Experianced Hill Climbers - advice wanted

[shaboy]

Hi all, I'm hoping to start hill climbing in 2009 but could do with some advice. Now I've never done hill climbing or any motor sports before so I was thinking hill climb would be the best 'budget' option to get me started.

My plan was to enter into the modified production category using a Fiesta 1.6 xr2i that, if my plan goes accordingly, I could then use for stock hatch racing in 2010 (if i get good enough at driving). However, I have an S13 sat in my mums garage that I was going to rebuild the engine for early in the new year which could also be used (although a fair bit of welding would be needed on the shell/chassis)

Anyway, my main question for those that have done hill climbing or driven on the tracks is which would be the best option for a first time racer:

1 - Festa xr2i, estimate I'll run it at 130-40 bhp, as good a suspension set up as I can budget for, front brake upgrade, stripped as much as possible, possible some lite weight body pannels and then all the safety equipment that is required.

2 - S13, probably running stage 1 to begin with, due to the extra money that I'll need to spend to even get it into a road worthy condition other, less money will be spent in other areas but it will be fuuly stripped again and have the safety equipment but less money will be spent on the suspension set up and all the body will be left standard.

I know I also have to take into consideration the running costs/repairs and that the xr2i will be the best option in this respect and it would be better/easier for a novice. Also might have a problem finding stuff for the S13, mainly if a roll cage is needed that's approved by FIA or MSA, I'm not aware os an off-the-shelf one that is, although might be wrong, which'll mean custom jobby!

Would also like opinions on the size of cars used, I know all ranges are used but for a first timer would a smaller car be better due to the tightness of some of the tracks?

Any other help and advice you can give to a novice will also be well apriciated.

Thanks very much :thumbs:

Edit: just thought that'd I could always rebuild the engine and then stick this in a new shell that has already been cleaned up so that might save some money

[CNHSS1]

Hiya :wave:
lots of questions, but i'll have a go.
either car is suitable really, we compete against huge skylines, Aston Martins etc and little dinky MG Midgets, Pug 106s etc etc.
to narrow the choice a bit better, i guess it'll depend where you intend to compete and in which championship. if you are local to a particular venue, and intend on doing all your events there, choose the car accordingly. if its say Harewood hill, its pretty fast and open so teh s13 will be great, but no better than the XR2 really.
if you intend on doing a multi venue series such as a sprint and hillclimb championship, you will be on tight sprint circuits such as Curborough one weekend, then Anglesey or brands Hatch another, with a variety of hillclimb venues as well so car size wont matter.

as for class choice, ModProd does allow huge scope for modifying the car which can leave you playing with some highly modded cars. in your first season you'll probably not care as you'll be enjoying yourself too much:) but it may be easier to run in a roadgoing class with very few mods initially. you will spend less, have less work to do to prep the car, but have no less fun or no lesser standard of competition believe me.
that said i started in ModProd and have developed the car over the last 8-9years and love it :nod:
both cars are below 2000cc capacity, but the s13 has a trubo so will be seen as a 2500cc car so you will be in the over 2000cc ModProd class, rather than teh uinder 2L in the fiesta. might be worth checking out the local competition in each class before deciding on the car :thumbs:
the fiesta stripped out with cage, decent shocks/springs etc with 140hp will be very rapid whereas the larger, heavier but much more powerful S13 will be slower in the corners but much quicker in sheer grunt.
there must be an MSA S13 cage as Muttley or Pitbull on here compete in a circuit series (do a search)
best advice is to go along to an event or as its the off season join the local club that organises the events at your local hill. they will be mega helpful, and in the case of the fiesta, may well even have a member thats competed in the same car and can give you specific setup advice for the car and venue.

anything else, just ask me :sxoc:

Craig

[CNHSS1]

just seen your Bristol based, mayeb worth speaking to Bristol Pegasus Motor Club who organise the Castle Combe sprints and also hillclimbs iirc, or get in touch with Gurston Down (wiltshire), Wiscombe Park (further south from you but not far) or Prescott (venue of 2008 SXOC weekender) or Shelsley Walsh.

[shaboy]

Thanks for that Craig, somevery helpful info there, i'll deffiantly be looking into those clubs/names you've mentioned above :thumbs:

my plan is too visit as many vanues as possible but the local ones to bristol are the ones i'm more likley to attend. i like your thoughts about the standard prod class, i'm not too bothered about how well i do (although obviously if i don;t come first in every race i won't be happy :cry:) but standard would defrfiantly help out a lot with the cost issues and i think you're right in saying i'll have just as much fun.

I'm not too clued up on the regs yet, need to join a club and get my hands on a blue book, so didn't realise a tubby would increase the class spec so cheers for that

looks like i'll prob go with the festa now though, since the S13 has already been fully stripped so that might well become the project for 2010 :D

so soon in the new year i'll start shopping for a decent car :smash:

rick

[shaboy]

just another thing, was thinking a festa for cheapness (of the car and parts) but just been having a look an might well go for a civic or crx, would the fact that they're vtec have an effect on the class they're in?

[Evilchap]

I doubt vtec would make much difference... try thinking a little outside the box though ;)

When at Prescott Hill I noticed a few 205s on the notice board for sale, they make great hill-climb cars I think :)

[CNHSS1]

looked at our '09 calendar and im only really down your way september and october for Wiscombe, Gurston Down, Prescott, Shelsley and Castle Combe.

if you fancy travelling further afield for a watch, aprils Aintree, May Anglesesy 2 dayer, MIRA, June Harewood and poss Goodwood, August is Curborough and Loton (my fave hill :cool:)

tuned CVHs are cheap as chips, often get ex circuit racer or singles seater engines which would be good and for the price of a decent turbo for the 200 :wack:
id stick with the fiesta as cheap tuning bits are ten-a-penny whereas jap stuff always has 'Jap brand image' tax :rolleyes:
VTEC has no effect on capacity class just if you have a turbo'd or supercharged car theres a percentage equivalency added.

get a few events under your belt next season and then build a heavy-hitter 200 from then on. a prepped fiesta will sell easiliy enough too, whereas most on here seem to find breaking 200s is the only way to claw back the cash put into them unfortunately.

join a club, get your National speed 'B' licence which gets you the Blue Book for 09 and away you go :)

[shaboy]

cheers again for the info :notworthy :sxoc: will be joining a club in the new year and sorting a licence out as soon as i've read more into it (when i get the bible)

did think about a 205, would love one but they're fetchin quite a bit now for a decent one, had a 1.1 205 for my first car and it was brill :D if a decent one comes up for a fair price might well go for it, but if not, it looks like its back to the original plan of the festa :)

will deffiantly try to get to as many events as possible even if i can't enter them, i've also volenteered to marshal at combe so we'll see how that turns out, should mean i'll get to see plenty of action and hopefully get talking to people :nod:

[donnylad]

im also looking to get into sprinting and ive never done it before, ive been on a few trackdays around curborough, very good track, even crashed on that final corner whilst passangering in a ferrari into the hedge :cry:

i have been looking at things like pug 205, saxo VTR's, 106 GTI's etc. but ive also taken a like to the little locost or westfirld type cars, though the cheaper versions i must admit due to the cost.

i think i will be putting this off untill 2010 tho, next year i will buy a trailer, towbar fitten to the laguna, and get my car.

ive looked at a few cars on the net but im in no rush so waiting for a real bargain!

[shaboy]

yeah i'm going have to sort out transport possibly, have thought about drive to/from in the race car, bit risky though :wack:

will try sort out trailer and a 'tow bitch', got the problem of taking the towing driving test as well :annoyed:

i've thought about a 106 gti or ralley, thinking anything small and cheap would be a good idea, had a thought about an MX5, but there's the afore mentioned expense of using a Jap car.

Deffiantly thinking i'm going to keep it to a 1.6 engine at most now, till i find my feet as it were ;)

[donnylad]

uyou dont allways have to take an extra test. there are certain guidelines hat you have to be within. i did speak to dvla but my girlfriend through the information away. but on my car i can tow a trailer that coems in at around 400 KG and a car weighing like 700-800KG. without any extra test. im on the new style licence aswell being 21 years of age.

[shaboy]

well i've not look into it myself yet, was just told if you were towing over 750kg you had to take one, guess that might be the weight of the car, not the car and trailer. if i don't need another test that'll defo be a brucey bonus

[charlay]

just to add to it, msa specification roll cages need no certification, just relevantly drilled inspection holes. and Fabricage have a cheap off the shelf 6 pt, as do apex(cusco supplied modified safety21) and a guy called gtirtrack on driftworks can make you one(either use yours as the template for his product, or may already have the off the shelves ready) only needs to be built to a standard, and sadly/(or fortunatley if your pushing the limit) i've seen bendy front ended, undersized cuscostyle cages go through scrutineering many times

[donnylad]

thought id bump this old thread, ive gone and bought a pug 205 GTI 1.9, leaving it as it is at the minute but i will soon be stripping it all out and starting the weight reduction on it etc :)

you got anything yet shaboy?

[razza987]

Hi guys, I started sprinting in 2006, in a Mk1 MR2. I then competed with Craig (CNHSS1) in the Scimitar Speed Championship in 2007. Last year I started circuit racing in the Scimitar.

I have a few comments to make :)

In my opinion, an XR2i is not the best choice, mainly due to the fact that you'll be competing in the 1400-2000cc category, giving away 400cc to the top capacity. This means you've already got to make up a gap before you've even started modding anything! Yes it'll be cheap, you'll still have a great time, but just consider that you'll stand no chance of getting near the front runners. That class is dominated by 1.9 205s.

I would also recommend choosing a vehicle that has the correct layout if you want to race eventually ie. if you want to race the S13, then buy something RWD now, so you learn the driving techniques for that layout. Or just use the S13 now, but they're a bit of a barge and I'd recommend something more nimble. Lighter cars use smaller/cheaper tyres, use less fuel, require smaller/cheaper brakes etc etc

When I competed in 2007, I entered 10 events and drove to and from every one of them in the Scimitar, even after crashing at Goodwood :wack: You will make compromises though...
http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=304422&highlight=scimitar

This is all my opinion/experience, not gospel :thumbs: Craig's been doing it a lot longer, so can give more accurate info.
Raz

[razza987]

With reference to towing, if you have a "new" licence (post 1998?) then you are limited to a total weight (tow car+trailer+load) of 3500kg, as long as you don't exceed the max towing weight of the tow car. If the total weight is over 3500kg, then you will need "the test" :)

[GmasterT]

In my great (:wack: ) experience in hill climbing... turbo bad (so S13 is out) xr2... meh, but start with a car with a good engine, cvh's are gash, either a 2000cc nova/corsa (infact mk2 Astra GTE is not really heavier than the Nova, handling can be good with work) or Mi16 205 (or 309, not much in it either)

:)

[razza987]

In my great (:wack: ) experience in hill climbing... turbo bad (so S13 is out) xr2... meh, but start with a car with a good engine, cvh's are gash, either a 2000cc nova/corsa (infact mk2 Astra GTE is not really heavier than the Nova, handling can be good with work) or Mi16 205 (or 309, not much in it either)

:)
The 2 litre Nova/Corsa are non-standard engine swaps and that puts you in Sports Libre, a completely different class. The Mi16 engined 205s are a bone of contention at the moment... :indiff:

[shaboy]

Well I havn't started doing anything yet, got an mr2 to get on the road first, then might see about getting something sorted throughout feb, really going to try and find a shared garage/workshop where i can work on/store the car.

I originally was going for a 1.6 xr2i because i thought the class was 1400-1600 for some reason and therefore i'd be at the top of it. reliabiltity/cheapness is going to be a factor (didn't know the cvh wasn't a good engine) like i've said above (i think) if i could find a 1.9 205 gti within my budget i'd go for that, thinking by my first outing, the over all budget will prob be around 2000 pound, but this has too include the car, repairs and maintenance, getting it race ready, servicing, tyres, etc. i should be able to save throughout the year meaning i could start in the standard production car class and always move to the modified class at a later date (if at all for this year)

been spending quite a bit of time looking through ebay amd other internet sites looking for inspiration, however, going have to re-look since i now know the right engine classes, been looking at bmw's and others, might even start thinking about MK2 MR2 N/A, any opinions :confused:

been waiting for a mate to bring me the 2008 blue book, which i want to look over before i comit my self to anything (but hopefully be getting that next week)

edit: just thought, going to have to put some extra saving in to buy all the race gear, helmet, suit, etc, since i don't have any.

[razza987]

might even start thinking about MK2 MR2 N/A, any opinions :confused:

Very heavy, a 205 will run rings around it at somewhere like Curborough, or any hillclimb for that matter! Expensive to tune as well.

Go for the lightest car you can: 205, Saxo VTS/106 GTi, Tipo 16v (!), Clio 16v, Honda CRX etc etc otherwise you're just fighting gravity :thumbs:

[shaboy]

well, after some more ebay searching/price checking and all the advice you chaps have given me :thumbs: think its gonna have to be a 205, i've always wanted one and you guys have convinced me that i should go for one :notworthy

next step is to find staorage/work place then hunt down a car :D