another fish tank lol

[driftk1ng]

today i picked up my bette lifespace 1300 marine tank and its absolutley amazin lol 500 litres of pure ocean,well at least it will be when ive finished it.made the stand up and fitted tank and it now filled with water etc just gonna leave it over night to heat and filter etc.what is the ideal temp i want this to be then ? ill post pics as it gets more interesting.

[pdh 14a]

Sounds nice! Looking forward to the pics! :thumbs:

[Egon]

Just googled that and that looks really nice mate! :D

[driftk1ng]

its huge lol just salted water so test it soon

[Bahnstormer]

A marine keeper eh? Good lad :thumbs:

[driftk1ng]

well first time marine keeper lol but had tropical for years,this tank is massive about 500 litres stands 5feet tall with stand and im hoping for great things eventually .:nod:

[Egon]

Thats a swimming pool, not a fishtank....:wack: :D

[driftk1ng]

it is pretty large just fine tuning salt levels now till weekend

[Leviathan]

Using r o water i hope?

[driftk1ng]

no i was told my a very knowledgable member of staff at the place i bought it that as im leaving it for at least a week to ten days before anything goes in the tank that r o water is best to use as a water change plus getting 500 litres of water 20 miles is pretty impossible,so wat ill do is every month ill buy 100 litres of r o water and use that as a water change eventually it;ll all be r o water

[Leviathan]

good luck with the high pospate reading and the algae growth then....
not ment to be sarcastic but you were given bad advice there and he cant be very knowledgable at all sorry to say.

[Robbhp]

please tell me your not using tap water ?

[Robbhp]

also you will never be-able to house any coral or Inverts as the copper in your water will wipe them out.

[Robbhp]

You were given bad advice there and he cant be very knowledgable at all sorry to say.

So very true not good advice at all, for the cost of an ** unit is so low these days, they are as essential as live rock. its not a case as it would be nice to have one its something you need.

[Jem]

Get your own ** unit, they are only about £100 now:nod:

And I would DEFINITELY start with 100% **. Starting with tap water is going to end in a mess. You will never get your nitrates and phosphates to zero, you'll get no end of problems with algae from diatoms to slime algae to the water turning green, and all but the hardiest of fish will be very unhappy and corals will slowly die.

What are you planing on keeping? How are you going to filter the tank and what lighting?

For temp, aim for bang on 25°C and it needs to stay as stable as possible. Having 500 litres of water will help with this.

[driftk1ng]

the bloke who owns aquatic centre told me to use tap water as the chlorines etc dissipate over time and to use r o water every time i water change which will eventually lead to all r o water,i took this advice as he actually sells r o water and was doing himself out of a sale by telling me this which is why i listened to him. the tank is for mainly fish and live rock i reckon i hope this turns out right now as this has cost me rather a lot of money to buy and set up:annoyed:

[Leviathan]

have you put the sand or anything else in the tank that can asorb water?
if not (and i know it going to mean throwing away the salted water that you have spent money on) empty the tank and get your own r o unit and fill it with that.

[Jem]

the bloke who owns aquatic centre told me to use tap water as the chlorines etc dissipate over time and to use r o water every time i water change which will eventually lead to all r o water,i took this advice as he actually sells r o water and was doing himself out of a sale by telling me this which is why i listened to him. the tank is for mainly fish and live rock i reckon i hope this turns out right now as this has cost me rather a lot of money to buy and set up:annoyed:

It's upto you, but the guy at the aquatics shop is 100% wrong. You'll end up with a tane that looks like a swamp.

Yes it is true about chlorine evaporating, but the nitrates and phosphates in tap water don't. Bear in mid you are looking for nitrate and phosphate to be as close to zero as possible, and I'm talking really close to zero. The level of nitrate and phosphate in tap water is about 100 times what you should be aiming for. The nitrate level in my cube was one thousandth of that of tap water.

Start with R O and everything should be fine. Start with tap water, and you may as well not bother.

[driftk1ng]

ive spoke to another aquatic place today and he said because im leaving it a while before fish go in it'll be ok he said i will get algae on the coral stone but it will go after 5 weeks or so so ill risk it i think ive got a comprehensive test kit which ill use before anything goes in.i know r o water is best but it wasnt possible to move 500 litres to my house

[Leviathan]

NO it wont be ok, dont want to move 500 ltrs of r o water then buy a r o unit and you will know the water is as good as it can be, but hey if you want to fill it with tap water then in a month or so`s time put another post asking why your stock is dying and your tank is being overrun by algae, then have to strip the whole tank down replace the sand wash the live rock then go through another cycle, be my guest its your time and money you will be wasting.

[Leviathan]

Just to give you an idea on how important low phospate is, pic is my tank with a nearly zero reading, note i have a bit of algae growth on the top of the rock at the back.
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo109/Sky-osterly-training/Marine%20tank/DSCF0043.jpg
and your tap water has probably got a reading of 100 or more at a guess

[Nismo dave]

I agree with the above. Tap water just isn't good enough. There are no shortcuts with marines and bad things can happen very quickly. I would personally empty the tank and join some marine forums/read some books....and then start again. :)

[Jem]

NO it wont be ok, dont want to move 500 ltrs of r o water then buy a r o unit and you will know the water is as good as it can be, but hey if you want to fill it with tap water then in a month or so`s time put another post asking why your stock is dying and your tank is being overrun by algae, then have to strip the whole tank down replace the sand wash the live rock then go through another cycle, be my guest its your time and money you will be wasting.

Seconded.

Or save yourself a load of hastle and sell the tank now, as it will be worth a lot more unused now than it will when you break it down in a few months after battling algae after starting with tap water.

www.r o-man.com (without the space in the middle)

:thumbs:

[simonas]

I've just bought my first libve rock as well, after reading a load on marine forums I;ve filled mine with ** aswell! seems to be the advice all keepers give

[Robbhp]

As both I an others have said you need ** if you can't afford a unit then in my opinion you can't afford a splash on the salty side :( , everyone is also missing the importance of having no copper in your tank this will kill 99% of inverts and even if you do swap for ** at a later date you will never get the copper out of the tank. One other important fact you will find the rock will soak up the nitrate which will then leach it back into the tank long after you have tried to clean up your tank , i find it hard to believe how wrong this shop owner is LOL , but in the end if you go down his path you will see that the people in this thread ( who have nothing to gain where correct) and the shop owner who will sell you more and more ** was wrong.


Why does the forum Block the word R O LOL

[jimbo]

Why does the forum Block the word R O LOL


Apparently it's the Monaro filter - was catching me out the other fish tank thread as well! :D

[driftk1ng]

the shop owner isnt selling me r o thats my point he has it but says i dont have to use it to set tank up so why would he do himself out of a sale of about 500 litres of the stuff? also like he said these fish come from the sea is that r o water to ? he has said i will get algae bloom but with nothin for it to feed on it will die off, he also said he never uses r o water even though he sells it and his tanks are pretty good. im not saying anyone is wrong but this is his long standing business which is doing very well and as im now a pretty good customer why would he give me bad advice so i go elsewhere?

[Leviathan]

Weel we have tried to educate you but it seems you wont heed our warnings:annoyed::annoyed:, if you dont belive us go here http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/index.php
and ask about setting up a tank with tap water.
or read this taken from the forum itself, oh and as for the shop keeper, hes a twat, i wouldnt touch a shop that admits to using tap water with a barge pole.

If you're thinking about setting up a marine aquarium you will no doubt be encountering no end of questions and plenty of decisions that need making. One of those questions may be, Can i use tap water in my tank? Hopefully reading on will answer that question for you...

What's so important about water then?

Marine fish have a reputation for being temperamental in comparison to other types of fish. The sea is the most stable Eco-system on the planet and is able to keep its water parameters perfect for the creatures that live there. Your tank will become a mini Eco-system of its own, so it is only fair to replicate the environment as closely as possible by using only the best quality water you can. After all, why spend hundreds if not thousands of pounds on setting up your tank, to use water which falls far short of the natural properties of sea water.

Natural Sea Water (NSW) contains hundreds of elements that are suspended throughout the water column and are essential to the well being of the animals that live there. Elements such as Iodine, Magnesium, Calcium, Iron, Strontium, Boron, Potassium etc. These levels rarely change by substantial amounts meaning these creatures are used to specific consistent water parameters day in day out.


What does tap water contain that's so bad?

You may think that ordinary tap water is quite ok to use as we drink and bathe in it every day, but in reality you will find no end of un-desirables that, while not harmful to us in the doses that are present, they simply aren't suited to a reef tank.
When farmers grow crops they use fertiliser to help them grow. These fertilisers contain high concentrations of Nitrates and Phosphates, when it rains the fertiliser can get washed in to our local water supply. These are not removed because they're not harmful to us but in a reef tank they can be devastating. One of the constant battles for the reefer is removing these two unwanted organics, we certainly don't need to be adding them directly.

Whilst the water is being piped through to your home its likely to pick up other elements from the pipes its travelling through as well such as copper, a metal which has catastrophic effects in a reef tank, fatal to invertebrates it kills anything living within an exoskeleton. The quality of your water will also vary dependant upon the time of the year meaning it would be very difficult to make consistent batches of saltwater for your water changes.

All this means is that the fish, coral and inverts you're planning on keeping, put simply, are not used to having these unnecessarily added elements present. this means they're not good elements to be adding to your tank. For example ammonia, nitrites and nitrate are all toxic to marine life in varying degrees and most invertebrates are incredibly sensitive to copper. The tiniest amount in your tank is enough to kill them. Algae feeds on phosphates and nitrates, the higher these levels are, the worse your algae situation can be (see pictures) which has a knock on result and will make your PH levels unstable.

The manufacturers of the major brand salt labels we commonly use, design the salt to be used with ** water. The reason they do this, is because our tap water supply is so inconsistent, it would be impossible for them to know how much of each of the trace elements to put in to the salt so that when we mix our water, the results would have the same properties as natural sea water. You would never be able to keep your water parameters stable, which is your No.1 objective really. This leads us to Reverse Osmosis......

So what about Reverse Osmosis (**)?

Reverse osmosis is basically when water is passed under pressure through a series of prefilters, to remove particles and chlorine, and finally a membrane designed to allow water molecules through but trap everything else present. An ** unit on average, will remove 92 - 97% of the dissolved solids that your water contains. To remove the remaining dissolved solids, most quality ** units will have a DI (De-Ionization) pod at the end. This will then, as previously mentioned, give you pure water for mixing your chosen salt with. The DI filter is capable of polishing 100% of the dissolved solids out of your water on its own, but it's costly, hence the reason a mixture of filters are used.

How do we measure the quality of our water?

To monitor the quality of our water we use a TDS (total dissolved solids) meter. TDS meters measure the amount of organic or in-organic substances that are present in water. The higher the TDS reading you get, the more unwanted properties your water contains.
There are 2 main types of TDS meters that are used by marine keepers, 'hand held' and 'in-line', both are very affordable costing about £15 - £25. The in-line meters are preferable if you have your own ** unit. These meters normally have a before and after reading, meaning you can see what the TDS is of your water before the filtration process and the end result allowing you to replenish your DI resin in plenty of time, and check your membrane is working ok.
Hand held meters can be used when you're buying your ** water from your local fish shop, or producing your own.

How much will it cost me to produce my own ** water?

The most cost effective way to use ** water is to buy your own unit. For example a 50gpd (gallon per day) four stage ** unit with the added DI resin pod should cost under £100.
Most LFS will sell ** water as well, but the quality of the water will vary from shop to shop, most LFS wont filter the water through a DI unit meaning the water will more than likely be of a lesser quality than if you owned your own unit. Buying ** water from your LFS, is not really cost effective either, costs average between £2 - £4 for 25ltrs. So you can see after a year of buying water from your LFS, you will have probably spent more money than if you were to buy your own ** unit, for water that's of a poorer quality.

There are running costs to a ** unit, the prefilters which protect the membrane have to be changed at regular intervals, recommended every 6 months dependant on use. But these very occasional costs still add up to being much cheaper than buying your water. It isn't easy to work out exactly how much say 25 ltrs would cost, there is just so many factors involved, but one major manufacturer (**-MAN) says that working off some standards that have had to be set, it works out about 63p per 25 ltrs of **.

Would it not be cheaper to just use tap water???

At this stage is may appear that tap water is the cheaper option over buying or producing your own ** water, but in the long run this will not be the case. To counter-act the poor quality water being used, more equipment will likely be needed to reverse the effects of your tap water, such as a phosphate reactor. Add to that the monthly if not fortnightly renewal costs of the phosphate removal media, and the fact you will need certain additives to balance your water parameters it is not a cheap option. In the long run, ** water is cheaper, and the better option for your tanks inhabitants.

[Jem]

also like he said these fish come from the sea is that r o water to?

No it's not R O, but you then add a Marine mix salt to that, which companies like the TMC have spent A LOT of money developing so it makes R O water nigh on identical to sea water.

Tap water is a million miles away from sea water, more fool you if you use it. I'm out:annoyed::annoyed::annoyed:

[Robbhp]

i am not comming back to this thread as i am going to start swearing at you, the shop keeper is giving you very bad advise , but you know what go ahead and do it , while you are at it lob a gallon of bleach in there too.

Sorry to be blunt :(

[driftk1ng]

why get so stressed out lol the shop keeper will have a lot to answer to if this goes tits up im not being funny to anyone here but he's the professional not just some random bloke i know , he's been running a very succesful aquatic business for yrs so im stuck in the middle really so time will tell i appreciate all your comments:thumbs:

[Jem]

but he's the professional not just some random bloke i know , he's been running a very succesful aquatic business

Yeah I've met many just like him, most don't know sh1t:nod:

And just so you know I'm not some random bloke you know, here's my cube in Practical Fishkeeping (the pictures are big enough so you can read it) :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v189/jerem_rsv_uk24/1-4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v189/jerem_rsv_uk24/2-4.jpg

[Bahnstormer]

Wow. Just wow. I don't think we should be having a go at the OP, he's been given advice by a so-called "pro" and to a degree I can see why he would question what he been told on here.

BUT.

What the guy has told you is wrong. End of story. If you want to ruin your setup, please, go ahead and use tap water. If not, get yourself a reverse osmosis unit and do things properly.

Marine fish are (for the mostpart) pretty delicate things. Even hardy fish like goldfish can't survive in tap water and need certain additives to be introduced to their tanks. A marine setup WILL NOT last long on tap water.

So, get yourself an R-O unit and you'll be fine. There's also the added bonus that you'll have a wonderfully pure source of drinking water :wack:

[Leviathan]

Well you obviously didnt read what i posted or what to take any of our advice so go ahead and fill it with tap water, have loads of algae and kill your fish and inverts, oh and while you are at it you might as well save yourself the bother and start a nice fire with £200 instead of making any fish and inverts suffer a painful death................
oh and i for one will laugh when in a couple of months time you post asking how to clear your tank of algae and lower the high pospates

[bren]

why get so stressed out lol the shop keeper will have a lot to answer to if this goes tits up im not being funny to anyone here but he's the professional not just some random bloke i know , he's been running a very succesful aquatic business for yrs so im stuck in the middle really so time will tell i appreciate all your comments:thumbs:

I understand where you are coming from but have just read this thread and from a complete and utter not a clue about fish perspective the argument for R O sounds strong. I personally would at the very least go and ask round more local fish shops, see what they say.

[Robbhp]

Sorry for getting stressed at you but million and million of fish and coral die in the hands of bad advise. The hobby of Saltwater fish keeping has to be one of the most selfish ( no pun intended) act there is, as there are only very few fish that will bread in captivity, meaning 90% of all fish you will buy will be wild cought. Its somthing that i feel very strongly about and also can get very emotional about, for which i will not apologize. Please heed to what others have said or call a few not so local and local shops and ask them what they think, as you said we are a bunch of random people that you don't know from Adam, so please call and have a little chat with these people.

Oassis Manchester 0161 8325836
Abiss Stockport 0161 4764439
Aquascope 01254 884 833

for my local area there are some very very good shops with a wealth of info, although on this matter its more a case of common sense with regard to fish keeping

Also Ultimate reef is a very good webpage but can sometimes be a little clicky, also try fishforums :) its a great board that allway happy to help and not as big so you get to know people.

ROB

[driftk1ng]

well i thought id post to say my tank is doing amazingly well considering everyone said it would crash n burn , algea did grow but it also died like i was told it would by local aquarium dude lol my live rock is very much alive and sproutin feather dusters brittle stars and star fish . my inverts again are fine i have a boxer shrimp 2x cleaner shrimp and 1 large fire shrimp , also an emerald crab and they are all doing fine so are the fish ill post pics later to prove it lol .i have bought a uv unit and recently an ozone unit to just to make certain water is crystal and i gotta admit every water test has been spot on to. ive lost 1 fish and i think my dwarf lionfish ate it lol as it literally just dissappeared.

[driftk1ng]

Well you obviously didnt read what i posted or what to take any of our advice so go ahead and fill it with tap water, have loads of algae and kill your fish and inverts, oh and while you are at it you might as well save yourself the bother and start a nice fire with £200 instead of making any fish and inverts suffer a painful death................
oh and i for one will laugh when in a couple of months time you post asking how to clear your tank of algae and lower the high pospates

will u still laugh when i post pictures of how clear tank is later to lol

[Leviathan]

yes i will, cause all those phospates will have leached into the sand and rock and will come back to haunt you, but hey you must know better than all the people on here, and marine forums etc

[driftk1ng]

every test done by me and at least 3 other aquatic stores are all fine

[gonzomagic]

Dude, why dont you seek advice for a censensus rtaher then one shop owner?

Its not hard, bound to be a few aquarium shops who will happily give you advice.

You are on SXOC for what, advice, knowledge, etc etc on your SX.

Why not join a few fish forums, and do the same?

Its your money end of the day, we are not here to give you false facts.

[driftk1ng]

maybe i got lucky but there is no sign of any bad stuff in there and tank has been stocked slowly for a while now with good results ,ie water quality spot on but with skimmer ozone and uv id expect it to be plus a massive filtered sump lol . anyway im not gloating at all just wanted to say tank is fine along with everything in it and once home ill put pics up

[driftk1ng]

Dude, why dont you seek advice for a censensus rtaher then one shop owner?

Its not hard, bound to be a few aquarium shops who will happily give you advice.

You are on SXOC for what, advice, knowledge, etc etc on your SX.

Why not join a few fish forums, and do the same?

Its your money end of the day, we are not here to give you false facts.

i dont think i did ask for advice though i was just saying wat id bought and wat i was planning to do , and to be honest when i was thinking about buying salt tank i did speak to a few people and one pro they all said that aldea would bloom and die which it did i now have a crystal clear tank full of life which cant be wrong if things are actually growin from live rock

[gonzomagic]

i dont think i did ask for advice though i was just saying wat id bought and wat i was planning to do , and to be honest when i was thinking about buying salt tank i did speak to a few people and one pro they all said that aldea would bloom and die which it did i now have a crystal clear tank full of life which cant be wrong if things are actually growin from live rock

Fair cop, have you tested the water for specific chemicals? if you do, write them down, and keep a log, good luck.

[gonzomagic]

i dont think i did ask for advice though i was just saying wat id bought and wat i was planning to do , and to be honest when i was thinking about buying salt tank i did speak to a few people and one pro they all said that aldea would bloom and die which it did i now have a crystal clear tank full of life which cant be wrong if things are actually growin from live rock


double post, IE playing up,ignore

[bren]

just wanted to say tank is fine along with everything in it and once home ill put pics up

Good to hear. All that matters is that the tanks clean and heathly, none or the iff or butts are relevent now. Hopefully there will be no long terms effects and you can enjoy your tank for what it is :)

[driftk1ng]

honestly it looks awesome ill post pics later but i cant believe the life that come outta the live rock lol and having such a large tank is amazing at night lights off with tank lights on shimmering lol

[driftk1ng]

Fair cop, have you tested the water for specific chemicals? if you do, write them down, and keep a log, good luck.

i bought one of these for testing and i regularly take water in to be tested at which ever shop i get fish from normally shirley aquatics,worcester aquatics and the pets at home aquatics in cheltenam tey have all said water is fine http://www.marinedepot.com/Aquarium_Pharmaceuticals_Saltwater_Liquid_Master_T est_Kit_Master_Test_Kits_for_Saltwater_Aquariums-Aquarium_Pharmaceuticals_API_MARS_Fishcare-AP3313-FITKMK-vi.html

[driftk1ng]

just a few pics lol spiny urchin ,fuzzy dwarf lion fish etc

[Bahnstormer]

That fuzzy dwarf lion is gorgeous :nod:

I want my lionfish back!! :cry: And my eels, lunare wrasse and dragon wrasse.

[driftk1ng]

he is ace lol he loves prawns to

[Nismo dave]

he is ace lol he loves prawns to

And Cleaner/Boxing shrimps. ;)

[driftk1ng]

got a large fire shrimp to but hes camera shy lol ,
fuzzy to small to eat them thats why i got dwarf he shows no interest in them lol , a wanted a volitans lionfish but they very big compared and agressive .

[driftk1ng]

some more pics i managed to get at feeding time lets play spot the crab lol

[driftk1ng]

just some more pics of tank lol fire shrimp , spiny urchin and my very shy brittle star .

[driftk1ng]

newest members lol