Loosing Coolant...

[Rubix_Cube]

:mad: Its starting to really bug me now :(

I'm loosing coolant at a kinda dramatic rate? for instance I drove from my home to Ayr and then back last night and I used 1lt of Coolant.:eek:

There is always still coolant in my expansion tank, it appears to loose it from just the Rad (which is a Koyo BTW), I have checked that all my hoses are tight, from engine to rad and I have replaced the Rad Cap also.

We (Kev) changed my coolant on Wednesday night and bled it correctly. While the rad cap was off Kev did not notice any bubbles as if the coolant was being pressurised.

What else can it be?! Its really starting to get on my tits.:cry:

[Daniel H]

When mine was loosing water, it was the water pump on its way out. It was coming from the little hole on the bottom of the bit that the fan bolts to.

[xR33]

If it's not your turbo lines, it's likely to be the Water pump :nod: . Mine has been on the way out now for 8 months, and I fill the expansion tank before every journey. Hasn't let me down yet [he says with a new water pump sitting on the desk :wack: ]

[Easy007]

This was the start of my water leaks

http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=414311

but as i had a pool under the car it was an obvious spot. Since that one went the one above it also went and now i've had to change my HG :(

[Rubix_Cube]

For those who dont know my Spec I have an HKS Metal Head gasket and a GReddy TD06, so no water lines. Its only started to develop, as the car didnt use water when I bought it from Madda.

I was thinking water pump, I'll take a closer look.

Another thing to notice is that mean heaters feel kinda cold unless your caning the car?

Thanks for the post Easy, but there is no leakage from under the car. No matter how long I leave it for. I will get me a water pump ordered. I know on at CA its a kinda **** about with the timing belt. Is it easier on the SR due to the chain?

[T.J]

headgasket???

[Rubix_Cube]

There's no signs in my oil of HG failure so unless my METAL HKS head gasket has randomly decided its had enough I dont think its that. Also, that would also pressurise the system causing bubbles in expansion tank/rad with the cap off. There was no signs of this when we were bleeding the coolant the other night.

[Daniel H]

The water pump is easy to change. The only belt you have to mess with is the fan belt.

When I got my water pump, it was only £30ish from nissan.

Here's the pictures I took if you want the part number :)

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g284/dan96_album/100_0291.jpg
It's the same as the one I took off, look

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g284/dan96_album/100_0292.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g284/dan96_album/100_0293.jpg

I think they are different to the S14 version, which has a different part number I think.

[Rubix_Cube]

Daniel
:notworthy Thanks for that!

[jod]

does it still missfire every now and again? and i guess your still not finding any puddles of water?

its mabie worth menchioning your car has an hks 2.1 stroker, possibly even new liners pressed in.theres a good chance your car had liners fitted.

only reason im saying is because theres been a few horror storys about darton liners being fitted and ending up leaking coolant through the liner because of burst water jackets...


or it could be the other way around. mabie its still running standard liners with oversized pistons. could have mabie cracked the block?


i apologise for giving you the worst case scenario's

[Rubix_Cube]

Thanks Jod, my worst case scenario has got worse now :o :(

[jod]

dude you've just got to keep an open mind about these things and think about checking all routes.

has there been any traces of water in the car? mabie it could be the matrix?

[Tokyo_black]

Stupid question I know but is it smoking?

[Rubix_Cube]

Little bit of blue smoke when warm.

I know Jod, the inside of the car is dry.

[T.J]

any white residue or white gunk on the oil filler cap or radiator filler cap

[Rubix_Cube]

No I know what the common signs of HG failure are...

[T.J]

sorry man only trying to help...

[Rubix_Cube]

I know, sorry my post came accross like a dick.

[Kev]

I know, sorry my post came accross like a dick.
Lol :D

Stop panicking wullie.
Right we need hard facts.
Before u start her in the morning fill the rad to the brim.
Take it to work 5 mins early.
When u get to work sit on a level dry piece of road and leave it idling for that five mins.
Have a good look at whats coming out of the exhaust, if its thick white smoke, u know its the coolant getting burned.... worst case obviously.
If not have a good look under the car, if still nothing, give it a good few revs to around 3k, and have a good look round the bay as well.

somethings gotta show mate:)

[Rubix_Cube]

Well the car doesnt move through the week Mr KevKev, I could bring it up at the weekend? (Again LOL)

[Kev]

Be better wed night again tbh mate if that suits?

[Rubix_Cube]

You free any weekend this month... the joys of me having a daily this time round as well as an S13 is that I can leave the S13 on the drive for a few weeks and it's fine LOL!

[Kev]

Erm defo not this one, maybe the next weekend, best to maybe give me a nudge though, u know what my memory is like :wack:

[Rubix_Cube]

LOL We can have a chat at the meet Mr Kev, don't worry about it :)

[Rubix_Cube]

Was talking to a guy at work about this today and thought I'd kinda bump this again... so

Current Symptoms:

Loosing Coolant from Rad, overflow bottle still showing Max Level.
DOES NOT Overheat (on stock gauge)
NO water in the passenger footwell
NO obvious pools under the car
Smokes very lightly when warm (Smoke is not "white" though). Only smokes when I blip the throttle, when moving there appears to be none.
Heaters are cold off throttle and hot on throttle
Misfiring slightly - May or may not be related.

I've made a kinda checklist aswell, anyone think there could be other steps in there. Bear in mind I've (Kev) changed the coolant, bled it through and also changed the Rad cap.

1. Check for leaks
2. Check for blocked pipes
3. Check thermostat
4. Check waterpump
5. Check HG
6. Check Block

Clearly the list in "OMFG Its ****ed" kinda order, 1 being not ****ed 6 being ****ed.

Your thoughts please ladies and gents.

[Kev]

its fcuked!!

:D

[Rubix_Cube]

Cheers Kev... did you know that if its ****ed I'll need someone with experience to build me a new one LOL

*cough cough* YOU *cough cough*

[frisbee]

Why not take it to a garage and get the cooling system pressure tested.

[Rubix_Cube]

Cause I'm Scottish (tight) LOL

Might end up having too I suppose... next day off is a few weeks away.

[xR33]

Could it be the gasket separating the inlet manifold from the head is leaking? Seem to remember someone having this problem, but not if it was S13 or S14.

Edit - The water leaks into No1 cylinder apparently.

[Rubix_Cube]

Oh thats a new one to the table xR33 LOL Even more jovial banter.

[Rubix_Cube]

2 Short videos....
This first vid the car was still kinda cool. Water temp on stock gauge was at normal, oil was around 50-60C. It looks bad, but remember the car aint moved or been started for 5 days!!!
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f25/rubix_cube84/180sx/th_MOV00910.jpg (http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f25/rubix_cube84/180sx/?action=view&current=MOV00910.flv)

This was me holding it on throttle to show that on throttle there appears to be no smoke.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f25/rubix_cube84/180sx/th_MOV00912.jpg (http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f25/rubix_cube84/180sx/?action=view&current=MOV00912.flv)

[Kev]

smoke does look kinda whiteish there wullie, but its not be started in 5 days so id expectquite a lot of condesate in the exhaust

[Rubix_Cube]

yeah.....I get whats in the 2nd video when its warm Kev.... water is clearly getting in somewhere.... Baws....

[Kev]

XR's is a good suggestion tbh, 1 ive never heard of but may be an sr trait.
And its by far the least expensive to fix

[Rubix_Cube]

CoolCool... I'll hit nissan on Saturday morning and get it ordered up.

Failing that anyone know the best place to buy a Black Top Non VVT SR20 LOL..... if it wasnt a pain in the arse I'd drop a CA in there Kev LOL

[Rubix_Cube]

[delete me!]

[big_mac]

What boost is it running?
Have you checked the head is to the required torque?

Colin gibson had a problem with his loosing coolant from somewhere when he was up around the 450bhp mark, it was suspected at first that the head bolts had stretched possibly allowing the head to lift under the boost pressure.

however it was found to be a cracked head, i think it was leaking into the bore and possibly into the exhaust port, although i cannot be certain of the latter.

if that is the case ten the only way to tell is to rip the head off and have it inspected.

i hope for your sake its not that.

[Rubix_Cube]

Its running about 1.2Bar on the TD-06. The engine was built in like 2005 and has been running since then.... something tells me Madda has drove it harder than me too, so I don't think the head bolts will have stretched, although, its another thought in the barrel.

Id rather the head were ****ed rather than the block Andy as its been worked on for the pistons to go in. If it is I'll simply buy valves, valve springs etc and drop it on the car with the cams from my head.

If the Inlet Mani gasket solves nothing something tells me I'll have to be pulled apart anyhoo...

[Madda]

Im so sad reading this, and seeing that smoke. I could leave the car for a month, fire it up and it would never puff anything :(

It never lost any coolant, and it only once ever got a little warm (I mean, the stock gauge moving from centre, not going up to the top or anything...on a smoking hot day), and after that it was screwed and screwed some more, and still, never a puff of smoke. You can see that on the rollers, and that was just before I sold it to you.

I really hope you sort it easily mate, you are a nice guy who has the support of the club so I am sure the problem will be identified soon enough, just hope its a simple one to sort.

Best wishes

[Rubix_Cube]

Cheers Madda, wouldnt worry about it. These things can happen. As i've said my biggest fear would be damage to the block as its had work done for the pistons. If its the head or HG I'll simply pull it off and replace it. If the head is warped I'll get another one as I noticed in the reciepts on Tuesday night its had a HG done before the big rebuilt.

Its all the banter of nissans :P

[Rubix_Cube]

Well I dunno if looking at the inlet gasket is worth while KevKev as the Workshop manual shows no water ways on it...

Looks like I'll be pulling an SR apart ¬_¬

[big_mac]

its worth doing a compression test first bud, that will give you an indication of what state the HG is in, or if you can find someone with the correct gear get the coolant sniff tested to see if its mixing with the exhaust gasses, better a few quid doing that rather than ripping the head off if its not the issue.

you checked all the coolant hoses? sometimes if its a small leak spraying onto something hot then you will never notice drips etc as it evaporates before you find it

[Kev]

On the vvt model theres defo a water way there Wullie.
U sure ur not looking at mani-plenum instead of mani-head??

ps.\ u should be on ur way to the meet just now

[Easy007]

I just had my inlet off and there is no water way between the mani and head, look....

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o191/Easy007/Nissan/Engine/Inlet/DSC01226.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o191/Easy007/Nissan/Engine/Inlet/DSC01227.jpg

The only thing is the breather from the corner of the valve cover that splits in two and goes to two holes in the four branch.

[Rubix_Cube]

Thanks for the pics Easy...

[redsx94!]

Think there's only water runs through the throttle body.

[Hallsy]

As has been said, you need to do some compression tests before you start pulling the Sr apart. Will at least give you an idea of where your problem might be.

Other option is a very minor leak near something hot that is evaporating off, so you can't see water on floor?

[Rubix_Cube]

Yeah gonna try and do a coolant system pressure test and a compression test over the weekend/next week. We'll see how I get on.

[Andyecr33/180sx]

Hope it's an easy fix Wullie.

[Rubix_Cube]

So do I Andy. I believed all this hype of SR's being more reliable LOL Dam I'd have a CA in a heartbeat :P

We'll see what happens with it and I'll be out abusing it soon!

[Rubix_Cube]

Well Ally popped round to test the coolant compression, but it appear that the tester he had was made in the 70s and none of the ends fitted to it LOL!

I did do a compression test when it was warm.

1 = 150
2 = 145-150
3 = 150
4 = 140-145

Anyone care to add any new thoughts?

[Easy007]

Seems about right to me......

Did you do a coolant combustion gas test too?

[Rubix_Cube]

I need to get one easy....

Where did you get yours?

[Kev]

Wullie we did a comp test when u were round did we not?
actually i may be thinking of another SR.... meh all looks the same :wack:

So theres no routes into the head from gaskets..... so if its burning water its either a cracked head, cracked block, or head gasket.
Or a outsider of turbo...

Think ur gonna have to do some proper proper leak searching Wullie.

Tell u what though, if u were burning water, id expect the plugs to have been cleaner.....

im leaning to turbo atm.

Might be an idea to get a couple of pairs of mole grips and put them on ur turbo flexi lines for a week.......

[Easy007]

I need to get one easy....

Where did you get yours?

I borrowed a tester from the garage down the road from me and did it myself.

[jod]

Wullie we did a comp test when u were round did we not?
actually i may be thinking of another SR.... meh all looks the same :wack:

So theres no routes into the head from gaskets..... so if its burning water its either a cracked head, cracked block, or head gasket.
Or a outsider of turbo...

Think ur gonna have to do some proper proper leak searching Wullie.

Tell u what though, if u were burning water, id expect the plugs to have been cleaner.....

im leaning to turbo atm.

Might be an idea to get a couple of pairs of mole grips and put them on ur turbo flexi lines for a week.......

kev, when i was looking over willys engine im sure his turbo is not water cooled

[Kev]

Bum, that takes out the easy option then Jody:(

Whats happening witrh urs btw??

[jod]

im rebuilding it myself kev...

planning on buying an apex stroker once there developed (think they'll be ready in 12 weeks) so that gives me time to get some headwork done and get the block sleeved.

should hopefully be all good.

[Rubix_Cube]

Was gonna say what Jod said. My turbo aint water I took it out today and gave it some mixed driving, I'll see how much its used...

[Rubix_Cube]

Well I got round to checking this tonight LOL! Appears to have used around 800ml-1000ml of coolant. My run would have been around 20/30miles of "mixed" driving to say the least! LOL Like plodding through town 30mph stuff + heavy Lepton's on the duelly at Wide Open Throttle and 1.2Bar. It seems to not smoke or anything.

It seems to be consistantly 500ml-1lt everytime. This may be because I am only ever taking it out for about 20miles at a time.

[ally]

Have you managed to get it pressure tested it yet?
If not I suggest you do so first. Most garages will have one (that fits :wack:) or you can buy a kit at Partco or Hellfrauds.

[Rubix_Cube]

Not yet Ally. Had someone else jump to the conclusion that its HG although all of sunday there was ZERO smoke from the exhaust!

I think I'll be taking it to APEX Motor's behind Ibrox on Friday to get them to pressure test it, might see if they have a combustion gas tester.

[Easy007]

Every garage known to man should have a comp tester, pressure tester and a gas tester! or, as ally said, we sell them.

[Rubix_Cube]

I just haven't had time Easy. This is my first main day off tomorrow.

[donrevey]

i second the leak test with the funky water

any decent garage or mot centre should have one

good luck mate i hope it aint nothing bad
:thumbs:

[Rubix_Cube]

So do I, me thinks tomorrow is "find out" day.

[T.J]

just a thought did you check the back of the head where the water feed for the turbo is (i know your turbo doesn't a water feed) there is probably a bung there on the hose it could be leaking there you will see the water on the gearbox just below the bulkhead

[Rubix_Cube]

I think it has been checked but its another one in the arsenal :)

[drifter]

I can't see your vids, but I had a similar problem with mine not long ago which turned out to be the HG. It was an HKS jobbie, it blew between 1-2 and 2-3 in the end. It was loosing water for a long time, in the end, after running it for a few miles to get the water hot, it would be an arse to start again and there would be clouds of white smoke. I assume because the pressurised water was puddling into the bores when the engine stopped? Have you looked at your plugs? I'll post a pic of mine in a minute :)

[drifter]

Pics are here, in order of pot, 1-2-3-4 :)

http://www.bigpower.co.uk/showthread.php?t=16599

No 2 was the one that I noticed the most :)

[Rubix_Cube]

Well the verdict is that it's definetly internal. So looks like I'll be slipping keV or hooky some beer money. Also on the look out for a black top non vvt SR20 head if anyone has a spare.

[Rubix_Cube]

Right having spoke to a few different people I now have the following "causes"

Head Gasket on its way out
Shifting Liner

or the starting of something VERY bad.

[Easy007]

i keep getting the same causes thrown at me for my pressurised cooling system problem

[drifter]

Right having spoke to a few different people I now have the following "causes"

Head Gasket on its way out
Shifting Liner

or the starting of something VERY bad.

That's the other thing I feared, it was fingers crossed when it went into APT to be ripped apart. Thankfully it was only the HG, but they did strip it completely and skim both the head and the block :)

[Rubix_Cube]

I am now wondering what to do...

Wish I could find out for sure so I can start buying things to fix it to make me feel better!!! Its rather annoying!!!

[pyro]

I'm watching this thread very closely.
I had a coolant issue after a rebuild on my 180.
It would suck through the entire coolant system in 25 miles and steam would come out of the overflow bottle. :wack:
I replaced the stat with a nismo one. Then I removed it completely.
I bled the system up 5 or 6 times at various angles, both up and down hill (as well as on the flat), over periods of many, many hours, both with fans/AC on and off.
Then I replaced the rad, with a koyo one and did it all again.
We never did find out what it was. I bought a new engine and that's worked, perfectly, ever since. :confused:

Wasn't the head, though. Wasn't the HG, either. Water pump was brand new.

[Rubix_Cube]

Pyro, thats serious. I only loose between 500ml-1lt on a 25 Mile drive. If it can clean out a rad thats a cracked head or block type issue!

[pyro]

Head was checked out and is fine.
Could have been a block issue, certainly but it was rebuilt for big ends and hadn't overheated prior to the rebuild.
It was all very mysterious. :wack:

[Rubix_Cube]

Yeah.... joys of nissan ownership eh ¬_¬

[TrIcK^]

Have you had a leak down test done?

[Rubix_Cube]

What would this tell me? It still wont determine my actual cause.

[donrevey]

silly question have you checked the rad is hot all over when its been running for a while?
with no obvious cold spots

[Rubix_Cube]

Yes.... these have all been checked. You can smell coolant in the exhaust fumes.

[redsx94!]

If you could smell coolant surely there should be some steam.

[El @]

That could be a cracked head, same as in pyro case.

[Rubix_Cube]

Yeah buts its not LOADS, its very subtle. You can just get the faint smell. and its not boiling the coolant quickly. Its something VERY subltle.

Will see what happens when I get it apart.

[Easy007]

Maybe you need to start having things Xray'd to find the cause or just get another bare engine :shrugs:

[Rubix_Cube]

LOL Easy, thats an extreme :)

I could do with a bare engine but they dont seem to appear that often Easy :(

[thehats13]

get one of those kits that you suck exhaust fumes through this kinda dyed water and if changes coulor the coolant is definetly being burned in the cylinders cant remember the name of the tool tho sorry bud

[TrIcK^]

I though the leak down was for this pupose? Forgive me if Im wrong though and good luck :thumbs: Just checked and its cylinders only :(

[Rubix_Cube]

Hat there's no need its obvious that its burning in the bores. :)

Trick, a leak down test I'm sure just just checks that your rings/valves seal correctly.

[Kev]

Can u drop it here for a week or so Wullie?

Just so i/we can try a few things mate??

Its ok, i wont let E1 boy near it:wack:

[Rubix_Cube]

Kev, I sure can. I was gonna sweet talk you buy saying I'll come help clear out your garage if you like LOL

When were you thinking?

[Kev]

Anytime after this weekend mate.
Got ur text btw, but battery now dead.

Few little things i wanna try to 100% prove its the engine burning it.... and go from there.

[Rubix_Cube]

Well Dangerous Dave could smell the antifreeze from the back of my car :lol:

As I've said, if you need hand clearing some space just gimmie a txt. My life is Xbox and Work.... sometimes with the the odd Good Lady thrown in there :)

[Kev]

Nah i need to "Kieran proof" the garage myself mate, but thanks for the offer:thumbs:

[Rubix_Cube]

Its there if you need it, just gimmi a txt. I like organising! LOL

[tinnysteve]

Kev, I sure can. I was gonna sweet talk you buy saying I'll come help clear out your garage if you like LOL

When were you thinking?

that is his garage cleared :p

drive way must be getting lonely needs a new lodger another lovely sr;)

[Rubix_Cube]

LOL Starting to break more than CA's eh Steve ;)

[tinnysteve]

LOL Starting to break more than CA's eh Steve ;)

i dont know about that i have broke 1 sr but 2 ca's

[T.J]

any update i am interested to see what the cause is

[Rubix_Cube]

Its now in Kev's hands... when I get updates I shall post them up.

[2BOBRocket]

has the car had car had liners fitted wullie? its pos a liner has dropped if it has no collar at the top seen this happen before how is the afr it would show up on this if it was bore related

[Rubix_Cube]

Afr's were showing 10.5 just before I notices this trouble. Its over sized pistons so I'll assume its got aftermarket liners. We'll find out soon enough when Kev gets the head off it.

[big_mac]

any updates?
my guess is the liners dropped :(

[Rubix_Cube]

Still nothing. Gonna swing by Kev's. He has been working all week and not had a chance to get a look at her.

[Kev]

hoping to crack her off tomorrow, so should know then

[Rubix_Cube]

Sweet Kev, want me up for a hand/hindrance? LOL

[Kev]

Up to you mate:)

Should be out from bout 11am till bout 3 id imagine

[Rubix_Cube]

Source of my problem found!!

HKS Metal Head Gasket went :ghey: between 3 and 4. Pictures can be found in my project through.