View Full Version : Euro's or Pounds? Which Currency?
davepalmer1998
07-07-2003, 10:48
Who thinks we should keep the pound?
I for one would find it weird having to deal in euro's rather than pounds.
The exhange rate is pretty messed up as well so it wouldnt really be wise.
I'm not really fussed as long as people don't suddenly put prices up if and when we do change to take advantage of people being unfamiliar with the value of a Euro compared to a £ :|
Jezz_S13
07-07-2003, 10:55
keep the pound.
Personally I say keep the pound. But from a business point of view, life would be much easier if we changed to Euros.
Keep the pund in UK!
Here in germany nearly everything got very expensive since the Euro - freakin fed expensive! :mad:
One simple example: Beer :D Every pub had the same price in the past, a beer was about 5 Marks, now it is 4 Euros, which is 8 Marks, damnit.
Exchange from our old Deutsche Mark to the Euro is dead easy, two old Marks are one Euro. But many stores just kept the value and just changed currency from Mark to Euro, which makes many things twice as expensive as before. In my opinion the Euro is big monkey poo, but who cares what I think? :rolleyes:
Theres only one good thing, the Euro is nearly the same as the dollar, so no maths needed anymore.
money is money in my opinion - its just bits of units (credits) thatr are used to help capitalism instead of bartering.
Credits are just that - it doesnt matter what unit the currency is - remember the old codgers whinging about decimilisation?
Would the US be where it is today with 52 separate squabbling currencies? Unlikely.
As Ian M Banks put it, money is a bad way of rationing. Do away with it altogether.
Unfortunately, our liebe freund in Deutschland is in a poor place to criticese the Euro - you all know how restrictive their labour laws are, and how uncompetitive GroB Bundesrepublik is. Unfortunately they are now suffering years of being overpriced and overprotective.
The UK too would suffer in this manner - but then consumers and businesses would benefit in other ways - and we would of course no longer be Rip off Britain.. So no arguments on that front please... Greater transparency IS good. Just cause we duck and dive and shaft consumers to get our economy ahead doesnt necessarily mean we Brits are actually better off...
Nathan_200sx
07-07-2003, 13:16
Originally posted by alexjj
Would the US be where it is today with 52 separate squabbling currencies? Unlikely.
I dont want to be in a united states of Europe either, it wont work. you cannot have common policies when no one has anything in common. one rule benifits a few countries but strangles a few more, which has just been proved by the new policy for agriculture :rolleyes:
Keep the pound and keep Britain in the hands of the British people.
Originally posted by SR20DET
In my opinion the Euro is big monkey poo,
:D Says it all really :D
Sorry guys, I disagree with your considered and erudite arguments..
The whole point of the EU is to prevent war accurring again, and to strengthen people's links. Seeing as us Brits are a bit of a Mongrel race of Celts, Saxons, Normans (French..) and other Teutonic races.. as well as all the rest!
What is wrong with Europe? Why the parochial attitude? If we are so concerned and jingoistic about foreigners, why do we take it up the bum by letting them all in to feed off us and our DHSS?
Having the famous "little englander" parochial mentality that the rest of the world so detests (particularly the scots, who are unfortunately tarred with the same brush) does not make things better in a considered and thoughtful world.
I for one think that we are Europeans ourselves - if you disagree with that then you are living in OJ land..
Maybe its just a "feeling" you have... hardly factually based is it?
Im not trying to be confrontational - I just dont like the hand wringing and emotional responses that seem to pass for considered debate on the matter.
Europe is a way forward out of the aggressive "my nation first" attitudes that have characterised all of our nations - not just our own - dont be so arrogant to think we are the centre of the world!
I am going to have to disagree with the general concensus here. The Euro is simply a god send. A small example, when I go searching for computer components of elcetrical goods on the internet, it is so easy to make a comparison between different stores all in the Euro zone. For the consumer it invites more choice, and for business widens their customer base. With the UK not taking on the Euro, it restricts the choice of the British customer, and means that the businesses cannot compete for the european customers.
My father runs an international mail order company, but has to have three different bank accounts, GBP, USD and EUR, this is so his customers don't have to worry too much about exchange rates etc. If he only had to deal with two accounts it would make his life a whole lot easier, and considering his GBP account is least used it would certainly reduce his costs.
This is just an example, but having the arguement of maintaining soverenty, or maintaining independence just does not cut it.
Sorry guys
Originally posted by alexjj
The whole point of the EU is to prevent war accurring again, and to strengthen people's links. Seeing as us Brits are a bit of a Mongrel race of Celts, Saxons, Normans (French..) and other Teutonic races.. as well as all the rest!
No you are wrong. The whole point of the EU is to give Germany a third attempt at conquering Europe, with France clinging onto it's shirt tales like a scared little girl.
Originally posted by JB
No you are wrong. The whole point of the EU is to give Germany a third attempt at conquering Europe, with France clinging onto it's shirt tales like a scared little girl.
That's pretty much how I see it and I suppose a lot of others do too. The problem is the government has never said "look if we join the Euro or the United States of Europe you will have this advantage". At the moment I don't see the advantage. Europe seems to be about taking lots of money from us and giving it to the Greeks and other poorer countries who join, and giving fishing rights off our coast to Spanish fishermen. This may be an inaccurate view but it's based on the information I have.
aha the int. you have is not complete guys... saying we give all our money away to poorer EU states such as the Greeks doesnt cut it.. Remember Maggie Thatcher's handbag swinging during the Maastricht treaty?
She got some things wrong but she was an effective leader - and not only that negotiated a %ge worth billions in DIRECT refunds from the EU every year from the 1997 Maastricht treaty - another ill informed parochial john bull argument bites the dust.
We cannot cut it by staying out. Unless we join the NAFTA and Dollar. We cannot stay out of both EU AND NAFTA economically or politically. We are nearly ok - we just need strong leadership in telling the British public what to do. Unfortunately we DONT have strong leadership acting FOR Britains interests...
If we dont engage with Europe then we CANNOT EXPECT IT TO BE AS WE LIKE IT. Its simple. Dont do anything, and moan about it. At least if we participate, we could have the chance of giving some much needed considered and cool political leadership and direction - when Europe needs it most. I think the Brits should lead Europe.. Why not think about that? We could do it - and we have the international clout to manage it as well...
Originally posted by alexjj
We cannot cut it by staying out.
Er, we're doing ok at the moment aren't we. Germany is serious recession and all that.
When people see that we are starting to be disadvantaged by not being in the Euro (and that may or may not happen) then things may change. But at the moment the Euro has a bad press and so does the EU as far as most of us brits are concerned.
Originally posted by alexjj
another ill informed parochial john bull argument bites the dust.
Yeah cos we're so different to the French, Germans, Spanish etc etc etc in this repect. There's no insularity coming from them is there? What about all this bollock about what the commone language of Europe will be? Don't see the French or the Germans batting for their own sides on that.
And what's wrong with having a John Bull argument. Why can't we be British and proud of it without offending people?
Originally posted by SR20DET
Keep the pund in UK!
Here in germany nearly everything got very expensive since the Euro - freakin fed expensive! :mad:
One simple example: Beer :D Every pub had the same price in the past, a beer was about 5 Marks, now it is 4 Euros, which is 8 Marks, damnit.
Exchange from our old Deutsche Mark to the Euro is dead easy, two old Marks are one Euro. But many stores just kept the value and just changed currency from Mark to Euro, which makes many things twice as expensive as before. In my opinion the Euro is big monkey poo, but who cares what I think? :rolleyes:
Theres only one good thing, the Euro is nearly the same as the dollar, so no maths needed anymore.
same here :mad: :mad: :mad:
Er, we're doing ok at the moment aren't we.
- well, no not that well.. What makes you think that? compared to some countries yes - but not by many people's economic criteria, including social and other factors as well. Quality of life is another difficult balancing act to get right - we just pumpd billions into the social services and have had what as a result?
Germany is serious recession and all that.
- Yes aware of this - mentioned this in my initial debate..
When people see that we are starting to be disadvantaged by not being in the Euro (and that may or may not happen) then things may change. But at the moment the Euro has a bad press and so does the EU as far as most of us brits are concerned.
Well that is down to our parochial little islander mentality. I do agree with you here - we could be doing much more and much better all round on every aspect of this debate
as to this : "Yeah cos we're so different to the French, Germans, Spanish etc etc etc in this repect. There's no insularity coming from them is there? What about all this bollock about what the commone language of Europe will be? Don't see the French or the Germans batting for their own sides on that."
So does that make it right? Should we be like children and descend to this level and squabble? Did you hear that bent crook "Il duce" I mean berlusconi heckle the german mep? My god. We brits are renowned for bweing statesmanlike and adroit, deft and capable in our international relations and diplomacy.
See my previous email - we have the experience and capability to lead Europe and drive it forward in a sensible direction. To stay out is to leave what is a very serious situation to drag us all down back to how things were at the first half of the 20th century.
you are right - we do have things to be proud about. But do not be narrow minded about it pr parochial - look outward - we do have strengths - we should use them for good instead of being a bunch of whinging poms stuck in the past. Dont concentrate on the detail of little things that piss you off - concentrate on the bigger picture - the little things will be sorted!
the big things take a country like the uk to lead it through to success.
Nathan_200sx
07-07-2003, 17:25
Originally posted by alexjj
Sorry guys, I disagree with your considered and erudite arguments..
The whole point of the EU is to prevent war accurring again, and to strengthen people's links. Seeing as us Brits are a bit of a Mongrel race of Celts, Saxons, Normans (French..) and other Teutonic races.. as well as all the rest!
yes we are and so are the other nations withing Europe the further south you travel you'll find afrcan and arabic genes thrown into the bundle.
Although this doesnt realy mean squat as we've been to busy fighting each other each country has evolved in its own right, traditions, farming practasis, banking systems, trade links, language etc etc the list is endless.
What is wrong with Europe? Why the parochial attitude? If we are so concerned and jingoistic about foreigners, why do we take it up the bum by letting them all in to feed off us and our DHSS?
There is nothing wrong with Europe, what is wrong is a host of countries with such a high degree of conflictiong intrests being governed from a central source. It is NOT jingoistic to be concernd about how we are to be governed, it is our diplomatic right.
So far Brussels has done nothing but fuel suspicion by it's closed door, shadey dealing way it goes about stuff. And then sacking anyone who tries to spill the beans. I dont want to be ruled by these people! they suck big time. I dont feel that they are competent enough to govern Europe while taking into account the needs of every member state.
Having the famous "little englander" parochial mentality that the rest of the world so detests (particularly the scots, who are unfortunately tarred with the same brush) does not make things better in a considered and thoughtful world.
I dont see this as a reason to jump into the Euro all smiley and happy. We enjoy good trade links with the USA/ASIA/JAPAN and a few more to boot because of the english mentality. If you think we'll loose the stereotypical Image overnight if we bend over and take it up the arse from brussels your mistaken. I dont realy care how they see us, it wont embarass me while on holiday.
I for one think that we are Europeans ourselves - if you disagree with that then you are living in OJ land..
Maybe its just a "feeling" you have... hardly factually based is it?
Yes we are Europeans but simpley by being in that continent.
It's not just a feeling I have, I have a fairly well informed opinion brought about by considering arguments on both sides. some I agree with some I dont.
Im not trying to be confrontational - I just dont like the hand wringing and emotional responses that seem to pass for considered debate on the matter.
Europe is a way forward out of the aggressive "my nation first" attitudes that have characterised all of our nations - not just our own - dont be so arrogant to think we are the centre of the world!
I fail to see why Europe should be run from one place, it's already a corrupt hotch potch of depots, what happens when they get full powers and we loose all our vetoe's.
My nation 1st? well hell yeah and I suppose thats what a lot of people have died for and not just during the first and second world wars. I live here I pay my taxes here and I want them to stay here along with the pensions (if you think ours are bad look to france,germany and spain) along with the other things we've all paid into.
TBH though this thread is about as usefull as a poke in the eye. BB's should have the same rules as at parties, one of which is if you want to spoil things strike up a politcal debate. Im 100% sure your opinions are exactly the same as they were before you read this post as will mine be. The only reason I have quoted this post is I take offence at being labeld jingoistic, illiterate maybee but not that, infact I've just made a new label up myself its called a jingophobe. It shall be employed against all people who ridicule and falsley label people for saying they dont want to enter Europe.
I'm well aware of the bigger picture and I don't like it. I also get pissed of by the little details and if that makes me pedantic or and insular little islander than frankly I don't give a fcuk.
The currency and the economy is only a start down the road of giving up our national identity. Soon it will be foreign policy, defence policy etc. It's bad enough when directly elected prats like Blair fcuk this country about without giving away all our decision making to some unelected prat or worse a total crook like Burlusconi just because it happens to be Italy's turn to be president for 6 months.
some of these are valid points I do agree and conced that
But arent you missing or not hearing any of my points?
how do you expect these situations to change without reforms or true leadership and direction?
What is wrong with us doing that and leading Europe, and addressing these very issues?
See this is why I sometimes dispair of our attitudes - we nearly get there - we identify the problem and then we do a Tim Henman and bottle it..
Hardly a mature attitude to problem solving. Which is something the Yanks (for all the fact that they are reviled by the world and have lots of problems) laugh at us about - and quite rightly.
We bark and bleat on about the problems and then we dont convert the issue to a positive.
Brits are a whining bunch of nearly also rans... What I am talking about is leading the EU fer chrissakes!! We could do anything we wanted and be a true force for good - even for our own country! AND fix the small problems!
We are so Risk averse (ooooo eeeeee you dont wanna be dooin that.... you wanna be doin this - a la Fast Show stylee) that we forget that a Risk is not only a potential problem - but the whole point is it can be a positive as well!
I just dont like to have the UK thought of as the little islander mentality - we will and are being left behind by all parties concerned because of it.
I seriously think that we need to evaluate how we can reform the EU from the outside - I dont think thats possible - so matters will deteriorate.
I also dont see how you guys are offering any constructive debate on the matter.. Tell you what, I wouldnt be surprised if y'all stick up a poll on the matter and then do a round of self congratulatory pats on the back about how much you have proved and added to the matter. ~Which will solve exactly what?
Thats my problem with forums like this, its merely a vox pop of a litany of complaints and moans. Thats why when I say parochial, I dispair a little - there goes another nail in the coffin of true brit courage and fire and innovation, and diplomatic flair.
Tell you what boys, just moan a little and do nothing about it.
Originally posted by alexjj
Thats my problem with forums like this, its merely a vox pop of a litany of complaints and moans. Thats why when I say parochial, I dispair a little - there goes another nail in the coffin of true brit courage and fire and innovation, and diplomatic flair.
Tell you what boys, just moan a little and do nothing about it.
Well if you don't like it .......:wave: :wave:
That was a considered riposte was it not.. Oh touche!
What was the point of that? Im not wound up - just disappointed - case proven. I expected too much I suppose.
Thats the thing about democracy and all that is british - we are all entitled to our views, its just that some of us are so narrow minded or bloody minded it makes those of us who drive and strive for better things for the uk (therefore all of us) have a little wry grin.. winding me up or not (not - this isnt really a proper debating forum is it) it is clear that there is a clear disparity between those who have studied the subjects and those who have had to rely on the clear lack of materiel forthcoming from the government.
Its not your fault guys you dont know much about it - the government itself has not issued any clear information in any usable shape or form - and the European structure is a bit difficult to navigate to inform yourself (I seriously doubt many of you have read directives or used the online facilities of the EU net)
Originally posted by alexjj
That was a considered riposte was it not.. Oh touche!
Well what do you expect from a disciple of Max Power
:| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :|
Its not your fault guys you dont know much about it - the government itself has not issued any clear information in any usable shape or form - and the European structure is a bit difficult to navigate to inform yourself (I seriously doubt many of you have read directives or used the online facilities of the EU net)
So what makes you such an expert then?
The company I own has just expanded into Europe (France to be precise). I can definately see some advantages of joining the Euro. We wouldn't have to prat around with exchange rate and it would make our whole accounting system a lot simpler.
But would we be better off because of it? At this point no. Financially we will not lose out because the majority of our business is conducted in £.
This may change in the long term but in the short to medium term there will be no real advatage to us if we became part of the Euro.
However, there could be serious disadvantages to our business if the day to day control of the British economy passed from those based in the UK, whose main function it is to look after UK interests, to those based in Brussels (or wherever) who have to take the whole of the EMU into account. I don't want interest rate going up (for example) because it suits countries hundreds of miles away from our own but damages our economy.
I accept that you have a different point of view but would like to know what facts you base this on. You say that we haven;t read EU directives but have you? Would you care to quote some?
Your whole tone is patronising to those that do not agree with you. If I didn't know better I'd say you were a high-up in the Liberal Democrats.
Braintree
07-07-2003, 19:58
If we go to the Euro I'm gettin outta here!!
I ain't gonna sit around and watch my country go down the pan just coz some jumped up overpaid fat pri*k in some office in Brussels or wherever says we gotta do what he says.
The Euro is a piece of sh*t, it' ruined the economy of many of it's members.
When I was in Spain last year EVERYONE was complaining how things were so much more expensive, and so many were saying that they can hardly afford to live now!!!
Eat sh*t and die Euro!!
Danielle
07-07-2003, 20:10
Originally posted by Braintree
Eat sh*t and die Euro!!
My thoughts exactly!!! I dont see how they can all of a sudden have all these different economys running on the same currency. Its wrong!!!! The pound is a strong currency we dont need to be throwing that away!!!!
Nathan_200sx
07-07-2003, 20:28
Right as I said before to argue a political point on a forum is a waste of time, no one will convince no one. Your better off posting links to both sides of the story and letting people make up there own minds. Conveying your beliefs is your right but continualy trying to justify them shows a little insecurity with your beleifs.
Not wanting to "convert" you but just clarify my beleifs, may I use an example of a more local nature to let you know how I feel on the matter.
Last year my council tax went up because poor failing labour councils accross the country had gone badley into debt. They sqanderd countless ammounts on crazy plans and mismanagement. so the labour goverment decideds that because my local council has been prudent and wise it will take all the money it gets from council house sales and any that they have saved for long term projects and distribute it ammoung the councils that have (birmingham) run up debts higher than a few combined 3rd world countries.
Now enlarge this picture and make the goverment an unelected body, what do you get? europe, except the whole country now gets shafted not just the councils.
It goes against the grain of labour policy, 1st scotland and wales gain there "independace" there is talk of reagonal councils to "end" centralised goverment yet on the back hand they want an even bigger centralised goverment! I just wish they'd make there ****ing mind up. The fact is they dont have a clue what they or we want. we can work with Europe and develope with Europe and even call ourselfs Eurpope but still govern ourselfs, FFS we aint done to bad over te last thousand years. Plus when you say the world revolves around us then if not now it did once. I wish people would just stop thinking were a little nation that cant contribute anything to the world unless were goverend by a bunch of people who know nothing about us.
Thats my last word on the subject because as I said before we'll keep going in circles. I dont want this to get out of hand either, one's political alliance should have no consiquenses on wether we get on.
Plus do a search there has been a poll before, and guess how that ended up ;):D
Pauly_Boy
07-07-2003, 20:30
I dream of time when England will have its interest rates controlled by some unelected, beurucratic german, who only changes the rates when the german or french economy goes slightly down hill.
Lets face it, anyone remember the ERM, yes... ? what happened to that, went tits up didn't it! At least we could pull out (it was alot less controlling as well), imagen the euro!!
Martin T
07-07-2003, 20:36
Discussing politics on this BB is about as productive as discussing politics at a job interview. I thoroughly agree with what Nathan said about this discussion.
Euro's for Sterling!!!
Good God, whatever next:
right-side driving?
a president instead of a royal family?
big macs for fish 'n chips?
pubs open after six?
Mr. Bush for Mr. Bean
Football for football
Bud for pint
For Chris' sake: keep Britain as it is!!!
Look on the bright side, if we change to Euro's all the asylum seekers won't have any problems passing through the rest of the EU via the channel tunnel and into good old blighty !
Well financially anyway ;)
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