Virgin Media to trial filesharing monitoring system

[Monkey]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/26/virgin_media_detica/

more in link


Virgin Media will trial deep packet inspection technology to measure the level of illegal filesharing on its network, but plans not to tell the customers whose traffic will be examined.

The system, CView, will be provided by Detica, a BAE subsidiary that specialises in large volume data collection and processing, and whose traditional customers are the intelligence agencies and law enforcement.

The trial will cover about 40 per cent of Virgin Media's network, a spokesman said, but those involved will not be informed. "It would be counter-productive because it doesn't affect customers directly," he said.

CView will operate at the centre of Virgin Media's network on aggregate traffic, the spokesman emphasised, and seek only to determine the proportion of filesharing traffic that infringes copyright.



hmm this is interesting, how long before the othe ISP's follow suit? and how long before there is a way round this?

i dont download much, but what i do is from Iplayer etc

[Sideways14a]

Er DPI has been used by many british isp's for a while.
BT are fvcking ridicules for low level scanning and traffic shaping, they also bum streaming as well.

Just be glad Phorm is now dead:)

[Ninja]

I`m guessing encrypted stuff downloaded from newsgroups wouldn`t be picked up by this would it?

[Monkey]

Er DPI has been used by many british isp's for a while.
BT are fvcking ridicules for low level scanning and traffic shaping, they also bum streaming as well.

Just be glad Phorm is now dead:)

but (not knowing fully how it all actually works) this what virgin are doing is actually looking at the files you download using some software to check what it is, where is from, where its going and does it breach copyright laws etc, yes other ISP's monitor but dont they just monitor where its from and make a call on this?

from the link


The system will look at traffic and identify the peer-to-peer packets. In a step beyond how ISPs currently monitor their networks, it will then peer inside those packets and try to determine what is licensed and what is unlicensed, based on data provided by the record industry.

Virgin Media emphasised that it is seeking to measure the overall level of illegal filesharing, not to keep records on individual customers. Data on the level of copyright infringement will be aggregated and anonymised.

Nevertheless, the trial - which has no scheduled end date - is likely to prove controversial. CView's deep packet inspection is the same technology that powered Phorm's advertising system, which allowed monitoring and targeting of individual internet users. It too was trialled - by BT - without customers' consent or knowledge

[Sideways14a]

Bt were trailing this and have been using packet inspection to throttle traffic, also DPI can inspect any data being fed through your isp connection so yes newsgroups and all..
The only solution, encryption..

[Guy]

Just make sure you encrypt your torrents, then job done :nod:

[JC]

If your using Peerguardian will you be ok?

[Jezz_S13]

Bt were trailing this and have been using packet inspection to throttle traffic, also DPI can inspect any data being fed through your isp connection so yes newsgroups and all..
The only solution, encryption..

What have you been trialing?

We've been trialing a few too.
Palo Alto - ok.
NetEnforcer - good.
Packetlogic. - superb.

Chances are it won't pickup on the content of the SSL'd newsgroup stuff, it might be seen/fagged as potentially suspicious, but wouldn't be proven.

[Jezz_S13]

Just make sure you encrypt your torrents, then job done :nod:

DPI knows what encrypyed torrents look like, and can shape them.

[wobbit]

DPI knows what encrypyed torrents look like, and can shape them.

For some reason I read this and thought.

In Russia, encrypted torrents shape you.

[Sideways14a]

Yeah while encrypting data may indeed stop them from finding out what you are transferring, it wont stop the bastards throttling it.
If an isp sees encrypted p2p traffic then its going to throttle the bugger regardless of whether it is a legitimate p2p download or not.
Arsebandits.

[aidstap]

this seems kind of relevant http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/article/13175/comms/eircom-irma-three-strikes-deal-rocked-by-french-court-ruling

[Jezz_S13]

Yeah while encrypting data may indeed stop them from finding out what you are transferring, it wont stop the bastards throttling it.
If an isp sees encrypted p2p traffic then its going to throttle the bugger regardless of whether it is a legitimate p2p download or not.
Arsebandits.

Well you say arsebandits, but as 99.999% of bittorrent is illegal it's just tough on the linux geeks that insist on distibuting their stuff by torrent. :D

I don't think they'd throttle SSL news.

At least one of the boxes, maybe more could decrypt SSL web traffic. That's a bit scary.

[Sharpy]

Yeah while encrypting data may indeed stop them from finding out what you are transferring, it wont stop the bastards throttling it.
If an isp sees encrypted p2p traffic then its going to throttle the bugger regardless of whether it is a legitimate p2p download or not.
Arsebandits.

At least they will have no proof to cut you off if they can't see if it's illegal or not. Eventually you'll get the file. Still crap though!

I mainly download MP3's of vinyl from the early 90's rave scene. I'm never going to be able to buy it from iTunes or whatever. A lot of the records were white labels too.

[Sideways14a]

At least one of the boxes, maybe more could decrypt SSL web traffic. That's a bit scary.

Yeah, looking forward to the day my mail can be read by some spotty oik somewhere.
Also p2p traffic doesnt need to be predominantly dodgy, although a lot of it is.

BT throttles youtube/iplayer and fuk knows what else as well though, its shocking how slow a decent connection can get to at peek times, and its not all down to "contention" ....

[Ronin]

Yeah, looking forward to the day my mail can be read by some spotty oik somewhere.
Also p2p traffic doesnt need to be predominantly dodgy, although a lot of it is.

BT throttles youtube/iplayer and fuk knows what else as well though, its shocking how slow a decent connection can get to at peek times, and its not all down to "contention" ....

Virgin will throttle back your connection if you download over your allowance between the times of 1000-1500 and 1600-2200 ( 11 hours of the day when people are using the net the remainder of the day is when normal people are in bed ) but you do have unlimited downloads but at a reduced speed by 75% which means they cut a 10mb connection to 2.5mb but will still charge your for 10mb.

[Sharpy]

We're being robbed!

[s13silvia]

We're being robbed!

of the right to steal

[xR33]

It's not stealing :no: . It's previewing prior to purchasing :nod: .

[Martin T]

Yeah while encrypting data may indeed stop them from finding out what you are transferring, it wont stop the bastards throttling it.
If an isp sees encrypted p2p traffic then its going to throttle the bugger regardless of whether it is a legitimate p2p download or not.
Arsebandits.

Why would anyone encrypt a legitimate torrent?
There are plenty of legitimate reasons to use unencrypted torrents but lets be honest here, encrypted torrents are probably 99.9% pirated stuff.

[SidewaysThough]

Worrys me, will this matter with iplayer and tvshack or not/?

[nene]

I`m guessing encrypted stuff downloaded from newsgroups wouldn`t be picked up by this would it?
Maybe - it depends what criteria it's looking at.

Face facts, even if it's encrypted, it still knows where it's coming from so can make a guess at it.

Also, a lot of encryption on torrents is easily detectable and decryptable due to the rather unsophisticated methods historically used. In any case, if it's in the core of the network it will see all your traffic anyway and can carry out a Man-In-The-Middle attack.

If your using Peerguardian will you be ok?
Nope. Deep inspection will spot the traffic no matter what. It doesn't even necessarily care what's in it specifically. The way I would do it is to watch the torrents and the trackers, and look at who is participating in what, then watch the traffic to match up traffic flows with torrents.

Worrys me, will this matter with iplayer and tvshack or not/?
Well, it's only collecting information at the moment.

However, traffic shaping in general can identify and classify based on whatever criteria the people running it decide on. If they don't like the amount of youtube being watched, or how much iPlayer is being used, it's well within the capabilities to shape them down.

[s13silvia]

It's not stealing :no: . It's previewing prior to purchasing :nod: .

:smash::smash::smash::smash::smash::smash::smash:: smash::smash:

That reminds me I'm yet to purchase my 2000 version of **base :wack:

[Deacon]

what does Peerguardian do anyways ?

[alanjuggler]

not much if you have windows7 or vista :D

use PeerBlock instead ;)

It basically filters out IP addresses that actively monitor torrents for use in data collection etc - difference is, this is your ISP doing it, so there's no real way around it.