Why duplicate efforts or scatter information like this???

[Arro]

First off be aware that I'm from the United States, however Club-S12 has members worldwide, and this is why I feel the way I explain below.

I think this section is an entirely bad idea. I don't promote it myself. It has nothing to do with stepping on toes, and everything to do with detriment to the worldwide S12 community.

We're still too young and small a club to fracture our discussions any more than the Club-S12 site ( http://www.club-S12.org ) and the Yahoogroups forum. We need all our discussions in one place or nearly so which we have worked hard to do in the Club-S12 forum ( http://www.ckub-s12.org/phpBB2/index.php ), all of us worldwide, and to spread thin the fruits of our labors now is to take away the advantage we have: centralized information.

If you guys want to have a UK chitchat for local S12 owners, fine, but this is listed as a "technical" section. Why can't you have these tech discussions on the club forum? What need is there to bring that away from the group? I can see no benefit in splintering the already small number of heads we put together when discussing things.

So no, I don't support this, in fact I will and am actively promoting against the idea, it makes no sense to undo the progress we have made so far with a community of under 300 registered and about 30 actively-discussing S12 members. As it is we already have the Yahoogroups list which fragments discussion somewhat already.

Please, keep all the discussions in one site and save the rest of us some grief!



-J. Arro

[Actual_Ben_Taylor]

To be honest I don't know why this is here either...

[Keith_C]

Steve suggested it, and it seemed a good idea.

We don't want to step on any toes though, so we'll have a quick poll and if the consensus is to remove, we will

[andyf]

Bizarre post Arro ...

I was surprised to see the S12 section, and I don't own one, and I don't personally know anyone who has an S12, so I can't really vote for or against having a technical forum for it.

The splintered information view seems odd to me, though

[Dave_S]

In Steve's defence ;) it was requested!!

Dave

[D]

I think it's a good thing, and should be kept.

Perhaps change it to just a general S12 forum, rather than technical. I think also an S15 forum would be neat. Even if we don't have any, or many S12 or S15 owners, there are some of us who still like to discuss, and find out things about them. It'd be a nice addition to the forum, and if, and when we gain enough members who own either car it could then be expanded.

S12 Discussion
S15 Discussion

Please

-D.

[SteveCarter200]

Yes, it was requested by users of this BB who happen to own an S12 or a CA18ET engined car.

Presumably if they knew about your website then they wouldnt feel a need to ask for a tech section here. In fact, having just done a Google search for "Nissan S12" your site doesnt come up as a result in the first 10 pages:rolleyes:.

Maybe more time promoting your site would be time better spent rather than posting here to try and reduce the resources available to S12 owners. You seem to think of our little S12 section (that has only been active for 3 days) as competition. It isnt. Its just a small area that the few UK S12 owners (you appear to be US based) that are not aware of your site to come and discuss their car problems.

May I ask how you intend to "actively promoting against the idea"?

[Alan]

I like to read interesting stuff about new things. I know nothing about the S12 and was looking forward to hearing lots of interesting tales about it.

And Arro - please! Keeping things in one place on the internet? That's the silliest thing I've heard in a while. Surely there will be a natural organic growth of S12 info from all around the world? Keeping it in one place is like having all the eggs in one basket. What if the guy who runs one of the sites falls under a bus? What if he buys a Subaru?

Sites are only a click away. the more the merrier.

Just my opinion.

[scimmy ben]

Originally posted by Dave_S
In Steve's defence ;) it was requested!!

Dave

Guilty as charged, although I did offer to get my cheque book out:).

Kill it if you like, its your board but there's a different mood to this board than Club-S12 which is still finding its feet. Jason (Arro above) is a mod on the board - draw your own conclusions - I'm still perplexed at the virtual lines being drawn in the virtual sand.:confused:

Hey, I'm not even an S12 owner, someone sell me a decent CA18 DET, gearbox, loom etc and I'll vote for it to be binned - now there's a fair compromise.

Ben

[Arro]

Yeah man, keep it in one place, that is indeed what I said. We aren't some huge phenomenon so we can't afford to disseminate and spread thin yet. We may never be. It doesn't matter if I am one of the club's admins or not, my points are valid. All I usually do as admin anyways is organize threads when needed or requested. I'm a club member like anyone else on there. We actually have a fairly civil bunch, with only a couple scrapes that are past now. We have tons of info in our discussions, pictures, etc. We've come a long ways in a short time, but still have a much longer ways to go. I lik that the UK guys do some things different from other people, whether I agree with the ideas or not, because it still contributes to the whole of the Club's knowledge and experiences.

Promoting the site is hard, I've already promoted it to three different big Nissan mailing lists and am still working to promote, but it's only been running since June of '02, so we're still new as far as promotion is concerned. All three of us admins and some of the regular members are very busy in a number of areas developing info and spec sheets, fabing and testing prototype parts, hashing our spec differences between years and locations worldwide, it's way too jumbled to addyet another variable so large as a second technical site.

I think the idea to turn this to a General is good, because I'm all for exposing the S12 to other circles (like S13-15 owners, and other Nissan or general enthusiasts with curiosity), but let's keep the tech where everyone can find it. UK guys could even mention meets there so non-S12 browsing visitors can spy it and potentially check the meets out. a General verison of this forum is a great idea. Just please keep the technical discussion consolidated in one place, as we're still a small community, even with our worlwide memberships.

BTW, we are not overwhelmingly USA-based in membership, we have a huge chunk of Euro/Aussie membership and active involvement in discussions, including a nice number of UK owners.

We vitally need you UK owners in our discussions, and even possibly to help us locate parts vendors that may not be accessible in whatever country another member might be in. Please keep technical discussion consolidated on one site.

Thanks.

-J. Arro
'85 Nissan 200SX CA18ET

[Arro]

Originally posted by scimmyuk
Guilty as charged, although I did offer to get my cheque book out:).

Kill it if you like, its your board but there's a different mood to this board than Club-S12 which is still finding its feet. Jason (Arro above) is a mod on the board - draw your own conclusions - I'm still perplexed at the virtual lines being drawn in the virtual sand.:confused:
Ben

Ben, what is the mood situation you refer to? Maybe this is something you might want to bring up to Dan or Chris or I?

I will be the first to admit there's been a couple instances where I wanted to slap a couple members for being mean, but hey this can happen in any board, and I want people to know that when someone insults someone else as has happened once or twice before, they get spoken to privately and its not "let go".

If you guys are discontended with the site, you need to tell the Admins, Dan is so laid back I don't think anything you could suggest would upset him.

[Ninja]

Arro,why dont you post a link to your site with a little explanation about it and one of the mods can make it a sticky post so everyone can see it when they come in here;)

[Arro]

;) you and I are already on the same page, I posted links in threads here to threads on the club site that already have answers to these questions, and in this very thread is the link to the forum.

[»» RichardK ««]

At the end of the day, whether you have an S12, S13, S14 or S15 it is still a Silvia!

I think this section is worth having as it gives us UK S12 owners a chance to chat about the S12. It's the same as I read the S13 forums, yet don't have an S13 myself. The information on there is relevant to the S12 anyway. Additionally, I would think it is worth having for S13 owners as well, seeing as their cars were derived from the S12 !!

As for keeping everything in the same place on the internet... pull the other one. Every web site is hosted on a PC somewhere in the world, it doesn't take much to loose a web site, and then what? No more resources for S12's?

Personally I'd say keep this section as it is good! Maybe change it to "S12 General" or something, but please don't get rid of it! There are few enough resources for S12's on the internet as it is without loosing one more!!!

Lecture over :D

[tanjuakio]

I think both the S12 and S15 sections are a great idea. Although I have an S14, I have developed a complete interest in all things SX, that includes other varients etc. To have a section here is great and I don't think it should go. As for putting everything together in one place, well that kinda defeats the whole point of the net, the more resources the better. If you plonk everything together you only get one groups point of view, the whole beauty of the Net is different view points and ideas of the same topic, sorry Arro I think you're talking bo11ocks. Dissemination is the best way to advance, simple as that.

Rob

[matt_j]

I actually like the section it is good to learn more about the s12 right here, theres a lot of good stuff that can be posted, the s13 is quite a different car to the s13 and particularly the s14.

with regards to arro, sod that, keeping information in one place is ridiculous, like all s13 owners must huddle to an ozzie board to see what they think about the car and talk with them? jezus, its pathetic, and aside from that a lot of americans think very differently and act very differently to english people, culture differences etc, so i can easily see that being impossible to get along with, if theres an english s12 BB no matter how small then it deserves its chance, and if you have been promoting since the middle of 2002, either you arent doing a good job at all or there is no interest, either way people decide what they want to, they dont fall into line because you say so......:rolleyes:

[Arro]

Well you won't learn nearly as much on here as you will at http://www.club-s12.org , the forum is so chock full of info, I think that it's presnetly the largest collection of S12-related info in the world by a longshot, even over the Classic 200SX yahoogroups forum that it was borne from.

Pictures, diagrams, and general accounts of tinkerings and tweakings, you will find it there before you find it anywhere else.

[AshT_200]

Arro, fair dues... however you have to admit, tuning methods differ greatly between the UK and the US.

And starting this thread with the words... "First off be aware I'm from the United States." doesn't really start you off on the right note. I got scared that you were going to bomb us. :eek: ;)

[Arro]

Us? Aren't we the ones who've been bombed and blown up on our own soils? :confused: We no likey bomb-bombs.

Yes, tuning methods differ between geographies, which is why we like the fact that a guy from Turkey, a guy from Australia, a guy from the UK, a guy in Japan, and a guy in the US can all chew the fat and broaden our horizons. those differences are both diversity for the club and innovation we might have missed out on if we were divided.

You know, the whole yank "United We Stand" bull ;)

[2BDFRNT]

Arro mate, dont start with the 9-11 politics here, there arent any other yanks around to back you up, and its dangerous ground to tread.....not me stepping up or putting in my opinion, just a useful observation. You might find the whole world doesnt see it all your way, know what im sayin?

[yeager]

sorry, can't help myself here....

keep it all in one place ?

This is the bloody internet you fool. Wake up, smell the coffee and instead of wasting your time here (and from reading your post it's deducable that your an educated person) and spend it making your own forum more attractrive and functional.

Sorry if I sound rather harsh but I find such comments preposterous and outdated. If you had made people here aware of your sites existance then maybe those with an interest in S12's would frequent both sites, if yours provided a better quality of information than here then you gain more support.

I can't believe your being so arrogant...

[yeager]

and one more thing... in light of your topic.


Why duplicate efforts or scatter information like this???

Think about the idea you're actually trying to convey here. If your attitude was propogated back through time, would they have written many versions of the Bible ? Surely not, due to a waste of duplicate efforts.

Would general debate, in politics, in the boardroom, in the playground be useful ? No, such scandalous scattering of information would degrade the quality of the information itself...

I'm drawing a lot, reading massively between the lines I know, but come on ! Be real :eek:

[Vez]

God what a twat.....

The US bombing us part was refering to a certain a number of FRIENDLY FIRE incidents...

The US killed more UK troops than the Iraqi's in the last gulf conflict FACT.

As yeager states, this is the INTERNET, and is a free market to anyone. If you feel we are a threat here at SXOC, and we are starting to get a US following, then do something about it, not tell us to stop.

As was rightly pointed out, your not in the TOP 10 in google for an s12 search, surely you should address this, and it isnt rocket science.....

GOOGLE SEARCH ENGINE FACTS.

When spidered:

1) Ignores keywords completely.
2) Uses Site Title.
3) Also uses first four lines of text contained upon your site. (tip, if your title page doesnt use text then put some in and make it the same colour as the background).

There you go, fix your site and you should be easily in the top 10 as I dont suppose "S12" sites are particulary competitive on the web!

See, we have a great community here, helping each other to better ourselves and cars and hey, we even help twats out!

;)

[SteveCarter200]

I think enough has been said on the matter now.

Thread closed before it gets unpleasant.