View Full Version : FWD or RWD? Which is best?
There seem to be a few post recently along the lines of - Which is best, this scrabbly shopping trolley or a S13/14.
To my mind a serious performance car can only have RWD (maybe 4WD in a few instances). Anything FWD is just tarted up scrabbly rubbish.
Don't mean to be controversial ( :D ) so let the good men and women who make up the SXOC board decide.
jackadoodledo
19-04-2003, 20:25
i think the best way to look at it is 'name the cars'
rwd
ferrari, lambo's, porches, f1, f3000, b*w m3, m5, etc (sx's!)
fwd
punto's etc;) :p
dobergoose
19-04-2003, 20:46
Had this arguement with my mates loads of times, and win it by asking, How many front wheel drive supercars, F1 or proper drag cars are there? (pretty much what jackadoodledo said)
Front wheel drives only more common these days because of economy, less transmission loss, interior space, wet weather handling and its safer for the masses.
if you have to ask this question
you have joined the wrong bulletin board:D :D :D
voodoo_melon
19-04-2003, 21:27
:eek:
Come on, own up, who voted for FWD? :confused:
shadowninja
19-04-2003, 21:29
Originally posted by bigtone
if you have to ask this question
you have joined the wrong bulletin board:D :D :D
:D :D my sentiments exactly
Originally posted by voodoo_melon
:eek:
Come on, own up, who voted for FWD? :confused:
Ripper! (the artist formely known as Catherine) :rolleyes: ;) :D :D :D :D :D
Pauly_Boy
20-04-2003, 03:22
Wheres the 'I love 1 wheel 'robin relent' style drive' option
Hours of fun :rolleyes:
ScoobyDoo
20-04-2003, 09:50
Wheres the button for me?
All 4WD :-
Nissan Skyline / Lancia Integrale / Audi Quatro / Escort Cosworth / Mitsibushi Evo / Toyota Celica GT4 / Nissan Pulsar GTI-R / Lamborghini Murcielago
Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
Wheres the button for me?
All 4WD :-
Nissan Skyline / Lancia Integrale / Audi Quatro / Escort Cosworth / Mitsibushi Evo / Toyota Celica GT4 / Nissan Pulsar GTI-R / Lamborghini Murcielago
on scoobynet.:D
FWD is better for people who don't know, or are unable, to drive properly. Or just don't want to know.
RWD is better for people who drive as a part of the car rather than a passenger in it, due to much better handling etc.
That's my thought anyway.
dobergoose
20-04-2003, 10:48
Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
Wheres the button for me?
All 4WD :-
Nissan Skyline / Lancia Integrale / Audi Quatro / Escort Cosworth / Mitsibushi Evo / Toyota Celica GT4 / Nissan Pulsar GTI-R / Lamborghini Murcielago
Your buttons on the gravel and ice.:D :D :D
marty_t3
20-04-2003, 10:50
All except the 4wd Lambo's which are slower than their RWD counterparts :D
marty_t3
20-04-2003, 10:51
Scooby.... haven't you missed something from your list??? :D
ScoobyDoo
20-04-2003, 10:53
Originally posted by bigtone
on scoobynet.:D
But its more fun here :D
Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
But its more fun here :D
nice one mate:D i have noticed it's mor fun:p
my mate keep's sending me link's cos he is
on it all the time :rolleyes:
THE ONLY REASON we have front wheel drive is because manufacturing costs are lower, the engine gearbox and ALL running gear go into the body as one unit, whereas FR cars, tend to have lots of other bits too, its all about economies of scale (Ill stop or this will get very boring).
Originally posted by Vez
THE ONLY REASON we have front wheel drive is because manufacturing costs are lower, the engine gearbox and ALL running gear go into the body as one unit, whereas FR cars, tend to have lots of other bits too, its all about economies of scale (Ill stop or this will get very boring).
to late zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz z
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz z
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz z
:D :D :D :D :D
Going back to the 4x4 v's rwd, i remember AndyF showing me a video of a load of tuned cars racing round a track in japan called something like "the last of soon to be out of production greats"
Skyline R34, RX7, Supra, S15.....and some others I think....
The S15 started last........
and the race was ended after the S15 was pulling out a lead, and Mr skyline tried an imposible breaking manouver and punted the S15 into the gravel......
On qualifercation times (fastest started the race last) the S15 out paced everything by at least 0.5 seconds :D
Martin T
20-04-2003, 13:52
I would kill for an S15. Well maybe not but I want one more than a 3rd gen Rx7 right now.
ScoobyDoo
20-04-2003, 13:53
Originally posted by Vez
Going back to the 4x4 v's rwd, i remember AndyF showing me a video of a load of tuned cars racing round a track in japan called something like "the last of soon to be out of production greats"
Skyline R34, RX7, Supra, S15.....and some others I think....
The S15 started last........
and the race was ended after the S15 was pulling out a lead, and Mr skyline tried an imposible breaking manouver and punted the S15 into the gravel......
On qualifercation times (fastest started the race last) the S15 out paced everything by at least 0.5 seconds :D
Not that I want to start 4WD vs RWD but..... I dont drive to work using a smooth track, its twisty country lanes with leaves that fall on the road, here Id rather the 4WD :D
[Puts on flame proof suit ;) ]
http://www.westernsafety.com/900RSS.JPG
Ashworth
20-04-2003, 16:44
Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
[B]Not that I want to start 4WD vs RWD but..... I dont drive to work using a smooth track, its twisty country lanes with leaves that fall on the road, here Id rather the 4WD [B]
i lift share with a guy who drives a scooby. Great cars, very fast in the real world. but as far as entertainment goes - he never gets it accidentally sideways and laughs out loud at 7:30 in the morning like I do in my car....
smiles per mile = RWD
out and out twisty speed = 4wd
marty_t3
20-04-2003, 18:39
smiles per mile = RWD
out and out twisty speed = 4wd
Couldn't have put it better myself :D
dobergoose
20-04-2003, 19:28
Do you think the poll results would be the same on a corsa/nova what ever shopping trolley forum:D :D :D
ChrisGee
20-04-2003, 20:26
Now now, theres nout wrong with scrabble power!
Both are cool if you ask me, fwd suits lower to mid powered cars fine :) But i do accept the fact the rwd is the daddy when you gets over 200bhp ISH (before some1 moans at me)
as for 4wd, well...... i wouldnt like to be loosing 100bhp just tho the transmission thanks :eek:
Chris_Gee
Scrabble powered Civic and proud!
Originally posted by ChrisGee
as for 4wd, well...... i wouldnt like to be loosing 100bhp just tho the transmission thanks :eek:
So....take the average 4x4 2.0i Mondeo
135bhp - 100bhp which leaves....35bhp at the wheels! :D
sroberts
20-04-2003, 20:43
Integra Type-R... I wanted one of these over the 200, point to point driving ripped the 200 into shreds, but there owners club was shite and hostile.
Sadly some of the best handling cars are FWD
Si :)
Martin T
20-04-2003, 21:08
For a car to lose 100 BHP at the transmission, even 4wd, I'd have thought that the pwoer figure would need to be nearer 350-400BHP
marty_t3
20-04-2003, 21:08
Sadly some of the best handling cars are FWD
I assume you're talking about cars with less that 250hp :D
sroberts
20-04-2003, 21:10
EVO rated the Teg Type-R as the best handling car they had ever driven... and what other cars have they reviewed ;)
Si :)
Originally posted by Ant
So....take the average 4x4 2.0i Mondeo
135bhp - 100bhp which leaves....35bhp at the wheels! :D
:confused: Didn't realise you could get a 4x4 Mondeo :eek:
Except the Jaguar X type :D
marty_t3
20-04-2003, 21:34
sroberts...
It would also be fair to say that the mini will outhandle most cars.... i still don't want one (another one i mean).
Though seriously.... i was in my mates teg-R when he first bought it. On one particular stretch of uphill dual carriageway my relatively standard S13 got to the top pulling over 10mph faster than the integra.... difference was... i had to scrub 25mph to get round the bend at the top.... my mate just kept his foot to the floor and sailed round.
Originally posted by Wak
:confused: Didn't realise you could get a 4x4 Mondeo :eek:
Yup, but they're quite rare. :)
voodoo_melon
20-04-2003, 22:14
Originally posted by ChrisGee
as for 4wd, well...... i wouldnt like to be loosing 100bhp just tho the transmission thanks :eek:
So do Fiat Panda 4x4s have -50bhp at the wheels (50bhp at the flywheel)? :confused: :D
crackdownuk
21-04-2003, 00:05
Sadly some of the best handling cars are FWD
yep very true, Integra Type-R, 306 gti are very good cars and can show a few more powerful car an new set oh heels,
but RWD is where the fun is:p :D
as for the 4WD transmission loses i heard the impreza loses around 78bhp..........but i dont know how true that is:confused:
impreza what a weapon, dont think much can really test it for A-B performance, when i went out in my mates i was shocked and how fast it was, and how shite the brakes where:p
ScoobyDoo
21-04-2003, 02:44
Originally posted by ChrisGee
as for 4wd, well...... i wouldnt like to be loosing 100bhp just tho the transmission thanks :eek:
Chris_Gee
Found this (http://www.g-force-motorsport.co.uk/dyno/rolling%20road%20detail%202.htm) on the net. since these guys run a race team and have 4WD 1800BHP dyno I'll asume they know what they are talking about
Says:
"The average rear wheel drive road car with between 100 and 200 bhp loses about 17% of the engine bhp as transmission losses."
"A reasonable estimate of an average 4wd car's losses might be 22% to 25% of the flywheel power. As a guide we have found using a transmission loss of 24% for Mitsubishi Lancer EVOs and Subaru Imprezas to be very accurate."
Thats only 7% more loss than an average RWD, since my car is rated at 225bhp / 24%, I make that 54bhp loss.
Ive no idea what a FWD car loses in transmission :confused:
Martin T
21-04-2003, 03:09
I know what the losses for an FWD car are - any chance of getting a decent start!:D
Originally posted by Wak
:confused: Didn't realise you could get a 4x4 Mondeo :eek:
Except the Jaguar X type :D
My neighbour has an X Type, but only the scrabbly 2.0. Needless to say I'm constantly taking the piss out of it and the fact it's a ponced up Mondano :D :D :D :D :D
Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
Thats only 7% more loss than an average RWD, since my car is rated at 225bhp / 24%, I make that 54bhp loss.
It does indeed sound like they know what they are talking about, although at the recent scottish RR day a GTI-R (Gee's from the board) lost 100bhp at 300bhp @ fly. i.e. 300@ffly, 200@wheels.
Dunc.
Originally posted by jackadoodledo
i think the best way to look at it is 'name the cars'
rwd
ferrari, lambo's, porches, f1, f3000, b*w m3, m5, etc (sx's!)
fwd
punto's etc;) :p
Steady!
The Punto is a fine piece of kit.
If you sit a chest of drawers on the bonnet it pulls away perfectly every time.......:D :D :D
PS I'm very, VERY tempted to emulate that young man who's Punto is featured in this month's Max Towels. £10,000 on car modifications, including a SUPER metallic bronze colour scheme AND an extra 2 BHP (yes, that's TWO!) over standard from that animal powerplant that is the 1242cc 8v engine........
.......Or perhaps not.:rolleyes: :D :D :D :D
ChrisGee
21-04-2003, 15:20
Well my mate at work who's into his cars and modding has a 4wd Scooby Impreza, every RR day hes done he gets about 240-260 odd a the flywheel and only 130-150 at the wheels :eek:
Granted hes got loads of torque tho :)
ill stick with my 160 at the fly and 135 at the wheelies wich is about 15% losses :D
Tho after my brother sideways antics after last nights mild rain shower rwd is still sweet :)
yay for scrabble power :D
Chris_Gee
marty_t3
21-04-2003, 16:35
Figures given out by Well Lane at the last few Scooby RR days showed 24% loss through the transmission... an EVO that ran on the same day showed similar losses
Originally posted by Ripper
The Punto is a fine piece of kit. I'm very, VERY tempted to emulate that young man who's Punto is featured in this month's Max Towels. £10,000 on car modifications, including a SUPER metallic bronze colour scheme AND an extra 2 BHP (yes, that's TWO!) over standard from that animal powerplant that is the 1242cc 8v engine........
.......Or perhaps not.:rolleyes: :D :D :D :D
Go on, you know you want to :cool: :rolleyes:
MattyGee
21-04-2003, 17:55
Originally posted by ChrisGee
Tho after my brother sideways antics after last nights mild rain shower rwd is still sweet :)
shhhhhhhhh! ;)
it was only a little bit sideways :D :D
dobergoose
21-04-2003, 19:36
I'm all for RWD every time but at the recent scottish RR day I got 283.5bhp at the flywheel and 211 at the wheel, guy reckonned this was high transmission loss for RWD. I did too :rolleyes:
I had just fitted a different gearbox, clutch, and flywheel any reason I should have such high a loss. One of my rear calipers is rubbing slightly as its stopped floating on the mount?
Originally posted by MattyGee
shhhhhhhhh! ;)
it was only a little bit sideways :D :D
Shame on you, behaviour like that is not appreciated on this board m'laddo :mad:
:D ;)
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