View Full Version : whats with the big ends
cashflewn
19-07-2001, 19:47
before i found this forum ive never heard of an s13 needing big ends,the most common complaint with these engines is those stupid exhaust manifold gaskets and head gaskets if you run high boost.i am begining to wonder wether some of these air filters are actualy filtering the air properly leading to dirty oil.i notice some of you are using fully synthetic oil and still having to do your ends.my car only has its oil changed at 6000 miles and i use cheap semi synthetic (7.98 5litres)its done about 160000miles now ive done 110000of those and i cane the crap out of it all the time.maybe im just lucky ive got a good engine but i think theres something wrong somewhere for all these ends to go.
now thats tempting fate they will probebly go tonight and you lot will just laugh and say told you so
kerfumph
19-07-2001, 21:21
Is it standard? If the car was reliable at 200+hp by just uping the boost, why did'nt nissan do it? Ans, it shags them!!
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Graham
90' s13
Christian
19-07-2001, 21:47
Hi!
Methinks the common problem with the big ends on these engines could be because of the relatively small amount of oil they have.
If you don't always look after your dipstick-readout http://300zx.co.uk/200sx/ubb/smile.gif then you get into trouble.
It's easy to have oil levels below where the dipstick reaches. Simply trash it and don't look for oil around 2000km... there you go
Only a thought though
Chris
Very strange, quite a few of the ca18 imports in the Brisbane s13 club, including NA ones are suffering from bad bearings. I havnt seen any failures on the SR20 ones yet (apart from blown pistons from too much boost/leaning out)
Bruce
A 10+ year old motor NOW beginging a hard performance life without freshening at least the bottom end ? .... risky business.
I know of many ca18det with NO motor related probs since new. On the other end, I've seen a few that have been making 350+ hp for a while without issue.
I know a guy that has put out over 440hp to the wheels with his ca daily driven street car, and runs low 12s quarter mile "detuned".
I don't feel the motor is any less capable than any other performance motor.. if you are sensible about your approach.
hello - new here....
i have a similar problem - i re-built the bottom-end of my engine (inc. new big-ends and mains) and everything was fine for a couple of months
stupidly though, i let the oil get low (small leak) to the point where i noticed the oil light flick on going round corners yesterday - after a short motorway drive home the big-ends are now noisy and of course the turbo (which was also new) is showing serious (smokey) signs of oil starvation
to be honest i was surprised - there was a good 2 ltrs of oil left in there ;-))
i was going to take the sump off tomorrow and the replace the b/end shells - but is this likely to be a waste of time ??
am i realistically going to have to take the engine out and replace the main shells as well ?? i can't see how the mains could come out unscathed, although i was surprised the b/ends were damaged so quickly without the oil light coming on - damn dipstick !
any reassurance from similar experiences ??
(or just laugh at me if you prefer)
andy
[This message has been edited by andey (edited 20-07-2001).]
Andey,
Similar story - my turbo had been burning oil for a while, and I always topped it up to what I thought was the limit. The turbo finally gave up and blew (in a pretty spectacular way), and I've just (30mins ago) picked it up with the new turbo fitted.
Now, as soon as I started the engine you can hear a horrible rattling, which sounds more like small-ends than the bottom of the engine. It wasn't there before, so either the garage have thrashed before checking the oil, or (more likey) I haven't been filling it up properly. I've always hated that dipstick...
Who fitted your turbo?
I would throw it back at them and ask what the hell they did to your engine.
[This message has been edited by Mannie (edited 20-07-2001).]
Brucemec?? hey man, i live in the uk and just got back from the lions rugby tour of austrailia, brisbane/gold coast was our first location, man, it is a fantastic place, i've gotta say i was in awe at the amount of performance jap import weaponry around there, the streets at night were a race haven, everyone i met and spoke to was relly cool also.
just sayin i'm well impressed!!
matt
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DRIFTING?? I don't believe i was, officer....
Mannie,
Local south London garage fitted it - they're usually very reliable. Very strange how it definitely wasn't doing it when I dropped it off (car hadn't been driven after the turbo went due to the HUGE amount of smoke it was making..., and they apparently didn't drive it because of this), but I don't think there's much I can do about it now.
hi ph -
i would check the noise out quite quickly -
i would seem a little unusual for the b/ends to be noisy immediately from cold - normally they get noisy as the engine warms up and the oil gets thinner - small ends are rarely a problem
if the bottom end is worn you can significantly loose oil pressure and wear out a new turbo very quickly (i've done this myself in a matter of weeks)
what did the garage say the noise was ?
take care,
andy
[This message has been edited by andey (edited 20-07-2001).]
Andy,
When I say straight away, I mean after a couple of minutes or so of driving. It definitely sounds like a bearing problem, but not really in the bottom of the engine. Garage agreed on this, but I've never heard one with the big ends going, so it could well be that. We'll see...
My big ends were totally knackered yet it only sounded like top end...cost me a head gasket set for my trouble! I got loads of people to listen to the noise and all said more top than bottom.
And the noise only started after Nissan had it! One day it wasn't there, the next day it was.
I'm almost an expert on this big end thing now...cost me a fortune and 2 months without my S13 mind you....
Kenny_s13
20-07-2001, 23:36
maybe you should check and see what type of oil they are using. call me mad but I use unipart red oil in mine and its fine. sometimes if the garage is using something like Castrol maganatec, the 200's do not like it and rattle after the service. Same reason not to flush the engine on a high mileage car , unless you are really sure of the history and engine. a couple of minutes of the thin stuff and its goodbye engine hello ugly rattle. Take it from one who knows.
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1990 S13 std.green/grey 2 tone
15" Smiths Twisters
BIG K&N air filter
Pine Smelly tree(u know it makes sense)
kerfumph
20-07-2001, 23:49
I don't know why, but you are deffinatly (sorry my spelling has shat itself recently)on the right track there.
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Graham
90' s13
I AM TEH BOTTOM END MASTAH WIHT AN ENGNIE ON MY FLROO.
not that it drives you insane or anything.
cadburys man
22-07-2001, 02:15
Kenny, how come you don't recommend engine flushing a high mileage 200?
The reason i ask is because i am about to change the oil and filter on my 200 in a couple of weeks and i was going to use engine flush.(The car has done 102,000)
Anyone got any recommendations on oil??
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Nissan 200SX (S13)
K&N Induction Kit
Boost Guage
ND Stage 1 Chip
ND Upgraded Actuator
ND Cold Plugs
ND Oil Feeder Pipe
Bailey Motorsport Evo Dump Valve
Blitz FATT Type-S Turbo Timer
On a high mileage motor, the crud thats built up is keeping everything nice and tight. Cleaning it away leaves tiny gaps that increase wear rate, and will find a weak spot sooner or later.
well i went ahead and changed the big-ends yesterday and the engine seems to be fine now -
i'm still puzzled how they could wear without the engine oil light coming on - even though there was only a couple of litres of oil in there the pickup is at the bottom of the sump - surely it's either picking up or it's not ?
i wonder if it could be possible that no oil is being pumped to them (or only partially), but they're just being lubricated by being dipped into the oil every stroke ?????
getting the sump off was not easy - the manual said raise the engine on it's mounts a little but i had to lift it out until it touched the bulkhead and even then had to remove the oil pick-up before it would (just!) slide off
sigh!
Kristian
23-07-2001, 13:23
Your big ends can quite literally just go. It doesnt generally start with small noises etc. This is also a problem with Imprezas. They have very weak bearings and I have read many times on www.scoobynet.co.uk (http://www.scoobynet.co.uk) of their problems. apparently they can just go out for a quick drive and then either they start knocking or when they get up the next day and start the car, hey presto they're goosed. so we're not alone, although my cars tuned with HKS Hiper muffler, hks FCD and AFR, HKS super power flow, Hybrid turbo and runnign at 1 bar, just got an EVO VI intercooler to fit aswell, and it shows no signs of bearing wear after 107000 miles. But i suppose it could be just around the corner. The secret is oil and plenty of it. I've spent most of my cars life with it over full. It doesnt generally do any damage but you can get smoke as the high oil level prevents the easy return of oil to the sump and oil is forced through the turbo oil seals (weakest link) and you get smoke. not that much though and if it stops the engine wearing then whats the odd puff of smoke between friends??
Kristian
23-07-2001, 13:24
Your big ends can quite literally just go. It doesnt generally start with small noises etc. This is also a problem with Imprezas. They have very weak bearings and I have read many times on www.scoobynet.co.uk (http://www.scoobynet.co.uk) of their problems. apparently they can just go out for a quick drive and then either they start knocking or when they get up the next day and start the car, hey presto they're goosed. so we're not alone, although my cars tuned with HKS Hiper muffler, hks FCD and AFR, HKS super power flow, Hybrid turbo and runnign at 1 bar, just got an EVO VI intercooler to fit aswell, and it shows no signs of bearing wear after 107000 miles. But i suppose it could be just around the corner. The secret is oil and plenty of it. I've spent most of my cars life with it over full. It doesnt generally do any damage but you can get smoke as the high oil level prevents the easy return of oil to the sump and oil is forced through the turbo oil seals (weakest link) and you get smoke. not that much though and if it stops the engine wearing then whats the odd puff of smoke between friends?? I agree with most though, the dipstick is awful and any slight slopes change the oil reading quite dramatically!
>>how come you don't recommend engine flushing a high mileage 200?
>>The reason i ask is because i........
it's usually best not to flush turbo engines - it's inevitable you leave some of the agent behind which then dilutes the new oil - turbos can be very sensitive to this
if you do flush it i would do at least 1 or 2 oil changes with cheap oil and run for 5 mins each before the final filter and oil change
andy
gonna put my engine bac together tomorrow hopefully it ill run. It cost me £180 to regrindin the shaft and for the shell bearings is that un-usually high? New oil pump £75 Luk clutch £140 labour £???. Im putting castrol magnetx + lucas (america) additive in it was recommened by my mechanic.
Also the shagged shell bearing was flattened about 5mm out each side Question is my conrod shagged too (hope not)
Total cost so far £700 Ahhhhhhhh!
My crankshaft was £200 to regrind including main shells and bearings.
New oil pump £69+VAT My mechanic almost insisted I get a con rod too..He said "The amount of wear on the shells means the conrod is getting a hammering and will most likely have bent it."
My crankshaft was also bent coz of this...hence main bearing regrind. My shells (3rd cylinder only)were completely shot to pieces mind you.
Cost £500 so far...labour looks like £300 - £350....
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91 S13
De catted
Rebuilt, took apart, rebuilt again (thanks Nissan!) Go-faster thin paint job. Saving up for smelly tree.
Took the opportunity to get the timing belt done too. £800 odd quid well spent? Time will tell.
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91 S13
De catted
Rebuilt, took apart, rebuilt again (thanks Nissan!) Go-faster thin paint job. Saving up for smelly tree.
Well my mechanic says that 9 outta 10 times the conrod will be damaged on the inside dia. of conrod on shaft, rather than it bending?? to measure this u need a bore guage The boys that ground the shaft say the inside of the conrod should be 48.013mm and the measured dist. up and down = 47.94mm and left to right = 47.78mm. I dont no what too do. Change conrod open the head/ open a can of worms, or risk it...... help!
Well my mechanic says that 9 outta 10 times the conrod will be damaged on the inside dia. of conrod on shaft, rather than it bending?? to measure this u need a bore guage The boys that ground the shaft say the inside of the conrod should be 48.013mm and the measured dist. up and down = 47.94mm and left to right = 47.78mm. I dont no what too do. Change conrod open the head/ open a can of worms, or risk it...... help!
kerfumph
27-07-2001, 11:42
Yes 48.013 is the top limit,not sure how yours managed to get smaller at every 90 degrees? at 47.78 if you managed to get a bearing in it, there would be no clearance at all= big shag up. Get the con rod rechecked.
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Graham
90' s13
Trust me, I know everything.
My mechanics done a runner. Cant get a hold of him, hes the one that measured it. I was thinking it couldnt get smaller. Is he takin the piss or what? Will my car ever be alive again! what sorto time do i need to run in the shaft before normal drivin?
Join the club..maybe your mechanic is the same guy doing mine!
And everyone said that if your shells have rotated around the con rod at all its bu**ered.
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91 S13
De catted
Rebuilt, took apart, rebuilt again (thanks Nissan!) Go-faster thin paint job. Saving up for smelly tree.
Jeffers_S13
27-07-2001, 19:19
The saga of the big-ends...
Mine went not long ago, well its was actually only No.3, the shells were hammered flat like someone else mentioned earlier, SE did all the work. Crank regrind and new oversized shells all round, Pete was concerned that the conrod might be knackered and warned me that it might need to be replaced aswell. When I picked the car up he said they had measured it and it was fine, I hope he was right cos I've been giving the car some real pig recently, it is running very well at the minute, just like when I first bought it. When my bearings started knocking I was VERY careful with the car and gave it absolutely no stick at all, I drove it below 2000 rpm everywhere, although the only travelling I actually really did, was to SE...
Also, on the matter of running in, Pete suggested only 100 miles for running in then do as you like, I believe he really does know his stuff as SE obviously deal with a lot of 200's.
James
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