your opinions of IT industry...

[dave mca]

...at the moment and in the coming years.

I`m looking to get my A+ certification in order to become a computer technician or failing that help desk or something. I am not looking to make a killing , just to earn a living.
I am aware the industry is a lot leaner that pre 2000 at the moment but do you think those jobs that i seek are there still and will be in the near future.
You hear a lot of pesimism on the internet , but is this regarding the more competitive end of the salary scale ie those who are struggling against the competition there is now to aquire the lofty level they initially hoped for ?

Your opinions please.
IT or not IT ?


cheers
dave

[Will Taylor]

Recommend you move into development, programming and the like. Support makes fcuk all these days - more money than non technical jobs, but the real money is in development. If you do want to get into support, try and go for something other than windows 2000 based stuff. Have a look on jobserve and other recruitment sites, for an idea of what skills earn what money and where.


Good luck :)

Will

[Cookie]

Agree 100% with will theres no money in support anymore.

Technologys to get in to that are still strong are SAP and UNIX or any of the new web programming languages ,TCL for one.

C.

[dave mca]

Well the actual job i was hoping for was a field service engineer
description (http://www.jobserve.com/it/jobserve/JobDetail.asp?jobid=8BA586B731BBA989)
How easy or difficult am i gonna find it to get this kind of work with a feshly passed A+ certificate and the claim that i have run a small pc repair/troubleshooting business from home for a number of years (which i havent).

Wont support pick up again ever ?

[JB]

I totally agree that development is the way to go.

[Dave_S]

Originally posted by Cookie
Agree 100% with will theres no money in support anymore.

You lot are working for the wrong firm ;)

Im in Tech support and ... well ... earning enough ;)

Dave

[dave mca]

I dont fancy development. Having to learn the languages and write it intensely all day every day i think would have me looking for the exit in no time.
I think i`d much prefer traveling around trouble shooting OS and hardware.
Development would steal me of time to think of.................well........................... ......................






















my car :indiff:

[Vez]

Just started a contract, and found myself working for the security team in support, woot, ideal job :)

[SteveDunn]

Problem with support is that the main operating system of choice now (in most companies) is WinXP. The damned thing doesnt break much in my experience.

Back when 98 was mainstay there'd be calls every 5 minutes for "AHHHH FATAL EXCEPTION WHAT DO I DO?!?!!" and "IT'S BLUE SCREENED PLEASE COME AND FIX IT!!!" Xp just shuts down and restarts whatever service fails and carrys on, which kinda sucks for support people :)

Hardware is generally heading toward "If it breaks then replace it" so there isn't much scope for support either.

I work for Cardiff Council's SITS team (for another month :rolleyes: ) Out of the team of 10, 5 are on less than 12k a year with no forseeable increase in wage, 3 are looking at becoming Carpenters/Plumbers, and the rest are trying to work out how to get some more money (one buys, fixes and sells cars) and im considering going back to college to learn something more interesting.

Anyway, big ramble, if you can get yer head around it, try someting like Oracle or Unix, most of the cash is there now i think.

[dave mca]

Originally posted by Jenkski
Problem with support is that the main operating system of choice now (in most companies) is WinXP. The damned thing doesnt break much in my experience.

Back when 98 was mainstay there'd be calls every 5 minutes for "AHHHH FATAL EXCEPTION WHAT DO I DO?!?!!" and "IT'S BLUE SCREENED PLEASE COME AND FIX IT!!!" Xp just shuts down and restarts whatever service fails and carrys on, which kinda sucks for support people :)

Hardware is generally heading toward "If it breaks then replace it" so there isn't much scope for support either.

I work for Cardiff Council's SITS team (for another month :rolleyes: ) Out of the team of 10, 5 are on less than 12k a year with no forseeable increase in wage, 3 are looking at becoming Carpenters/Plumbers, and the rest are trying to work out how to get some more money (one buys, fixes and sells cars) and im considering going back to college to learn something more interesting.

Anyway, big ramble, if you can get yer head around it, try someting like Oracle or Unix, most of the cash is there now i think.


Is that 12k p.a for about 37 hrs per week ?
SITS ? whats that ?
Is it help desk and if so helping with what software etc?

[grumpy]

Support not as good now.

as said development is, especially if you work with the new languages.

Unix Admin is always good, especially if you can script.

Databases (proper ones not MS SQl or MySQL) good too.

Networking and wireless protocols are always necessary.

I work in support and was made redundant last year, I then had to take a job on 20% less :cry: now less money for car

[SteveDunn]

SITS = Schools IT Support

It involves me driving around all the Schools in Cardiff fixing their problems. 12k per annum for 37.5 hours a week. I don't do myself any favours getting a car that's averaging 20mpg, but itd still be hard to balance books driving a 1litre diesel :)

I suppose it's fine if you can still live at home with parents or whatever, but having own pad means its pretty much un-doable :(

[jonshaw_uk]

i work for of college in newport,the wages aren't too bad but we look after photo copiers printers 600 pcs on site as well as a load of specialist software written for the college in SQL. I work monday to thursday 8.30 to 4.30 and 8.30 till 4.00 on friday and im on £13750 per year. But the benefit i get is that we have a motor vehicle department with loads of skilled lectures that fix my car, and i get to do some teaching in the evenings at £17.76 per hour - which helps mod my car

[andyf]

I'm amazed the company I work for can still be in business. Badly run P.O.S, and not much respect for employees.

[Nicely]

If you're going to do support, you're going to get more if you contract. There's more money in 2nd/3rd line support, but you need several years experience.

Another thing, although most employers insist on MCSEs and such like (:annoyed: ), they also want experience as well... If they concentrated a little more on the experience and a lot less on the Mickey Mouse Microbotch qualifications, the IT industry would be a lot stronger.

[Martin T]

Originally posted by andyf
I'm amazed the company I work for can still be in business. Badly run P.O.S, and not much respect for employees.

Ditto for my employer.

[James]

I'm in the same boat as Dave, working in support and doing not badly (acting european IT manager at the moment) and I would say there's a definite swing towards deployment and remote support and installation. If there's any software problems that are going to take more than half an hour to fix, we just reghost them. Almost all our support is done remotely using Dameware (www.dameware.com) (an absolute godsend if you're in Windows based IT support, download the demo)
Gone are the days when it's acceptable to have someone spend 3 days trying to fix a quirky problem so IT support has definitely changed. The 1st line helpdesk contractor we have at the moment is earning 1/2 of what would have been acceptable a few years ago. I've gone permanent cos the contract market's gone all weird...

[SFC]

Yep, lean times

I started out training as a programmer but ended up in a general support and admin role before I'd finished the course. That turned into managing a small dept. and then, after 3 years, I moved on to a bigger company where I spent the next 5 years doing merger and acquisiton integration, ERP rollout, etc. Then I got laid off and looked after the kids for a while and went back to work as a project manager at a 35% cut in package.

The silly money jobs are in recruitment (although that's leaner than usual now, which is nice to see cos they're w*nkers), analysis and consultancy (esp. ERP; SAP and JDE folks are still earning £££s). There's OK money to be made in support and deployment, especially if you can carve out your own niche in terms of skills or on a self-employed basis.

[andyf]

Originally posted by Vez
Just started a contract, and found myself working for the security team in support, woot, ideal job :)

I wonder if I applied for the permanent vacancy they have there it would shunt you out? :)

[seb]

I started a job in ASP/MSSQL development 7 months ago. I knew pretty much nothign about it, sent the company a cheeky email and got lucky! I started off as a trainee on £10k with a promise of £15k after 3 months. Well that didn't come, but I don't think I deserved it anyway, the learning curve was too steep for me to be worth £15k after 3 months IMO. After 6 months I got the rise. That was the best feeling ever. A real "wow, you mean this is like a CAREER" moment. "And you want to pay me more money? 50% rise? Super :)". Been promised another 50% rise after another 6 months, working all hours to try and impress and improve by then.

£10k wasn't enough to live on (especially as I chose the same moment to spend what little cash I had on an S14 :)). £15k isn't either really. Debts are mounting, but I think in 5 months time my incomings will outshine my outgoings, and in 18months or so I should be sitting pretty :thumbs:

The top guys here are earning about £35k, and it's only a small company. Fairly relaxed working atmosphere and a good bunch of people.

I've tinkered with computers and a little programming all my life - but like I say never used ASP or SQL before. I have a degree, but it's in Physics :) I consider myself very lucky, I've certainly landed on my feet.

Who knows, I might be able to buy another 200sx in a year or so :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

Will probably have to get one of those horrid ones with the popup headlights though :D :D

[seb]

ignore this post :)

[Ally McC]

I can echo other comments about the IT world being lean since the Twin Towers on Sept 11th.

I'm not a techy, but I train techy's to speak recognisable english to the rest of us mere mortals ;) (Phone skills, Communications skills, Leadership for managers & Team Leaders etc...)

3 years ago, I was able to work almost exclusively in IT sector. That's all changed now as there is less £ available in IT generally and the need has fallen as headcount has shrunk a huge amount. This is especially true in 1st / 2nd line support, with many large companies shipping phone/remote support overseas.

Did you know the lagest concentration of IT call centres in now in the Check (sp??) Republic :eek: (similar to financial services moving operations to India)

I can't comment on what technical avenues will be most suitable for you, I can only confirm that 1st and 2nd level tech support is declining in the UK.

Good luck with your search and remember that it's no good earning all the £ in the world if you're too knackered and burned out to enjoy it ;)

Been there, done that and gone freelance :thumbs:

[tim rome]

i looked into going into IT last year but when i found out what i could expect to earn after i had shelled out loads of dosh to actually do a course, i would have been mad, so i keep on trucking
there is a 40k shortage of hgv drivers and the situation is steadily getting worse, so you can now pick and choose (well you can in this area)

[GT]

Originally posted by tim rome
i looked into going into IT last year but when i found out what i could expect to earn after i had shelled out loads of dosh to actually do a course, i would have been mad, so i keep on trucking
there is a 40k shortage of hgv drivers and the situation is steadily getting worse, so you can now pick and choose (well you can in this area)

I totally agree Tim, IT is a lot of work for not so much as a couple of years ago gain, there isn't the money in it anymore, well not support anyway. Loads of jobs advertised seeking MCSE or similar and paying 15k, no thanks. I don't earn enough for what I do, but I get by, hoping something better will come along (don't hold my breath), I often think about getting out, but it seems a waste of what I know to go and get a driving job or similar, even though the money is better. I haven't completely ruled out spending a few quid doing my HGV though! Having said that, if you can get into a non-IT company (pharmaceutical or similar (a company that doesn't make its living from IT)) then there is money to earn.

[MeLLoN Stu]

IT indusrty has yet to grow out of the old 80's crashes and booms / swings and roundabout way of working. last few years most areas have had to tighten their purse strings for numerous reasons. dont forget, most big businesses wont consider upgrading a technology like an operating system until its been tried and tested for 3 years, and with the amount of technology coming out theres gotta be some pick up of the line sooner or later. networking isnt paying anywhere near as well as it was, my bro used to earn in excess of £300k and now earns around the 150k per annum mark and he has just about all of the worth having qualifications, CISCO right the way up to CCIE level, PRINCE 1 and 2 which are fookin expensive (iirc prince 2 costs in the region of 100kfor the course) and has worked at the forefront of networking for a lot of years in some very high powered positions.
also the industry has been flooded with low level jobs to the point where people only want the ones that have good qualfications even for the simplest of jobs. i got loads of qualifications and was offered two excellent paying jobs for my age, however sick to the back teeth of IT industry and wanted a job that gave me real satisfaction and enjoyment, so i have shifted trades at the grand old age of 21 and so far so good. even the studying at college is fun and i'm getting payed for it. bargain. :)
also, the worlds economy has been a bit crap last year or so, with a few exceptions of course.

still, its a very handy industry to be in, once you get a foot in the door and start proving to companies that you are worth your while and climb the ladder the rewards are still there, just takes a bit more looking for.

[tim rome]

are you sure that you have got the K's in the right place cos one hundred thousand pounds for a course sounds a lot and three hundred thousand pouds a year is quite a desirable salary

[MeLLoN Stu]

yep all numbers are in the right place. lol.

the prince 2 course is fecking expensive and not a lot of people have it world wide.
300k is a very desirable salary indeed. he and my sister (bro in law) are looking to buy a pub / hotel worth 1.2 million after christmas, got 4 kids at private schools costing 40k a year in total so he needs it LoL.
he has done really well for himself and is hoping to become a director for a big industry player soon. lucky bastid. i have worked for him in the past and its rather nice earning the wages he gave me, nevermind what he is on. lol

personally, i am preferring being on good money, tax free, enjoying what i do, no rush hour traffic every day, work 4 months then get 4 months off which i still get payed for, and i got pretty much 100% job security provided i keep on the straight and narrow and continue on the path i am.

[James]

Originally posted by MeLLoN Stu
personally, i am preferring being on good money, tax free, enjoying what i do, no rush hour traffic every day, work 4 months then get 4 months off which i still get payed for, and i got pretty much 100% job security provided i keep on the straight and narrow and continue on the path i am.
and what exactly do you do? sounds like fun :)

[MeLLoN Stu]

Originally posted by NewClearBomb
and what exactly do you do? sounds like fun :)

marine engineer(merchant navy). enjoyin it so far, and somethin that always interested me, so yeah i find it fun. only disadvantage is being away for so long at a time but pay deal makes up for that and still get to talk to the missus on the net etc when i go away.