R32 track car

[Ron Jeremy]

We've just got our hands on an R32 GTS-T which we plan to prepare for the track. Dave (my mechanic friend) has just found out he is about to come in to a (fair) bit of money. So we intend to go mad. I have been thinking about a spec for the skyline, and a list of possible issues. Any advice on what I have so far would be greatly appreciated. I don't want to end up going down one avenue and having to take things off the car that we don't need. What do we think so far?

Engine:

RB26DETT
Wirinig looms
ECU
Uprated turbos - 1 big 1 small to reduce lag?
Fuel pump - flow rates?
Exhaust system - manifold? What point does the standatd mani become restrictive?
Air filters
Radiator and Kenlowes 14"x2
Silicone hoses
Engine gaskets
Engine belts
AVCR/Power FC boost controller
FMIC + Hard pipe kit
Pistons - spec?
Conrods - spec?
Main/big end bearings?
Metal head gasket
Head studs
Cams/ pulleys? Lift, duration etc?
Fuel pressure regulator
fuel rail
injectors - size
swirl pot
fuel lines?
Oil cooler? Necessary?
Braided oil and water feeds for turbo.
External wastegate? Benefits?
Sump? RB26 into R32? Will it fit straight in?
Chassis:

Coilovers 8/6? Track spec
Full polybush kit. Exactly what bushes?
Front and rear strut braces -upper and lower?
Anti roll bars.
Camber kit?

Brakes:

Bigger brake conversion - sizes? Best disks, pads, calipers? Wheel clearances?
Brake lines - Goodrich?

Gearbox:

Standard box - How long til it disintergrates? Max power it can handle? Will an R32 box mate up to an RB26?
Clutch? Paddle or organic?
Flywheel?
Best combinations of both?

Interior:

Steering wheel
Roll cage - best spec? best places to have one built?
Guages and pod - sandwich plate etc.
Bucket seats and subframes
Harnesses. 4 or 5 point?

Extras:

Nismo engine and gearbox mounts.
Plugs - Type?
Thermostat? Best temp to open at?
Oil pump?
Water pump?
Engine kill switch?
Fire extinguisher straight into engine bay?
Towing eye?

[Si]

I'm not sure you can do the whole big small turbo thing on that set-up - i think that only works with sequentials doesn't it? Aren't DETT's run in parallel?
Interesting project though :nod:
What are your plans for the chassis/handling? there's very little mention of that - i would have thought that's as/more important than engine for track work?
I'd suggest looking at rose jointed arms, solid bushes, full on hardcore coilover set ups, possibly external reservoir if you are going all out. Ohlins ar the people to speak to about that i believe.

[Ron Jeremy]

I've no idea about the turbo set up, I was thinking to have a smaller one come in eariler to reduce lag rather than have nothing til 5k as on a track that would be important. I've seen it done on another car in a magazine and thought it worth thinking about.

As for the handling, I thought a good set of coilovers, braces and anti roll bars, and polybushes. After that I'm stumped.

I'll get some pictures tonight, we're starting by romoving the silver foil on the windows :rolleyes:

[Si]

I was under the impression that with a track car, most of the time is spent in the higher revs, so it's not as important.
But that aside, I'm pretty sure you'd have to redevelop the turbo system entirely to run a sequential set up. I believe that the DETT runs 1 turbo of 3 cyclinders, and the other off the other 3, but i may be totally wrong. I don't think that would work at all with different turbo sizing,

As for the handling, i guess it depends how far you want to go - you could look at seam/stitch welding for a start. Or take it all the way to spaceframing :cool: :D

EDIT: A bit more sequential/parallel info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_turbo

[arry]

In all fairness by the time you've done all this, you're much much much much better off just going out and buying a well modified R32 GTR to start with.





Uprated turbos - 1 big 1 small to reduce lag? Not a winner
Fuel pump - flow rates? Most 600bhp examples use Walbro's
Exhaust system - manifold? What point does the standatd mani become restrictive? Quite early on, but with you wanting a turbo swap buy as part of a kit (theres a few grand gone)
AVCR/Power FC boost controller You will need engine management
Pistons - spec? ACL Race series - same for the rest
Cams/ pulleys? Lift, duration etc? Dunno
Sump? RB26 into R32? Will it fit straight in? No
Chassis:

Full polybush kit. Exactly what bushes? surprisingly most are S13 bushes
Anti roll bars.fronts are same as S13 I believe, rears different

Brakes:

Bigger brake conversion - sizes? Best disks, pads, calipers? Wheel clearances? I've got 315's under standard R32 GTR alloys

Standard box - How long til it disintergrates? Max power it can handle? Will an R32 box mate up to an RB26?No, RB20 box is completely different akin to S13, you'll need the RB26 box anyway
Clutch? Paddle or organic? depends what you want
Flywheel? Kerching

Oil pump? N1 spec same as water pump
Water pump?

[Ron Jeremy]

Cheers Arry, I was actually gonna PM you but I forgot. All very valuable advice. Unfortunately, we've already got the car now and it was very cheap, so it'll have to stay. I was up for tuning it as it is but once I'd spoken to distinctive cars in york, they reckon we'd be better off putting in an RB26. Now I just dunno!

[Razzario]

when the rb20 comes out... how much would that be ?

[arry]

Why not just keep the RB20 and push 300-350bhp or so? Spend decent money on the chassis and have a well balanced motor out of it.

[Pete C]

An RB25 conversion would be much easier - you can still get a lot of power out of them with relative ease :)

[arry]

when the rb20 comes out... how much would that be ?

Stay out of it you - you're not doing that conversion before me :whip::p

[Razzario]

Stay out of it you - you're not doing that conversion before me :whip::p

but don't some rb20's make 250bhp with just a filter and exhaust??? i want one

[Pete C]

Stay out of it you - you're not doing that conversion before me :whip::p


but don't some rb20's make 250bhp with just a filter and exhaust??? i want one

Kiruji has already beaten both of you to it :p

[Razzario]

Kiruji has already beaten both of you to it :p

hell i'm no innovator... i just want to go quick

[arry]

Kiruji has already beaten both of you to it :p

That's Greg though, don't mind that, just not Andy :p

[Ron Jeremy]

I may have been misled then, I was told the RB20 wan't up to the job. But then I suppose looking at JRtunings, that's pretty much up to it. I suppose the deciding factor will be how much dave actually gets!

[Razzario]

That's Greg though, don't mind that, just not Andy :p

thats like a red rag to a bull is that :wack:

[arry]

G'wan then dooo eeiit, I don't think you got the grapes :p

[Ron Jeremy]

Why not just keep the RB20 and push 300-350bhp or so? Spend decent money on the chassis and have a well balanced motor out of it.

What sort of shopping list would I need for the RB20 then Arry?

[Fake Ben Taylor]

si keep the rb20 its the better revving of the crowd which imo for track is what you want.

350 - 400hp is also easily doable with little money. bigger turbo, injectors, exhaust and a remap (trl can map std ecu), fmic and a walbro could see you there :nod:

[joney]

I'd maybe be tempted by the smaller engine if it is any lighter, and a few things I'd try and do would be using alloy piping instead of samco everywhere as it is much lighter... you'd probably save 20kg if the whole eninge bay was done in hard piping... on a 1" tube swaping to ally saves 2kg for a 70cm hose :eek:

I'd put a lot of effort into getting the handling and aero sorted instead of just big power, so for me the route would be fully enclosed inlet and exhaust ducts for the rad/IC and a flat bottom, and a weld in cage. Getting the thing corner weighted makes a huge difference if you have adjustable suspension and stuff you can move like battery and an alloy fuel tank... getting the ballance can make up for a few hundred bhp difference on track IMO/experience.

[Ron Jeremy]

I've just spoken to my partner in crime and we've agreed that the RB20 is staying. Wich is a shame cos I wanted it for another little plan.....

If we buy an RB26 that's 2 grand gone, which could be better spent on tuning the RB20 and getting the handling right. This is purely for fun, not for massive power figures so a good 300-400bhp is really all we want. I think I got carried away writing my 3 page shopping list last night!

So, what turbo, injectors are best? would a GT28Rs be suitable? 440's for the injectors? I'm a bit lost now really!

[Pete C]

IIRC the RB20 uses the same type of injectors as the S14 SR (top feed, high impedance), so you wouldn't be able to use RB26 444s (top feed low impedance, same as CA) unless you also wired in a dropping resistor pack...

[Fake Ben Taylor]

rb20 uses same injectors as s13 and rb26.......at least james' does.

turbo wise i think if the rb20 one is the same as rb25 then http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Garrett-Turbo-T3-T4E-RB25DET-Skyline-GTS-T-Upgrade_W0QQitemZ130093603871QQihZ003QQcategoryZ72 205QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem wouldnt be a bad idea:)

[Pete C]

rb20 uses same injectors as s13 and rb26.......at least james' does.

Ah right, I thought the 20 and the 25 used high impedance injectors :confused:

[Fake Ben Taylor]

Ah right, I thought the 20 and the 25 used high impedance injectors :confused:

the 25 uses s14 side feed injectors:nod:

i cant say for certain as james' may have been converted but its using top feed injectors:)

[TheNickos]

There's always RIPS in NZ for Engine options......

[jrtuning]

I've just spoken to my partner in crime and we've agreed that the RB20 is staying. Wich is a shame cos I wanted it for another little plan.....

If we buy an RB26 that's 2 grand gone, which could be better spent on tuning the RB20 and getting the handling right. This is purely for fun, not for massive power figures so a good 300-400bhp is really all we want. I think I got carried away writing my 3 page shopping list last night!

So, what turbo, injectors are best? would a GT28Rs be suitable? 440's for the injectors? I'm a bit lost now really!


i was a bit sleepy when dave came round to mine and told me he'd bought a skyline as i hadnt slept for quite a while :wack: , do you have a set budgert? pm me if you dont want these yobbo's to know about it as it would help with the advice given

engine wise id say either keep the RB20 or if you did want to swap fit an RB25 as it was an idea i had for mine at one point as it slots straight in just need to switch the wiring loom and ecu over and you have a much stonger gearbox to boot :nod:

that said the RB20 has proved pretty darn good in my experience :thumbs:

injectors get some GTR 440's ive got a set here but there going with the car :(
turbo, 2835 that i have is a bit laggy but pulls very strong when on boost, another popular choice is the 2530 and 2540 which are less laggy but dont give as much top end.

management, get TRL to map the standard ECU total cost will be about 400pound

engine itself, you DEFINATELY want a metal HG and ideally some ARP headblots, i personally would pull it out and fit some forged pistons as the engine is most likely quite old and tired and you dont want to spend ages getting the car ready go to your first trackday and have it blow up 20mins into the day :cry: , id definately advise new bearings and oil pump, if you were looking origionally at throwing an RB26 in though id say you can afford to have a quick rebuild with all vital parts seen to

gearbox, RB20 box is about as good as the s13/s14 box which isnt great, im about 94% sure the RB25 box fits though and this can take a lot more abuse, a lot of the strain on the box depends on not just your power output but how severely it comes in, if you have a 2540 running 350bhp quite smoothly it shouldnt be too much of a problem really, then again it depends on the budget as a PPG 5 gear dog box would be nice :D

clutch, id say go for something like an exedy paddle clutch or simmilar, mine has a semi mettalic GTR clutch in which has done the job perfectly and thats along with being drifted quite severley in the hands of the previous owner too.

diff, if its a track car you want id say go for a 1.5 or 2way diff definately :nod: they pop up all the time on driftworks, and s13/s14 diff will fit if you use the 6bolt driveshafts too (skyline diff has a 5bolt driveshaft pattern) and you also need the right backplate too

brakes, again all depends on the budget, in a perfect world 356mm all round with 8pot fronts and 6pot rears, but standard calipers and 330mm discs up front and the standard R32/Z32 rears with a good pad selection will suffice

suspension, if its a trackcar this is where you wana be splashing out :nod: , decent quality coilovers are a must, ARB's, poly bushes everywhere, uprated steering rack bushes and steering collumn disc, tien tie rod with anti bump steer rod ends, front and rear camber arms, front and rear TC arms, rear toe arms, solid subframe bushes, remove the shitty HICAS crap and all its pipework, the s14 rear subframe will fit if you want which means you fully do away with the HICAS without useing a locking bar and also the TOE arms a much thicker im led to beleive, also if you have an S14 subframe use solid diff bushes, uprated engine and gearbox mounts, roll cage, welded in will be stronger but you dont get the option to reshell with it unless you want to cut the legs off and re-weld new bits in which isnt good :down: if youve got the time and can be arsed fully seam weld the car and perhaps put some extra bracing in chassis weak points :nod:

interior, a good set of comfy but supportive bucket seats is a must and decent quality harnesses, steering wheel guages fire extinguisher etc all good :thumbs: , if its a track car id strip EVERYTHING you dont need out and bin it, its the lightest of the skylines but every little helps as tesco say and if your fitting a rollcage etc all this stuff adds to the weight of the car so if its not needed then bin it :nod:

wheels + tyres, get some lightweight 17's and use slicks, then can be easily bought for about 100 for a set on ebay as my shed is testament too :wack: , infact me and carl got 11brand new slicks for 80pound :eek: you need a rollcage with most trackday companies to use slicks but youd be silly not to get one anyway

if theres anything else ive missed just holla :D

[doz]

RB20 is a great engine, like ben said, they are the revier of the RB group.

[SteveCarter200]

RB20s use 270cc top feed, high impedance injectors so GTR 444s (top feed, low impedance) arent a straight swap as you need to wire in the resistor pack from a GTR as well. This is only relevant if you are using a plug in ECU like a PFC. A non plug in ECU like VEMS supports low impedance injectors so GTRs will work fine.