Initially your company would be asked to hand over the information, they'd refuse, then they'd give in. At which point you'll probably find the offending emails aren't there.

You'd probably have to take it to the courts to get everything, even then I'm sorry to say I can't really see it getting to that point.


what would happen (i hope it doesn't) if they deleated those e-mails?
This is where the backups come in. It all depends on how they run their systems, but I can almost guarantee you that there will be various copies of those email on backup tapes. They'd have to be pretty ruthless to get them all.

If, hypothetically speaking, you did know where these emails were, and did make backups of them somewhere on their system that they wouldn't find them. Then maybe that would be a good idea. Hypothetically speaking.

I'm away in Edinburgh all day tomorrow for some rubbishy Microsoft Roadshow thingy, but I'll talk to our DPA guy on Friday and see what he's got to say.

-Andrew

[Martin T]

Ypu got in by knowing all of the admin passwords? How did you get them. If you just happened to innocently "come across them" e.g. overheard and also dod NOT change anythingm, I am 95% sure you are guilty of no offense!
However you cannot change anything on the compromised machines!

Go for the DP act angle, and when they feed you bullshit, challenge them saying someone else had provided you with the emails. And SHOW them the offending ones.
Also find out who they sent them to. See if you have a witness.
They are guilty of Libel if you can prove the emails are bollox and slander is they are also talking shit. There is no limit to damages for this.

[Martin T]

what would happen (i hope it doesn't) if they deleated those e-mails? so Gary would know they existed, but shouldn't so maybe can't say he knows they exist :confused:
Nothing is completely deletable.
Unless they fancy formatting all of their HDD's 19 times.
Unfortunately, data recovery is expensive :(

[karlF]

IIRC when you delete a file on a computer it only severs the link from the icon to the hard disk. Unless you format the hard drive (which even then only scrambles it) the files can still be retrieved.

But then again I could be wrong.

[Martin T]

IIRC when you delete a file on a computer it only severs the link from the icon to the hard disk. Unless you format the hard drive (which even then only scrambles it) the files can still be retrieved.

But then again I could be wrong.
Yes it only deletes the pointers to the files. formatting just more or less replaces the whole lot with zeros.
I could go into the theory behind data recovery but cant be arsed and I doubt anyone here that doesn't know would be arsed to read it :wack:

[Jester]

Yes it only deletes the pointers to the files. formatting just more or less replaces the whole lot with zeros.
I could go into the theory behind data recovery but cant be arsed and I doubt anyone here that doesn't know would be arsed to read it :wack:

being a bit sad here but i am actually interested and it is relatent...


with regards to u saying looking at them isnt breaking any law, funnily or not it is breaking data protection level 1 as they were "unskilled" and "feel upon info they shouldnt have had access to" usually this is just slap on the wrists but its hard trying to prove it was an accident and how managed to accidently type correct password. Best thing to do is log on as someone else who has access and just print out.

[chris250]

Yes it only deletes the pointers to the files. formatting just more or less replaces the whole lot with zeros.
I could go into the theory behind data recovery but cant be arsed and I doubt anyone here that doesn't know would be arsed to read it :wack:

i've only just found out how all thisworks since buying a 1gig memory card for my camera :eek: , isn't all that boring if your techy but then i got a very simplyfied version from the image recovery programme for the card

[Jester]

how does it work then?! pm me if u dont wanna post

[chris250]

remember this is for a memory card for a camera not a computer and is really simplified so even i understand it, also i'm having to type it all out so typo's are garuntied and unless really bad i won't sort them :p


memory card basics
if you have lost an imageand need to recover the data on a card, it's importantto imediately stop using it in a camera, and run Image Rescue 2.0 to recover it

in most cases,the data has not actually been lost untill it has been overwritten. the more you continue to use a card after you realise you need to recover data on it the more likelyit is that the data will be overwittten and you will not be able to recover lost files.

data is written to cards in random locations. if you only fill a cardhalf way up before you download and delete images you will not always use the same sectors on the card (e.g. the first 256mb of a 512mb card). every time you delete filesor reformat the card, the file system is updated to show the previously used sections of memory to be free and can be overwritten when needed.

in the case of image files, partial images may remain on your cardeven after it's been formatted. this occours only when the deleted files have not been fully over written with new information. therefore, when you perform an extensive search in Image Recovery mode, partial images may be recovered.

the secure erase feature actually overwrites every sector on the card with fixed pattern of 1's or 0's and reformats the card clean. since all of the sectors in the card have been overwritten, it is impossible to retrieve any data from the card after secure erase.

[jimbo]

Hachi, was talking to a girl friend who worked in employment law. She was of the opion that as you had the passwords (assuming you were given the passwords) and that they gave you the ability to read the emails then they're screwed. Even if you weren't given the passwords then the courts would still look favourably on you.

[GrahamB]

Get to CAB NOW:thumbs:

I am currently taking my former employer to ET (Employment Trubunal)

You have 3 months from the date you end your employment to lodge a claim with an ET. The form you need is an ET1 (CAB will have one).

How long have you worked for the company? This has a bearing on how they can treat you as well.

To me it looks like you have a pretty good case though I would keep the emails you have as evidence as the Tribunal may take those into account.

[Mint_Sauce]

If your company deletes the mails, you should get them from the recruitment agency instead :nod:

[Raja Was]

hi mate

firstly i have not read all the replies that people have posted, and nor am I familiar with all the facts, but some general points will not go a miss:

Wot wld u like to claim for? Unfair dismissal, wrongful dismissal or perhaps a redundancy claim? - what would u like – this will also depend on the facts of your particular case.

U may have a common law claim as well as a statutory right to present a claim of redundancy for example. . However, not all employees are eligible to do this as there are certain ‘eligibility factors’ that you must fall into, viz, how long u hv wrked there, have u been dismissed, do u hv continuous employment, do u fall within the age limits, have u contracted out of any statutory rights, and that u do not fall within any of exclude professions.

In order for u to make a claim, for example of redundancy (Which is your right providing u hv over 2 yrs continuous work) u hv to show all the above factors – the redundancy must fall into the legal definition.

if u wish u can mail me and I will be able to help in more detail.

Finally, do note that you do not have all the time in the world to bring about a claim!!!!

good luck! :thumbs:

[Gary]

Thanks for all the replies, it is appreciated.

I have since checked and the emails relating to slagging me off to recruitment agencies seem to of dissapeared... however I can still see they are advertising to replace me with someone else.

I had only served there for 1 year and 11 months, so I am not eligable for a claim, however they are paying me £500 and in the letter it said that was a full and final settlement to any further claims against the company... however I have signed nothing to say I agree to that, and thats what I was more confused about.

Anyways, Cheers so far :)

[Raja Was]

HI again

Not all doom and gloom!

u hv been dismissed 1 yr and 11 mths as u say.

there is however, a provison in law which ensures that employers do not deprive employees of their staturtory rights by dismissing them just before they reach the qualifiying period to present any claim(s). - again it is a matter to see if you fit into this.

do u nt hv to agree to the £500. pehaps are may be entiltied to more(!) - depends once again on your circumsatances.

so, pehaps u can look into depth in this matter.

Raja Was :thumbs: