View Full Version : Caught for speeding? Think it's all done fairly (probably not but bear with me)...?
Bloke in the office came and saw me just now and has received a NIP for being a menace to society (ie speeding :rolleyes: ).
This is on one of those end-of-DC-type roads that is rich-pickings for our overworked (:rolleyes: ) Police and is, of course, an absolute bloodbath of an accident blackspot. Not.
Anyway, this bloke says "I've been done for speeding" etc. and I asked him where it was and he replied accordingly.
Then I said "they clocked you at 51mph, didn't they?".
This bloke was at first impressed by my accuracy and, after a few seconds, he asked me how I knew.
The answer? They do EVERYONE in that area for 51 - regardless!
He thought I was making it up so I emailed a friend and asked him to 'guess the speed'.
His answer? 51mph.
NOW tell me that this is all above board :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Hmm suss, you'd have a hard time proving anything though I reckon.
Dave
kirkster
02-07-2003, 10:18
Check out this website for info on how to attempt to get out of the NIP....
Your mate in the office might like to read this.....
http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/frames.htm
Kirky.
Simple to resolve - you have the right to see any photo's or images before you sign the NIP...
Go see them!
Oh, and if the NIP didn't arrive special or recorded delivery - THROW IT AWAY.
"What NIP, Your Honour??? I assume the prosecution can supply evidence of delivery???"
:D :D :D
kirkster
02-07-2003, 12:18
will that stand in a court of law though????
PhilMorrison
02-07-2003, 12:24
Originally posted by JackaL
Oh, and if the NIP didn't arrive special or recorded delivery - THROW IT AWAY.
"What NIP, Your Honour??? I assume the prosecution can supply evidence of delivery???"
:D :D :D
Doesn't work.
Originally posted by Phatty
Doesn't work.
If there is no proof they sent it, how can they possibly convince a court you received it??? :confused:
The only way to get a delivery receipt is either special or recorded delivery - both of which require a receipt signature, and there's no escaping it. The Police are just trying to save money by posting them 1st class and hoping 99.9% of people don't question it.
They have my utmost admiration :thumbs:
And I hope that you are all in agreement :wack: :wack: :wack:
PhilMorrison
02-07-2003, 12:38
I went to court, and was told whether I recieved it or not was irrelivant, the fact that they had proof that it was sent was enough to convict me....
Originally posted by Phatty
I went to court, and was told whether I recieved it or not was irrelivant, the fact that they had proof that it was sent was enough to convict me....
And what was there proof that it was sent?
Originally posted by JB
And what was there proof that it was sent?
That's what I'm getting at - I thought that proof of delivery was only given with recorded/special delivery???
These days it seems that unquestionable proof comes in the form of a lazy copper saying "Yeah, I reckon I sent it" :rolleyes: :mad: Whatever happened to iinnocent until PROVEN guilty???
Still, you could always blame it one someone else... ;) ;) ;)
PhilMorrison
02-07-2003, 12:50
there was proof that it was sent, in the form of a copper sig, saying " I sent this by 1st class post" there was no proof that I recieved it, as it was only sent by 1st, not recorded or registered post.
Originally posted by Phatty
there was proof that it was sent, in the form of a copper sig, saying " I sent this by 1st class post" there was no proof that I recieved it, as it was only sent by 1st, not recorded or registered post.
:| :|
It could get lost in the post regardless of whether mr copper swears he sent it 1st class or not.....
Originally posted by Phatty
there was proof that it was sent, in the form of a copper sig, saying " I sent this by 1st class post" there was no proof that I recieved it, as it was only sent by 1st, not recorded or registered post.
I'm sorry, but there has to be 'reasonable doubt' there that the copper is either
a) Lying
b) Forgot to post it
c) Threw it in the bin by mistake
d) Lost it
e) Is a useless waste of space, fit only to make dogfood out of.
f) The postie dropped it on the way to his van
That is not 'proof', that's a guess!
What was he done by ??
Gatso, White camera van or Officer with gun ??? ........ if it was the later he would have got the NIP there and then ? ....... Front facing white van .... and they will prob have a picture of his face so will do him anyway.
..... and if it was a gatso ................... how the hell did he not see the road markings travelling along a perfectly safe DC ... he clearly wasnot watching the road .... so deserves the fine. !
Originally posted by Johnny
....... Front facing white van .... and they will prob have a picture of his face so will do him anyway.
Give it 6 months and we'll all be driving round with false beards, sunglasses and big hats.
Now THAT'S safe!:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:
Originally posted by Johnny
What was he done by ??
Gatso, White camera van or Officer with gun ??? ........ if it was the later he would have got the NIP there and then ? ....... Front facing white van .... and they will prob have a picture of his face so will do him anyway.
..... and if it was a gatso ................... how the hell did he not see the road markings travelling along a perfectly safe DC ... he clearly wasnot watching the road .... so deserves the fine. !
I thought the point was that he got done for 51mph in a place where everyone gets done for doing 51. In which case the implication is that he may not have been speeding at all! If that is the case, I'm not sure he does deserve the fine ;)
Originally posted by Ripper
Give it 6 months and we'll all be driving round with false beards, sunglasses and big hats.
Now THAT'S safe!:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:
:D :D :D Never thought of that ..... I have already removed my front number plate and carry round a broken one in the boot complete with a hub cap ... as the offending artical that "Just took my number plate off just round that last bend officer " ....... The fine is cheaper than 3 points+£60
Must pop to the fancy dress shop this evening for a fake beard :D
kevin_s14
02-07-2003, 13:32
wheres mr turbo pete.............................
dobergoose
02-07-2003, 13:41
Originally posted by Ripper
Give it 6 months and we'll all be driving round with false beards, sunglasses and big hats.
Now THAT'S safe!:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:
What? You mean you guys don't already do this? Am I the only one?
Ahhh .... so that is a picture of you in your avitar :D
Originally posted by dobergoose
What? You mean you guys don't already do this? Am I the only one?
I altrernate my disguises between the Tony Blair mask, the Jabba th... I mean John Prescott mask, and the Redne... I mean George W Bush mask :)
I drive along with the sun viser down most of the time.
And the mandatory sunglasses, of course.
The big question is: Does Cherie Blair wear a mask or is that real? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Originally posted by Ripper
The big question is: Does Cherie Blair wear a mask or is that real? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
That HAS to be real ........ no one with that much money would chose to look that ugly
Originally posted by Johnny
That HAS to be real ........ no one with that much money would chose to look that ugly
It HAS to be false........ no one with that much money would chose to look that ugly :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
egomeister
02-07-2003, 14:40
Originally posted by JackaL
Simple to resolve - you have the right to see any photo's or images before you sign the NIP...
Go see them!
Oh, and if the NIP didn't arrive special or recorded delivery - THROW IT AWAY.
"What NIP, Your Honour??? I assume the prosecution can supply evidence of delivery???"
:D :D :D
No no no! This is very bad advice! Somehow, posting it (first class, I think) is sufficient in the eyes of the law. Yeah it sucks, but thats how it is!
turbo pete
02-07-2003, 15:16
i'm here. Just busy. Reading with interest though
kirkster
02-07-2003, 15:24
What is your opinion on this pete??
Seeing as I think I'm about to get a nice NIP from the filth soon.
So far as I can tell, the Police have every escape route pretty well blocked... The only way out is the one they give you - but you can use this against them :)
Blame it one someone else... Someone who has recently moved... And where the new occupants of the house have no way of contacting the previous occupant.
The Police send the NIP to the address you specified (you have now fulfilled you legal obligation). The new address either ignores it or says they have no idea - the ball is in the Police's court now.
It is now up to the POLICE to trace the person you named. You've given them a valid name and address, if they come back to you just say 'there it is, now fcuk off'.
The Police cannot do you for lying - they have no proof (make sure the named person moved from the address AFTER the offence) It is now up to them to trace the driver - and for the sake of £60 I can guarantee they will forget all about it :)
Err.... Obviously you can only do this if it's what actually happened.....
Originally posted by JackaL
Simple to resolve - you have the right to see any photo's or images before you sign the NIP...
No, you only have the right to see evidence against you if you choose to take the court option ie you are disputing the charge. The £60 and 3 points is an offer to you if you wish to admit guilt. They may show you the evidence if you ask for it, but they are not obliged to disclose until you decide to go in front of the magistrate. :(
And unfortunately, proof of posting is sufficient to consider the NIP served in the eyes of the law. :( :(
At the moment, I think I'd gp along the route of not signing the NIP. The first unsigned NIP's seem to be coming up to the 6 month limit for CPS to take action, so I'm watching closely to see whether the cases are just dropped, or we see a precedent set on whether unsigned NIP's are admissable evidence or not.
kevin_s14
02-07-2003, 19:35
Originally posted by Robbie
At the moment, I think I'd gp along the route of not signing the NIP. The first unsigned NIP's seem to be coming up to the 6 month limit for CPS to take action, so I'm watching closely to see whether the cases are just dropped, or we see a precedent set on whether unsigned NIP's are admissable evidence or not.
didnt somebody in wales get away with this when they went to court and didnt sign it?? you have to give the driver info but you dont have to sign it, is that right??
I'm sorry, but on practically everything you ever send away for it ALWAYS says
Proof of posting is NOT proof of delivery :o
I thought that was the whole reason for using registered post???
They are probably trying this just because Royal Mail are so fooking sh!te that 14 days could easily elapse before a first class letter arrives:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Throw it in the bin and tell the beak to go fun himself
:p :wack: :p :wack: :thumbs:
Either that or say that you put a first class stamp on it to send it back and they obviously haven't recieved it:p :p :p
turbo pete
03-07-2003, 09:06
Robbie is correct. if you want to see the evidence the best thing to do is to say that there was more than one driver and you can't remember who was driving. You can request the photo to help you ascertain who was driving if you want.
In this case they would normally provide you with a copy of the photo. And normally you wouldn't be able to tell if hitler, santa or a dwarf was in the car. Cos the photos are from behind and they are crud.
So I don't know why everyone doesn't just give fictitious names on their NIP's. How would they ever prove otherwise. It is still innocent until proven guilty in this country.
What do you think of the new drive by tories to remove speed bumps, speed cameras and raise the limit on motorways to 80mph.
They have totally missed the point. Speed cameras when plpaced effectively do an excellent job. Take Langsett. One of the worst accident blackspots in England. It is a small village on a mian road with bad visibility if you are turniong out of property onto the main road. Trucks would come up the main road at 60-70mph and motorists looking left and right would see the road was clear pull out and then suddenly have to contend with a truck doing over the 40mph limit.
Speed cameras are good when placed properly and not used as a cash milking tool.
ANd speed bumps work too. I wisj they would put humps in my road. I have the same problem with kids doing 80mph up the main road where i live. It is 30mph limit. Bumps would be cheaper and more effective than a camera.
And 80mph. Where did they get this figure from? Why not lift the limit completely and equip all police with video. Then drivers could be prosecuted crap driving rather than speeding.
Middle lane hogs, driving with fogs on in daylight, cutting people up, non use of indicators etc....Nearly every offence could be dealt with under the guise of inconsiderate driving.
Grrrr I'm on one this morning.
Originally posted by Robbie
No, you only have the right to see evidence against you if you choose to take the court option ie you are disputing the charge. The £60 and 3 points is an offer to you if you wish to admit guilt. They may show you the evidence if you ask for it, but they are not obliged to disclose until you decide to go in front of the magistrate. :( Read the 'Fighting That Ticket' section in the web site mentioned above. It gives some interesting advice regarding evidence.
mambastu
03-07-2003, 10:37
Originally posted by turbo pete
They have totally missed the point. Speed cameras when plpaced effectively do an excellent job. Take Langsett. One of the worst accident blackspots in England. It is a small village on a mian road with bad visibility if you are turniong out of property onto the main road. Trucks would come up the main road at 60-70mph and motorists looking left and right would see the road was clear pull out and then suddenly have to contend with a truck doing over the 40mph limit.
Speed cameras are good when placed properly and not used as a cash milking tool.
Valid points Pete but unfortunately they also tend to use speed cameras due to cost reasons.
Theres a staggered cross roads in a 60 limit near where I live. Theres around half a mile of clear visibilty either way up and down the road however there are a lot of accidents caused by elderly people pulling out of the junctions, my sister fell prey to one of these semi-blind twats only recently, luckily she's almost recovered, the car has not.
The council has decided to put speed cameras in to cut down on the accidents. This means the whole of this 3 to 4 mile long wide and fairly straight (safe) main road will become a 30 or 40 limit like a lot of other countryside roads in Sussex.
The reason why they will use speed cameras is this.
A roundabout will cost £500,000 to put in whereas speed cameras cost £25,000 each.
However accidents will still occur in this area even at 30 or 40 mph because the people causing the accidents are physically impaired (eyesite/reactions) and incapable of driving safely.
Originally posted by turbo pete
So I don't know why everyone doesn't just give fictitious names on their NIP's. How would they ever prove otherwise. It is still innocent until proven guilty in this country.
Perhaps they do, but just can't admit to it (for legal reasons) on an open forum ;)
Technically, if you were to supply a false name with a valid address you could get away with it. Supplying an invalid address will not work as the Police will send you a nasty letter saying there is no such address and asking if you would like to 'reconsider'.
Once you have supplied a name and address you have fulfilled your legal obligation, and it is the responsibility of the Police to track down the person specified... If they have moved house, what can you do if you no longer keep in touch with them??? ;)
The Police WILL NOT spend time (and therefor money) tracking down someone who has moved for the sake of a £60 fine, it just goes in the 10% pile of failed prosecutions, and they get on with prosecuting those stupid enough to own up!
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