project s13 rust aarrghgh.

[alanjuggler]

ok, i've had my S13 4 years and i've never really put much information up about it. so here goes :)

apex meet, back in the day. must have been some time in 2004, i would guess. first one i went to. thanks to stone for the images :thumbs:

http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/sxoc7.jpg

on the way down the slippery slope..

http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/sxoc8.jpg

after some time, a rebuild later and some more money.. it looked like this.

http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/tossresizetwo.jpg

i blew up another engine in the meantime, got it rebuilt, had it resprayed and eventually, it looked like this

http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/respray7.jpg

I then buy Richie's old OS Giken 5 speed box, which cost more than the car :wack: and there it stayed for some time. recently i've been more and more unhappy with the chassis. i'd been thinking about re-shelling, but decided to perservere with this one, philosophy of 'better the devil you know'

and so, to present day. i'd been poking around under the car taking the exhaust front pipe off so i can get my turbo off to be rebuilt and notice a hole in the passenger floor pan, so i do some digging, and lo! it turns out there's very little floorpan left.

before i manage to get to repairing it, TurboDynamics came back with diagnosis on my GT2876R. it wasn't good. result - chronic overspeed causing stress on the turbine blades to the point where they've stretched, had a chunk come flying off which has mullered the rest.

http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/turbobuggered2.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/turbobuggered3.jpg

so TurboDynamics are doing their stuff and getting me a whole new cartridge, new wheels, ceramic coating the exhaust housing and generally making it pretty for me.

today, i attacked the chassis. attack is definitely the right word. i finish the passenger side and then realise i really should be taking pictures of this for posterity :wack:

continued in next post..

[alanjuggler]

what's a really good use for expanding foam? i know, let's put it in a rusty car :mad:

http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/rust1.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/rust2.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/rust3.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/rust4.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/rust5.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/rust6.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/rust7.jpg

my welding is messy, but strong enough :) and that's how i've left it today, tired and a bit pissed off with it. i'm planning to carry on, it's not going to beat me :)

oh and you see all the rusty pidgeon dropping welding underneath the car? that's the chap who tried to do it last time, it looked OK when i inspected it when it had first been done, but it's completely buggered.

[winkle]

keep up the good work mate as it will be worth it.what was the spoiler off?

[alanjuggler]

type-x kouki 180sx, well, fibreglass copy :wack:

[John Bennett]

:eek: Viewing that, the love for my own car has increased 10x :wack:

Was it a company resembling the initials MES who worked on it before? Did they put the foam into the chassis rail? (I take it you cut out that hole to discover it)

[Scougar]

Not sure on the reason for the foam, but do remember people going crazy about making chassis more rigid by putting foam into the sills etc.

BTW.. nice looking car.

Matthew

[xborninthefight]

Yeah ive seen on some JDM vids about some people doing that so they dont know to put a roll cage. If it makes it stronger then its a good thing.
Its also makes me feel better, casue i thought that I had a lot of rust. Good luck with the work, your doing a great job there.

[alanjuggler]

i didnt cut the hole, the hole was there when they put the sodding foam in as it had expanded through it :indiff:

john - sorting this out was pretty much like your avatar, it was just falling out in massive chunks :|

wasn't who you refer to, was a combination of repairs before i got the car and a chap i used last year - his welding is mostly good, it's just he hasn't taken nearly enough rust out unfortunately.

i'm planning to weld the inner sill back to the floor pan on the outside, put a sheet of metal into the inner sill and then re-shape it all. the chassis rails are by and large OK, but i really need to do the front crossmember too.

the expanding foam wasn't used for jdm tyte stiffness, it was just a bad fix for rust to give some strength to it so the rust didn't collapse when poked.

[Scougar]

Why the heck would you want to drive a car that might snap on you? Fix it right, first time :) (Not at you, at the previous owners!)

Good luck with it, looks like quite a job but anything is replaceable!

Matthew

[alanjuggler]

quick want - if anyone has any facelift wings in facelift white, give me a shout :)

second thing - the part that i've had to cut out where the foam is, what thickness metal would people use there? i've been using 1.5mm sheet for the floorpan, but i dont think it's that thick as standard and i'm wondering what to use. the 1.5mm is a bitch to shape :wack:

[muttley]

I used 1.5mm sheet for my race prep and it can be a bitch to shape, just took my time and tried to cut the sheet to minimise bending, tho must admit mine wasn't rusty at the point of where yours has the foam (the only part of the car without rust):rolleyes: good luck with the build mate, If any time you need any help give me a shout :thumbs:

[alanjuggler]

i'm using machinemarts 1mm "plasma" angle grinder discs to cut the metal, they work well, but don't last long, not too expensive though. don't distort the metal at all really.

i think i've figured out what i'm doing to do - after all, that part isn't visible so it doesn't have to be perfectly original. i'm just currently pondering what to do about the front wings - they're rusted to hell at the bottom.

not sure whether to get wider fibreglass wings or just try and find an alright set of steel ones and spray them white..

[John Bennett]

i'm just currently pondering what to do about the front wings - they're rusted to hell at the bottom.

not sure whether to get wider fibreglass wings or just try and find an alright set of steel ones and spray them white..

Weld them :nod: 1mm steel, weld it on carefully, smooth it with that u-pol filler stuff and spray it. It's what fry did on his S13's front wings, and the bottom bit had almost fallen off it was so disintegrated. Damn good job, you wouldn't know it was a patch job from the outside.

[alanjuggler]

ever start a job you wish you'd never bothered with?

suffice to say my front suspension turrents are only about 30% fixed to the rail that runs where the wing mounts. pictures to follow later.

by the way, anyone got any tips for welding under the car? i keep getting a lot of blobs in my shroud, arcing against the shroud itself for the tip. driving me insane.

[alanjuggler]

having melted the swan neck for my welder, i set about prepping the other areas for welding. i had noticed a hole in the chassis rail some days earlier and poked it through. suffice to say, it was bad.

i then fell into a tearful, depressed state and realising the only thing i'd eaten today was a punnet of strawberries, i decided to call it a day at an early 4.15pm.

edit with images

http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/morerust-4.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/morerust-5.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/morerust-6.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/morerust-7.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/morerust-9.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/morerust-10.jpg

most of the progress today has actually been finding more holes. hence the huge gaps in my chassis rails.

[John Bennett]

I've found you want the welder set bloody high if you want a decent weld and not pigeon-shit. It does mean that if the metal's thin, you've got to be careful not to dwell on one area or it'll melt through.
If there's traces of rust, I've found going over it quickly in one direction to 'blast off' the rust, then moving the welder back over the weld gives it a better chance of a proper weld pool. You're fooked if it's all just rust though, it'll just cut through it with nasty splattering everywhere.

[alanjuggler]

yeah, i was using high power to start with - but i'd unfortunately melted 3 tips with the power my welder kicks out. i dont think i was allowing it to cool long enough. :wack:

well, one thing that's happened as a result of this - my welding has definitely improved - i can actually use the settings properly now.

[alanjuggler]

oh and what size plate should i be using for the chassis rails - 2mm?

i was pondering (given the size of the holes) doing an inner skin with 1.5mm steel and then doing an outer, again, with 1.5mm.

opinions?

[djlee_dj]

fair play for doing all this work !

i wish i could weld :(

[alanjuggler]

fair play for doing all this work !

i wish i could weld :(

get a welder and give it a go, ppc had a review in the mag recently of 15 or so welders. the one i'm using (clarke 135te) came out middling - but i got it for £70 less than retail from machine mart because it was missing the crap mask that comes with it :wack: i got mine about 6 months ago and i've been slowly going from stupid little things, engine bay brackets and now moving to the more complicated stuff. it's mostly just knowing how much power to run to get good penetration.

it's always good when you melt stuff too to be able to just pop in to machinemart and get all easily compatible spares. i've melted so much stuff through impatience.

[djlee_dj]

ive tried to weld bodywork with a very basic 'hi/lo' welder settings and it was a disaster.

i cant weld things that thin

how much was your welder. im going to enrol in a welding course for september :)

but my 13 needs attention now , lol

im try scrape her through mot, then i can practice on it in few months :)

edit : that looks like the one i tried to use, how do you set the power ? is it just min or max, with wire speed adjustment ? the description says from 30-130amps. im a confused weld noob'

[alanjuggler]

min/max with 1/2 for each setting. min1 being lowest, max2 being highest.

make sure you dont use thick welding wire - using say 0.6mm wire reduces the current at the tip, so again, reducing the chance of blowing through. i've welded 0.9mm steel pretty successfully, so i think it's just a case of getting your settings right :)

[John Bennett]

Get an auto-darkening mask too. Welding's like the opposite of
'a bad workman blames his tools' :wack: . Get all the decent tools and it's a damn sight easier to learn.

2mm plate sounds thick enough for the chassis rails if it's welded properly. I can't imagine they're any thicker than that normally.
I'd imagine it's not cheap, but Nissan have all the chassis bits on FAST if it came to it.
The turrets were already going on mine- seems a common place. I'd wrap a plate around the side-rail to rebuild it, and then weld the turret to that. It's just held on with spot welds across the lip inside initially (and the top plate that rusts away).

edit: I've got mine on Max 1 for most stuff (which I think is the 3rd highest setting on that type of Clarke Mig).

[alanjuggler]

finished the suspension turrets today.

i'm really not looking forward to doing the chassis rails, though my new consignment of 8 plates of 500x250mm galvanised 1.5mm steel arrived today. only £9 + postage :D

:smitten: ebay.

[alanjuggler]

project piece of shit took another turn today. after i was rather happy re: my welding on the suspension turrets - though it's not perfect, there are good pieces of welding with very good penetration on them once i'd finally got my technique better to use higher power without blowing through. (this isn't a euphemism or double entendre :wack: )

http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/morerust2-1.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/morerust2-2.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/morerust2-3.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/morerust2-4.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/morerust2-5.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/morerust2-6.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/morerust2-7.jpg

i polished up some of the welds before i primed them so i could go 'ooh, shiny' :wack:

notice the filler, it's nearly 1cm thick :eek: that was on my sills. :indiff:

so yeah, this discovery has added more time onto the job :rolleyes: i think that tomorrow's task will be doing the sills on both sides, so i have something to weld to doing the floor pan..

[Stone]

Could have payed for three cars with the money you have spent on that s13 :D

[alanjuggler]

zip it welshie. :p

you could have kept your s13 and actually had a car with a pulse instead of that s14a sewing machine powered pile of poo :p

it's all about the choices we make in life, you just made the wrong one, so did i :wack:

[Stone]

my s14a gasket has got or crack in the manfold sound very ruff or like a s13 :D

[alanjuggler]

it's going from bad to worse.

chassis rail on passenger side behind the front crossmember, bad condition.

chassis rail on driver side in front of the crossmember, bad condition. it's not even connected from the side sheet to the bottom. :eek:

i'm hoping to have the sills done by the end of today if the bastard rain stays off so at least there'll be some part of the car that's got complete structure/strength.

just bought another load of gas :rolleyes:

[Noz]

Respect to you matey :notworthy

I had planned on buying a welder & doing mine, but reading your thread gave me inspiration not to :wack:

So I phoned a friend, told him what needed doing and he said "yeah no problem". Huge weight off my mind tbh :ghey:

[Yak]

OMG I cant believe you are trying to weld that shell up! Thats going to be a fair amount of mig wire :wack:

Top marks for effort though. :nod:

Im just glad my car still has more modification welding that repair welding done to it so far...

[marty_t3]

so far...

So far ... And it's next MOT is due when? :wack:

[Yak]

Tuesday ;) :wack:

[alanjuggler]

i probably could have got this through another MOT tbh - none of it was obviously weak but i needed to do it. i was poking / grinding most of it through rather than it obviously just crumbling under gentle MOT tapping.

today went from terrible, end of the line death to even worse. n/s sill wasn't connected to the car for about 2/3s of the run. had to cut it all out and plateplateplate. it's messy but strong.

so guess what, didnt finish the sills.

the plan is to do all this, make it last 2-3 years and then when i've saved enough pennies import a 180 or find a minter uk s13. so far i think this has cost me about £100 for all the welding consumables etc. damn sight cheaper than re-shelling. certainly for the moment.

noz, if you know someone will do a proper job, i'd definitely get someone else to do it. problem is, i've had two bodyshops, one garage and one chap who really could weld all **** this up in one way or another. it's not like i was paying badly either, i told them to just do it properly and i'd pay them whatever. never got a proper job :indiff:

that's all for today folks, i'm knackered. tomorrow's job is finish the driver side floorpan that's not over the fuel lines and both sills. ill be starting early. :|

[maff]

:thumbs: good job. My welder paid for itself in one job, one sill, so yours must have paid for itself a few times over by now :wack:

[nene]

OMG I cant believe you are trying to weld that shell up! Thats going to be a fair amount of mig wire :wack:
This is making me think of one of those mega-builder-structure-factory documentaries you get on Discovery/NatGeo channel where they go on about how many miles/tonnes of welding wire went into building something ;)

[alanjuggler]

believe it or not - not that much, you massive sods ;) i had been using 0.6mm wire, which is why i've had so much trouble with my welder and neat welds, i've now switched to 0.8mm wire which is far better for the structural welding i'm doing now. i wish i'd known how much gas i would have gone through before i started this and i would have rented a bottle :\ - i'm most of the way through it now so there doesn't seem to be much point..

i've probably used half of a 4.5kg spool of the 0.6mm wire and i've just started the 0.8mm stuff today :p

put it this way, i can actually hit the sills now with a hammer and they dont collapse ! result :wack:

i have some more pics, i'll post them later when my hair isn't on fire. :wack:

i'm managing to get good weld penetration sometimes now, only problem is, with this many contaminants, underseal/paint/the zinc primer i'm using, it's every 5 welds or so i get a really nice one.

[alanjuggler]

images from today...

http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/morerust3-1.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/morerust3-2.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/morerust3-3.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/morerust3-4.jpg

tomorrows job will be finishing the passenger side sill welding - currently tacked in place and finishing the passenger side chassis rail. :)

[Yak]

Where the hell is that last pic from? :confused:

[alanjuggler]

driver side arch :) the pedals are right behind the hole on the left :wack:

[Miguelis]

good rust car :D

[alanjuggler]

the only thing keeping me going at this point is remembering how back turbobrick's car was :wack:

finished the passenger side chassis rail off today. :) hope to finish the sill off and then that'll be the nearside done ! :D

[alanjuggler]

failed on finishing the nearside. got distracted by the state of the rear quarterpanels.

they look pretty bad, but should be relatively easy to fix (certainly compared to the front) should have some pics of the damage this evening..

[Nize]

Great progress mate... and it's good to see someone else getting stuck into the rust and getting it sorted properly. :)

Just out doing a bit more on mine now too... looking to get at least the driver's side finished today... we'll see how the weather holds out! :rolleyes:

Don't suppose you've taken any pic's of the inside of the front chassis legs?
I've been trying to see how the reinforcing plates fit inside... whether they're welded in or just tacked in place etc... keep up the good work mate, im gonna be following your progress with much interest. :thumbs:

Nize.

[alanjuggler]

shit, not really :wack: - the front chassis legs in certain points were completely gone - literally, one part of the front powerbrace mounting points was just rust.

for the moment i've just made sure the box section is as strong as possible.

where rust has been before i'm basically putting in repair plates to replace rust and then putting another sheet over the top of those end to end - should give it enough strength. i hope :wack:

this car is odd, where the rust is - it's really bad - but the majority of the car, floorpan, rear chassis rails etc, is fine. it's bizarre really - the overall condition of the car seems bad - but the further i go down the chassis rails, the cleaner it gets until the rear quarters :wack:

[nene]

I thought that was because you parked it front-first into a puddle ;)

[alanjuggler]

http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=365522

turbo is back :) will be installing / finishing the welding this weekend hopefully. :wack:

i can easily see this dragging out a couple more weekends unless i pull my finger out..

[alanjuggler]

ok, no more welding news. but in an effort to motivate myself, i've put my turbo back on and primed it etc :)

http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/turboinstall1.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/turboinstall2.jpg

got it primed with ~ 50psi oil pressure, no leaks that i can see :) oil return is now back on, so i just need to put all the intake pipework back on and it'll be running.. :)

[alanjuggler]

engine runs again - bit shakily with no exhaust. but sounds evil :wack:

finished passenger side sills today - just have to grind the welds back and make sure they've penetrated :)

[Hallsy]

Damn, that is one rusty shell :( Has it lived by the seaside all it's life!!??

I've always felt that I've been lucky with my shell, only having the usual tailgate rust, and just recently slight scabbing on one sill, and one turret plate, but maybe I should start having a bit of a poke!!

One thing, if you are burning a lot of tips, try turning up the wire speed a bit, you can also adjust burn back on some welders, but I don't think you can on your Clarke. Other thing, with galvo plate it might be worth wearing a suitable respirator if you're welding a lot of it, to prevent zinc poisoning. I can't remember the proper name, don't think it's that bad, just gives flu like symptoms, or so my old welding tutor told me!

Anyway, top work - keep it up.

I took 3 days off last week to try to get my S13 bodywork sorted but got rained off :( Didn't manage to get any paint on :(

[alanjuggler]

not in the seaside, as far as i can trace the car, it was edinburgh > blackburn > me in manchester.

i think it's the scottish weather that's done it :wack:

it's not too bad, will take a couple more days of welding / grinding i think. hope to have it finished by next weekend. :)

[muttley]

not in the seaside, as far as i can trace the car, it was edinburgh > blackburn > me in manchester.

i think it's the scottish weather that's done it :wack:

it's not too bad, will take a couple more days of welding / grinding i think. hope to have it finished by next weekend. :)

Keep up the good work mate :thumbs:
Shame it won't be ready for the Japan North Show :(

[alanjuggler]

it's a shame, but the body work will be pretty rough next weekend, i'm going to be using por15 on the arches and there's some of the external quarter panel to cut out.

plan is to get an MOT and then drop it off at the bodyshop..

[park_monkey]

damn, this makes feel like a whinging little girl! i have some welding to do but have to admire your commitment in tackling this. at least i get to use the ramps at work to weld my chassis rails, no way would i have the patience to do this without a ramp.
will be watching this thread with great interest, my mot is due in two days and i have to finish off ns chassis rail (all patches on but needs seam welding in places), weld a hole in the floor in the ns front footwell and a couple of other small patches.
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm196/park_monkey/th_Sxweld2_004.jpg (http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm196/park_monkey/Sxweld2_004.jpg)
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm196/park_monkey/th_Sxweld_005.jpg (http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm196/park_monkey/Sxweld_005.jpg)

the more i poked around at the ns chassis rail the bigger the pile of crap on the floor. i priced up a new chassis rail from nissan, £425+vat they wanted, needless to say i patched it.
good luck with this mate!

[alanjuggler]

quick bump - i have more pics to go on the thread of the 'final' finish, i.e. POR15 + seam sealed.

has anyone else got an S13 with suspension turrents that arent undersealed at the top?

i noticed when i was doing mine they were just bare white paint :eek: - i'd take it as read this is why my suspension turrets were rusting so badly :(

i've done them now, so hopefully, no more problems :)

[alanjuggler]

ok, here's the update. was rained off today, so only managed to finish chassis blacking the right hand side of the driver side floorpan and underneath most of the car..

http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/rustwip1.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/rustwip2.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/rustwip3.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/rustwip4.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/rustwip5.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/rustwip6.jpg
http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/rustwip7.jpg

i'm now coining the ironic turn of phrase 'just like stock' to describe my efforts. if i dont laugh about it i might cry at the patchwork quilt my car has become.

better than massive rust holes though, i suppose :wack:

[alanjuggler]

rain stopped! have carried on welding.

i'm a bit concerned about one thing - i think i'm welding far too much strength into what i'm doing, as in, you can hit my suspension turrets with a hammer and they resonate. it's getting lovely and musical :wack:

[Drift-R]

HOLY SHIT MAN.......dedication is now the word for your efforts...i thought my s13 was bad when i first started it, liking it man liking it

[alanjuggler]

http://www.aoph09.dsl.pipex.com/rustwip-2-1.jpg

was rained off again today, sunny manchester :wack: reconstructed the driver side sill today :)

looks better than it did earlier, with expanding foam falling out :mad:

will continue tomorrow :)

[nene]

Something doesn't look quite right with the gap between the bottom of the door and the top of the sill ...

[alanjuggler]

i haven't actually touched it - it doesn't look right because all the sodding paint has burnt off up there so it provides a very black backdrop to the door instead of nice white paint.

i think it's OK, but now you've made me paranoid, i'm going to have to check :wack:

[alanjuggler]

bugger. nene is right. it looks worse than it is because of the black, but the 1mm ish gap that's normally there between the door and the sill increases to about 2mm at the end. looks terribly bad in the pics, but if i care enough i suppose i can use fibreglass/filler on the end. i dont think i do though. :wack:

[alanjuggler]

well, turns out both sides match re: the above problem, so i'm not going to worry about it :wack:

second thing - i've just finished a 5kg spool of 0.8mm welding wire. shit.

good news is - the front of the car is finished! more pics to come of the welding to the back tonight.

[gaz_moose]

wow man im impressed with your dedication
i would have just got another shell
i squashed one last year that was pretty mint because i had no place to store it and i kinda feel bad now

my front turrets had just paint up inside them aswell my car has like 3 coats of underseal on it.
make sure you paint inside your sills when your finnished.

[alanjuggler]

argh :wack:

nevermind, my welding has improved, that's for sure :wack:

how do people paint inside the sills properly? i was just going to use dynax + lance and get a good coating of wax on them. if there's a better way, i'm all ears :nod:

oh and gaz, if you're ever getting rid of stuff free, i can usually store most stuff, give it to meeeeeeeeeee. :wack:

[gaz_moose]

i havent really got that many spares any more (damn thing best not break)
id just blast loads of spray paint through the holes on the inside then as you said use some wax.

is your car a sunroof model? have you any rust on the C pillars?

have you took those engines to bits yet?

[alanjuggler]

not taken the engines to bits, they're under a pile of interior - my deal with myself is when i clean my garage out, then i can buy an engine stand - guess what i've not done yet :wack:

it's a moot point anyhow, i thought my engine had been built badly, turned out i had 11.5bar compression at cold across all 4 and it was my turbo that was cocked. nevermind eh ? :D

no rust on the c-pillars, it is a sunroof, but thankfully the drains are intact and not blocked, i fired a load of thin grease down them the other day and was rewarded with 4 greasy puddles below the car, pleased with that :nod:

edit:

some tips if you try fixing rust and welding your car yourself:

my learning curve doing this has been pretty steep given how little experience i have, but i'm getting better.

1) use a smidge of copper grease on the welding tip threads, i ruined about 4 swan necks through jammed and then snapped tips.

2) flap discs - dont bother grinding back welds with a grinding disc - they're too uncontrollable, buy a couple of flap discs, 40/80 grit, maybe a 120 if you're feeling flush - they actually grind faster and won't 'dig' into the metal and shoot off in random directions.

3) welding wire, right stuff for the right job, anything below 0.8mm, i'd use 0.6mm wire, it reduces the current at the tip and reduces blowing through. likewise, anything above 0.8mm sheet metal, use 0.8mm wire.

i was using 0.6mm wire because that's what i'd loaded my welder with when i started doing the thicker stuff and now looking back - regret it, my welding is sooooooo much tidier using thicker wire and getting a good weld pool going.

4) as john bennettettetet said earlier, decent equipment makes your life a crap load easier, i use a clarke 135te - bargain as it was a return, had the crap mask missing and instead of £220ish, it was £150. if anyone's interested, PPC had a section on welders a while ago, I can scan if anyone cares :D

5) good metal - look at ebay, some good deals on what to most people are offcuts but for patching are perfect, i picked up some 500mmx200mm (8 of them!) galvi 1.5mm steel for £9 + delivery.


that's what i've learned so far, there's stuff i'm sure i've missed but i'll post up as i remember.

oh and one more thing - i hate cosmetic welding with a passion :D

[IKRAM]

What type of shielding gas are you using mate?
i found that using co2/argon mix made my welds look miles better than just co2.
i have a sip one btw- good welder but crap wire feed.

[alanjuggler]

using an argon/co2 mix also, 80/20 iirc. something along those lines.

by the way, i hate repairing arches. i mean, i REALLY hate repairing arches. if i never have to do it again, i'll be a happy person.

[John Bennett]

I think it's mostly C02 with a smidge of argon.
I've just tried that stuff for the first time, it is a bit better, but not as much as I'd imagined.
I've just welded a bit on one of my rear arches (which I was hoping wouldn't be needed on such a new car, but it was :( ). I put the plate behind the old metal, cut the old arch right back to shiny metal (or you'll just blow through the rust) and turn the welder as low as I can go, then just spot it for a second at a time, otherwise it melts through the paper-thin metal. I use the aforementioned flapwheel to flatten it, then it gets sealed, filled level, painted etc (this is the bit I'm dreading, I can see the whole car needing a respray to make it look even :()

[alanjuggler]

the actual bodywork isn't a problem, i have a friendly bodyshop chap who's good at what he does so i just need to make sure it's strong enough to take some fibreglass/bog/filler :D

the amount of filler on my car is quite depressing. i'm going to have to think about long term plans if i want to stick with S13s - i dont think this shell will last more than 2-3 years in it's current state - not the structural stuff, that's pretty good (except badly repaired parts of the sills) it's the panels that are suffering. the sills will probably need re-doing it about 2-3 years given the terribleness of the repair i've found at the back of both sides. (air hammer'd inner sill, just bashed back - still rusting way :mad: )

i think i would like to stick with S13s, tbh. going to have to think about importing one with the wrong engine, i think. :indiff:

oh and just checked, my bottle says it's 86% argon, 14% co2.

i find it much easier to get a clean weld with an argon mix, i tend to get a lot of splatter and occasionally shitty weld penetration with CO2.

[alanjuggler]

right, it's my birthday today and guess what i'm doing.

that's right, welding!

i have a few pics to upload, can't be bothered now because they need processing, some taken in portrait i'll need to rotate. :)

[djlee_dj]

as i mentioned in the thread earlier. im intrested in being able to do this if i ever need.

so im enrolling in a welding course :) starts in 2 weeks (hope theres room for me)

[alanjuggler]

hurraaaaaaaaaah! it's doneeeeee! it's not pretty in all places, but there's solid metal everywhere now.. pictures to follow when i go back to my parent's and take some.

djlee - make sure the course is relevant to car welding, i.e. for most people this will be mig welding. i haven't bothered with arc welding because of the drawbacks and tig is waaay to expensive unless you're getting really into it.

[nene]

Can we have some stats on how much welding has been done and how much wire and gas it used? ;)

How long did it take to develope a good technique?

[alanjuggler]

mostly it was changes in equipment that changed the quality of welding. the move to 0.8mm wire instead of 0.6mm brought good improvements in the penetration of the weld (which looks better too) it took me about 2 weeks to get a good technique.

points that have been welded

n/s

front chassis rail
front cross member mounting point
front sill
side of the front chassis rail
both sides of the rear arch
top of rear arch
reconstruction of rear sill & inner quarter panel

o/s

front sill
2x side of the front chassis rail
both sides of the rear arch
top of rear arch
reconstruction of rear sill & inner quarter panel (include inner panel next to fuel tank)

i've used approximately 8kg of welding wire :wack:

about 1400 litres of argon/co2 mix. that's 14 of the disposable bottles equiv.

i'm going to estimate in costs about £250-300. but i know exactly where the weak points are and if any more welding will need doing I now have the ability to do it myself.

apart from my 5 recommendations above - i'd make sure of one other thing - make sure that all the metal is clean, you get a far nicer weld. oh and don't try and weld near underseal when you're underneath the car, trust me, it's not a good idea :wack:

[djlee_dj]

djlee - make sure the course is relevant to car welding, i.e. for most people this will be mig welding. i haven't bothered with arc welding because of the drawbacks and tig is waaay to expensive unless you're getting really into it.

its mig il be concentrating on.

my believing of it is you choose your specalist 'advance' area. which il be choosing mig

found more welding on the 13 yesterday too :cry:

[alanjuggler]

well, the car is roadworthy and has an MOT this morning. I will post back with how it's done :)

i've already taken it for a spin and nearly wet myself. i managed a 100m wheelspin in 3rd with the rear going slightly sideways but the car still going forward.

the difference in chassis rigidity is crazy. i can feel the difference very much compared to before, i can hold power through a corner more - definitely feels like i'm losing less power to twist - though how much is down to a turbo that's fully working and how much is down to a chassis that's not crap is arguable.

[muttley]

Good luck with the MOT mate :thumbs:
Having now seen the car in the flesh and seen the amount of work you have done, I can't see it failing on body work.

[alanjuggler]

bloody hope not, it's there now, so will await the call later :)

[alanjuggler]

passed!


hurrah, i now have an MOT with two advisories.

track rod ends have slight play (he told me to do the steering rack bushes too)

second advisory:

loads of welding done :wack:

genius. anyhow, car is ridiculously fast and sounds like the end of the world. that's all i need. no oil leaks, turbo is spot on.

muchos gracias to everyone that's helped me get this far, various conversations and help from people is very much appreciated. :)

first on the list - new track rod ends & steering rack bushes, then it's time to make it pretty :wack:

[Scougar]

Congrats buddy :)

Matthew

[TM_S13]

good news ;)

[Yak]

I am most impressed! :notworthy

[nene]

Well done :nod: that was a truly epic quantity of welding :D

I should have a replacement carpet for you in the next week or so ;)

[alanjuggler]

cool, the s14 one i got isn't a good fit in the corners and has been annoying me for a while :D

anyone used the tein steering/track ends? thinking about these since they're only £40 more expensive than the equivalent pattern parts.

[muttley]

Nice one mate, couldn't think of a better result after all the work you have done :thumbs:
Now get them advisorys done :whip: :D

[Paulpen]

Fair play to you chap and ive now got a bit more faith in my project :)

How did you find shaping the plates and any tips for it ?

[Petrol]

Just read this thread, mucho impressed :notworthy Amazing amount of work you have done:thumbs: I will probably jack up our S13 tomorrow to check for rust - You got me worried :(

[alanjuggler]

for shaping plates i used my angle grinder. machinemart do 'plasma' discs ~1mm thick. bout 80p a go.

mostly i welded it on one edge and then shaped it on the car. bit of an ad-hoc approach, but most of the shapes i was doing were relatively simple.

the rust is a bitch - mine 'looked' relatively clean until you were underneath it.

oh and a status update - my very expensive os giken box is broken. yet to be determined problem.

[nene]

oh and a status update - my very expensive os giken box is broken. yet to be determined problem.
Well, at least you've got a carpet, are you going to come and get it some time? :)

[alanjuggler]

as it happens, i'm in south wales next week, ostensibly on holiday but depending on where you're located, i could swing round ;)

will pm you :)

oh and as per my thread in s13 tech, got the gearbox off in 1hr 20 mins. rather impressed :D

will be taking it to richard henry motorsport tomorrow :)

[park_monkey]

if you still need a carpet i've got one you can have. if you find one of my old for sale threads there is a picture of it. need it out the way now.cant believe you did that much welding, fair play, most people would have re shelled.

[Dave270R]

Just read this thread, fantastic effort there :notworthy

A lot of useful information :nod: I'm buying a welder soon and that's given me plenty of pointers. Hope you get the gearbox sorted soon :thumbs:

[alanjuggler]

gearbox is done now and car is back on the road. :nod: i sort of forgot about this thread since the rust was done. :D

i'm using my old os giken 3rd gear as a coaster now and the old broken layshaft as an interesting conversation piece :wack: (it took a single tooth off the gear on the layshaft that runs third)

reading this back and looking at the pics makes me a bit sad as i think i can do it much better now - much more prep practice and confidence with the materials makes a lot of difference :nod:

i have much more patience when i'm welding now and don't try and do the 'hero' seam welding constantly. just do an inch at a time and keep calm :wack:

things i'm sorting out now:

2x gauge vent plate (put a 7" LCD in my double din slot so needed to relocate)
fiddling with Nistune
s14 master cylinder

needs aligning and the wheels refurbing too.

oh and it needs to go into the bodyshop :wack:

[nene]

i'm using my old os giken 3rd gear as a coaster now and the old broken layshaft as an interesting conversation piece :wack: (it took a single tooth off the gear on the layshaft that runs third)

I guess you thought you'd broken your big ends again when that went ...

*BANG*BANG*BANG*BANG*BANG* :smash: