View Full Version : Hunting?
...and I've just noticed I can't speel "Restrict" :o
mattpayne
07-07-2003, 21:02
I think hunting needs to be defined here... I live in the country side and like to shoot, whilst i mainly blast clays, there are days where I go out on the feildsto control the numbers of bunnies and pigeons, this is technically hunting... :D and is necessary for the good of the local farming community... I also fish (and eat the seafish that i seldom catch!)
hell... ive been known to hunt poontang too... :D and that shouldnt be banned!!! EVER!!!! :D:D
Foxes. Pah, vermin. Kill the lot of them. Pull them apart limb from limb and make the little bastards suffer I say.
Tricky-Ricky
07-07-2003, 21:34
Becoming a little Mycroftesq arn't we JB!:rolleyes:
Martin T
07-07-2003, 21:39
I'd like it to be banned purely because of the total snottiness, stupidity and total lack of repect for other peoples safety that the fox hunters have. Just shoot the bloody vermin. and the foxes aswell. Stinky nasty things.
Originally posted by JB
Foxes. Pah, vermin. Kill the lot of them. Pull them apart limb from limb and make the little bastards suffer I say.
Have to 101% agree witht he above statement, foxes:
- spread desiese,
- kill for fun,
- if left unchecked they will over whelm the contryside AND the towns, then all you lot who say "oo the fluffy foxes" will change your tune and hunt the buggers :)
They are blindingly horrible animals - ive lived in the contryside all my life (except now as i have been forced to move....work :() and have nothing but trouble from them, we had chickens, untill a fox killed the lot in one night.....even our sheep are terrorised by them. They will rip an unborn lamb out of a sheep for the sheer fun of it.
Hunting them with dogs (although i tend to disagree with the people who do it - mobile phone weilding posh people out for a fun day) is the best way to control them, when a hound catches the fox, its dead in seconds - try shooting one, chances are your injur it and it will crawl off and die painfully.
Keep hunting.
(you may have noticed this is a touchy point for me.......) :)
Jezz_S13
07-07-2003, 21:59
Ban it, killing stuff for fun is erm, wrong.
Originally posted by Jezz_S13
Ban it, killing stuff for fun is erm, wrong.
The point is its not supposed to be done for fun, which is why licencing, if it was inforcable - which it wont be - would workbetter, would stop of the rich folk up the manor going out for a ride.........
Its supposed to be done to keep their numbers down - like back in the old days when it was FARMERS who went out, not mummy and daughter on the gg's
:mad: mad mad mad
StreetPizza
07-07-2003, 22:18
I voted ban it, but I may change my mind the first time one of the 'suicide bunnies' I regularly encounter decides to damage my bumper rather than going under my wheel... :(
I vote to keep it, but then again I am from Washington State where there isnt a major problem with it. The way I was raised, if you shoot something, you eat it, period. Hunting IMHO is not only for fun. I realise you can go to the store and buy a roast for dinner but I know I felt better when I ate something that I worked to bring home.
I don't think there is an argument over whether fox numbers need to be kept in check. It's the method of killing them which many people find rather distasteful.
I would go for a ban on current hunting methods, if something more humane could be found. That really shouldn't be beyond us in this day and age should it?
Hunting is wrong
Pest control isn't.
There is a difference in my view.
Oh Smiffad, foxes don't kill for fun, it is a quest for food, even though they may not have it all there and then. people in red coats, black hats and horns do kill for fun.
As an ex-hunter, i think it should be banned (only hunted defenceless things like rabbits with an airgun tho. not somethin i am proud of)
edited cos i am a arse !:wack:
erm...
wrong thread perhaps?
Originally posted by Starionman
Oh Smiffad, foxes don't kill for fun, it is a quest for food, even though they may not have it all there and then. people in red coats, black hats and horns do kill for fun.
If foxes dont kill for fun, why then do they kill every chicken in sight, and only take one, if they killed only for food, they would kill one and take one.
THEY KILL FOR FUN - THEY FIND IT EXCITING - SO THEY KEEP DOING IT.
I am willing to admit current hunting methods are not good, and if a way could be found to keep the foxes undercontrolll, id be all for it, ive never been on a hunt, i dont know anyone who does - i have no vested intrest in keeping it - i just understand that foxes have to be controlled and this IS the best way to do it at the moment.
Originally posted by smiffad
If foxes dont kill for fun, why then do they kill every chicken in sight, and only take one, if they killed only for food, they would kill one and take one.
I was going to stay away from this one, but here I am. :rolleyes:
Smiffad is right, and the damage they do is hurrendous. I've seen it many times. It is horrible going to check on lambs and finding them ripped apart. or hear the chickens and go out to see them being killed. Foxes do kill for fun.
Also, I want people to know that it is not just the rich that hunt. I use to when I had my horse yet I am a kind person and I do love animals. I've never tried to change someones opinion of hunting and never would.
The problem is, whatever your opinion on hunting, what will be next. They have already started on fishing and next I'm guessing will be shooting.
This is suppose to be a free country where you can do what you enjoy, but it seems that if a minority kick up fuss about something, someone starts to call for bans.
Deffo ban hunting w/ hounds. It doesn't control the fox population very well & it's only ( well 90% ) done by jumped up toffs who're too far up their own arse.
Originally posted by smiffad
If foxes dont kill for fun, why then do they kill every chicken in sight, and only take one, if they killed only for food, they would kill one and take one.
Of course foxes don't "kill for fun". You shouldn't attribute human emotions to animals - they do what they do out of a basic survival instinct. When a fox gets in an area w/ loads of food ( ie chicken run ) it's hunt instinct keeps getting triggered by the chickens flapping around. It ain't the chickens fault, it ain't the foxes fault - it's just nature doing it's thing.
It really pisses me off when people ( farmers mostly ) blame wildlife on spreading disease. I mean, how do they know which animal passes it to which.
Originally posted by Hayley
I was going to stay away from this one, but here I am. :rolleyes:
Smiffad is right, and the damage they do is hurrendous. I've seen it many times. It is horrible going to check on lambs and finding them ripped apart. or hear the chickens and go out to see them being killed. Foxes do kill for fun.
Also, I want people to know that it is not just the rich that hunt. I use to when I had my horse yet I am a kind person and I do love animals. I've never tried to change someones opinion of hunting and never would.
The problem is, whatever your opinion on hunting, what will be next. They have already started on fishing and next I'm guessing will be shooting.
This is suppose to be a free country where you can do what you enjoy, but it seems that if a minority kick up fuss about something, someone starts to call for bans.
:thumbs::notworthy
Originally posted by Lewis
Of course foxes don't "kill for fun".
Sorry but you are wrong. It is not uncommon to find animals ripped apart yet NONE missing. If they were hungry they would eat not just kill.
Like I said, I'm not endorsing hunting, but it is unfair to judge without accepting the truth.
Originally posted by Lewis
It really pisses me off when people ( farmers mostly ) blame wildlife on spreading disease. I mean, how do they know which animal passes it to which.
Find me a healthy fox and i will take that comment back then......
badgers also spread TB to cattle while we are on the subject....they are kulled too, where are all the people protecting them?
Im not going to post on here again, as its something i have a strong oppinion on and have spend lots of time looking at.
have fun :wave:
Originally posted by smiffad
Find me a healthy fox and i will take that comment back then......
Oh well, that's proof that livestock pass it to wildlife isn't it.
badgers also spread TB to cattle while we are on the subject....they are kulled too, where are all the people protecting them?
Oh, you mean all the animal protection charities which are campaigning against it, MP's trying to get them protected, that kind of thing ?. There is no proof that badgers pass TB to cattle. I mean WTF - Badgers have TB, Cattle have TB, therefore Badgers must've infected them.
Originally posted by Hayley
Like I said, I'm not endorsing hunting, but it is unfair to judge without accepting the truth.
Originally posted by Lewis
There is no proof that badgers pass TB to cattle. I mean WTF - Badgers have TB, Cattle have TB, therefore Badgers must've infected them.
That is why culling is being trialed in different areas. We do need to know.
Anyway, I think maybe we should all agree to respect everyone elses opinions. This could turn into a nasty thread and we are all grown up.
Let's leave it at we all think different things and get back to taking the piss out of the stupid. :D
Originally posted by Hayley
Anyway, I think maybe we should all agree to respect everyone elses opinions. This could turn into a nasty thread and we are all grown up.
Let's leave it at we all think different things and get back to taking the piss out of the stupid. :D
Well said :thumbs:
Originally posted by smiffad
- spread desiese,
- kill for fun,
- if left unchecked they will over whelm the contryside AND the towns, then all you lot who say "oo the fluffy foxes" will change your tune and hunt the buggers :)
This isn't a personel attack but just a couple of points, foxes aren't the only animals to spread decease, just about any animal can carry disease (Badgers carry TB, allegedlly, Ticks carry Limes, common household cats and dogs carry their fair share too). They do not kill for fun, they are opportunitists who kill what they can and then bury what they don't eat for later. The chicken coup scenario happens when the fox has killed all the chicken and gets disturbed when it goes about carrying them off. Foxes do proliferate in towns because they live on the rubbish we leave about, as i said before they are opportunists which will go for the easy meal.
I have lived in the country side all my life, still do, so i have an appritiation of problems caused by so called "pests". I would say the biggest "pest" of all is man.
The main problem i have with this hunting issue is the way it has been handled by the politicians. How many times have they voted on it? And it sitll hasn't been resolved.
McRearout
19-11-2004, 10:55
Sorry to have dug this one back up again.
But, Hooray!
:clap: :clap: :clap:
About time it was banned.
Albsolute farse.
Hunting will continue dispite the ban and good luck to them :thumbs:
If it doesnt you've just added many thousands to the unemployed list and killed thousands and thousands of dogs, round of applause to the dog killers.
Foxes will now be shot in the arse and will take days to die in much pain.
So what have all you anti hunt people gained? Opps, nothing, youve made the foxes plight worse, and sentenced thousands of other animals to an untimely death, have fun sleeping at night.
PLUS, youve managed to wasted 700 hours of government time on this. ;)
McRearout
19-11-2004, 11:04
I thought it might start up a bit of debate.
Proves that mindless thugs can't get their own way no matter how many people they hurt.
the biggest problem i have with this whole debate is that the "hunters" claim that if the hunting is stopped all the dogs will be put down instantly
er... why?
McRearout
19-11-2004, 11:06
the biggest problem i have with this whole debate is that the "hunters" claim that if the hunting is stopped all the dogs will be put down instantly
er... why?
Because they are blood thirsty monsters and need to kill something......
the biggest problem i have with this whole debate is that the "hunters" claim that if the hunting is stopped all the dogs will be put down instantly
er... why?
Try having one as a pet, should instantly answer your question. (should armour plate you cat first though :wack: )
they were bred for hunting and know nothing else, they cant be domesticated and its illegal to use them for hunting, so no other choice, people arnt gonna keep then for fun.
manic_mechanic
19-11-2004, 11:06
Class Hatred
Bayside Blue
19-11-2004, 11:08
I say give the chickens, the foxes, the cattle and the badgers guns and let them sort it out between themselves :thumbs:
though they may have trouble using them without the use of an oposable thumb but it would be a fun to watch deathmatch :nod:
Id be cheering for the badger personally:
Badger... Badger... Badger... Badger... Badger... Badger... Mushroom... Mushroom... Badger... Badger... Badger... Badger... Badger... Badger... Mushroom... Mushroom.. Badger... Badger... Badger... Badger... Badger... Badger... Snake... Snake... My god its a Snake...
Badger... Badger... Badger... Badger... Badger... Badger...
Also out of 659 Members of parliment, none of them are badgers, foxes, chickens or cows... except Mr. Blair who is a cross mix of all of them.
Martin :thumbs:
do the owners not have a responsibility toward the animal still
they have bread a vicious killing machine that now can no longer perform its function should they not still hold responsibility for these animals lives?
they have methods to care for the animals currently, why can these not continue?
manic_mechanic
19-11-2004, 11:22
The same reason you can keep a cat for pleasure, but not a herd of dairy cattle
do the owners not have a responsibility toward the animal still
they have bread a vicious killing machine that now can no longer perform its function should they not still hold responsibility for these animals lives?
they have methods to care for the animals currently, why can these not continue?
Same reason you wouldnt keep a car with no engine i should imagine.
People are not going to be paid to look after dog that dont have a purpose. So the kennels will be shut down, there is no other way, no ones going to keep hundreds of kennels going just for the fun of it.
If you tried keeping one as a pet, it would eat your sofa, your cat and gerbill would dissapear within 5 mins of bring it home.... youd have dog crap up the walls and a howling unhappy dog. It is true, they have been bread simply to chase foxes, and be part of a pack, you cant split them up either..... any offers to house a pack of 30 large dogs with a natuaral wish to eat small fluffy things? :D
Foxes. Pah, vermin. Kill the lot of them. Pull them apart limb from limb and make the little bastards suffer I say.
Maybe they are vermin (I personally don't think so), but if they are and do cause problems they should be killed humanely. Instead of having a bunch of toffee nosed tw:censored:s dressed like complete c:censored:ts chasing them with a huge a pack of dogs until they are tired then letting them be ripped to shreds. Everbody is entitled to an opinion though.
I just think it is cruel and these idiots getting dressed up to do it make my skin crawl. Ban it, it is only a handfull of these individuals doing it, you won't lose many votes Tony you sh1thouse :rolleyes:
These people like to think they are preserving Britiains heritage or something and it is not barbaric. Yet they behave like a bunch of thugs in their demonstrations :mad:
McRearout
19-11-2004, 11:34
Well said. :clap:
Yet they behave like a bunch of thugs in their demonstrations :mad:
You should see what anti hunt protestors get up to then.... lets just say they obviously dont like horses as much as they do fox's :indiff:
i agree i dont like the way hunting has gone, its is an effective way of dealing with fox numbers, but its has become a nice ride out for mummy and daughter, however mummy and daughter have probably never seen a fox whilst out hunting, the ones that actually do the hunting are the common folks and farmers, the other just tag along.
Maybe they are vermin (I personally don't think so), but if they are and do cause problems they should be killed humanely. Instead of having a bunch of toffee nosed tw:censored:s dressed like complete c:censored:ts chasing them with a huge a pack of dogs until they are tired then letting them be ripped to shreds. Everbody is entitled to an opinion though.
I just think it is cruel and these idiots getting dressed up to do it make my skin crawl. Ban it, it is only a handfull of these individuals doing it, you won't lose many votes Tony you sh1thouse :rolleyes:
These people like to think they are preserving Britiains heritage or something and it is not barbaric. Yet they behave like a bunch of thugs in their demonstrations :mad:
Casting my mind back 16 months to when I posted that, I should imagine a wrote it in a fairly ironical way :rolleyes:
Bayside Blue
19-11-2004, 12:16
So my suggestions a no go'er then :wack:
McRearout
19-11-2004, 12:17
So my suggestions a no go'er then :wack:
The Harry Hill answer to any argument :D
Jezz_S13
19-11-2004, 12:17
Casting my mind back 16 months to when I posted that, I should imagine a wrote it in a fairly ironical way :rolleyes:
Either that or a belly full of red wine bravado. :D :D
On the positive side, the civil disobedience and demonstrations, not to mention pics of hounds being put down ( :( ) in the run up to the next general election, might give Tony Bliar a few sleepless nights.
Jezz_S13
19-11-2004, 12:19
Dog pie anyone? Mmm yummy.
And Blair out? Tragic.
McRearout
19-11-2004, 12:22
They will rip an unborn lamb out of a sheep for the sheer fun of it.
And I thought I had a wierd sense of humor.
I don't think a fox does anything for fun. Survival maybe.
How many millions of animals are slaughtered by humans every month. Its what we do to survive.
I wouldn't survive long on veggie burgers :D
McRearout
19-11-2004, 12:24
Dog pie anyone? Mmm yummy.
And Blair out? Tragic.
absoluely wetting myself at that :D :notworthy
Why do people want to ban Hunting?
1)Foxes are a nuisance. Tehy kill cjickens, ducks, cats and any small animal they come across. If they came across an unattended baby, they'd probably rip out it's throat
2) Foxes don't just kill to eat. The kill everything they come across
3) Foxes will now have to be either shot or poisoned. I think you'll agree that poisining or a bad shot will be more cruel than hunting, which is relatively quick and effective.
4) If you ban hunting, you HAVE to ban fishing. It's just as 'barbaric'. Can you imagine having a hook cut through your lip, and being dragged underwater and drowned/gutted and eaten by a group of fish out 'humaning'? It's only that city folk never see fish, and fish aren't 'furry' :rolleyes: that means fishing hasn't been banned as well.
Come on then, anyone care to argue against those points? :)
voodoo_melon
19-11-2004, 12:31
- spread desiese,
- kill for fun,
- if left unchecked they will over whelm the contryside AND the towns, then all you lot who say "oo the fluffy foxes" will change your tune and hunt the buggers :) So do people, should we hunt them too? ;)
Tbh I don't think it should be banned, if it was rats there wouldn't be any outcry about it but because it's Basil Brusheveryone gets worked up about it :rolleyes:
So do people, should we hunt them too? ;)
Tbh I don't think it should be banned, if it was rats there wouldn't be any outcry about it but because it's Basil Brusheveryone gets worked up about it :rolleyes:
Certain people possibly ;)
Basil brush, nail on the head..........
Jackal - :clap:
McRearout
19-11-2004, 12:34
Seafish for food are caught mainly by net.
Coursefish are treated well by course anglers and always returned relatively unharmed. Most Rivers and lakes being stocked with extra local fish, in turn giving much neede help the local riverside wildlife like otters, kingfishers etc...
I agree that game fishing where the fish is killed is wrong.
A wild dog/wolf/bear (all species wiped out in britain by humans) would kill a baby to eat.
Who on earth leaves a newborn baby unsupervised in the country/back garden anyway?
Hunting, fishing and shooting! Where will this end?
Hunting, fishing and shooting! Where will this end?
It wont, you now have lots of board anti hunt protestors looking for a new hobby..... place bets now.
ive said with licenses as i believe hunting is wrong, but peoples lives depend on farming, which foxes can have a big effect on.
So i believe that people should be allowed to hunt should it become nessasary to protect there livestock.
McRearout
19-11-2004, 12:43
ive said with licenses as i believe hunting is wrong, but peoples lives depend on farming, which foxes can have a big effect on.
So i believe that people should be allowed to hunt should it become nessasary to protect there livestock.
And hunting is still allowed, just not with dogs.
Many species of animal are culled effectively every year with guns.
And hunting is still allowed, just not with dogs.
Many species of animal are culled effectively every year with guns.
ah so i am mistaken, my appologies. :)
In that case i would say ban it.
The Artist
19-11-2004, 13:15
http://homepage.eircom.net/~icabs2/gallery/gallf1.jpg
http://homepage.eircom.net/~icabs2/gallery/gallf5.jpg
I say Ban it..... :down:
Or maybe we all could just Kill every animal that causes any kind of nuisance to us. Yeah lets just hunt anything that bothers us with a pack of hounds and rip it to bits.......
Cant believe this is 2005....sigh!
Bayside Blue
19-11-2004, 13:20
:hurl:
Why do people want to ban Hunting?
1)Foxes are a nuisance. Tehy kill cjickens, ducks, cats and any small animal they come across. If they came across an unattended baby, they'd probably rip out it's throat
2) Foxes don't just kill to eat. The kill everything they come across
3) Foxes will now have to be either shot or poisoned. I think you'll agree that poisining or a bad shot will be more cruel than hunting, which is relatively quick and effective.
4) If you ban hunting, you HAVE to ban fishing. It's just as 'barbaric'. Can you imagine having a hook cut through your lip, and being dragged underwater and drowned/gutted and eaten by a group of fish out 'humaning'? It's only that city folk never see fish, and fish aren't 'furry' :rolleyes: that means fishing hasn't been banned as well.
Come on then, anyone care to argue against those points? :)
OK :)
1) Tripe. Have there been any recorded cases of (non rabid) foxes killing infants, ever?
2) Not the ones round here, they'll take one hen and leave the rest, nor the ones in the cities, where I've never heard of single cat or small dog being attacked by a fox.
3) I agree that foxes need to be controlled (although in no way as big an issue as the several million feral cats that the vast majority of the public would be horrified to see controlled, sentimental lot) - badger culling is being trialled why not fox culling? Are you seriously arguing that hunting with hounds is the most effective and efficient way of controlling them?
4) The neurophysiology of fish and higher mammals like foxes isn't comparable, foxes have a far higher capacity to suffer pain and to be aware of what's happening to them, ergo hunting with hounds and fishing are are not morally comparable.
A couple of other points:
This didn't come about because of a vocal minority, it came about because the vast majority of the electorate (most polls show C.80%) want it and we occasionally do something vaguely democratic in this country.
This isn't about class prejudice, all sorts go hunting (not vegetarians generally but you know what I mean) - it's about cruelty.
The job loss thing - do me a favour, this has been totally misrepresented. If the hunts around here go out of business there will probably be about 4 job losses as a consequence and potentially more new jobs created controlling the fox population in a less disgusting way, if there's really an issue in the area.
Jezz_S13
19-11-2004, 13:48
http://homepage.eircom.net/~icabs2/gallery/gallf1.jpg
http://homepage.eircom.net/~icabs2/gallery/gallf5.jpg
I say Ban it..... :down:
Good post. :thumbs:
Tricky-Ricky
19-11-2004, 13:52
You should see what anti hunt protestors get up to then.... lets just say they obviously dont like horses as much as they do fox's :indiff:
i agree i dont like the way hunting has gone, its is an effective way of dealing with fox numbers, but its has become a nice ride out for mummy and daughter, however mummy and daughter have probably never seen a fox whilst out hunting, the ones that actually do the hunting are the common folks and farmers, the other just tag along.
As far as controlling fox numbers, hunting is toataly inefective!! :nod: hunts account for a minority of fox kills! it has little justification as a form of controll, it only serves as a social gathering for the so called upper class country types! some of which are just there for a ride, others are there for far more sinster reasons! in fact if you took away there class distinction, they would be out on a friday night looking for some poor sod to kick to death! i have lived among them in the country!
foxes, rabbits and pigeons do need some form of control, but using pack of dogs to tear them apart, just satisfies the blood lust of some of these people! nothing more! control should be left to the people who farm and use the land, in a humane manor! as for the hunt dogs and employes, its an unfortunate consequents of the ban, but its not the first time that unemployment has hit the countryside and won't be the last! get over it! shame about the dogs! :nod: but just like the foxes, rabbits and pigeons, they will be classed as an overpopulation of vermin! they have been bred to track and kill! nothing else! i have seen the results of them comming apon someones pet cat or dog during a hunt, and its not nice!! rant over, but drawn from experience.
Angry Paul
19-11-2004, 13:53
If foxes dont kill for fun, why then do they kill every chicken in sight, and only take one, if they killed only for food, they would kill one and take one.
THEY KILL FOR FUN - THEY FIND IT EXCITING - SO THEY KEEP DOING IT.
Foxes kill all the hens in a henhouse because they react to movement.
The chickens are scared witless by the fox being there (understandably), the fox then reacts to the amount of movement and lets face it a chicken isn't hard to kill so unfortunately that is how a fox raid for ostensibly one chicken turns into a slaughter.
To suggest that any wild animal kills for fun is far fetched to say the least...
SX Me Up
19-11-2004, 13:56
Have to say again like I did with smoking, I'm not too bothered what other people do, but it is true that foxes are vermin. I think though, hunting with dogs should be banned as it's just unfairly cruel, it takes them a while to die so there's a lot of suffering, it's inhumane. But hunting with guns should continue - the fox population needs to be controlled as they're not cute and cuddly like people tend to make out, and this is really the best compromise between hunters/pro-animal rights groups. If they're not shot in hunting, they'll only be shot by farmers.....
Nathan_200sx
19-11-2004, 14:18
Good post. :thumbs:
Ditto, but i have seen far worse at the side of the road. :nod: :nod: :nod:
How dare you city folk pontificate upon what people and life in the countryside should be like... Does it affect you? Directly?
No?
Didnt think so. So get your limp wristed tree huggin hippy buddhist Labour voting asses out of our faces.
The only people who know what is best for the countryside...
Is the people that live there, and work the land and live off the works generated by it.
I feel rather strongly about this. I live in London now, and 99% of the people I meet have never been to Scotland, even though its only a 4 hr train journey away. They may have been to Mecca, or Peshawar, or Lhasa or wherever, but they dont know JACK about the country they live in.
When you have walked a few moons in the moccasins of a ghillie who LOOKS AFTER the land in its complicated Life and Death balance, then come to me with your bleeding heart Labour drivel stories.
And further more, if the 80% voters didnt live in the cities, or read the guardian or vote Labour then I would be surprised. How many of that 80% actually have a job in the countryside? Or HAVE TO LIVE THERE (and quite rightly why not too).
So shove your statistics.
Come stalking with me in the filth, mud rain and guts and then we will talk, and the myxamotosis rabbits that spread other disease, or the deer that need culling because they will affect the other animal balance.
The only reason why we need this is because ****ers that eliminated beavers, wolves and other native species to Scotland had no idea about the balance of nature.
So we must work the land. If city folk dont understand, then I would happily drop you on the spot cause your too insular to find out for yourselves.
And further more, if the 80% voters didnt live in the cities, or read the guardian or vote Labour then I would be surprised. How many of that 80% actually have a job in the countryside? Or HAVE TO LIVE THERE (and quite rightly why not too).
So shove your statistics.
Well, I live and work in the countryside with a lot of other people and the majority are anti-hunting. Who set you (or the CSA) up as a spokesman for all country folk eh?
Bayside Blue
19-11-2004, 14:25
I still say give them all guns :D
Either that or give all the peeps on this thread guns and let them sort it between themselves :D theres gonna be SXOC war soon me thinks :wack: :indiff:
Jezz_S13
19-11-2004, 14:27
How is a bunch of hoo-rah webfoots poncing around on horses with a pack of dogs ripping up a few foxes 'best for the countryside'?
Shoot em yeah if you have to, but no need to make a song and dance about it.
All very well,but as someone who was brought up on a farm, a chicken farm at that i have to say i despise foxes with a passsion.If your going to kill them dont dress up and blow a trumpet,shoot em.THeres plenty of incedences in hampshire of hunts saving and raising cubs to release so they have something to chase.now foxhunting is seen as "anti govenrnment" plenty of people i meet at work have jumped on the "i come from the countryside" bandwagon,there are clueless people on both sides of the arguement
We do all have gunS already. ;) But you dont need rifles and shotguns in Cities do you, not unless your going REALLY big game hunting. Im not a spokesman, just feel strongly about it because I have seen things for myself and am fed up with the nanny state breeding a nation of limp wristed moral high ground people who dont know what they are talking about.
So if it doesnt affect you, deal with it.
Come stalking with me in the filth, mud rain and guts and then we will talk, and the myxamotosis rabbits that spread other disease, or the deer that need culling because they will affect the other animal balance.
The only reason why we need this is because ****ers that eliminated beavers, wolves and other native species to Scotland had no idea about the balance of nature.
So we must work the land. If city folk dont understand, then I would happily drop you on the spot cause your too insular to find out for yourselves.
Foxes eat rabbits.
Those native species were, occasionally, a direct threat to people. I don't condone what people did then but we shouldn't judge them by today's standards.
Your argument doesn't support hunting with hounds so much as population control by some means undecided.
So what? Big deal.. And your point is..... What? I am not condoning anything. Killing is killing. Ultimately does it matter how the fox or rabbit dies? What does it think once its dead? "Oh I know I was a disease vector so I preferred being shot than killed by a hound or a wolf - thank god I have a choice under New Labour"
archenemy.co.uk
19-11-2004, 14:33
Ban it
I wouldn't mind so much if they were happy to ride round chasing a scented rag or something but the blood thirsty Neanderthals just can't resist brutally killing animals
For that I say ban it
should have been put off for a while so they could find homes for the doggies etc :D
McRearout
19-11-2004, 14:33
We can all argue whats wrong and right.
At the end of the day it will be illegal - and for that i'm glad. Alexjj is now talking about violence towards members and non-members of the sxoc just because they don't agree with his views.
This was brought up again for an interesting debate, not a boxing match. :indiff:
OK :)
This isn't about class prejudice, all sorts go hunting (not vegetarians generally but you know what I mean) - it's about cruelty.
I love being the exception to the rule :D
No-one will ever agree about hunting, like smoking, everyone has a different view. I have never once tried to force my opinion on hunting on others, it has always been my choice to hunt. But one problem is that this is another way of live that this 'free country' :rolleyes: is now controlling. So many problems in this country and they waste all this time on hunting :no:
The other thing is, I have lived in the country and have friends that make their living on farms etc, how many of you that are opposed to it have actually really seen the damage a fox will do? How many of you have had to clear up the awful mess that they leave? Have you seen a pile of 20 dead and mutilated chickens because the fox took ONE? I have :(
So you ban hunting, does that mean they are going to relax the law on guns and rifles? If a farmer or landowner cannot have a hunt do it, he will have to control it himself, so shotguns all around then :thumbs: I certainly don't want to be walking the dog and end up with her dying because poison is put down.
Some people find loud exhausts annoying, what if that is next? Isn't it your rights and freedom that is more important and aren't we all entitled to that?
should have been put off for a while so they could find homes for the doggies etc :D
They can't be homed, they will never be suitable as pets and mixed with other dogs,etc :(
Not at all, Im not violent unless you start taking peoples jobs and way of life away. How is it ok to accept that a minority can kill animals in a horrific manner like Halal and Kosher ways (have YOU ever been to the Middle East on a project and watched sheep and other higher order animals than foxes being tortured and bled to death? Improves the flavour you know if the animal suffers, according to the religious butchers)
Further to this. Why is it ok to enshrine Halal and Kosher methods of killing animals in the UK - but FcuK NO we cant have British traditions..
Wake up. This government is a joke - undermining a millenia old British tradition.
McRearout
19-11-2004, 14:38
Some people find loud exhausts annoying, what if that is next? Isn't it your rights and freedom that is more important and aren't we all entitled to that?
I fail to see how this is relevant to an archaic bloodsport
Angry Paul
19-11-2004, 14:38
Im not a spokesman, just feel strongly about it because I have seen things for myself and am fed up with the nanny state breeding a nation of limp wristed moral high ground people who dont know what they are talking about.
It's not really an issue of the limp wristed taking the moral high ground.
The fact of the matter is that the majority of people in the UK have shown that they feel that fox hunting on horseback with hounds if something that they want to see banned - be that for reasons of cruelty or that they just don't like toffs on horses is neither here nor there in the final outcome.
The government have seen this and have after 7 years finally done it...
Deal with it...
Nathan_200sx
19-11-2004, 14:39
The only people who know what is best for the countryside...
Is the people that live there, and work the land and live off the works generated by it.
.
ok so if someone had worked the land from 12 until they were 18, been a bush beater, had hunted pheasants, rabbits, foxes, trees and other variouse inanimate objects with shotgun's, had sat in a farmyard all night shooting rats with an air rifle or .22 rifle and well erm had been born and bred there, would you listen to them?
Archaism and tradition gave you this country. Further more if you dont learn WHY they exist, or exxperience it for yourself then frankly why is your opinion worth anything? Read some studies or go and experience it in an unblinkered manner for yourself.
I fail to see how this is relevant to an archaic bloodsport
It's a point about our rights being taken away by people who don't understand and aren't affected by things. Sorry I'm tired and couldn't think of anything better :(
McRearout
19-11-2004, 14:41
How is it ok to accept that a minority can kill animals in a horrific manner like Halal and Kosher ways (have YOU ever been to the Middle East on a project and watched sheep and other higher order animals than foxes being tortured and bled to death? Improves the flavour you know if the animal suffers, according to the religious butchers)
Further to this. Why is it ok to enshrine Halal and Kosher methods of killing animals in the UK
Wake up. This government is a joke - undermining a millenia old British tradition.
With this I totally agree with you.
Yes I would listen to someone as experienced as that, if there were sufficient numbers to provide some sort of stochastic numerical support for an anti-hunting argument.
I revel in tradition, and am proud of certain British ones, hunting being one of them.
McRearout
19-11-2004, 14:43
Archaism and tradition gave you this country. Further more if you dont learn WHY they exist, or exxperience it for yourself then frankly why is your opinion worth anything? Read some studies or go and experience it in an unblinkered manner for yourself.
To most people who read the above it would be obvious who the blinkered one is.
Next on the list will be the Grand National :nod: and then the rest of the National Hunt racing. The roots of the sport have been removed so it won't take long to get rid of the rest of the tree. :mad:
sroberts
19-11-2004, 14:44
My parents live right in the middle of one of the biggests hunts in the UK, watching the hunt as they catch the fox is the most shocking thing ever :eek: I'm glad to see it banned. Hate the sport :down:
Although can it be called a sport :censored: :censored: the fox never wins :censored: :censored:
The only funny thing that i've ever heard about the local hunt, was when they thought some private land and the pack hounds ended up in kennel of a local dobbermann breader :D :D The people who ran the hunt said 'what the dogs did to the hunt hounds was cruel and inhuman.' :eek: Now theres is a contradiction in terms, so it right to rip a fox to shreads.
They even had the balls to try sue the breader, for loss of earnings :eek:
Si :)
archenemy.co.uk
19-11-2004, 14:44
how many of you that are opposed to it have actually really seen the damage a fox will do? How many of you have had to clear up the awful mess that they leave? Have you seen a pile of 20 dead and mutilated chickens because the fox took ONE? I have :(
Thats the worse excuse :D
[Blackadder] So some sort of fence would be in order then [/Black Adder]
Message to all farmers:
Keeping your chickens in barns/sheds or coops, or behind fences - prevents foxes from killing them :thumbs:
Number of foxes killed by hunts must be minimal compared to how many are shot or run over on the road alone :confused:
I say again, I could forgive them riding rough shod all over whoevers property if they just didn't have to kill something at the end
I enjoy driving but I don't have to run something over and reverse to make sure before parking up and going home :wack:
Nathan_200sx
19-11-2004, 14:44
Yes I would listen to someone as experienced as that, if there were sufficient numbers to provide some sort of stochastic numerical support for an anti-hunting argument.
I revel in tradition, and am proud of certain British ones, hunting being one of them.
say hello to me then ;)
for the record, dont really agree with it but dont agree with banning it either. Im just scared it wont stop there.
And further more, if people as experienced in these matters gave me a "smoking gun" evidence based argument that our millenia old tradition needed changing, (albeit we allow other cultural norms like Islamic and Jewish methods of killing animals in MORE horrific ways in our country) then you know what, if I had a decent argument.
I would probably agree.
Hi Nathan, honoured to meet you, Id love to chat about this with you - I will pm you and maybe we could talk more, Im genuinely interested in what you have to say!
Lucky man, growing up like that. Last of a dying breed I dont hope!! Pun intended ;)
I said "generally" (Hayley, blimey this thread is moving fast), I'm careful like that :D
how many of you that are opposed to it have actually really seen the damage a fox will do?
We've lost two chickens since September....because people were stupid and didn't shut the coop properly.
Amazing how much we presume in these cases isn't it?
Farmers can already have licensed shotguns, there are high power rifle licensed huntsmen for controlling deer, etc. Can't see the issue.
So what? Big deal.. And your point is..... What? I am not condoning anything. Killing is killing. Ultimately does it matter how the fox or rabbit dies? What does it think once its dead? "Oh I know I was a disease vector so I preferred being shot than killed by a hound or a wolf - thank god I have a choice under New Labour"
My point was that I wasn't sure what you were arguing in favour of, population control or hunting with hounds.
Would you prefer to be hung, drawn and quartered, crucified or to die of a smack overdose? I know which I'd choose and I also know that a fox's ability to feel pain isn't a million miles from my own. Do you think we have a moral responsibility to miminmise the suffering of animals where we can? Any decent person from a farming background I've ever met thinks we do and this is why so many of them are against hunting IME.
Thats the worse excuse :D
[Blackadder] So some sort of fence would be in order then [/Black Adder]
Message to all farmers:
Keeping your chickens in barns/sheds or coops, or behind fences - prevents foxes from killing them :thumbs:
Number of foxes killed by hunts must be minimal compared to how many are shot or run over on the road alone :confused:
I say again, I could forgive them riding rough shod all over whoevers property if they just didn't have to kill something at the end
I enjoy driving but I don't have to run something over and reverse to make sure before parking up and going home :wack:
Ah someone who doesn't know about foxes :wave: They can and do get in enclosures. But what about lambs? Should they all be caged too :rolleyes:
Let's just hope they don't start on something you enjoy.
Why are you anthropomorphising? Its a rather "Human" point of view isnt it? Well I hear your point of view but your arguments are weak old man... ;) just paraphrasing Darth Vader here... Come to the dark slide!
Seriously though. You have to take a utilitarian point of view here I think. I understand your argument, and I dont feel it has any gravitas as compared with those predicated on tradition, culture, loss of jobs, industry, way of life, and spin offs of population control.
I agree with Nathan here. Who is to say that the cow doesnt feel pain. Or the sheep (higher order ungulate) or the deer? Or rabbits?
Where would you end SFC? With a nation of Labour voting vegans? Or with a Britain with respect for ITS OWN CULTURE AND TRADITIONS.
Im proud to say I am proud of our traditions. And I am a proud carnivore.
THAT is the only reason I came out of the trees and started putting on serious brain weight, using tools, inventing things is because of Animal proteins. The day I have to subsist ONLY on poorer quality vegetable fats and proteins and amino acids (such as there are in veggies) is the day I go back to the seas where everything is a little to salted for my liking..
McRearout
19-11-2004, 14:57
Let's just hope they don't start on something you enjoy.
They day a sinister Fox starts on my car or my wife or tries to sell my children drugs or starts stealing my washing - I'll hunt them myself with a horn up my butt. :rolleyes:
Id love to see that... I might join you. Sounds fun.. Musical trumps.
archenemy.co.uk
19-11-2004, 14:59
Ah someone who doesn't know about foxes :wave: They can and do get in enclosures.
Build better ones then ;) surely a human can out build a little fox. If its not feasible then may be they should do something else. I'd like to grow pineapples and bananas in my garden but the weathers too cold.......
But what about lambs? Should they all be caged too :rolleyes:
still say its not an effective way of controlling fox numbers so all the above is pointless :confused:
I don't go around killing any kind of animal. why should anybody do it?
Hunting is not necessary, they'd have to be out every single day, 1000s of packs of them, to make any real difference.
Hayley if you enjoy it - the riding I presume, then go rag hunting or whatever they call it. Surely you don't enjoy watching one animal killing another do you? Apart from that wheres the difference.
Other "sports" where one animal kills another due to humans - badger baiting, dog fighting etc are just the same - would you go to a dog fight Hayley?
Labour are (currently) a bunch of right-wing, big-government, authoritarian, society manipulating war mongering f*ck wits
I think it's neuro-scientists who are to say that the cow does feel pain, and philosophers of ethics to say that this means we should treat them better, or that we can ignore them because we're superior in some way
I'm with Peter Singer on the ethics of this so you can certainly stick me on the lunatic fringe and completely ignore me if it makes you feel better :)
Bayside Blue
19-11-2004, 15:01
Plan B ... My serious side of the arguement again
Sterilise thick inbred toffs... Including ones with huge ears.
Sterilise Foxes...
Both problems gone. :nod:
No foxes to hunt / kill chickens
No bottom of the barrel snotty nosed pillocks who want to hunt foxes.
Saw one guy on the BBC the other day saying he hadnt had such an adrelaline rush since his kid was born WTF?? nice to compare those two things don't you think. What a PRICK! :censored:
'Hey kiddo seeing you for the first time when you were born was like watching a fox being torn apart.'
Thanks :thumbs:
sroberts
19-11-2004, 15:13
Its just the fact they call it sport makes me :hurl: WHen I lived at home with the parents I got to see the local hunt close up :hurl: I never once heard that the fox got away.
So thats sport :rolleyes:
Si :)
manic_mechanic
19-11-2004, 15:20
Build better ones then ;) surely a human can out build a little fox. If its not feasible then may be they should do something else. I'd like to grow pineapples and bananas in my garden but the weathers too cold.......
They do - they're called battery farms, and I personally won't support factory farming (at least knowingly)
archenemy.co.uk
19-11-2004, 15:24
They do - they're called battery farms, and I personally won't support factory farming (at least knowingly)
Yes, yes, but I fail to see why a serious farmer can't build a fence to keep a fox out,
but its not all about fencing is it :wack:
If you fail to see why a serious farmer cant keep a fox out, you know a lot less than you realise about countryside matters. They are very good at getting in places, and to ring fence a farm in sheet steel which is really high and below ground, as well as throughly maintained with secure access/egress points is ahem... slightly out of reach of most farmers who are suffering from the last time Labour bent them over and gave them a good one. Phil... they are a serious threat to farmers!
Jezz_S13
19-11-2004, 15:33
why don't that just booby trap a chicken then?
if it's going to die by being eaten it may as well take the fox with it.
You know I never thought of that. I could improvise an explosive device... Hang on I think SOE started this a while ago with rats and the germans.. (seriously!!) IIRC my lectures..
1 chicken + 1 stick of C4 moulded to fit up its bum plus length of Det cord connected = one susprised fox...
if foxes are such a menace to farmers why do some of the hunt
fraternity encourage them , by building false sets and leaving dead animals around. Not to mention the odd fox in a bag realeased for the hunt trick.
They day a sinister Fox starts on my car or my wife or tries to sell my children drugs or starts stealing my washing - I'll hunt them myself with a horn up my butt. :rolleyes:
I meant the government :rolleyes: :)
The thing is I respect your opinions on hating hunting, but you can't give me the courtesy of respecting mine. Not really fair is it :(
Mono Phil - Sorry if my comment was rude in anyway, but my love of hunting is the same as your hate for it. I have never heard of any drag hunting down here or I would have gone to that as well :nod: I love animals (hate children), I cry at the RSPCA adverts. It's why I became a vegetarian. But I also believe that hunting is the most effective method (just my view) I have grown up with it and having horses means that I have always been around farms and that so I guess it is a way of life to me. And I believe that I am allowed that belief and others (not having a go at anyone on here) who sit in their inner city apartments thinking the countryside is the local park, and believe that all the world is rosey and peaceful, should not tell me any different.
One last point as this is a topic that will never be agreed upon, please can people just be aware that some of the horror stories that are shown or heard about hunting, does not apply to them all. And not all of the protestors can be called animal lovers. One lot in Devon actually tied wire between the trees, at least two horses dead with their chests ripped open :(
archenemy.co.uk
19-11-2004, 15:38
If you fail to see why a serious farmer cant keep a fox out, you know a lot less than you realise about countryside matters. They are very good at getting in places, and to ring fence a farm in sheet steel which is really high and below ground, as well as throughly maintained with secure access/egress points is ahem... slightly out of reach of most farmers who are suffering from the last time Labour bent them over and gave them a good one. Phil... they are a serious threat to farmers!
Forget about the fences then
straight to the point
People who pit one animal against another in a fight to the death, be it dog fighting, cock fighting, badger baiting are sub human
In my opinion, and the opinion of the majority of people, anybody who hunts foxes with dogs is little better
Is that clear enough? :)
Find another way to kill foxes, and by all means go on riding around the countryside :thumbs:
Angry Paul
19-11-2004, 15:38
You know I never thought of that. I could improvise an explosive device... Hang on I think SOE started this a while ago with rats and the germans.. (seriously!!) IIRC my lectures..
1 chicken + 1 stick of C4 moulded to fit up its bum plus length of Det cord connected = one susprised fox...
Who else is thinking of Bill Murray in Caddyshack?? :thumbs:
Off topic I know, so sorry... :(
archenemy.co.uk
19-11-2004, 15:43
One last point as this is a topic that will never be agreed upon, please can people just be aware that some of the horror stories that are shown or heard about hunting, does not apply to them all. And not all of the protestors can be called animal lovers. One lot in Devon actually tied wire between the trees, at least two horses dead with their chests ripped open :(
yeah animal rights people make far more trouble than they ever do good.
They planted a bomb under a car on my brother in laws street, imagine if he'd been walking past when the target got in his car :no:
Jezz_S13
19-11-2004, 15:44
he'd be dead or only part of his former self.
I love animals (hate children)
:eek: :confused: :(
Jezz_S13
19-11-2004, 15:46
I have to agree, children or horrible, a leech to parents and to society as a whole.
EDIT: I'm not suggesting you should hunt them though.
It looks like Tony's being trying save his butt (from the BBC website)
What's the prime minister had to say about all this?
Tony Blair committed the government to giving Parliament time to consider the ban proposals when he told BBC Question Time in 1999 that hunting "will be banned". But on Thursday he said most people would have preferred a compromise. He voted this week to allow some licensed fox-hunting.
I agree - check out some ideas for children in the following B3ta
http://b3ta.com/board/3954267
This isnt too bizarre for b3ta though - and no swearing or animals were harmed in any way. Also no nudity, mkay?
manic_mechanic
19-11-2004, 16:05
why don't that just booby trap a chicken then?
if it's going to die by being eaten it may as well take the fox with it.
I like that logic! Its got to be worth a try!
Alexjj is right, its very difficult to keep foxes out of chicken coops - and do we really want the countryside defaced with the Stalag-luft's that are being suggested.
As an aside has anyone got any good ideas about culling mink other than dogs? Poison is rather indiscriminate esp. as mink fill a similar ecological niche to stoats, and shooting is a bit silly for minks..............................
THEY KILL FOR FUN - THEY FIND IT EXCITING - SO THEY KEEP DOING IT.
.
Stating that suggests that you feel that foxes and other animals have the same thoughts, feelings and value judgements as humans.
Do you feel that?
(I do, in certain ways, mainly believe that animals are not all instinct)
Also, you must consider that the whole issue is NOT about the foxes at all. The problem is actually the availability of what foxes like to eat.
If I had a cough caused by a tumour in my lung, would you give me cough syrup to stop the symptom without treating the cause?
And what about crows? From what I remember, tho this may be wrong, they pick on new born lambs and such...
For me, the issue now is the wrong constitutional debate that this has brought up. The hunt protestors agree, implictly, to live in a democracy. The elected representatives have used their constitutional RIGHT (as defined by Parliamentary law) to push this bill through.
Therefore, the protestors are now actually attacking the fabric of our political constitution.
BTW If the legal challenge against the 1947 Parliamentry Act succeeds (which it won't), a lot of laws will face review or repeal, including the homosexual age of consent and various other things.
If the Human Rights appeal succeeds, then I'm wondering if I can bring a case to the court against the Blood Service for banning homosexual people from giving blood - this is pure victimisation of a minority group.
So, you see, the issue is not as clear cut as it seems. It's actually rather interesting. And I can't wait for the blood to be split (which it may be, since one of the anti-ban lobby has threatened "assasination")
I voted keep it, up untill now it has been perfectly legal to do it so it should stay that way. i don`t care about the ethical views on fox hunting, it`s the principal, i don`t like the way the government is going at the moment banning things left right and centre and coming down hard on otherwise law abiding members of the public eg smokers and drivers, whats next a ban on drinking? car modding?sex? well **** that!! the goverment is interfering WAY to much with us and leaving the criminals/illigal immigrants to do whatever they please :annoyed: :annoyed:
Ban pompus twats from London City in stupid clothes hunting on horses, get in nutters with camouflag jackets and rifles. In fact, just for the effect, allow the use of automatic assault rifles. Kill the little foxy bastards yes, but 30 Londoners and 100 dogs going for 1 fox seems a bit overkill. I'm no doubt missing a major point with this calculation but who cares. Nutters with assault rifles just seems a lot more fun!
trackstar
19-11-2004, 18:17
I love animals (hate children), I cry at the RSPCA adverts. It's why I became a vegetarian. But I also believe that hunting is the most effective method (just my view)
Thats interesting, the foxes hunt because they need to eat, but you hunt the foxes but won't eat them cos you're a veggie? Hypocritical. And what makes you think that taking 40 odd dogs accross miles of countryside with a few dressed up people on horses to kill 1 fox at a time is in the slightest way efficient?
I'm from the country, I know what goes on and it still pisses me off that you people can't find anything better to do with your resources than kill a fox once in a blue moon.
So far the only legitimate reason I've heard is that "they kill our chickens..."
The simple answer, breed more stupid chickens.
Why don't you start hunting the extremist animal rights protesters, no-one gives a sh1t about them.
Stating that suggests that you feel that foxes and other animals have the same thoughts, feelings and value judgements as humans.
Do you feel that?
(I do, in certain ways, mainly believe that animals are not all instinct)
Also, you must consider that the whole issue is NOT about the foxes at all. The problem is actually the availability of what foxes like to eat.
If I had a cough caused by a tumour in my lung, would you give me cough syrup to stop the symptom without treating the cause?
And what about crows? From what I remember, tho this may be wrong, they pick on new born lambs and such...
For me, the issue now is the wrong constitutional debate that this has brought up. The hunt protestors agree, implictly, to live in a democracy. The elected representatives have used their constitutional RIGHT (as defined by Parliamentary law) to push this bill through.
Therefore, the protestors are now actually attacking the fabric of our political constitution.
BTW If the legal challenge against the 1947 Parliamentry Act succeeds (which it won't), a lot of laws will face review or repeal, including the homosexual age of consent and various other things.
If the Human Rights appeal succeeds, then I'm wondering if I can bring a case to the court against the Blood Service for banning homosexual people from giving blood - this is pure victimisation of a minority group.
So, you see, the issue is not as clear cut as it seems. It's actually rather interesting. And I can't wait for the blood to be split (which it may be, since one of the anti-ban lobby has threatened "assasination")
Fcuked if I can see what any of that's got to do with foxhunting or even the English language in places :wack:
manic_mechanic
19-11-2004, 18:38
Why don't you start hunting the extremist animal rights protesters, no-one gives a sh1t about them.
You have a point there its certainly true that elements of our society have less right to live than a fox.............................
Jezz_S13
19-11-2004, 18:43
would also be fun, foxes only have iddy-diddy innards and only therefore make a limited mess, an AR activist (read glorified/justified terrorist) on the other hand...
I personally don't care how the odd fox dies, whether it be by a gun or being ripped apart by some dogs. Foxes aren't cute, fluffy animals, they are nasty pieces of work. :indiff: What I do object to however is the pointless (as far as I can tell) presence of so many horses & riders and their smug "how dare you be on the road in your car the same time as me and my horse while I'm looking like a complete twat" attitude. :mad:
Anyway, now that hunting is now banned you're all probably worried all the dogs will be out of work :( . Fear not people, I have a cunning plan, give the horseriders* a 30min headstart in some field, then RELEASE THE HOUNDS!!!!! and see how they get on. Either that or give the farmers free "mini guns":thumbs: :wack:
*Except the ladies as they look miiighty fine in their jodhpurs :nod: :smitten: :whip:
Jezz_S13
19-11-2004, 19:20
Anyway, now that hunting is now banned you're all probably worried all the dogs will be out of work :(
Nope feck em, they're going in mah belly. :nod:
I couldn't give a shit about the bloke that breeds them for hunting, i guess he'll have to retrain, breed labradors or something else perhaps.
Nope feck em, they're going in mah belly. :nod:
I couldn't give a shit about the bloke that breeds them for hunting, i guess he'll have to retrain, breed labradors or something else perhaps.
LOL :D
I see you have a penchent for canine cuisine aren't you tempted to try a bit dog breeder pudding or something? :wack:
Jezz_S13
19-11-2004, 19:38
no, we need him to keep the pies filled.
A question:
How can you hunt a nocturnal animal, that lives in a hole, with a gun :confused: You can't use a dog anymore to flush it out :no:
The woods are going to filled with idiots with high power hunting rifles. I wonder how long before a "I'll go anywhere I want" rambler gets shot. Maybe they could make it a legitimate Olympic sport - Rambler shooting :D
Thats interesting, the foxes hunt because they need to eat, but you hunt the foxes but won't eat them cos you're a veggie? Hypocritical. And what makes you think that taking 40 odd dogs accross miles of countryside with a few dressed up people on horses to kill 1 fox at a time is in the slightest way efficient?
I'm from the country, I know what goes on and it still pisses me off that you people can't find anything better to do with your resources than kill a fox once in a blue moon.
So far the only legitimate reason I've heard is that "they kill our chickens..."
The simple answer, breed more stupid chickens.
Why don't you start hunting the extremist animal rights protesters, no-one gives a sh1t about them.
It's people like you that piss me off. Not only do you want to control my thoughts and opinions, you insult me at the same time.
Firstly yes I love animals and have trouble killing spiders, rats, etc; but they ARE VERMIN and have to be controlled. Hunting has been working for years, why change it because of a few people like you?
Secondly, the dress is a tradition, do you take the piss out of the Welsh or Scots?
How do you know they only kill one fox at a hunt? If they do, it shows you how well foxes can hide doesn't it :rolleyes:
And as for 'you people', so what sort of person am I then? And can you try and be civil this time.
They can't be homed, they will never be suitable as pets and mixed with other dogs,etc :(
They hunt with beagles don't they? Get 'em in the labs and get some toiletries, shampoo, make-up and cigarettes tested on them :nod:
Job's a good 'un. :thumbs:
I'm not voting on this because, like most people posting on this thread it would appear, I don't know enough about the topic to comment subjectively on it. And I couldn't give a flying toss really. :indiff:
trackstar
19-11-2004, 23:49
It's people like you that piss me off. Not only do you want to control my thoughts and opinions, you insult me at the same time.
Firstly yes I love animals and have trouble killing spiders, rats, etc; but they ARE VERMIN and have to be controlled. Hunting has been working for years, why change it because of a few people like you?
Secondly, the dress is a tradition, do you take the piss out of the Welsh or Scots?
How do you know they only kill one fox at a hunt? If they do, it shows you how well foxes can hide doesn't it :rolleyes:
And as for 'you people', so what sort of person am I then? And can you try and be civil this time.
I just wanted to voice my opinions, I have no intention of trying to influence you, each to their own. If you were insulted by the hypocrite comment maybe you should read your post again and see if it sounds the way I read it; You hate people being cruel to animals but you don't mind seeing foxes chased til exhaustion and ripped to shreds by a pack of hounds in the name of a pastime? If I've got the wrong end of the stick then put me straight and I'll gladly apologise.
Whatever side people take on this issue, its going to be 'us and them', where in my case 'You people' would refer to the pro-hunters, admittedly using some rather slack dialect on my part. Apologies.
Most of my family are scottish, so I can proudly say the concept of traditional dress pre-dates hunting uniforms by a very long time.
You also say hunting has been working for years, and why should it change for a few people like me? It shouldn't! It should, IMO, change because its a barbaric sport and its been wrong from the word go. Foxes are in the canine family yes? Same ecological group as domestic dogs... The only reason you're hunting them is they haven't been domesticated. I've never seen anyone hunt a stray golden retriever.
Opening with "its people like you that piss me off" isn't the best line if you expect me to be civil in return, but I see this is obviously something you also feel very strongly about and I respect that, as I hope you do of me, so I have genuinely tried to word this to not cause you any more offence. I've said all I need to so I'm off to talk about cars.
I'm not voting on this because, like most people posting on this thread it would appear, I don't know enough about the topic to comment subjectively on it. And I couldn't give a flying toss really. :indiff:
This is half the problem IMO - there are people that are aware of it, have been on hunts and seen what happened, have seen the damage foxes can do and have a feel for the whole picture .........
AND THEN
there are Guardian reading city dwellers who wouldnt know a fox if it bit them on the arse. Unfortunately it is the latter that seem to have the greatest say in the debate. :(
If you wanna ban something thats really fcuking the countryside up, do something about Pikeys. Or the flooding that happens every year, or the quotas that are slapped on farmers, or the total lack of public transport ........... etc.
Yeah, in essence Fox hunting is barbaric, but in the grand scheme of things, is 20 foxes a year getting killed really woirth the whole country being up in arms over? Think of the hospitals we could have bought ...... :rolleyes:
Oh and Jezz - you are Herod mate. :nod:
trackstar
22-11-2004, 13:31
[QUOTE=docwra]If you wanna ban something thats really fcuking the countryside up, do something about Pikeys. QUOTE]
Seconded :nod:
i think it should be banned! its very cruel, and when people say its to control population bullsh*t! if thats the case why dont they use some sort of tranqulizer gun and get them that way instead of getting dogs to rip em apart!.
and licensing is surely pointless? as most the people who go hunting r rich ! so paying for a license is kind of pointless it dont resolve anythin!?
wht about if the roles were turned and we were hunted to "control population" and stop "spreading disease" just think about that!
wht about if the roles were turned and we were hunted to "control population" and stop "spreading disease" just think about that!
You feed the rats that live around your house do you?? :confused: :indiff:
If you saw one in the kitchen, would you try and domesticate it or feed it poison that will rot its insides?
Happens all the time - Foxes are not nice sweet creatures, but very similar to a rat. Basil Brush has a lot to answer for. :indiff:
Either way, as a top ranking policeman said over the weekend, its going to be very difficult to enforce - theres nothing illegal about riding round dressed like a twat with 30 dogs ........... :D
The best option for every one is to ban it.
(1) If you have a total ban, it keeps the leftie, animal rights and townies happy that they in there soft cushy world of toffu and non cork corks in their wine
(2) It is totally unenforcable so the country folk will keep on happily hunting and they will be happy
(3) It will end the debate once and for all and the government can go back to debating the real issues of this world instead of fluffing about on something so trivial in the big picture.
Every one wins ........... (except the fox)
Martin T
22-11-2004, 14:16
I think all views have pretty much been aired here so Imaybe we should be proposing solutions/compromises.
Foxes aren't the only vermin, we also have pikeys, chavs, ned's and scallies - and of course the ever wonderfull terrorists, the animal rights protesters - you know the kind that throw rocks at the dogs on a hunt.
We could set up hunts with say 20 chavs, pikeys etc and send the hunters after them - but here is the good bit - arm one of the chavs to give them a sporting chance - for anything to be a sprort - expecially hunting there has to be an element of risk or chance of losing. Say there are 10 people on horses on the hunt give the single, armed pikey 10 bullets for the gun - shoot all the hunters and the dogs will stop. Miss a single shot and they are all f ucked.
Now that would be real sport.
EDIT:
Aitch - they dont use beagles for foxhunting - they use foxhounds. A Foxhound looks the same except is a fair bit bigger. Beagles are used for hunting smaller vermin.
McRearout
22-11-2004, 14:23
If Martin T was running for government, I'd vote for him.
*I'm sure Huntingdon Life Sciences would find a use for the hounds.....
:hurl:
* (signifies I was not being serious)
I don't have a problem with it. Personaly I only really like hunting for food but frankly if people want to hunt foxes with dogs for fun, and as long as they aren't jumping through my hedgerow into my garden, I'm happy for it to continue.
Animals tear eachother to pieces out of desperation daily, so where is the beef with hunting foxes for pleasure ? People are animals too you know. :D
And has anyone here actualy been on a fox hunt ?
They're just drawing our attention away from the more important issues of the day (says a colleague) - such as ID cards and assorted civil liberties.
I People are animals too you know. :D
And has anyone here actualy been on a fox hunt ?
People are animals too - we seem to forget that :rolleyes:
Yeah, Ive been on a hunt - we didnt catch anything, as is the case 85% of the time :rolleyes:
Pretty much what you would imagine - loads of toffs and a few civvies all itching to get off the horse and go for a piss up :D
McRearout
22-11-2004, 14:33
People are animals too you know. :D
Why not hunt humans then?
They cause more problems than foxes
:rolleyes:
Martin T
22-11-2004, 14:55
Why not hunt humans then?
They cause more problems than foxes
:rolleyes:
Read my above suggestion ;)
McRearout
22-11-2004, 14:56
If Martin T was running for government, I'd vote for him.
Martin T
22-11-2004, 17:36
:o
RaZoR RoG
22-11-2004, 21:09
mindless thugs can't get their own way no matter how many people they hurt.
:rant: I hope this comment is about animal rights activists,
the cnuts who like to stick letterbombs in the post, putting mine and my co-workers at risk.
Im sure my kids wont mind if daddy gets his arms blown off or even killed, as long as some cute little fox gets to plunder a few more chicken sheds or some dogs get to give up their 400 fags a day habbit !
I cant see what the fuss is about hunting, at the end of the day its only a fox ffs, theres more important things to worry about, like nonces, price of petrol, gun crime, unruly youths , immigrants etc.
I bet them foxes in the pictures died quicker than Ken Bigley, I think people and the government need to get stuff in perspective in this country ! :rant:
They're just drawing our attention away from the more important issues of the day (says a colleague) - such as ID cards and assorted civil liberties.
This,is unfortunately probably the most sensible thing said in this thread :(
manic_mechanic
23-11-2004, 02:38
This,is unfortunately probably the most sensible thing said in this thread :(
I fear you may be right :(
I decided it was best not to read all the comments. :no:
My opinion: ban hunting of wild animals. Vermin control should be carried out by game keepers or licenced pest control, who can dispose of animals quickly and humanely.
Saying that hunting 'controls' countryside pests is like saying that killing a few wasps by pulling their legs, wings and head off will get rid of their nest. You might gain a great deal of pleasure from it, especially if one of them just stung you, but it ultimately does nothing except make you feel better.
Hunting is there purely for the enjoyment of those doing it and has very little to do with pest control. It is outdated and barbaric and has had its day. If given no other alternative, people could find other 'sport' by replacing the animals so that the 'thrill of the hunt' could continue. Unless, of course, the real reason for the hunt is the enjoyment of actually catching the animal and tearing it to pieces, which, as we are constantly told, isn't the case.
Saying that people who don't live in the country don't understand the way it is, is simply arrogance at its height.
'We will lose our livelihood.' Many town and city businesses have gone bust because they failed to adjust to the current climate and working practises. It is the same thing.
Pulling at heartstrings by saying that x number of hounds will have to be put down is pathetic. The hounds are bred for hunting and wouldn't be there if it didn't exist. They are also kept in cages - sorry, kennels - outside in all weather ready to be taken out for their bloodlust. If a dog kills or attacks animals in the town, it is put down.
McRearout
23-11-2004, 08:27
:rant: I hope this comment is about animal rights activists,
the cnuts who like to stick letterbombs in the post, putting mine and my co-workers at risk.
Im sure my kids wont mind if daddy gets his arms blown off or even killed, as long as some cute little fox gets to plunder a few more chicken sheds or some dogs get to give up their 400 fags a day habbit !
I cant see what the fuss is about hunting, at the end of the day its only a fox ffs, theres more important things to worry about, like nonces, price of petrol, gun crime, unruly youths , immigrants etc.
I bet them foxes in the pictures died quicker than Ken Bigley, I think people and the government need to get stuff in perspective in this country ! :rant:
The quote is aimed at anyone who thinks they can brake the rules by the use of thuggery, be they activists, protesters, wannabe terrorists, people about to be charged for a crime in court or cider filled Ned on a saturday night.
The issue here is that foxhunting is a sick and stupid way of vermin control and I won't hesitate to call the police if I see anyone doing it come March.
Shoot them - people who foxhunt don't give a damn about what pain the fox suffers, so why is it an issue?
Girlracer
23-11-2004, 09:39
and I bet a lot of people got very pi$$ed off when bear baiting was banned.
After all, it was traditional. What else would you use them for ;)
There's even places named after the tradition ; Cock and Bear, Nuneaton (celebrates 2 traditional sports!) Bear and Staff, Leicester Square, Bear Gardens, Dulwich etc.
I live in an area where a bit of hunting is done :mad:
And these tw@ts have being writing over road signs to get their point accross, slogans like "Defy The Ban, We Will Not Bow Down To The Prejudice" to name one, or "No Hunting Ban". Really clever people, not :rolleyes:
What does not Bow Down To The Prejudice mean?
Do they think its a class thing or what? Or is it that they think the people that don't do it are narrow minded and are making a big deal out of nothing?
Fcuking t*ssers. I hate cruelty to any kind of animal, and this is all this is.
These prats saying that they have to put the dogs down and destroy their horses :rolleyes: Is this all these retards use their horses for? Do they never ride them any other time, or do they only use them when they are dressed up in their poncy outfits for their barbaric hobby, lying tw@ts will come up with any crap, surely you can sell a horse. Clutching at straws seems to come to mind :furious:
surely you can sell a horse. Clutching at straws seems to come to mind :furious:
Not if theres no huntsmen to buy it :no:
Fair point sthough - the problem they have got is they bang on about dogs being destroyed, or needing to do it for pest control, when even I (Im not against it if you hadnt guessed) have to admit thats a load of old cobblers.
If they had started arguing with a decent line, then maybe they would be in a better position now. :nod:
Jezz_S13
23-11-2004, 10:48
Sell the horses to pedigree chum, use pedegree chum to feed the dogs, sell the fattened dogs to the pie man, sell the pies to feed me. :D :)
Food chain sorted.
McRearout
23-11-2004, 10:54
Jezz S13's Hound Pie Co.
Jezz_S13
23-11-2004, 11:08
/elvis snarl
Aint nothin' like a hound pie...
/elvis snarl
McRearout
23-11-2004, 11:16
:D :notworthy :smash:
I would just like to say thank you to all of you who have called me - sick, evil, poncy, a twat, rich (I wish) a tosser and all the other names posted on here. Just shows how open-minded and prejudice you aren't :rolleyes:
McRearout
23-11-2004, 12:14
I would just like to say thank you to all of you who have called me - sick, evil, poncy, a twat, rich (I wish) a tosser and all the other names posted on here. Just shows how open-minded and prejudice you aren't :rolleyes:
Its an evocative subject which causes emotions to run high. Its nothing personal to you, the abuse has been coming from both sides.
I would just like to say thank you to all of you who have called me - sick, evil, poncy, a twat, a tosser and all the other names posted on here
Consider yourself lucky, I get called this each time a close a thread.
Speaking of which, either this thread returns to a civil tone people, whichever side of the argument you are on, or I'll close it.
McRearout
23-11-2004, 12:22
I dug this one out, and I think you should close it.
Everything has been said and its a no win situation for everyone involved. It has done nothing but cause people to argue which isn't a very positive thing for this board seeing as we are a community with a common interest.
I apologise If I have offended anyone by digging it up again, but it is an intersting topic.
Stu.
Jezz_S13
23-11-2004, 12:24
Close it, the poll is pretty conclusive.
Girlracer
23-11-2004, 12:28
I dug this one out, and I think you should close it.
Everything has been said and its a no win situation for everyone involved. It has done nothing but cause people to argue which isn't a very positive thing for this board seeing as we are a community with a common interest.
I apologise If I have offended anyone by digging it up again, but it is an intersting topic.
Stu.
Thank you.
It's good to debate even though we can't reach an agreement on the outcome :nod: :no:
:D
After all, that's what a free society is all about :thumbs:
McRearout
23-11-2004, 12:30
:)
I would just like to say thank you to all of you who have called me - sick, evil, poncy, a twat, rich (I wish) a tosser and all the other names posted on here. Just shows how open-minded and prejudice you aren't :rolleyes:
Dont worry about it. Id would wager that 80% of the people arguing against it have never even met a hunter. Notice how many replies there were to the question "Who has actually been on a hunt" ........... :indiff:
The fact that no-one seemed to know that the hounds arent beagles doesnt exactly inspire me that people know all about this rather than what they read in The Sun this morning either :rolleyes:
Close it, the poll is pretty conclusive.
It's quite interesting that only 56% are against hunting, not the 80% of public, or whatever has been quoted by the governement. I would say that we represent a good cross section of society on the SXOC.
There arent enough threads like this IMO - decent debate never hurt anyone :)
McRearout
23-11-2004, 12:39
I wonder what Mycrofts views would have been on this thread..... :D :wack:
There arent enough threads like this IMO - decent debate never hurt anyone :)
Agreed which is why I don't really want to close it. Just want folk to play nice that's all :)
Jezz_S13
23-11-2004, 12:41
I wonder what Mycrofts views would have been on this thread..... :D :wack:
I don't.
I'm sure it'd be whatever got the biggest rise.
Martin T
23-11-2004, 13:38
There arent enough threads like this IMO - decent debate never hurt anyone :)
:nod:
There arent enough threads like this IMO - decent debate never hurt anyone :)
I agree, but not when it just becomes abusive and insulting (to whichever side). I know that I have caused some rather heated debates before :D
So can we all move on now and be friends :)
Martin T
23-11-2004, 13:53
Sometimes people get so worked up by things like this, they forget that their opinion is just that - an opinion. There are no hard and fast definates here - just different opinions.
There's my opinion :)
McRearout
23-11-2004, 14:03
Sometimes people get so worked up by things like this, they forget that their opinion is just that - an opinion. There are no hard and fast definates here - just different opinions.
There's my opinion :)
That opinion offends me.
Oh no it doesn't.
I'm confused.... :D ;)
trackstar
23-11-2004, 14:08
You know what I think....
Me neither :D
SXOC Peace Treaty;
signed by trackstar 12 minutes after the end of his lunch break so he's officially in trouble with the boss... :( :annoyed:
Tricky-Ricky
23-11-2004, 17:45
Dont worry about it. Id would wager that 80% of the people arguing against it have never even met a hunter. Notice how many replies there were to the question "Who has actually been on a hunt" ........... :indiff:
The fact that no-one seemed to know that the hounds arent beagles doesnt exactly inspire me that people know all about this rather than what they read in The Sun this morning either :rolleyes:
True! BUT! you have to remember that not everyone can be botherd to post more than one comment! or none at all! for the record i have been on a hunt, admittedly a long time ago, and have lived in the country for some time, and imo there are a lot of pompous vicious twats in hunting! with the odd exception!
Hayley, i'me not wishing to offend, but its beyond me, that you can profess to be vegetarian, love animals, and still condone hunting! :eek: bearing in mind that the object of the hunt is to run down! catch and kill! a fox, (small dog like animal) with ten to twenty horses + another twenty hounds! and the end result is for the fox to be torn apart by the hounds! :no: this just leaves me totally incredulous! :confused:
Hayley, i'me not wishing to offend, but its beyond me, that you can profess to be vegetarian, love animals, and still condone hunting! :eek: bearing in mind that the object of the hunt is to run down! catch and kill! a fox, (small dog like animal) with ten to twenty horses + another twenty hounds! and the end result is for the fox to be torn apart by the hounds! :no: this just leaves me totally incredulous! :confused:
I know it sounds strange, but I like to be different :D
I care about animals deeply, I have done a hell of a lot of volunteer work with animals, and like I said, I cry at the RSPCA adverts. I'm a big softie :)
But I have still had to kill the rats by hitting them over the head with a shovel after they have been poisoned (they tend to attack if cornered) and I will kill a spider if Andy isn't around. I have owned pet rats, but I do not confuse domesticated animals with vermin. Foxes are vermin.
I have been around horses, farms and hunt yards all my life, I have grown up with hunting as the norm, be it me going or helping to get the horses ready. My horse was bred for hunting. It's normal and a way of life that I am use to. I am lucky that the hunts that I have been on, we have not caught a fox, and I am glad about that. My regular hunt was small, the maximum was usually about 10 of us.
If you want to try and understand, think of this, a fox is in its territory and knows how to hide and get away. Fox hounds are big and cannot squeeze down the holes that foxes can. They stand a good chance of getting away. Now compare that to pheasant shooting where birds are chased out of trees into open air with no cover and nowhere to hide. Guess what I think will be next? And no offence to anyone who goes shooting :)
Anyway, we'll never all agree and it would be boring if we did, but trust me, if you met me you wouldn't think of me what you probably do now :(
trackstar
23-11-2004, 20:56
Exactly.
Debates such as this one are gonna be much more fiery on a forum as you don't know everyone else's background, past experiences etc, or how their opinions are justified.
I don't mind the concept of the hunt, but I've seen a fox get caught and its not nice. When I was a little kid, I'd always watch the hunts that came through the fields around my mates house. It is definately quite a sight to behold. But one day the fox was caught by a dog and it let out this horrific high-pitched howl that went on til the 3rd dog got there and finished it off. Its not something I could cope with now, let alone as a lower school kid.
Yes, foxes need controlling, and I would never wish redundancies or job losses on anyone, but I also think no-one should have to witness something that horrific. Dogs don't exactly make the kill short and sweet, in fact it sounds pretty painful :down:
Tricky-Ricky
23-11-2004, 21:50
Anyway, we'll never all agree and it would be boring if we did, but trust me, if you met me you wouldn't think of me what you probably do now :(
Nah i don't see you as any sort of terible person, just can't get my head around the concept, thats all, :) i'me just a total softie, when it comes to animals, in the past i used to shoot and fish, and will still fish, if i eat what i catch! trout, sea fish etc,
but i have been known to walk in front of a car when they have no intension of slowing when they are about to hit a cat or dog! :furious: they seem to stop pretty quick then! ;) i have also poked my ore in, if somone is being cruel to animals! but thats just me. :)
DaveyBoy
23-11-2004, 22:10
Its a class war, Labour/Lib Dems don't give a stuff about the foxes, it suits their agenda of a making a classless society!!!! Bloody socialists! :mad:
As far as I'm concerned, keep it, I don't like the idea of a hunt, but I don't think they should restrict it. The Upper Classes in Rural areas know more about the countryside than any University educated do-gooder that protests for the fun of it.
As for the people slagging off the "toffs" Well, fair enough, you're allowed your opinions, but reading posts of people slagging off toffs in this thread and in other threads slagging off chavs, it just shows that its probably a good thing that we still have a class system and I'm presuming everyone on here is somewhere between "toff" and "chav". Imgaine a socialist government, we'd all be classed as "chavs" :eek:
If you want to try and understand, think of this, a fox is in its territory and knows how to hide and get away. Fox hounds are big and cannot squeeze down the holes that foxes can. They stand a good chance of getting away. Now compare that to pheasant shooting where birds are chased out of trees into open air with no cover and nowhere to hide. Guess what I think will be next? And no offence to anyone who goes shooting :)
I don't think badly of you as a person, however, your comments shows where the problem lies.
You are trying to justify the hunt itself by saying that the fox stands a good chance of getting away. You have totally overlooked the fact that the fox will have undergone possibly many hours of torment from being run to exhaustion. If it is lucky enough to get away, it may well die from the stress (I'm sure you know the effect that stress has on animals).
Pheasant shooting is completely different. The birds are bred specifically for that purpose and their death is fairly swift.
Its not the ACT of hunting that people object to. Its the WAY the animals are tormented and killed. :(
McRearout
24-11-2004, 08:18
Its not the ACT of hunting that people object to. Its the WAY the animals are tormented and killed. :(
And the way that some people get gratification out of it.
If a fox is Vermin, why do you see them being tended to by the RSPCA? I've never seen Rolf get tearful over a dead Rat.
A Fox is a beautiful wild creature, if they need to be culled, do it how every other wild animal is culled.
I haven't read this thread (time, sorry) but this hunting ban will not save a single fox and will increase the suffering of the foxes.
Also, 9/10 foxes escape and the ones that are caught are old or injured - survival of the fittest like on the African plains.
According to Country File last weekend, the alternative is 'snaring' - which basically traps an animal by it's leg until it dies or is attacked and then killed by something else. ie they die in agony / starvation over several days.
Also, a snare doesn't know a fox from a badger from a bird.
This is isn't me making this up, this was Country File on BBC1 talking to the experts.
This in another one of those laws that has been made for the sake of making one.
Foxes look cuddly so people get emotive over it but no-one gives a toss about rat poison (which makes rats bleed to death) and a damn sight more rats a killed every day than foxes. But they aren't cuddly and fluffy so know-one's interested.
Oh, one more thing: This legislation was put forward in preference to TWO child protection bills - and anyone who thinks foxes' welfare should be put before the suffering of babies and small children is f*cked in the head.
I haven't read this thread (time, sorry) but this hunting ban will not save a single fox and will increase the suffering of the foxes.
Also, 9/10 foxes escape and the ones that are caught are old or injured - survival of the fittest like on the African plains.
According to Country File last weekend, the alternative is 'snaring' - which basically traps an animal by it's leg until it dies or is attacked and then killed by something else. ie they die in agony / starvation over several days.
Also, a snare doesn't know a fox from a badger from a bird.
This is isn't me making this up, this was Country File on BBC1 talking to the experts.
This in another one of those laws that has been made for the sake of making one.
Foxes look cuddly so people get emotive over it but no-one gives a toss about rat poison (which makes rats bleed to death) and a damn sight more rats a killed every day than foxes. But they aren't cuddly and fluffy so know-one's interested.
Oh, one more thing: This legislation was put forward in preference to TWO child protection bills - and anyone who thinks foxes' welfare should be put before the suffering of babies and small children is f*cked in the head.
At last, a post I can wholeheartedly agree with :thumbs:
when it comes to animals, in the past i used to shoot and fish, and will still fish, if i eat what i catch! trout, sea fish etc,
So you are saying that hunting is cruel yet fishing isn't :confused: Sticking a hook in a fishes mouth and then letting it suffocate is OK? I get asthma, I know how scarey it is to feel that you can't breathe, but that's alright and a humane way to die is it? Slowly and gasping for breathe with pain in your mouth :no:
Why do you fish? You can get your fish from the supermarket or fish shop where they are caught in bulk by nets. Or are you satisfying man's oldest instinct to hunt for your own food? Don't tell me it's to get away from wife/kids or enjoy the peace in the countryside, you don't need to fish to sit peacefully by a river, just the same as you don't need to hunt to enjoy riding in the countryside.
McRearout
24-11-2004, 10:38
Seafish for food are caught mainly by net.
Coursefish are treated well by course anglers and always returned relatively unharmed. Most Rivers and lakes being stocked with extra local fish, in turn giving much neede help the local riverside wildlife like otters, kingfishers etc...
I agree that game fishing where the fish is killed is wrong.
I think fishing is a bit more humane, and they are not as intelligent as a fox. Fish are either thrown back if they are not big enough or coarse fish, if they are kept they are usually killed with a fast quick blow to the head, this is for people who fish for a hobby. Large scale fishing with nets I would say that they are left to die (suffocate).
At least they are not chased until exhausted by hounds then ripped to shreds when alive, don't think the 2 compare.
Sorry I just do not like fox hunting, but everyone has an opinion and its not a problem. These people are a total minority participating in this disgusting hobby, these people are living in the dark ages. It needs stopping but it won't happen as politicians are to scared, god only knows why :mad:
These people are a total minority participating in this disgusting hobby, these people are living in the dark ages. It needs stopping but it won't happen as politicians are to scared, god only knows why :mad:
What people :confused:
Sorry, but I do not see that you can say fishing is alright and not hunting. So you only damage the fish a bit :rolleyes: It is still an animal. Has anyone researched what happens to a 'relatively unharmed' fish when it goes back in the water. Maybe that needs looking into. How the hell does anyone know that fish don't think or feel yet foxes do. You have no argument there :no:
Come on people, what would you rather see police on the streets catching murderers, rapists, thieves or out chasing after hunters? Would you rather the NHS was available to you when you need it, or should the idiots in government continue agueing about stupid things like hunting and car alarms (which may annoy people but really doesn't affect the majority of people in any way), because if this MP pushes on with the desire to ban car alarms, how much time is going to be spent arguing about it and how many millions of £'s is going to be wasted on that?
McRearout
24-11-2004, 11:22
Sorry, but I do not see that you can say fishing is alright and not hunting. So you only damage the fish a bit :rolleyes: It is still an animal. Has anyone researched what happens to a 'relatively unharmed' fish when it goes back in the water. Maybe that needs looking into. How the hell does anyone know that fish don't think or feel yet foxes do. You have no argument there :no:
I asked my goldfish to pop down the river and ask a few fish how they felt they were being treated by course fishermen, they said they don't mind.
Apparantly they aren't up for being chased until exhausted, ripped to pieces for fun and having their blood smeered on the faces of young children. :rolleyes:
EDITED TO ADD:
Take a trip down to a Carp fishing lake where the same fish are caught many many times. These Carp breed every year and are worth £££'s and are like pets to the owners.
I know of a man who nearly got a beating for accidently killing a carp whilst fishing at a local lake.
I'm not sure of the mental anguish a course fish suffers whilst being caught, but I bet its preferable to being torn to peices.....
Take a trip down to a Carp fishing lake where the same fish are caught many many times. These Carp breed every year and are worth £££'s and are like pets to the owners.
I know of a man who nearly got a beating for accidently killing a carp whilst fishing at a local lake.
So you take an animal and stick hooks in its' mouth over and over again, you think that is alright and then you call me barbaric :rolleyes:
As with you and hunting, nothing you can say to me will make me think fishing as a hobby is anything but cruel and mean and unecessary. You are hurting an animal (it has to hurt no matter what you say), and you have the cheek to have a go at me :nod:
Anyway, just remember that to some people you fishing is no better then me hunting
McRearout
24-11-2004, 11:54
I'm not trying to stand up for fishing here, if they ban it then so be it.
The issue here is that Foxhunting is to be banned.
The topic is foxhunting.
We could go off on random 'what if?' tangents all day long.....
DaveyBoy
24-11-2004, 13:10
Whatever people's opinions, it shouldn't be banned because "they say so" poxy Labour b :censored: s!!!!!!!
Fishing/Hunting, none of these my hobbies and don't appeal to me in any way, but trust me, this class war that Labour have started will continue and effect things that you and I are interested in! :no:
its my opinion that we should keep hunting, there are more unsuccesful hunts than succesfull, on this we are agreed.
but to me the main point is that its a part of our heritage, whats next to go, the royal family????
I think they should ban it, just use poisons, snares etc, its much more humane :rolleyes:
Tricky-Ricky
24-11-2004, 19:54
So you are saying that hunting is cruel yet fishing isn't :confused: Sticking a hook in a fishes mouth and then letting it suffocate is OK? I get asthma, I know how scarey it is to feel that you can't breathe, but that's alright and a humane way to die is it? Slowly and gasping for breathe with pain in your mouth :no:
Why do you fish? You can get your fish from the supermarket or fish shop where they are caught in bulk by nets. Or are you satisfying man's oldest instinct to hunt for your own food? Don't tell me it's to get away from wife/kids or enjoy the peace in the countryside, you don't need to fish to sit peacefully by a river, just the same as you don't need to hunt to enjoy riding in the countryside.
No i'me not saying that fishing is not cruel! i'me just trying to say that other people can have double standards to! :rolleyes:
in fact i don't fish anymore! but if i did it would be for food!
I was in fact trying to make you feel less hypocritical about your double standards! but after this, i wish i hadn't! :rolleyes:
manic_mechanic
24-11-2004, 20:19
I haven't read this thread (time, sorry) but this hunting ban will not save a single fox and will increase the suffering of the foxes.
Also, 9/10 foxes escape and the ones that are caught are old or injured - survival of the fittest like on the African plains.
According to Country File last weekend, the alternative is 'snaring' - which basically traps an animal by it's leg until it dies or is attacked and then killed by something else. ie they die in agony / starvation over several days.
Also, a snare doesn't know a fox from a badger from a bird.
This is isn't me making this up, this was Country File on BBC1 talking to the experts.
This in another one of those laws that has been made for the sake of making one.
Foxes look cuddly so people get emotive over it but no-one gives a toss about rat poison (which makes rats bleed to death) and a damn sight more rats a killed every day than foxes. But they aren't cuddly and fluffy so know-one's interested.
Oh, one more thing: This legislation was put forward in preference to TWO child protection bills - and anyone who thinks foxes' welfare should be put before the suffering of babies and small children is f*cked in the head.
Hear , hear :clap:
Snaring is an awful way to kill animals, and totally non-selective (you get a lot of black and white striped foxes, if you know what I mean)
I don't really agree with hunting with dogs (although no-ones answered my question about the mink), but its the thin end of the wedge from a rural hating urban labour party - theres more to follow this........................
Martin T
24-11-2004, 20:35
Hear , hear :clap:
Snaring is an awful way to kill animals, and totally non-selective (you get a lot of black and white striped foxes, if you know what I mean)
Have you ever met a black and white striped fox?
They are NASTY motherfu ckers! They even write off 200sx's when DEAD! (look for posts about stoofers car)
Have you ever met a black and white striped fox?
They are NASTY motherfu ckers! They even write off 200sx's when DEAD! (look for posts about stoofers car)
So you're against Fox Hunting but for Badger Baiting?
;)
manic_mechanic
24-11-2004, 22:20
Well badger-baiting isn't normally done by toffs! ;)
One benefit we'll have is not having to "persuade" the lurcher boys from the local council estate to leave our foxes alone (we don't have any hens, and my dad likes to see a few foxes around so long as they're not out of balance)
Had a few close moments with nasty chavs with spades I can tell you...............
Well badger-baiting isn't normally done by toffs! ;)
Surely you're not trying to imply that the purpose of the ban is to have a go at the middle and upper classes :eek: :eek: :eek:
Heavens man, next you'll be suggesting that it's all a clever diversionary tactic by Labour to divert attention away from Iraq and the endless list of IMPORTANT issues that this government has consistantly fcuked up over the past 7 years :indiff:
Don't no if its been mentioned yet but i've thought of a way to reduce anti-social + petty crime, enforce kurfews, bring communities together and to generally make U.K a better place.
CHAV HUNTING- Any scallie that isn't inside by 10pm, looks suspicious, causing a racket @ ungodly hours, ragging his nova about etc. Should be told to run like the wind whilst being chased with big F*£K off bats by the local community. Would brighten up my area and would also serve health and therapeutic purposes. Also you've got something to chat about when you go down the pub :thumbs:
manic_mechanic
24-11-2004, 22:31
Surely you're not trying to imply that the purpose of the ban is to have a go at the middle and upper classes :eek: :eek: :eek:
Heavens man, next you'll be suggesting that it's all a clever diversionary tactic by Labour to divert attention away from Iraq and the endless list of IMPORTANT issues that this government has consistantly fcuked up over the past 7 years :indiff:
:notworthy :notworthy :thumbs:
McRearout
25-11-2004, 08:22
Don't no if its been mentioned yet but i've thought of a way to reduce anti-social + petty crime, enforce kurfews, bring communities together and to generally make U.K a better place.
CHAV HUNTING- Any scallie that isn't inside by 10pm, looks suspicious, causing a racket @ ungodly hours, ragging his nova about etc. Should be told to run like the wind whilst being chased with big F*£K off bats by the local community. Would brighten up my area and would also serve health and therapeutic purposes. Also you've got something to chat about when you go down the pub :thumbs:
Thats a terrible idea :indiff:
I like it!
:nod: :D
mattyboi
25-11-2004, 09:13
Leave the countryside to be run by people from the counrtyside-BOSH! :thumbs:
Martin T
25-11-2004, 10:41
So you're against Fox Hunting but for Badger Baiting?
;)
:D
Seriously though I am against fox hunting but really not that bothered by it. The only time it bothers me is when the local twats on horseback think its allright to carry the hunt on wherever to get the fox, regardless of safety. Like past a primary school at kick out time :mad: Millions of animals are torn to pieces by other animals every day and quite frankly I think there are more important things to get concerned about. Like out ever eroding civil liberties, the gov'ts total inability to successfully run any kind of large project, especially IT adn Tony Bliar's continuing living existence :indiff:
Surely you're not trying to imply that the purpose of the ban is to have a go at the middle and upper classes :eek: :eek: :eek:
Heavens man, next you'll be suggesting that it's all a clever diversionary tactic by Labour to divert attention away from Iraq and the endless list of IMPORTANT issues that this government has consistantly fcuked up over the past 7 years :indiff:
At last, a post I can wholeheartedly agree with* :thumbs: :wave:
*Apart from my earlier post :wack:
Touching on somewhat a controversial subject of the governments proposed hunting bill. Personally I am pro-hunt (regardless of the fact that I am classed as a “townie”) for many reasons that I won’t even begin to go into (otherwise we’ll end up with a HUGE essay = :sleep: ) ;) . And firstly I will say that I do not intend to cause arguments or upset by posting this – it’s just something that I think is quite important for all dog walkers to know, as it hasn’t AFAIK, been well publicized.
Anyway I have downloaded a copy of the countryside alliance’s Hunting Handbook and it certainly made for some very interesting reading.
The reason why I’m talking about this in relation to people who have pet dogs or walk dogs as a job etc is the following statement that is included in the hunting bill and will become illegal from 18th February 2005 and applies to ALL people who walk dogs not just hunt packs/dogs. It reads as follows:
“Implications for all dog owners
The hunting act has serious implications for all dog owners because you could be prosecuted for allowing your dog to hunt any wild animal (except for rats and rabbits). Therefore, if for example your dog chases a squirrel, hare or even a mouse you will be committing an offence and could face a fine of up to £5000, unless you can prove the hunting was unintentional.
In extreme circumstances dog walkers could have their dogs seized by the police to be used as evidence if they believe that illegal hunting is or has been taking place. If then convicted of illegal hunting the courts can order that the dogs are destroyed….”
This to me seems absolutely ludicrous as isn’t it natural for a dog to chase after a squirrel/pigeon etc if it is off its lead and on a walk in a field/whatever? I certainly know many dogs who chase them naturally (I’ve never seen a kill) – but as stated above even the chasing of a squirrel, pigeon, mouse is illegal!
I just find this extremely hard to ‘grip’ as what happens if an old person (widow in particular) is out walking their beloved pet and it chases after an animal and it gets seen by the wrong person? Does this old person get fined and lose the only thing they’ve got left in the world that loves them and gives them joy?
I think this is what people do not realise – that the hunting ban isn’t just directed at hunting on horseback with a pack or hounds after a fox – it applies to all dog walkers too. And I am on a mission to make sure that all the people I know who innocently walk their dogs know this to protect them and their dogs from any legal battles that they could face (and on a lesser scale, to gain support for the pro-hunt case) ;) :D
Admittedly I think it will be hard to enforce as it has to be seen by someone, so I think it’ll just be a case of if you’re unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time (i.e. if an animal rights or hunt ban supporter is about). But it is also still the sheer ridiculous principal of the thing don’t you think?
You can have a look/download the file for yourself (file is in .PDF format) with the above statement (on page 27 of booklet) yourself to prove I’m not telling porkies at www.countryside-alliance.org. Look under the heading ‘latest alliance news’ on left and click on the article ‘alliance outlines future for hunting’. It is the first paragraph and you just click to download it.
Well I hope the dog walkers/owners of you found that interesting and wonder what you all think of it.
Cheers for listening
Aims
P.s. My car is lovely and fast (except for the damn boost pipes keep popping of the I.C. :mad: - come on michelar clips & new pipe!) :D
saw a very funny interview on tv last year with one of the eeads of the country side allience, and a labour MP (who may as well have had T :censored: ER on his forhead :p )
The CA representative asked:
"So, if i come home one day and find a dead mouse on my doorstep, will i have to proove the cat killed it or risk having my dog destroyed for illegal hunting?!"
Made me chuckle... and it caught the Labour toss-pot off guard :D :smash: :notworthy
AshT_200
05-01-2005, 10:22
Personally am Anti Hunt - go on a fox hunt yourself and watch them dig the fox out of a hole to be thrown to the hounds. You won't want to witness it again.
As for dog walking, if you can't control the dog enough to stop it from chasing other animals, then should it really be off the lead?
Therefore, if for example your dog chases a squirrel, hare or even a mouse you will be committing an offence and could face a fine of up to £5000, unless you can prove the hunting was unintentional.
I can really see a court convicting Granny Smith of taking her Poodle out "Hunting" :rolleyes: Unless of course Granny has a bag full of hares :D
Unless the Police intend to watch all dog walkers then I can't really see this being much of a problem :confused:
Jesus, next they will be outlawing dogs chasing cars :rolleyes:
Aye, any one hurd of police discression at all. Im sure there are loads of this we do in our everyday lives that could be construded as illiagal if you were so inclined.
It a better idea than the scotish one where thay are allowed to let the hounds chase a fox but not kill it.... unless they are too late in which case its OK... i mean WTF :confussed:
Oooh Gatso cameras on well known dog walking routes :wack:
Dog hoofs past in pursuit of furry creature and gets caught on camera showing offending mutt and furry creature :D
Dogs will of course now all need standard size number plates :wack:
Dan@DB-Power
05-01-2005, 10:36
Heres the page for peeps:-
http://www.sxoc.co.uk/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=14109&stc=1
Personally am Anti Hunt ...............
As for dog walking, if you can't control the dog enough to stop it from chasing other animals, then should it really be off the lead?
You obviously live in the city mate. You take a dog for a walk in the country so it can get off the lead, other wise you may as well walk down the local shop with it on a lead and a bag in your hand. Running after rabbits and squirrels is part of the experience :nod:
Whats wrong with a dog chasing a squirrel anyway - maybe we should destroy all dogs that chase cats as well?
I don't like foxes, they are ****ing evil creatures that murder everything else on sight...
Pity the foxes do you all? Not me! Pity the hunders of thousands of poor animals who will have their throats ripped out by foxes. We're talking chickens, sheep, ducks, geese, cats, dogs etc etc... :(
The foxes have to die one way or another. If it's not by dog it'll be by poison or shotgun. At least with dogs the fox has a sporting chance. Are the govt also saying that poison is a painless way to die? And how about buckshot in yuor leg infecting it and causing a slow death due to gangrine?!!! The shirtlifting new labour 'poor suffering foxes' argument is NOT VALID AT ALL :mad:
Bloody government have absolutely NO FCUKING IDEA about how this country works. Most of them have never even set foot outside of London :rolleyes: That's why they are also convinced that public transport works!!! Not ouside the M25 it doesn't Tony... :rolleyes:
I went to my first hunt yesterday ... was staying in a cottage down in devon and was invited along ..... they didnt catch a fox, but every one spent a bout 2 hours before and after the hunt drinking coffee / tea / beer / wine and eating homemade pies out side a farm with lots of doggies and horses.
I dont give a fcuk one way or the other about banning hunting or not .. but I did enjoy those pies ... poor bloody sheep and cows and pigs and deer :indiff:
I live in the coutry and i can see both sides! I like foxes cus the kill the pigeons that try and live in my garden. But i HATE fox hunting! its cruel and tbh evil! A load of people getting enjoyment out of murdering a little fox.... Isnt that why they banned Cock Fighting!?!?
Now if the foxes where armed with some sort of explosive so they could suicide on the dogs or used machine guns! Then it would be fair! :)
I live in the coutry and i can see both sides! I like foxes cus the kill the pigeons that try and live in my garden. But i HATE fox hunting! its cruel and tbh evil! A load of people getting enjoyment out of murdering a little fox.... Isnt that why they banned Cock Fighting!?!?
Now if the foxes where armed with some sort of explosive so they could suicide on the dogs or used machine guns! Then it would be fair! :)
And fishing? Is that cruel?
Same as fox hunting as far as I'm concerned... Only you don't get fishes roaming the streets in London, so Tony and his mates can go, 'oww look, a cute iccle fishy-wishy'!!!
It's also a bit of a class war. LAbour still seem to be trying to abolish anything seen as remotely connected with heritage, upper classes and what have you. Only problem is most people who go hunting don't have much money, and aren't all Lord this or Lady that :no:
I wouldn't go hunting myself. I don't kill animals. But, and it's a BIG but, I don't see how they can ban hunting on the grounds they have given... It makes no sense! They HAVE to ban fishing too. Foxes are a PEST. They have to be destroyed one way or another. I Think hunting is no more cruel than the other ways. THAT is what the report the governtment commissioned concluded as well... They just ignored it conveniently...
Tbh.... time will tell if this works.
Ps Jackal, I dont like fishing either i think thats cruel to fishes :P
if fishes can be equated to foxes, foxes can be equated to humans and we should leaglise murder :nod:
I live in the coutry and i can see both sides! I like foxes cus the kill the pigeons that try and live in my garden.
so its ok that pigeons die ... getting ripped apart by a fox ... but its wrong that the fox gets killed by dogs :confused:
we should leaglise murder :nod:
we do ..... its called War, the death penalty, 3rd world debt, the arms trade, smoking :indiff:
Yes pigeons should die!!! ANd squirrels! They're evil little bastards that have kevlar body armour so when i shoot them they spring back up give me the finger and run off... !(*&"**!*"*!!!!!!*"(**$&!%*£*&*!!!!!!!!!!! :@
when i shoot them they spring back up give me the finger and run off... !(*&"**!*"*!!!!!!*"(**$&!%*£*&*!!!!!!!!!!! :@
yup they run off with a few bits of lead in them and will probably die a slow and painful death ........ but you cant hunt the ickle fox because its cruel.
what side are you on again .. you seem to have mixed opinions depending on the animal concerned ?
Martin T
05-01-2005, 12:12
Touching on somewhat a controversial subject of the governments proposed hunting bill.
<snip>
I think everyone on this thread has missed the most dangerous point of this. You mention police discretion. What like cnutstablt Brunstroms discrstion.
It gives the Police that have big crime problems like West Midlands fcukwit police another excuse to bust honest people while leaving hardened criminals with guns alone as they seem averse to real Police work.
We allready have this problem with speeding, soon they will have half the f :censored: ing police force there hidden in popular dog walking spots to bust the evil dog walkers who let their dogs off the lead at any point whilst walking thei dog.
I say replace fox hunting with politician hunting. These cnuts have absolutely no interest in doing their jobs and are only there as vermin to the system.
yup they run off with a few bits of lead in them and will probably die a slow and painful death ........ but you cant hunt the ickle fox because its cruel.
what side are you on again .. you seem to have mixed opinions depending on the animal concerned ?
I did say earlier i can see both sides :) just because i dont like squirrels and i want them to die a painful death... (only joking).... Tbh cats are the best animals alive... letsjust leave it at that then.
My dog will chase anything... cars, bikes, people, other dogs....
Guess I have to keep him on a lead then!
DaveyBoy
05-01-2005, 12:43
The hunting act has serious implications for all dog owners because you could be prosecuted for allowing your dog to hunt any wild animal (except for rats and rabbits). Therefore, if for example your dog chases a squirrel, hare or even a mouse you will be committing an offence and could face a fine of up to £5000, unless you can prove the hunting was unintentional.
In extreme circumstances dog walkers could have their dogs seized by the police to be used as evidence if they believe that illegal hunting is or has been taking place. If then convicted of illegal hunting the courts can order that the dogs are destroyeduirrel, pigeon, mouse is illegal!
Surely this contradicts other laws in place in the British constitution? I thought one of our basic human rights which is we're innocent until proven guilty? I say human rights as its a popular phrase used by many a Liberal left wing loonie and Tony. B. Liar's cronies in the "new" Labour government, stick that one in your pipes and smoke it, hehe. Oooh, actually, hold on, hasn't this basic rule been contradicted in recent years, yes thats right, it'll be another rape/motor related crime/"hate crime" where you're guilty until proven innocent! :no:
As for the hunt ban, I'm pro-hunting (again I'm a townie, LOL) but I understand the country way of life better than the combined knowledge of the entire team of Journalists working for The Guardian and New Labour's cabinet put together! I love the conflicting arguements do-gooders put accross to justify a ban. I think JackaL has hit the nail on the head with the "class war" comment, that's exactley what I think too.
AshT_200
05-01-2005, 12:45
You obviously live in the city mate. You take a dog for a walk in the country so it can get off the lead, other wise you may as well walk down the local shop with it on a lead and a bag in your hand. Running after rabbits and squirrels is part of the experience :nod:
Whats wrong with a dog chasing a squirrel anyway - maybe we should destroy all dogs that chase cats as well?
No I don't live in the city :p
TBH I think the bit about dogs chasing things being prosecuted is silly.... however as for Foxhunting, have you ever been on a hunt?
If not, then you aren't really qualified to comment on it.
AshT_200
05-01-2005, 12:50
And also round where I used to live, if the fox went across private land, the hunt used to think it was their god given right to destroy that persons garden by riding their horses over it, letting their dog worry pets in the process.
Watching a fox being thrown to the hounds after being dug out is an experience that I would never wish on anyone.
if fishes can be equated to foxes, foxes can be equated to humans and we should leaglise murder :nod:
Stoof, be quiet or ill come round and use your on suite, then you will know the meaning of cruel.....lol
We have chickens, the last time a fox got in it killed over 100.it didnt take them all so it obviously just enjoyed the killing!!!!
As for shooting/poisoning a fox, have you ever tried it?, even humaine traps are useless. the trouble with shooting them is that
A) you have to get a gun, which in todays society may not be the wisest thing, young scrote getting a gun to go shooting vermin.....mmmmm local school anyone?
B) you stand more chance of maiming the animal.
Laying poison also puts other animals at risk, ie you lovely little pussy cat for example.
the truth is that hunting although in some peoples oppinion cruel, is a very effective method to keep the fox population down.
As for keeping your dog under control, yes when out in public. but what if you let your dog out at night for a pee etc, its your garden do you stand over your dog at all times...i dont think so.
like you wouldnt stand over your child at all times.
Sorry but its all BS as far as i am concerned, leave the country side to those who know how to run it!!!!
It maybe is BS but how many foxes do these toffee nosed :censored: actually kill? I would assume it is very few, as they are not constantly hunting foxes, surely it is not a truly effective way of controlling this vermin? The other methods must work in some way. I work with people that have guns and one does shoot these things, and dogs that are harrassing farmers sheep :rolleyes: One of these guys is extremely dumb and to tell you the truth it scares the sh1t out of me that he is aloud to keep guns, as he has the IQ of a 3 year old. He has had a license for a while that maybe explains it, I honestly expect to see his picture on the front page for killing a burglar (should really get a medal) as he is that kind of person :rolleyes:
I probably know nothing, but I strongly suspect that the other methods are more effective than fox hunting for the control of foxes?
manic_mechanic
05-01-2005, 13:28
One word = "Alphamax"
Martin T
05-01-2005, 13:34
One word = "Alphamax"
One more important word for controlling fox populations.
"landmines"
or 2 words
"kamikaze rabbits"
and for moles?
"upside down landmines"
:D
It maybe is BS but how many foxes do these toffee nosed :censored: actually kill? ?
well none on the hunt I went on.
But toffee nosed .... nah .. there is no way you can call a bunch of farmers, butchers, house wives, blacksmiths, mechanics, tree surgeons "toffee nosed" .. they are far more down to earth than your average townie with his wine bars and theme pubs, 3 cars per household, designer clothes and jewelry. They were just salt of the mill country folk with a simpler way of life where the work they do benifits there comunity and not the mobile phone culture of Albania. And once in a while they dress up in red and get on there horses and chase a fox .......... they are a lot less stuck up than there red outfits (of which only 20% wore) would portray
But toffee nosed .... nah .. there is no way you can call a bunch of farmers, butchers, house wives, blacksmiths, mechanics, tree surgeons "toffee nosed" .. they are far more down to earth than your average townie with his wine bars and theme pubs, 3 cars per household, designer clothes and jewelry. They were just salt of the mill country folk with a simpler way of life where the work they do benifits there comunity and not the mobile phone culture of Albania. And once in a while they dress up in red and get on there horses and chase a fox .......... they are a lot less stuck up than there red outfits (of which only 20% wore) would portray
Good to have you back mate :thumbs:
manic_mechanic
05-01-2005, 14:45
I think we're hitting the nail on the head here - either "class war" rural haters or leather shoe wearing vegetarian types.
If you don't like hunting (I don't - I prefer to shoot) then don't hunt, and I won't comment on consumerist townies raping the entire globe with their 1.5 tonne hatchbacks (the doors shut with a nice clunk - great reason for overweight cars that),
Cheap coffee (hurting 3rd world farmers - rather than cute furry animals) and all the other vices of modern society.
I'm guilty of all of these (except buying a VW) but I don't try to assuage my guilt by demonising a section of the population I don't like (a la Goebbels)
Illogical rant over! :rant:
Martin T
05-01-2005, 14:57
far more down to earth than your average townie with his wine bars and theme pubs, 3 cars per household, designer clothes and jewelry
Dont get me started on wine bars, theme pubs, 3 cars per household designer clothes, jewelry and CAPPACHINO MACHINES :furious: :furious: :furious: :annoyed: :annoyed: AArgh
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