My Web Site

[The Artist]

If anyone has a spair moment will they have a look at my site to make sure everything is working ok and see how it looks.

I know its very basic etc but its a start.....


http://www.btinternet.com/~english_artist/index.html

[ATrull]

Yikes! Much cleaner now ! :)

[Matty T]

Had a quick look around, clicked on all the links etc.. all seemed to work fine for me :thumbs:

[Mint_Sauce]

All works for me. :nod: If you want feedback i'd say that more time could be spent on the design side as that's what your selling. Things like the buttons on the left. The site feels a little cluttered to me as well. I'm a whore for simplicity and basic layouts though :)
Generally it's fine as it shows exactly what your selling but if you want feedback that's just my 2p's worth, hope it helps. :D

[The Artist]

All works for me. :nod: If you want feedback i'd say that more time could be spent on the design side as that's what your selling. Things like the buttons on the left. The site feels a little cluttered to me as well. I'm a whore for simplicity and basic layouts though :)
Generally it's fine as it shows exactly what your selling but if you want feedback that's just my 2p's worth, hope it helps. :D

Yeah thanks for that....well I'm an artist but I have always been hopeless at web sites. Try to make them simple as possible. I am not trying to sell 'design' as such just a few T-Shirts etc....as you will notice I dont even use 'proper' web site design software.

[ATrull]

All works for me. :nod: If you want feedback i'd say that more time could be spent on the design side as that's what your selling. Things like the buttons on the left. The site feels a little cluttered to me as well. I'm a whore for simplicity and basic layouts though :)
Generally it's fine as it shows exactly what your selling but if you want feedback that's just my 2p's worth, hope it helps. :D

and big coloured buttons kinda died in the late 90s ;)

[Mint_Sauce]

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend. I think I should just shut my fat gob. :o

[Rude Dog]

All good John. Apart from the obvious mistake here

"Please be patient this page May take a short while to load."

I'll let you figure it out :D

Everyones a critic eh? :rolleyes:

BTW loved the top left picture on the other art page. How much does summat like that cost then??? SXOC discount? :D

[The Artist]

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend. I think I should just shut my fat gob. :o

No...No....no offence taken. I mainly wanted to make sure it actually worked at all. But I dont keep up with any trends in web site design I just slap it together, just tried to make it fun and easy going.....that's why I choose the 'Big coloured 80's buttons' if I could not take advice I would not ask for it......

[The Artist]

All good John. Apart from the obvious mistake here

"Please be patient this page May take a short while to load."

I'll let you figure it out :D

Everyones a critic eh? :rolleyes:

BTW loved the top left picture on the other art page. How much does summat like that cost then??? SXOC discount? :D

I'm to tired to work it out....spelling/gramar or the fac that the whole site take AGES to load... :D .....Thats something else I dont get right. The size of the pictures...but saying that you lot with broadband need NOT complain :rolleyes:

The the pic you mentioned sold a long while back.....but it went for £60 for the original if I remember right.

[Rude Dog]

The M in May is a capital. Thats all :D
Well selling the originals no bloody good. Demand it back so I can buy it off you :furious:
Have you got a print? Please say yes :nod:

[The Artist]

The M in May is a capital. Thats all :D
Well selling the originals no bloody good. Demand it back so I can buy it off you :furious:
Have you got a print? Please say yes :nod:


I did have a few prints knocking around but I will have to look see if I still have them........I could do you a print from a photo I have....quality might not be brilliant but you could have it...

[Rude Dog]

If the qualitys not so good can you do some effect or other to make it look "moody" on purpose? But thats irrelevant coz your gonna find a print arent you :D :thumbs: :nod:

[The Artist]

If the qualitys not so good can you do some effect or other to make it look "moody" on purpose? But thats irrelevant coz your gonna find a print arent you :D :thumbs: :nod:


I'll see waht I can find for you.......funny really because as soon as I sold that I regreted it.....my dad loved it and I wished I had given it to him. Its a painting of my home village and were my dad grew up...

[The Artist]

and big coloured buttons kinda died in the late 90s ;)

Yep I agree with that....changed them....will upload tonight. Plus changed the logo....thanks for advice

[The Artist]

Ok...changed it now........looks a little diffeent...removed the BIG coloured buttons :thumbs:

[Aitch]

I thought you were originally planning a link to your old website and all your art type stuff? :confused:

[ATrull]

Ok...changed it now........looks a little diffeent...removed the BIG coloured buttons :thumbs:

Looks much smarter now :D

The Crew Logo looks a big pixelated, btw.

[The Artist]

Looks much smarter now :D

The Crew Logo looks a big pixelated, btw.


Yeah I know mate.........planning on sorting that very soon. Had a few problems again...... :)

Aitch - yeah I was at first but then I thought I may be pushing my limit.....so I thought I would add a few pages of examples of my work...I have one on now under 'Other Work'. Ive been wanting to change my site for ages so when I started doing the shirts I thought this would be a good time.

[The Artist]

Oh.....nearly forgot....

:Plug:

[seb]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!

I'd just typed a HUGE reply to this, only to accidentally hit backspace when this textarea had lost the focus, making my browser go back a page and losing it all :(

[The Artist]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!

I'd just typed a HUGE reply to this, only to accidentally hit backspace when this textarea had lost the focus, making my browser go back a page and losing it all :(


Crap when that happens.............so was it a nice reply or not..... :(

[seb]

abridged version:

1) correct the bad english, lose unecessary capitals in body text and rephrase soem sentances that don't make sense.

2) make fonts the same site-wide - at the moment you have a mix of big/small/serif/sans-serif etc - try to keep all headings the same, all paragraphs the same etc.

3) lose the centre-aligned. It looks amateurish, and it's hard to read.

4) lose the coloured text. It looks amateurish, and it's hard to read. Try boxes with a pale background instead on text you want to stand out. Just an idea.

5) give your pages meaningful titles - e.g. "The Crew Designs" instead of "index" and "The Crew Designs: contact us" etc :)

6) lose the graphical buttons on the left - they can be replaced by plain text and look identical, those 8 graphics just waste bandwidth.

7) scrap your editor and either tackle the steep curve of hand coding or at least use a decent editor like Dreamweaver MX.

[seb]

Crap when that happens.............so was it a nice reply or not..... :(

Nope, you're asking for criticism so that's what I'm giving :) I like to think if I put up a bad drawing you'd return the favour - nothing worse than people just sayign "yep, it's lovely" out of politeness! ;)

[seb]

At the end of the day, if I came across that website I can't see that I'd pay any money for a tshirt, it's silly but the blatant amateurism of the site puts me off - I think you should work on it a fair bit more before you launch it - there's no rush after all, good things come to those who shove their nose in a few books :)

[The Artist]

At the end of the day, if I came across that website I can't see that I'd pay any money for a tshirt, it's silly but the blatant amateurism of the site puts me off - I think you should work on it a fair bit more before you launch it - there's no rush after all, good things come to those who shove their nose in a few books :)

Thanks for all that I will cetainly take on board your comments...and I dont take offence to constructive comments........not sure were the 'blatant amateurism' would come into that catagory though.

To be honest I am not setting up some buisness or trying to impress people with fancy sites with loads of java script etc. The first programme I used for site design was basically all just HTML code but when I came across a one that was easier I thought well I dont want to be any kind of web designer. I have had my T-Shirts for sale on other sites for ages now and when people on here asked me what other stuff I had done, do I have this and that I thought I would put together a small simple site to show people.

You mentioned the pages having titles...you know I was sure I had done that ?

I am looking at Dreamweaver (have it on disk somwhere) but can I ask in what way is this superior than a simple WYSIWYG editor, surpose it will take 6 months to use...... :)
Thanks for taking the time to look at it. I have myself noticed LOADS of errors since I stuck it up that I will sort and I will be taking on board your suggestions.....
SO do you have a site of your own or do you design them or something ?

[The Artist]

Nope, you're asking for criticism so that's what I'm giving :) I like to think if I put up a bad drawing you'd return the favour - nothing worse than people just sayign "yep, it's lovely" out of politeness! ;)

Yes I totally agree....I am my worst critic....

[seb]

trying to impress people with fancy sites with loads of java script etc.
Actually, I always try to use as little javascript as possible in my sites - I hate it, especially when people use it for "cool" effects!



I am looking at Dreamweaver (have it on disk somwhere) but can I ask in what way is this superior than a simple WYSIWYG editor, surpose it will take 6 months to use...... :)
Different editors will output different source-code, The code of your site is attrocious, and that's not your fault, it's the editors fault. DW is far from perfect, but it's better than the rest in my experience. Better code = faster site = more accessible site = less browser problems = wider audience = less slagging from gimps like me :)



SO do you have a site of your own or do you design them or something?
It is, for my sins, my job. Can't really show you any though, it's mostly intranet systems or sites where you need a username/password to access any of it - hopefully my next project will be something I can actually show :)

[seb]

You mentioned the pages having titles...you know I was sure I had done that?
I mean the titles that appear in the title bar at the top of the browser window - on your home page it's " index " for example. This is also what will be shown in buttons on a taskbar if your site is open - like this one says "SXOC Bulletin Bord - Reply to Topic". " index " just isn't very descriptive - index to what? It doesn't even tell me what site it is.

This is also the title that will be applied if someone bookmarks your site.

I recommend "The Crew Designs" on your homepage and then "The Crew Designs: contact us" etc on the other pages. These go inbetween the <title> and </title> tags in the source code and aren't displayed as part of the site itself.

:)

[The Artist]

I mean the titles that appear in the title bar at the top of the browser window - on your home page it's " index " for example. This is also what will be shown in buttons on a taskbar if your site is open - like this one says "SXOC Bulletin Bord - Reply to Topic". " index " just isn't very descriptive - index to what? It doesn't even tell me what site it is.

This is also the title that will be applied if someone bookmarks your site.

I recommend "The Crew Designs" on your homepage and then "The Crew Designs: contact us" etc on the other pages. These go inbetween the <title> and </title> tags in the source code and aren't displayed as part of the site itself.

:)

yeah I thought that is what you meant but I thought I had named them.......I just looked and I have named most of the pages but for some reason the first crew one is 'Index' .....some need revising anyway like the 'car' page is actually 'custom' :rolleyes:

So are there any good points about the site at all...or is it all pants (in your opinion) ?

Well I better get some more work done on it then so the "blatant amateurism " does not put anyone off :rolleyes:

Mrs Artist just saw that comment ( blatant amateurism).....and I wont repeat what she said... :eek:

[sroberts]

w3c and notepad, gives you everything you need to build a website :D

Si :)

[seb]

So are there any good points about the site at all...or is it all pants (in your opinion) ?

Well I better get some more work done on it then so the "blatant amateurism " does not put anyone off :rolleyes:

Sorry, I thought you were the first one to admit that websites isn't your thing, and you are in fact an amateur at it.... nothing bad was meant by it, I just want to see you produce something that looks a little more professional. There's a LOT of shit sites out there, don't let yours become another ;)

Good points? The t-shirts look nice.... :D

Sorry I'm a very strong critic, sit me in front of one of my own sites and I'll pick holes in it all day and refuse any compliments anyone gives me, nothing's ever good in my opinion - it's all shiiiiiiiiite I tell thee :)

[seb]

w3c and notepad, gives you everything you need to build a website :D

Well, that is true, but notepad does suck. Homesite+ for me.

[seb]

If you can get rid of the bravenet counter thing I would.

[seb]

Mind you, my idea of "design" is super-super simple (but clean) stuff like this :)


<div style="border:1px solid #000;background:#def;text-align:center;padding:3px;">
© John & Katie Young (The Crew - Design House) Waterhouses, Durham 2004
</div>

<div style="border:1px solid #000;background:#def;text-align:center;padding:3px;">&copy; John & Katie Young (The Crew - Design House) Waterhouses, Durham 2004
</div>

[The Artist]

Mind you, my idea of "design" is super-super simple (but clean) stuff like this :)


&lt;div style="border:1px solid #000;background:#def;text-align:center;padding:3px;">
&amp;copy; John & Katie Young (The Crew - Design House) Waterhouses, Durham 2004
&lt;/div>

<div style="border:1px solid #000;background:#def;text-align:center;padding:3px;">&copy; John & Katie Young (The Crew - Design House) Waterhouses, Durham 2004
</div>


Ahh you're just showing off now..... :) ....looks good though...crikey its a lot of code for something so simple......thats why I like the drag and drop ...crappy though they may be. I probally use the Serif programe because thats what I use for nearly everything else... :D

Thanks for comment about the T-Shirts.....loads more to come just a start.....head is full of ideas :wack:

[The Artist]

If you can get rid of the bravenet counter thing I would.


You think......Hmmm.....yeah think you are right....guest book to eh ?

I have changed a few things as we speak...still more to do though....I'll upload see what you think......

Keep the comments coming :nod:

[seb]

Well ideally the code would just be:


&lt;div id="footer">
&amp;copy; John & Katie Young (The Crew - Design House) Waterhouses, Durham 2004
&lt;/div>

Which you'll apreciate is naff all. Then in the stylesheet you'd have



#footer
{ border:1px solid #000;
background:#def;
text-align:center;
padding:3px;}

It's pretty simple - "px" = "pixels" so that means there's a 3 pixel gap between the text and the border.

#000 is shorthand for #000000 (#def = #ddeeff) and they're just colours - i'm sure you're used to hex values in photoshop. ddeeff = some red, more green and all the blue you can chuck at it, for a nice pale blue :) #000 is black.

[seb]

By contrast, this is the shit that you're wysiwyg editor has churned out :)


&lt;table width="408px" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
&lt;tr>
&lt;td valign="top" align="left">
&lt;p class="PPStyle0-P">
&lt;span class="PPStyle1-C">
&amp;copy; John &amp; Katie Young (The Crew - Design House) Waterhouses, Durham 2004
&lt;/span>
&lt;/p>
&lt;/td>
&lt;/tr>
&lt;/table>

!!!

[seb]

You think......Hmmm.....yeah think you are right....guest book to eh ?

I have changed a few things as we speak...still more to do though....I'll upload see what you think......

Keep the comments coming :nod:

Yep, guestbooks are also a fairly naff idea I think - sort of thing that seems to be mandatory on every bravenet/tripod/geoshites site out there :thumbs:

I'm starting to feel bad about all my criticism, but gotta be brutal to be kind :nod: :D

[The Artist]

Yep, guestbooks are also a fairly naff idea I think - sort of thing that seems to be mandatory on every bravenet/tripod/geoshites site out there :thumbs:

I'm starting to feel bad about all my criticism, but gotta be brutal to be kind :nod: :D


No not at all.....like I said earlier this is constructive....some good pointers. Ithink its starting to look cleaner already. Even though the code will still be crap..... :) ...but I can walk before run...

I'll upload it so far...pop along in about 30 min give me some more feedback.

[seb]

Actually I've just remembered a couple of URLs I've done that I can show you

http://www.raceshoot.com for when I was taking photos of mountain bike races - crap photos though mostly, I launched myself into this when I broke my arm and couldn't race myself, had never used a camera before! :) Taught myself PHP for some basic database interaction to store and display all the photos - never used PHP since :(

http://www.middleburn.co.uk - only freelance site I was ever paid for before I got my job. Took all the photos as well as doing all the design.

Both are pretty shit, but in my defence the raceshoot one is 3 years old now and the middleburn one is getting on for 2 years old. I've learnt so much at my job that I didn't know when I did these sites, find them both a bit embarrassing tbh!

I am however quite pleased with some of the product photos I did - I love this for example: http://www.middleburn.co.uk/images/photos/large/crank_bolts.jpg

Had to hand middleburn over to someone else because I didn't have the time to maintain it which is a shame - it's still the same though, surprised they've not changed it yet.

[The Artist]

Actually I've just remembered a couple of URLs I've done that I can show you

http://www.raceshoot.com for when I was taking photos of mountain bike races - crap photos though mostly, I launched myself into this when I broke my arm and couldn't race myself, had never used a camera before! :) Taught myself PHP for some basic database interaction to store and display all the photos - never used PHP since :(

http://www.middleburn.co.uk - only freelance site I was ever paid for before I got my job. Took all the photos as well as doing all the design.

Both are pretty shit, but in my defence the raceshoot one is 3 years old now and the middleburn one is getting on for 2 years old. I've learnt so much at my job that I didn't know when I did these sites, find them both a bit embarrassing tbh!

I am however quite pleased with some of the product photos I did - I love this for example: http://www.middleburn.co.uk/images/photos/large/crank_bolts.jpg

Had to hand middleburn over to someone else because I didn't have the time to maintain it which is a shame - it's still the same though, surprised they've not changed it yet.

Some good sites there.......as you said good photo's nice and sharp. So what camera did you use....?

Thats one problem I always have with the net is what image format to use for pics etc.....I know mine are slow to load but they are just jpeg fairly small......do they need to be smaller or a different format ? take my logo for example that was originally a sharp vecta drawing but I had to convert it to something else (jpeg) for the net....now its jaggered ??

I have uploaded my site again.....a few slight changes.....more to come.

[seb]

JPEGs should be used on complex images with lots of subtle colour changes. But if I was to take a screenshot of this page I'd be much better off saving it as a GIF since GIF handles large areas of block colour much better - the file would be smaller and the quality would be higher. GIF is lossless compression - whereas with jpeg you can trade off image quality for smaller sizes. If you look at the smileys on this site they'll be GIFs (mainly block colour) whereas photos are almost always JPEG. When using JPEG save it at various different levels and compare the sizes and quality and pick what suits best.

The mountain biking photos were with an Olympus E10 4MP digital SLR which cost me £1500 at the time - sold it some time later for £900, but made considerably more than that £600 loss selling photos so it's not all bad :)

The middleburn ones were post-E10 so I used my old Olympus C2000Z - this is only a 2MP camera, and is at least 5 years old now - still does the job well - has a cracking lens on it according to reviews. Only bad thing is it has no USB connection, have to use a serial port with it - oldschool!!

[seb]

Right, regarding that menu on the left - it's possible to make that text look just like the buttons you had before did.

Link to an example I just made: http://www.raceshoot.com/menu.htm

code

&lt;html>
&lt;head>
&lt;style>
#menu li{list-style-type:none;
margin-bottom: 10px;}


#menu a:link, #menu a:visited
{ display:block;
text-decoration: none;
width: 100px;
color: #000;
padding: 5px;
font: bold 12px sans-serif;
height: 40px;
text-align: center;
border: 1px solid black;}


#menu a:hover, #menu a:active
{ border-color: #666;
background: #eee;
color: #900;}
&lt;/style>
&lt;/head>

&lt;body>
&lt;ul id="menu">
&lt;li>&lt;a href="index.html">The Crew&lt;/a>&lt;/li>
&lt;li>&lt;a href="car1.html">Custom Made T-shirts&lt;/a>&lt;/li>
&lt;/ul>
&lt;/body>
&lt;/html>

CSS rocks :D Would you just look at how beautifully simple the html for the menu is. All of the style bit should go in an external CSS stylesheet, then you can reference that one page from all of your HTML pages, meaning that you can just change a few lines of code on one page and it'll change how your menu looks throughout the site :thumbs:

[The Artist]

JPEGs should be used on complex images with lots of subtle colour changes. But if I was to take a screenshot of this page I'd be much better off saving it as a GIF since GIF handles large areas of block colour much better - the file would be smaller and the quality would be higher. GIF is lossless compression - whereas with jpeg you can trade off image quality for smaller sizes. If you look at the smileys on this site they'll be GIFs (mainly block colour) whereas photos are almost always JPEG. When using JPEG save it at various different levels and compare the sizes and quality and pick what suits best.

The mountain biking photos were with an Olympus E10 4MP digital SLR which cost me £1500 at the time - sold it some time later for £900, but made considerably more than that £600 loss selling photos so it's not all bad :)

The middleburn ones were post-E10 so I used my old Olympus C2000Z - this is only a 2MP camera, and is at least 5 years old now - still does the job well - has a cracking lens on it according to reviews. Only bad thing is it has no USB connection, have to use a serial port with it - oldschool!!


I have an ancient Fujifilm Digi camera.....had it since DC were very rare and all I got was.....'Wow...whats that' wherever I went.. :)

Well I have just re-saved my logo as a jpeg before uploading......have a look see what you think ?

[seb]

Images:

Your "nessie" image is 507x355 pixels, but in the HTML you have set it to be 282x212 pixels.

2 reasons this is a bad thing:

1) wasted bandwidth - if the user is only going to see a 282x212 image, only send them that in the first place

2) poor quality - browsers are not advanced image editors - if you ask them to scale an image they'll do so, poorly, and the quality will suffer as a result.

Also you've not kept the aspect ratio the same - 282x197 is what you should have to maintain it.


Your original 507x355 file (52KB)
http://www.raceshoot.com/temp/nessie.jpg

Which you had displaying as
<img src="http://www.raceshoot.com/temp/nessie.jpg" width="282" height="212" />

My 282x197 JPEG file (11KB)
http://www.raceshoot.com/temp/nessie2.jpg

My 282x197 GIF file (10KB)
http://www.raceshoot.com/temp/nessie2.gif

You'll note that in this case the GIF file is smaller and higher quality - that's because the image is mainly large areas of solid colour which GIF handles better than JPEG.

[seb]

Similar again here:

Your original 507x355 file (49KB)
http://www.raceshoot.com/temp/easter.jpg

Which you had displaying as 314x207
<img src="http://www.raceshoot.com/temp/easter.jpg" width="314" height="207" />

My 314x170 JPEG file (11KB)
http://www.raceshoot.com/temp/easter2.jpg

My 314x170 GIF file (10KB)
http://www.raceshoot.com/temp/easter2.gif

[Mint_Sauce]

Also, to save .jpg's use a decent program like photoshop. Paint is crap at making JPG's and their big compared to photoshop's ones.

[The Artist]

Also, to save .jpg's use a decent program like photoshop. Paint is crap at making JPG's and their big compared to photoshop's ones.

Now I have to put my foot down there...I know Photoshop is the industry standard etc....but I have always prefered PaintShop may not be quite as powerful (not far off) but a nicer, friendlier programe in my opinion.....


SEB.....I did realise about the image sizes,it was one of those "I will have to sort that out" jobs that just got forgot about with doing T-Shirts etc.....but I would not have thought to use GIF...

[ATrull]

the gimp! :)

[seb]

Artist - glad to hear it, I'm a big paint shop pro fan too - photoshop is just too big and overcomplicated - loading takes an age even on a powerful PC. PSP7 was where it's at - PSP8 is a bit too photoshoppy for my liking.

[The Artist]

Artist - glad to hear it, I'm a big paint shop pro fan too - photoshop is just too big and overcomplicated - loading takes an age even on a powerful PC. PSP7 was where it's at - PSP8 is a bit too photoshoppy for my liking.


Yep....agree 100%..when I heard PSP8 was coming out I thought it would be great so I tried the beta version granted it was not totally finished but I also thought they were trying to be PhotoSHop..... :annoyed: ....

Did you know that it was only recently that Photoshop got an image browser something Paintshop has had from the begining..... :thumbs:

SEB - so you think with the small changes so far the site is improving then ?

[seb]

SEB - so you think with the small changes so far the site is improving then ?

:thumbs:

[The Artist]

:thumbs:

champion.....

I did like your menu buttons by the way....thanks for going to the trouble. I may use something like that next time I update the site....not sure yet. I also have LOADS of work to add...especially Katies cards (she has loads) and I have loads of traditional work to put on.

[seb]

champion.....

I did like your menu buttons by the way....thanks for going to the trouble. I may use something like that next time I update the site....not sure yet. I also have LOADS of work to add...especially Katies cards (she has loads) and I have loads of traditional work to put on.

The beautiful thing about the buttons is

1) they're increadibly light on bandwidth
2) they're semantically correct
3) they'll be interpreted perfectly in a speech browser etc
4) dead easy to add one or change the wording etc
5) dead easy to change the style

[Missy]

CSS rocks :D Would you just look at how beautifully simple the html for the menu is. All of the style bit should go in an external CSS stylesheet, then you can reference that one page from all of your HTML pages, meaning that you can just change a few lines of code on one page and it'll change how your menu looks throughout the site :thumbs:


i agree css is cool, though i have to say, it's taking me a while to learn it

my 17 year old brother is into css and is working with me to build my site at the moment..... currently i'm showing him what i want and he's putting it together...

we're just starting on pop up's so that when you click on an item it will open a pop up with a description and photo of the item for sale...

here are a few other css sites i fond helpful

http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/

http://glish.com/css/

http://www.csscreator.com/css-forum/index.php - i've joined this forum and they are very helpful!!

http://www.zeldman.com/

http://www.alistapart.com/

oh and this is my brother's site http://moglenstar.net/

[seb]

The CSS creator forum is good - you may have seen my name there if you've been a member for long....

Can't recommend zeldman's book enough either :)

[seb]

PS I think your borther should change his design at least a bit from where he saw it ;)

http://www.bluerobot.com/web/layouts/

[Missy]

i only joined about a month ago and posted a couple of bits, i think my name on there is missys-graphics (i use that on alot of sites)