View Full Version : Carb Cycling/Anabolic diet
I'm trying to lower bf% before trying to make a clean bulk. I want to try carb cycling for 12 weeks before bulking. The plan is to be 3500cal deficit per week to lose 1lb of bf each week. I have spent the last 12 days without carbs which forces your body to use fat for energy.
I was then going to alternate 2 days with carbs, 5 days without, but doing some more reading there is loads of different ways of doing this. Some say 3 days carbs, 3 days without and others say high,med,no,high,med,no :confused:
Probably strange to ask this here but i know there is a good lot on here that goes to the gym regularly, and might be able to shed some light on the most researched, tried and tested method of carb cycling or point me in the right direction :thumbs:
mo_yassin
01-06-2010, 17:44
I just do 6 low carb days and 1 high carb day on a cut. Proper carb cycling as you've suggested above is way too much effort for me! Just have to experiment with different things really and see what works for you, as what works for one person might not work for another.
yeah.. i agree .. dont be denying yourself on a very regular basis.. more harm than good! just cut out sugar/biscuits//puddings/choc/sweets and excercise 50% more.. you will see a change within 10 days!
I have been doing the Anabolic diet. 5 Days no carbs then 2 day carb up. Lost best part of 2 stone doing this. 3500 cal deficit will be EASY as your appetite takes a knock. You will have to fore yourself to eat. Omlette for brekkie, chicken for lunch and a good old steak with broccoli and spinach for dinner :-)
I've been doing basic carb cycling and it seems to work well for me. I'm not strict compared to most. For June I think I'm gonna hit it hard for that last fat loss before my holiday in July.
What foods do you eat on a no carb diet?
what foods do you eat on a no carb diet?
meat
I don't cut carbs alltogether, just keep it under 100g on very low carb days, and 150g on low carb days.
I decided to break my cycle into High, low ,no ,high ,low ,low ,no, following some principles of not having high carb days or no carb days back to back.
I worked out my maintenance to be 2350cal, so on high days 45% (210g) is made of carbs, low days is 30% (140g) and no carb days for me is 0g carbs except green veg, spread between six meals, averaging 1850 cal per day leaving 3500 cal weekly deficit. Protein is 1.5g per lb of bw each day. Fat is 40% (83g) on no days, 25% (52g) on low days and 15%(30g) on high days.
Had an assessment done two weeks ago before i started, getting another one done today before starting to cycle, and will check progress every four weeks.
What bf% should someone aim for before starting to bulk:confused:
Where did you get your assessment done mate? Its something I'd like to do. Your plan looks pretty good. I may copy it (although adjust to my own body obviously).
s13silvia
02-06-2010, 20:20
Now I could be completely wrong - but I think some people take these things to the extreme and go into things far too deeply. Advice given on diets varies per body there are no set rules. Hence why some people who eat 2 meals a day weigh 25 stone plus, and some people eat 5 meals a day and maintain/lose weight only. There's no gaurantees when it comes to these 'plans' etc. and one person may make a clean bulk, the other may not. All this 'x amount per x days with x percent estimated drop/raise' is hocum and nobody can state one way or the other what will work best for you just give general tips. Not trying to be sarcy matey just saying don't get your head wound around figures and facts too much.
It's much like faddy supplements, X amount of people on a forum can come up with 100 'scientifically proved' reasons why they work, but in 99% of cases they acctually do jack.
I would make my philosophy eat 7-10 HEALTHY and nutritious meals a day along with a good workout scheme which works FOR YOU (some people it's 3 days, some people 5-6, some light weights works better, some heavy). That way you really shouldn't go wrong. The hard bit is cooking it all and then forcing the food down your throat. That's the bit I find near impossible. Your body needs a balanced diet to function correctly, if you go cutting out this or that on purpose for days your body wont perform as well as it should :)
Just my 2p but good luck whichever way you choose to do things.
In my case, I literally have to count carbs by the gram to get any results. I've been eating healthy and training hard for quite a few years, but due to my endomorphic qualities I always struggled to get proper definition.
Since counting carbs (not calories) and being strict with my protein intake, my bodyfat is lower than its ever been. My definition is through the roof (including stomach), and my vascularity is higher than its ever been. I haven't touched cardio for months, yet my bodyfat is much lower than when I used to do cardio on a regular basis! In my case, just eating healthy and training hard isn't enough. Some people are blessed with genetics. Alas I am not :(
[QUOTE=AL_s13;5338293]meat[/QUOTE
Thats me out then :annoyed:
[QUOTE=AL_s13;5338293]meat[/QUOTE
Thats me out then :annoyed:
or mushrooms, i think.
[QUOTE=clarity;5339820]
or mushrooms, i think.
:hurl: Why are carb free food gross :cry:
[QUOTE=Marc;5340170]
:hurl: Why are carb free food gross :cry:
water? :wack:
In my case, I literally have to count carbs by the gram to get any results. I've been eating healthy and training hard for quite a few years, but due to my endomorphic qualities I always struggled to get proper definition.
Since counting carbs (not calories) and being strict with my protein intake, my bodyfat is lower than its ever been. My definition is through the roof (including stomach), and my vascularity is higher than its ever been. I haven't touched cardio for months, yet my bodyfat is much lower than when I used to do cardio on a regular basis! In my case, just eating healthy and training hard isn't enough. Some people are blessed with genetics. Alas I am not :(
you still need to do cardio for fitness.. i look fit and toned but im not fit in a cardio sense.. thats what im gonna start working on! :nod:
[QUOTE=clarity;5340233]
water? :wack:
Ill let you know how I get on :thumbs::wack:
Low carb Protein http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280516132538&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
The rule of thumb with 0 carb foods is: If it had a mother, or its green and leafy, then its good to eat
Where did you get your assessment done mate? Its something I'd like to do. Your plan looks pretty good. I may copy it (although adjust to my own body obviously).
At my gym hey have a tanita 418 body composition analyser. I think it's pretty accurate, measures the usual fat mass, fat free mas, muscle mass, bmi and bf%. It's cost them about £2500.
http://www.tanita.com/en/bc-418/
I was told the key to accurate readings is to measure first thing in the morning, do not eat or drink for 12 hours, and no coffee or alcohol for 24 hours before taken readings.
:hurl: Why are carb free food gross :cry:[/
Do you not eat fish or meat? I love meat, so no carb days are easy for me, and look forward to having a t-bone steak for dinner
stevie_t
03-06-2010, 19:29
What are you guys eating for lunches ???? I have to take my lunch to work with me as i dont have time to go and get anything. At the moment i have lots of veg but usually with whole meal pasta.Whats a good lunch if im looking to tone up ???I do lots of cardio ( ride 5miles to work and back everyday) and at the gym a fare bit but im struggling to lose the fat just above my waistline.
ste
I would take some chicken breast with bacon bits in a bit of salad, a protein shake for mid afternoon
What are you guys eating for lunches ???? I have to take my lunch to work with me as i dont have time to go and get anything. At the moment i have lots of veg but usually with whole meal pasta.Whats a good lunch if im looking to tone up ???I do lots of cardio ( ride 5miles to work and back everyday) and at the gym a fare bit but im struggling to lose the fat just above my waistline.
ste
If your calorie deficit each day then you will lose fat. Weight training is also great for fat burning and if you train hard there should be minimal loss of muscle. The gym instructor recommened low weight, high rep, but my neighbour who cuts for competitions opinion was high rep, low weight, did not tone muscle or aid fat loss!
Meals should be small but regular. Consume slow carbs, but in small portions. My typical day would be protein shake, 1 whole/3 egg whites scrambled on wholemeal toast.
Train, followed with oats, blended together with a banana, apple, low fat yogurt and water, and protein shake.
For lunch, chicken/turkey/tuna/salmon salad with small portion of pasta.
Snack, chicken breast, with soda bread/wholemeal pita on high carb days.
Dinner, chicken/turkey/fish/steak with large portion of veg.
Bedtime, protein shake with skimmed milk.
Hope that helps :thumbs:
The gym instructor recommened low weight, high rep, but my neighbour who cuts for competitions opinion was high rep, low weight, did not tone muscle or aid fat loss!Hope that helps :thumbs:
Do you mean your neighbour did Low rep, High Weight? I think this is best for Fat loss and increased strength. Its more of a shock to the nervous system to load your body up with more weight than it is comfortable with. That triggers Testosterone production and fat loss. However, you should mix it up every now and then :thumbs:
Yea, low weight high rep is a myth, you either build muscle or you don't. The best way to get definition is to build muscle and cut fat. Best way to build muscle is to push big weights, best way to cut fat is to eat properly!
Simaroon
04-06-2010, 11:51
where do eggs and milk fit into this low carb way of eating?
and what about brown bread / rice
ideas for anyone stuck -
i shall bestarting the 12 day menu next mon so i will let you know how i get on
http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/lowcarbmenus1/tp/12lowcarbmenus.htm
Eggs are good! They will form a big part of this diet. Milk try and avoid. Its ok to have a little in Tea but try use whipping cream instead
Yea, low weight high rep is a myth, you either build muscle or you don't. The best way to get definition is to build muscle and cut fat. Best way to build muscle is to push big weights, best way to cut fat is to eat properly!
no its not a myth. it works like that on me.. i lifted lighter free wieghts for years and stayed slim and toned but never looked much bigger.. years later when i was much stronger and pushed heavy weights i saw more mass week by week as long as i kept up with the routine!
body builders mix thats how they have mass and definition!
Stig 2.0
05-06-2010, 11:10
no its not a myth. it works like that on me.. i lifted lighter free wieghts for years and stayed slim and toned but never looked much bigger.. years later when i was much stronger and pushed heavy weights i saw more mass week by week as long as i kept up with the routine!
body builders mix thats how they have mass and definition!
I dont mean to be a know it all but that is utterly untrue. Lifting light is like doing cardio thats why you didnt gain mass with it.
Body builders have mass and definition by extreme caloire control: will basicaly starving themselfs by at time of compatition will be on diet with defict of 1500-2000 cals of what they need, dehydration restricting water more and more closer they get to competing, saunas, cuttings foods that make you retain. After competing they will generaly put on 7+lbs in week after, as you body cannot maintain how they look in magazines forever.
To OP/TS if your goals are purely bodybuilding perpose Bulk 1st then cut down. I know of no profesional bodybuilder that trys to put on lean mass alone as it is near on impossible as you will also put on weight via water, connective tissues ect.
Diet as for carb cycling personaly I dont like it due to your bodys insulin responses. Nutrional timing is key really and limiting carbs (I have mine mid morning- to 1pm)
Example my diet for getting up on weight.
Breakfast - Protein shake fortified with flax seed oil. (Muscle milk IMO is best)
Mid-morning - Sandwich (grainary/wholemeal) some form of meat, spinach or kale, avocado and organic mayo
Lunch - Salad again with either spinach or kale 2 breast of chicken/turkey/salmon ect ,cherry tomateos 4, feta cheese/cottage cheese, olives, 4 eggs, carrot and cucumber and avocado
Snack - cashews, almonds and walnuts, jerky (or cold cuts), and cheeses. Depending on how bored I am on one or the other.
Dinner - Steak and eggs and pint of milk.
no its not a myth. it works like that on me.. i lifted lighter free wieghts for years and stayed slim and toned but never looked much bigger.. years later when i was much stronger and pushed heavy weights i saw more mass week by week as long as i kept up with the routine!
body builders mix thats how they have mass and definition!
Theres many sources explaining why its not true.
Performing lighter weight with more repetitions (15-20 reps, 20-30 reps, or 20-50 reps) does not burn more fat or tone (simultaneous decrease of fat and increase muscle) better than a heaver weight with moderate repetitions (8-12 reps). Weight training utilizes carbohydrates after the initial ATP and CP stores have been exhausted after the first few seconds of intense muscular contraction. Typically a set's duration is 20 to 30 seconds. For the average fit person, it requires 20 to 30 minutes of continuous aerobic activity with large muscle groups (e.g. Gluteus Maximus and Quadriceps) to burn even 50% fat; fat requires oxygen to burn. Performing a few extra repetitions on a weight training exercise is not significant enough to burn extra fat and may in effect burn less fat. If intensity is compromised, less fat may be burned when light weight is used with high repetitions. The burning sensation associated with high repetition training seems to be the primary deterrent for achieving higher intensities.
It is plausible that the high repetition myth was originated and later propagated by bodybuilders that used calorie restrictive diets to shed fat before a contest. Because of their weakened state from dieting, they were unable to use their usual heavier weights. When asked about their use of lighter weights, they explained they were "cutting up" for a contest. This is merely a theory, but it is easy to see how it may have been misunderstood that the lighter weight was used to reduce fat instead of actually being a result of their dietary regime.
http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/Myths.html
Low weight/High rep training is from the same school of thought that you can spot target fat, which is just silly. It's usually fed to middle-aged women who can't be arsed to use the treadmill or push weights, so they think they're doing something and keep their gym membership active!
Stig, why the pint of milk with dinner? I have my last protein shake with milk, but always unsure whether I should due to the sugar content.
Stig 2.0
05-06-2010, 13:10
Protein isn't stored as body fat and if you eat it before bed, it'll feed your muscles through the catabolic process of sleep, and you'll wake up in a better state to move from catabolic to anabolic throughout your day.
Its not a protien shake as I have one P/WO I train 630-930 and dont get home until aprox 10pm so have a late dinner aswel timing wise not necessary. If worried about sugars I would really reccomend mucsle milk just the normal one have one scoop not two the small amount of carbs are negated really.
Also thanks for posting that link for low weight high reps. Good to help educate people with the "bro science" that gets thrown around at gyms which is a bunch of :censored: and misleads people :thumbs: top man!
I
To OP/TS if your goals are purely bodybuilding perpose Bulk 1st then cut down. I know of no profesional bodybuilder that trys to put on lean mass alone as it is near on impossible as you will also put on weight via water, connective tissues ect.
My plan was to lose some fat before trying to bulk. I was 25% bf :o, now down to 17%. I thought it would be best to lower my bf first, as i will gain some fat when trying to make a clean bulk :confused: My goals are to build mass.
.
Its not a protien shake as I have one P/WO
That's another point that confuses me is post work out. Alot say to have a protein shake immediately after work out, but your body convert whatever you feed it into glucose for energy and to restore glycogen store. Is it best to consume some sugars first to restore glycogen, followed then by a protein shake 20 minutes later when your body will obsorb what you consume :confused:
I consume all my carbs before 1pm, some at breakfast to fuel traning, and 80% pwo, and the remaining in my meal 1 hour after training.
.
I train 630-930
Do you train for 3 hours :eek: or just between those hours? Do you focus on just one or two muscle groups during workout? I was just working on one muscle group per session, 5 days per week, as must of the routines on the net follow that regime, but was told at the gym i need to hit them more then once a week :confused:
Thanks for the advice :thumbs:
Stig 2.0
07-06-2010, 00:42
If eating clean and correct timing for foods you will lower body fat from 25% anyway.
Clean bulking from low bodyfat is near on impossible dont know of bodybuilders that do that.
It depends on times you train I have to train late due to work and I dont fancy waking up 12am to make dinner. Explaining insuline sensitivity, absorbtion ect would take up loads il give you some links instead http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f15/ look on there and the FAQ stickys il try and dig up some other good sources.
I dont really do bodybuilding anymore (except when summers coming up :P ) so I train from 630 til 930 monday to friday will be mix of sombo and strenght training. sats il do active rest light jog or streching maybe a swim sunday will be easy session. Personaly all I really care about is being strong looks after but generaly come with the strenght training to a degree
Id reccommend max ot or bill stars 5x5 3 times week really. Or just the 4 big lifts BP OHP DL and squating like a mofo.
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