Saab intercoolers (uk200sx..)

[Chimp]

I was skimming through the old board looking for amal valve stuff, when I saw you had a saab intercooler fitted. I was wondering if you had noticed any significant gains in performance from it? I havent actually seen the intercooler, does it have plastic end caps? AND.... (not finished yet!) what arrangement of Hoses and bits and bobs did you need? Anf finally does it hold decent boost?! by my reckoning the whole lot could be done for about 140 quid.. Is it a bargain or a wasted excercise?

Ta muchly


------------------
Dan
Red S13
http://animatedgif.net/animals/otheranimals/ape_e0.gif

[Nathan_200sx]

On pauls behalf I can say it wasnt a wasted excercise, I'll leave him to give the finer details But he did tell me it seemed to run better and he's pushing 18psi no probs.

[Nathan_200sx]

Oh, and he's calling himself paul_s13 on this board he's going through ome kind of identity crisis http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Chimp]

ahhh..

[Paul_S13]

I changed the name because when I first found the forum I never realised than I would meet anyone face to face, so its easier to introduce yourself as paul_s13 that uk200sx, but anyway I gained about 20bhp and the turbo now spins up earlier, the list of parts are as follows

1 90 degree elbow 53mm to 60mm internal diameter

1 90 degree elbow 60mm i.d.

1 100mm turbo hose 60mm i.d.

1 aluminium hose joiner 60mm outer diameter

Some stainless pipe borrowed (perminantly) from work!

And sh1tloads of hi-torque hose clips.

and it all looks like this.

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1503982&a=11351942&p=49090825

Its messy at the moment but I will get round to sorting it out. The main thing to remember is that the are uprated intercoolers for Saabs as well, the uprated jobbie for a 9000 turbo is a wopper! and it only cost £500. I say only but its £200 cheaper that SE or Norris!


------------------
Black S13
Blitz filter
Wombat exhaust

[This message has been edited by paul_s13 (edited 24-05-2001).]

[Chimp]

Excellent. Just what I needed to see, ta muchly

------------------
http://animatedgif.net/animals/otheranimals/monkey_count_e0.gif

[Brucemc]

Hi Paul, I have aquired a Saab ic but it seems to be slightly different to the one in your pic. Was yours modified to fit?
http://www.kylareservice.se/bilder/i0032.jpg
Have you noticed any downside to the location you have used (ie does it pick up heat from the radiator), but it does seem the most sensible location

Thanks

Bruce

[Paul_S13]

Hi Brucemc,

There are two types of intercoolers for the Saab, the one you have that has the inlet and outlet facing the engine, and the one I have got that has the inlet/outlet pointing up at 45 degrees. The intercooler doesn't pick up any heat from the rad. The only thing I can think of that would cause you problems would be the height of the IC, it looks taller than mine.

------------------
Black S13
Practising quick starts
and messing them up

[le1gh]

Why have you removed the plastic cowling from the radiator? Has this affected the car in any way?

[Paul_S13]

I had to remove the fan shroud because there isn't enough room for it with the rad relocated, and no i've had no cooling problems

------------------
Black S13
Practising quick starts
and messing them up

[Chimp]

how is the radiator mounted paul? I can see that it doesnt appear to be via longer brackets on the front slam panel, but i cant remmeber what fixings they have underneath. Same goes for the intercooler really, how is it all stuck there?!? did you fill them with helium and they just kinda float? http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/wink.gif

[Chimp]

and clean that fan!

[Paul_S13]

The fan is soon to be ditched, but I like it dirty!

People must stop asking me about how to mount the rad and intercooler because at the moment there held in place by the pipes, they hardly move, I will get round to making brackets for it, but this weekend I'm changing the differential on my mates bimmer(my old car)

Paul_s13 the master bodger, and expert cowboy http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Jeffers_S13]

Nice job Paul.I wanna do that at some point.

I got a dumb question, I noticed these small K&N filters on a few cars now.You got one in the hoses between the Camshaft covers, oil breathers (?) What does the filter do there ?.

On the subject of the SAAB install I was sent a link a while back on the old board for some swedish bloke who has done it aswell, complete with brackets...

Might be of interest to someone.
http://www.ticco.com/nissan.html

James

[Paul_S13]

The former owner of my car fitted the K&N breathers on the reccomendation of Simon Norris (he was a good friend of Simons), I belive the just reduce crankcase pressure and reduce emissions by not letting piston blow-by back into the inlet system, plus they look pretty good too.

[Brucemc]

Thanks for that, BTW does your 200 have ac, if so does it clear the piping, or was there modifications there ?
Also what did you do with the carbon canister(I assume uk ones would have one)

Thanks
Bruce

180sx Jap Spec
SR20det 5Spd
3"exhaust w Sheepdog SS Muffler, K&N Filter Turbosmart bleed valve, Blitz Access ECU, VS Commodore Fuel Pump, Blah Blah
Soon to include Saab IC

[This message has been edited by Brucemc (edited 01-06-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Brucemc (edited 01-06-2001).]

[Jez]

Paul,

Any idea where you can get these K&N breather filters from? I know you didn't fit them - just wondered if you had receipt or whatever

Cheers
Jez

------------------
http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~jhorsham/200sx.jpg

Dirty S13 with a few mods
200bhp ish with suspension and brake mods for trackdays

[Paul_S13]

Right, first Brucemc my car did have AC but it didn't work and I couldn'e be arsed to £350 to fix it, so I removed it.

Jez, any K&N stockist should be able to get the breather filters, I know Pipercross also do breather filters as well

[Chimp]

What model saab are these off again? anyone know any cheapo saab breakers?

Im gonna do it this weekend, i have put it off long enough. Born to boost, innit.

http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/smile.gif

[Clong]

The unit is off the later version of the (94 onwards?) 9000 2.3 turbo. Just make sure that the inlet/outlet come out to the side at 45 degree's. It's a huge cooler, nearly the same size as the 200sx rad, the uprated one being a lot thicker. My only concern is the plastic sides, which could be a weak spot??

I got mine from a saab breaker in Hatfield called Two Stroke, ask for Micky or Moon(?), cost 100 quid inc next day delivery. Demon tweeks do the elbows for 21 quid each, and the stainless tubing for 20 quid from a metal suppliers, you should be able to use straight 51mm & 60 mm outside dia tube, without having to get it bent into fancy shapes. If you got a dump valve you will need some more tubing and stuff but thats all there is. The brackets can be made up from all the metal work extracted from the original airbox (assuming you retro fitted a cone filter).

I thought you car was in bits anyway, having a bottom end rebuild or something???

[Chimp]

being in "bits" doesnt seem to do it justice http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif

but yep, rebuilding an engine ready to plop in with chrome allover the place, should look pretty. I want the cooler so I can at least say I have acheived some performance from all the hassle. Putting it back on the road as it used to be would do my head in. http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/smile.gif

its a saab '94+ 2.3t or something innit? I dont know the first thing about saabs. only that they look poo.

if paul is running 18psi and its holding then it should be good enough. Paul - (if yer watching) are you on a T25 or hybrid?

[This message has been edited by Chimp (edited 04-07-2001).]

[Clong]

I think there's Neo brothers in Enfield that do Saab bits, but i don't know. On the old disscusion board, a similar thread about Saab coolers suggest they were cheaper, but can't access the old board (whats going on there, Mr Moderator? There's a lot of info there which would be a shame to lose).

Let me know how you get on chimp, i've got the cooler myself and will be fitting it over the next couple of months. I would be interested in what power gain you get from it.

[Chimp]

will do http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/smile.gif - I think paul said on the old board it was around a 30hp gain just from fitting it.

[Clong]

Two Stroke to Turbo Saab no is 01707 256100 and yep 94+ 9000 2.3 turbo is what you are after.

[dave_s13]

http://www.intapart.com/saab.htm

might be worth a try..

[Paul_S13]

Hi lads,

I got my intercooler from Neo Brothers in Enfield/Maple Cross for £47, it gives the same amount of power as the wing mount ND IC but cost a ****e sight less, you can see the results on the rolling road printout I posted the other day.

235bhp @ 5600rpm
230 flbs

[Chimp]

damnit!! I cant find a number for them on yell.com http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/frown.gif

its a nice price http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/smile.gif

[Clong]

What other mods are you running with that cooler, Paul_s13??

[Clong]

Originally posted by Clong:
What other mods are you running with that cooler, Paul_s13??



------------------
1990 Blue S13
Mongoose 'zorst
K&N, ND Boost upgade.

[Clong]

Sorry about that, not too sure what happened there!!!

------------------
1990 Blue S13
Mongoose 'zorst
K&N, ND Boost upgade.

[Mannie]

http://www.neobrothers.co.uk/

ADDRESS:
UNIT 23
MONRO IND EST
STATION APPROACH
WALTHAM CROSS
HERTFORDSHIRE
EN8 7LX
U.K

TELEPHONE: 01992-719280
FAX: 01992-760471

Got this from the best search engine on the Internet (In my opinion) www.mirago.co.uk (http://www.mirago.co.uk)

[Chimp]

cheers, Just ordered one, 30 quid more expensive now though!

[Paul_S13]

Right my current engine spec is as follows.....

Jap import engine
Turbo Technics T25 hybrid running 18psi
ND fuel pressure regulator
Escort Cossie fuel pump
Saab IC
SE stage 2 chip
HKS Hiper Muffler
Blitz induction kit
ND Actuator
K&N crankcase breather kit
Baily EVO dump valve
Cold rated NGK Platinum plugs

and Nismo gear knob (adds 50Bhp !! http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif )

[This message has been edited by paul_s13 (edited 04-07-2001).]

[Funb0b]

Paul_s13

Did you have the fuel pressure regulator fitted at the same time as the fuel pump?

Has the regulator made any differance.

Barry

[Paul_S13]

Barry,

I originally fitted the regulator because my car was underfueling, Power Engineering reccomended a fuel regulator or a fifth injector setup. I couldn't afford the extra injector stuff so I brought the boost valve, I had to increase the fuel pressure quite alot (I had to set it at 3.4 bar) so the car would run at 6% CO at high revs at full load.

The main problem with doing that was that my car couldn't run on the lambda sensor at idle so the CO level was an MOT failing 5% and it ran rich at cruising speeds as well.

After I fitted the cossie pump I set the fuel pressure to just over standard, and now the car idles at .75% and fuels to 7% at top whack.

------------------
Black S13
235Bhp @ 5600rpm
Saab intercooler
Big ass HKS 'zorst
http://www.contrabandent.com/pez/otn/puke/repuke.gif


[This message has been edited by paul_s13 (edited 04-07-2001).]

[Funb0b]

Paul_s13

Did you have the regulator fitted before the pump if so was there much improvement

Barry

[Paul_S13]

As I said before the regulator was only fitted to correct the underfueling I gained about 5bhp and 10flbs, it was fitted before the cossie pump. I didn't notice the difference, but I knew I wasn't going to melt anything.

One thing I will say is that its allows fine tuning on the rolling road, if your car is overfueling/underfueling then you can correct it on the rollers.

[SteveSadler]

So Paul,

seeing as I have the uprated fuel pump, are you saying it might be worth fitting a fuel pressure regulator?

The only reason I thinking to do what you've done is becuase the boys at Power Eng said that judjing by the look of the graph I was running a little too rich at high revs. I supposed that aint a bad thing, but then again that could explain my loss in power, when I should expect 235bhp based on the mods I've fitted. What do the rest of u guys think. Any of you running a pressure regulator on your engine?



------------------
Bayside Blue S13.
Janspeed&D-Cat Pipe/Pace FMIC/BMC F1 Filter/Standard T25 @ 15psi
15.4 @ 98mph - North Wield Air Strip
Flywheel Figure 213bhp/209Ib ft @ 5375RPM
Power at the Wheels 166bhp
(as of 15/6/01 @ Power & Engineering)

[andyf]

Originally posted by paul_s13:
I had to increase the fuel pressure quite alot (I had to set it at 3.4 bar) so the car would run at 6% CO at high revs at full load.

The main problem with doing that was that my car couldn't run on the lambda sensor at idle so the CO level was an MOT failing 5% and it ran rich at cruising speeds as well.



Paul, did running rich at cruising speeds enable you to spit flames at all? I still don't know exactly how it is caused 'naturally' as it were. I've seen a fairly artificial way on an RS Turbo from around here - he wired up a scalextric motor to poke through his exhaust and had a dash-mounted switch - when he wanted to spit flames, he turned on the motor which produced an almost constant stream of sparks. Revs up and boom.
I get the odd BANG when driving around sometimes but I don't think it's spitting much out the back unfortunately. Is flame spitting just a result of a highly tuned car or is it associated with overfuelling and aftermarket exhausts? http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/smile.gif


------------------
Graphite Grey S13
HKS Hiper Muffler / KYB Shocks / ChassisDyamics Springs - w00t, what a drift!

[Paul_S13]

My car is the flame monster (Nathan will back me up on that http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif ) It really pops a flame when I hammer though the gears http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif

The only problem is that my old exhaust has melted my bumper http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/frown.gif

[This message has been edited by paul_s13 (edited 05-07-2001).]

[Paul_S13]

Flames out the exhaust are caused by unburnt fuel igniting in the hot exhaust pipe, it tends to happen more at high revs or just after you have been hammering it, as you pull up to a juction you can hear the exhaust pop and fart out flames. http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
Black S13
235Bhp @ 5600rpm
Saab intercooler
Big ass HKS 'zorst
http://www.contrabandent.com/pez/otn/puke/repuke.gif

[Dave_the_B]

Paul_13
Sorry to harp on but I see you have a cossie fuel pump, How much was it and was it easy to fit?

Cheers mate

Dave

------------------
Grey S13
T28
Evo 6 IC
266bhp @ 16psi

[Paul_S13]

No problem Dave,

I got the pump from M & I Parts and it cost £60 - 70 I can't remember. Its out of a Escort Cossie, it was the only cossie to have an in-tank pump, Mervyn at Power Engineering said there good for 290bhp and as their Ford specialist I trust his advice. He also didn't reccomend using a external cossie pump, due to saftey reasons.

It was a straight swap for the original, although the ford pump is actually smaller, and its a noisey little ba5tard, but not as loud as the group A jobbies.

www.mifordparts.co.uk (http://www.mifordparts.co.uk)


------------------
Black S13
235Bhp @ 5600rpm
Saab intercooler
Big ass HKS 'zorst
http://www.contrabandent.com/pez/otn/puke/repuke.gif

[This message has been edited by paul_s13 (edited 05-07-2001).]

[Chimp]

does it stop picking fuel up at 1/4 tank or does the pipe reach down far enough?>

[Paul_S13]

It starts getting funky when it guage is just over the red mark, but I've just been to ford and brought a small filter that will extend the reach of the pump, it only cost £3.70

------------------
Black S13
235Bhp @ 5600rpm
Saab intercooler
Big ass HKS 'zorst
http://www.contrabandent.com/pez/otn/puke/repuke.gif

[Clong]

Okay, this is a techie question for paul_s13, looking at the pic of your intercooler install, what is the diameter of the stainless steel tube that the dump valve fits into?. It looks like you have used the original tubing from the inlet manifold and cut it up to fit, with the manifold dia at 70mm. does the tubing reduce down to 60mm?

Also there is a small pipe running from that plastic moulded section of the intercooler piping, into a t-piece one part going back into the inlet manifold, the other going into a valve/switch type thing, what did you do with this?, just plumb it into the new tubing or what?

If this doesn't make any sense, my apologies, i am having a very monday-ish day today.

------------------
1990 Blue S13
Mongoose 'zorst
K&N, ND Boost upgrade.

http://www.ihs4ever.com/~cwm/otn/violent/itschy.gif

[This message has been edited by Clong (edited 09-07-2001).]

[Paul_S13]

Hi clong,

The tube that the dump valve fits onto is part of the fitting kit that came with the dump valve.

Also I will email you some pictures to show you what I did with the small pipe that attached to the standard intercooler piping, so don't be alarmed if you recive a large email. I will send the email tonight, so if you want it sent to another email address email me to let me know.

------------------
Black S13
235Bhp @ 5600rpm
Saab intercooler
Big ass HKS 'zorst
http://www.contrabandent.com/pez/otn/puke/repuke.gif

[Clong]

Send it off to this one carl.long@raymarine.com

My home one is goosed at the mo. I will prolly give you ring about the calipers later, anyways dude.

------------------
1990 Blue S13
Mongoose 'zorst
K&N, ND Boost upgrade.

http://www.ihs4ever.com/~cwm/otn/violent/itschy.gif

[Chimp]

tell me tell me what you did with the pipe!! I was wondering yesterday!!

It goes from the standard bliack plastic thing to the inlet side somewhere doesnt it, I didnt really look, I just thought WTF am i going to do with that.

[Paul_S13]

Chimp, I will email it to you as well then http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
Black S13
235Bhp @ 5600rpm
Saab intercooler
Big ass HKS 'zorst
http://www.contrabandent.com/pez/otn/puke/repuke.gif

[Jezz_S13]

Can you email it to me too Paul?

PPppwweeeeaaaassseeeeEEE!!!



------------------
Please take nothing I say literally; even I don't believe it.

[Paul_S13]

its furkin lucky my internet is free ain't it http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
Black S13
235Bhp @ 5600rpm
Saab intercooler
Big ass HKS 'zorst
http://www.contrabandent.com/pez/otn/puke/repuke.gif

[Jezz_S13]

What a star!! http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif:.



------------------
Please take nothing I say literally; even I don't believe it.

[Paul_S13]

Jezz its on its way NOW! http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Paul_S13]

And chimp, prepare for incoming fire http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
Black S13
235Bhp @ 5600rpm
Saab intercooler
Big ass HKS 'zorst
http://www.contrabandent.com/pez/otn/puke/repuke.gif

[Clong]

I've only gone an done it 'aint i http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif

Superb mod, accelaration in 1st & 2nd is bloody scary when i first tried it, lots of fun now i've got used to it, not sure of the power increase but bearing in mind the size of the cooler it has got to be in the same region as the ND FMIC, if not more. It's weird putting your hand on the turbo side of the cooler and then the other to see the temparature difference. There doesn't seem to be any loss of boost at the high rev range before either, which makes things faster obvoiusly.

I noticed on a wish list thread that paul_s13 was going to fit the upgraded saab cooler at some point, if you are out there dude let know what info you have got so far. When i have the spare readies its something i may well consider.

Yee Haa, time to go impreza baiting http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
1990 Blue S13
Mongoose 'zorst
K&N, ND Boost upgrade, Saab FMIC.`

[Paul_S13]

Good hit m8,

I am now thinking about fitting a Cossie 4x4 intercooler these are good for 300+bhp and I can get one for about £80, I will keep you posted

------------------
Black S13
235Bhp @ 5600rpm
Saab intercooler
Big ass HKS 'zorst with 3 inches of ground clearance

http://www.mpz.co.uk/cwm/contrib/blackeye/2gunsfiring_v1.gif

[Clong]

Thanks for all your help, dude, you have paved the way for millions (well chimp, jez and myself). Weren't you looking at welding two saab cores together aswell? Sheesh dude, you change your mind quicker than 'er indoors!!

Thanks again for your e-mails and stuff.



------------------
1990 Blue S13
Mongoose 'zorst
K&N, ND Boost upgrade, Saab FMIC.`

[Jez]

im still waiting for f*cking hoses from Demon Tweeks.

If anyone else is thinking of getting samco hoses - get them in the std. colour!

[Paul_S13]

Yeah I got 'em next day.

------------------
Black S13
235Bhp @ 5600rpm
Saab intercooler
Big ass HKS 'zorst with 3 inches of ground clearance

http://www.mpz.co.uk/cwm/contrib/blackeye/2gunsfiring_v1.gif