View Full Version : FWD vs RWD
Whats the diffrence then between RWd and FWD, before one of u say it, I know FWD means the front wheels are powered, and RWD... and I also know that RWD is great fun, but other than that, is there better traction or....?
Munds
Im learning stuff every day with u guys.... and since i've been reading what you guys say, its been costing me alot too!!!!!:mad: :rolleyes:
front wheel drive = scrabble scrabble scrabble :D
Nah, personally i think RWD is better balanced and better handling.
Having said that - a bad driver in a rear wheel drive car isnt a good idea.......... a front wheel drive car is far more forgiving
maximus200sx
20-01-2003, 20:09
Its not just a case of FWD or RWD, its the whole package, truth be known 4WD is the best if you have a choice. Basically the car needs to be balanced, and then it needs good tyres, the suspension etc etc......
I love caning FWD cars, but not ones with lots of understeer, same for rear wheel drive cars, too much oversteer is no fun either. You need a good balance then its down to the driver.
If you have mega power FWD is no good because of torque steer, wants to go in a straight line as soon as you put the power down, but then again if you have mega power in a RWD and floor it on a bend then it can break loose and that aint no fun either...
So I guess its suck it and see! All down to personnal preference!
Decent 4WD is the bollox! But it has drawbacks too!
Paul_S13
20-01-2003, 20:44
Originally posted by maximus200sx
but then again if you have mega power in a RWD and floor it on a bend then it can break loose and that aint no fun either...
Oh I dunno, I think its great fun :D
Also RWD is better at getting the power down if your doing quick starts (not as good as 4wd of course) because the law of physics is on your side, and you start to move the weight transfers to the back of the car pressing the rear wheels harder to the ground. :)
thanks for all your answers.
So if I put some big tyres on the back, say 225 or bigger and 205 on the front, traction should be alot better?
My car was in for a service today and i got a lovely :rolleyes: Almera. I defy anyone to crash that bloody thing with Front Wheel Drive (unless someone hits you, lol) its all scrabbly scrabbly where is the grip. But you know exactly what its gonna do every second you drive it. Understeer, lol
>So if I put some big tyres on the back, say 225 or bigger and 205 on the front, traction should be alot better?
As long as you get the suspension set up correctly, yes.
RWD is much better IMHO
Having driven most FWD cars around, I still choose RWD...
It steers you around corners, not thru the apex!
depends on the car my r5gt turbo would slaughter any 200sx round the twisties, it is just so nimble!!!
but again its not a fair comparison s14 weighs in at 1200kg ish my r5 was 600 odd kilos so the 200bhp i had in that was equal to something silly like 300+ kilos per tonne which made it quite nippy
understeer!!! just let off and you get the arse out simple!!! loads of fun, unless in a mondeo then it all gets rather boring and silly!
IMO the front wheels have quite enough to do just steering the car without having to drag it along as well ;)
I'll never own a FWD car again...power oversteer? not bloody likely!
Saying that I'd take on anyone in my old 306 on the twisties (a la scooby :p ) much easier to drive.
RWD is for real men ;) :p :D
think everyone's said it here, FWD is realistically safer cos its a lot less easy to loose control of it initially. RWD is safer if you know what your doing cos when you loose control you ain't going in a straight line towards the ditch, have to say, much as I love my 2 ***** it isn't as good at going round the twisties as my old Volvo 480 was (225/55/15 Toyo Tyres all round, Stiffened and lowered by 40 mm - Camber on fronts but not rears fettled with) mind you that was exceptional, it's better than my old R5 GTT which was great until you put your foot down, then you went in a straight line towards wherever the front of the car was pointing at at the time (19psi boost pressure), its a lot sweeter than my old BM 318 which was to put it bluntly viscous, I don't think there's many people could actually drift that damn thing, as soon as it started oversteering that was it it spun, its not as easy to get the 2 hundies back end out or skidding as it is on the chevette (welded up diff) but when it comes out I find it just as easy to control... so personal choice I think, I'd rather see a novice driver behind the wheel of something Fwd I think though but I think RWD is generally safer when you know what your up to
Edited to say: one of my mates has a thing about doing up Yugo 45's with 1300CC fiat engines, sitting in the passanger seat of this beast over Hard Knock Pass in the Lakes has to be one of the scariest experiences of my life, how does Lift off oversteer, with the Front Wheels Scrabbling for grip as well sound when there's a couple of hundred foot drop on one side... mind you it was impressive the way he kept up with the Talbot Samba ;)
Imran Tunio
21-01-2003, 01:06
Originally posted by SKIDZ
depends on the car my r5gt turbo would slaughter any 200sx round the twisties, it is just so nimble!!!
but again its not a fair comparison s14 weighs in at 1200kg ish my r5 was 600 odd kilos so the 200bhp i had in that was equal to something silly like 300+ kilos per tonne which made it quite nippy
understeer!!! just let off and you get the arse out simple!!! loads of fun, unless in a mondeo then it all gets rather boring and silly!
I can testify to that my 5 would kill my 200 in the twisties, it was so nimble, the old mini, although fwd is one of the best handling cars ever made.:mad:
dobergoose
21-01-2003, 01:18
Front wheel drive is only more popular because, its cheaper to produce, more economical on fuel, saves space and safer in the wet for the masses. Dull Dull Dull.
Rear wheel drive = fun
Win the arguement everytime, supercars that are front wheel drive? F1? Drag racing?
Even with 4wd, escort cossies are 60% rear 40% front, why not 50/50.
maximus200sx
21-01-2003, 07:13
Originally posted by Imran Tunio
I can testify to that my 5 would kill my 200 in the twisties, it was so nimble, the old mini, although fwd is one of the best handling cars ever made.:mad:
TOO TRUE! I rate the Mini as one of the most fun cars to drive, the original 10" wheels though. I used to go chicken oriental in the wet with it. So much control, floor it, understeer, back off, oversteer, and my old 998cc used to cane most stuff off the lights, but then it did red line at about 65MPH, lol. But there's a lot of fun to be had in a RWD car, but LSD helps!
There isn't any "real" answer to which is best, because it depends on so many things, in a straight line pure acceleration test RWD has it, well 4WD, and power to weight ratios make all the difference, so that makes bikes faster still, oops I said I wouldn't make any more pro bike comments on this site........
So I have two projects on the go, my 200SX, doing the motor this weekend, and a Mini needing lots of body panels, engine, roll cage, wheels, suspension, brakes argh, the list goes on and on. But with the Mini all the parts cost peanuts, whereas the Nissan, HOW MUCH FOR A GASKET SET!!!!!!!
i bought a mini for an ex ohhhh8years ago or so, im 6ft 2 and i fitted in a dream couldnt stop laughing from the moment i got in till about 1hr after i got out i loved the bloody thing bright orange, little mags and a bloody great hole in the floor, come to think of it, wing,boot doors pretty much everywhere spent months rebuilding it split up and the cow sold it:eek:
classic motor, would love another but lack of room, anybody interested in a bmw 320. bauer convertable project? so i can have some space back;)
Loads of you have made comments about really twisty roads and the worth of FWD over RWD...
Having come from the agency where I go me grubbies on FWD cars all the time, and had plenty of very twisties to go down, I still would say that the Starion would kill off most things...
THen again, maybe it is the left foot braking??? :confused:
AshT_200
21-01-2003, 10:16
I can think of some FWD cars that are pretty damn good around the twisties.
Lotus ELAN
Ford Focus RS
Honda Civic Type R
Honda Integra Type R
But I guess they have their limits. Could the Ford be made any better? :confused:
dobergoose
21-01-2003, 12:10
Originally posted by AshT_200
I can think of some FWD cars that are pretty damn good around the twisties.
Lotus ELAN
Ford Focus RS
Honda Civic Type R
Honda Integra Type R
But I guess they have their limits. Could the Ford be made any better? :confused:
how well would they go round corners with an extra 100bhp
PazzaAE86
21-01-2003, 14:15
ST24 Mondeo's handle fantastically, despite what you may of heard.. Ask a few guys on here who have seen our Mondeo ST24 on the airfield slaloms we used to do :D As mentioned before, Front Wheel Drive is very forgiving and Mondeo is no exception.
I like Front Wheel Drive, it can be made to handle awesomely, everybit as good as other platforms.. Take the Pre-WRC Xsara.. When it was allowed to run in accordance to the FIA rules, it won, every single time. (Front wheel drive)
RWD is just plain more fun however and from what ive read, its easier to set up..
Paz
Steve(S14a)
21-01-2003, 14:49
I'm sorry, but I think there's a lot of teary eyed reminiscing going on here which is clouding many peoples judgement.
My r5 etc would kill the my 200 in the twisties. Rubbish.
Standard r5 vs standard 200. 200 wins.
Tuned r5 vs tuned 200 (suspension inc. as standard suspension is admittidely crap). 200 wins.
I had a pug 205 1.9 gti, low ratio gear box, lightened blah blah blah and although undoubtedly it was quick, it was not THAT quick.
OK, so a modded r5 or pug with sorted suspension and its low weight is going to be able to change direction easier than a tuned 200 line and as a result carry more speed round corners due to less weight shifting around the suspension. I admit that they may also be quick in a straight line too with the right mods.
But:
Let's not forget that a 200 isn't THAT heavy and can easily be lightened by 50-60kgs without being unfair and resorting to carbon, stripping of interior etc. A sorted suspension setup does wonders for its cornering and its straight line speed when highly tuned will always be superior.
I am not saying that a tuned 200 will go round a corner faster than a tuned r5 etc, what i'm saying is that in real world conditions, the straights that tend to lie in between the corners ( ;) ) will give the 200 the advantage.
I used to race very fast rwd cars all the time, and even if the driver was good and could push to the limit, my pug could corner just as fast, if not faster, but as soon as we exited the corner..... whooooosh - the rwd car was at the next bend and that was the last I saw of them.
Obviously if there was more road length in bends than there were in straight lines, things might have been different
;)
Unfortunately, the real world isn't like that; else we would all be driving go-karts! :D
One word needed
Donuts !!!!!! :D :D :D
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Steve(S14a)
[B]I'm sorry, but I think there's a lot of teary eyed reminiscing going on here which is clouding many peoples judgement.
My r5 etc would kill my 200 in the twisties. Rubbish.(prove it!!!!)
i think i should know i have both???
OH AND WHAT DO I KNOW, id put my r5 against anything on this board round twisties, put your money where your mouth is, but let me put me gearbox back in 1st!!!
Standard r5 vs standard 200. 200 wins.?????????
Tuned r5 vs tuned 200 (suspension inc. as standard suspension is admittidely crap). 200 wins. isnt crap just a little bit loppy, it lets you know whats going on, its not irrational, sensitive enough for a standard car, infact quite good for a standard car
I had a pug 205 1.9 gti, low ratio gear box, lightened blah blah blah and although undoubtedly it was quick, it was not THAT quick.
NO one has said enything about straight line speed etc of course the 200 is going to be better, ;)
maximus200sx
21-01-2003, 16:41
Its gotta be down to the driver not the car. If you prefer RWD or FWD then fair play. I think its more down to what you want to do with it and your driving style.
Personnaly I love FWD, in a decent car that is.
I also love RWD, again in a decent car, not some unbalance pile of poo that just wants to spin constantly, a nice drift is hard to beat, but you can drift a FWD car too!
4WD, well never owned a 4WD car but driven plenty of mates cars, Audis mostly, and they are flipping great too!
Then perhaps my biggest love of all is bikes, the rush from caning my Fireblade is just too hard to beat!
So there's my tuppence! If its got an engine I'll have a go, even if it is a 1.2 Corsa, you can have fun in anything, if you try hard enough!
Something else I want to try is Microlights, or even paramotoring (big fan on your back and a parachute) I figure its gotta be fun too!
dobergoose
21-01-2003, 17:06
Originally posted by PazzaAE86
Take the Pre-WRC Xsara.. When it was allowed to run in accordance to the FIA rules, it won, every single time. (Front wheel drive)
Didnt it only win on dry tarmac?
That was the same as the saxo f2 it done better than a lot of 4wd cars classes above it!!
Imran Tunio
21-01-2003, 17:27
The ford Mondeo touring car was a superbly balanced fwd car. I saw it lap croft circuit in 1min 20, which was faster than the lardy TVR cerbera speed 12:eek:
I also watch a lot of rallycross, and there are some well set up dare I say it fwd Nova's and corsa's.
The quickest car I have ever seen though was a 780+BHP 4wd RS200, damn fast.
AshT_200
21-01-2003, 17:35
Originally posted by dobergoose
how well would they go round corners with an extra 100bhp
How well would a std S13 or 14 go around corners with an extra 100 hp?
PazzaAE86
21-01-2003, 18:35
Originally posted by dobergoose
Didnt it only win on dry tarmac?
Yes.
I believe those were the rules stipulated by the governing bodies for Non WRC spec cars, ie they can only compete on Tarmac Stages. In this case, the Xsara isnt 4WD and so doesnt fall within the WRC regulations and therefore it isnt allowed to run every stage.
Paz
Originally posted by Leon
RWD is much better IMHO
Having driven most FWD cars around, I still choose RWD...
It steers you around corners, not thru the apex!
says mr.prelude himself. :p
Originally posted by ATrull
says mr.prelude himself. :p
:D ... you wait ... next he'll be after your woman :D :D
Originally posted by maximus200sx
Its not just a case of FWD or RWD, its the whole package, truth be known 4WD is the best if you have a choice.
Funny that all track-based motorsport is RWD then....
I just imagine what I'd prefer in a go kart...
RWD or FWD? or even 4WD... RWD has the best system for transfering power to the wheels, and when its out of control you can still influence what happens to a relatively large degree.
4WD is good for higher power because its more grippy, but then there are larger trans losses and often understeer.
FWD is easy to learn but bloody hard to master IMO, when things go wrong there's not much you can do but keep trying the sam thing but with just a little less power than before... if it doesn't work you fall off the road.
I think effectively it goes like this - less than 120hp and FWD has it, more than 120hp and RWD becomes ideal, more than 220hp and 4WD starts to become attractive.
I like RWD cuz like everyone has said its the most fun. fun is better than speed to me.
Originally posted by seb
Funny that all track-based motorsport is RWD then....
well in theory its better because traction is improved ..... Ideally 48 wheeled drive would be awesome and would grip like whore to your ..... well you know. .... but with 48wheels driving your 200php isnt going far after its shared its self out amoungst all those wheels ..... which is the downfall of 4wd .. weight and transmission loss.
RWD is the ultimate compramise.
Originally posted by ATrull
says mr.prelude himself. :p
Like I said on the other thread, I do not have to explain myself to anyone.
And I stick by the comments made above. RWD is a better way of doing things.
Originally posted by Leon
Like I said on the other thread, I do not have to explain myself to anyone.
And I stick by the comments made above. RWD is a better way of doing things.
but j'accuse!!!1
:smash:
:wave:
:D
Originally posted by Leon
Like I said on the other thread, I do not have to explain myself to anyone.
And I stick by the comments made above. RWD is a better way of doing things.
if you want to go fast yeah, not if you want a cheap run about that's good on juice or if you plan on driving round places with bad traction etc... pros and cons to everything eh m8 ? ;)
Originally posted by ATrull
but j'accuse!!!1
:smash:
:wave:
:D
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by seb
Funny that all track-based motorsport is RWD then....
except for the Uk premier motoring series. BTTC or touring cars.
watching them, you wouldn't know they were front wheel drive, they are so neutral. and then the go and demonstate lift off oversteer. through paddock hill bend:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy
Originally posted by Wak
IMO the front wheels have quite enough to do just steering the car without having to drag it along as well ;)
YES :nod:
Originally posted by Leon
RWD is much better IMHO
Having driven most FWD cars around, I still choose RWD...
It steers you around corners, not thru the apex!
YES :nod:
FWD Advantages
Less weight.
Less Transmission loss.
Easier to keep in a straight line
Rarely oversteers
CHEAPER
EASIER TO BUILD/MANUFACTUR
(The bottom 2 are why 90% of cars are FF)
RWD Advantages
Better launch balance
Get on power earlier in a corner
Less understeer
More balanced layout
More control when it starts to let go
Easier to get back once its let go
voodoo_melon
25-02-2004, 13:10
Originally posted by Leon
Like I said on the other thread, I do not have to explain myself to anyone. You don't have to, but it does seem a little odd how you say rwd is far superior but have just bought a fwd car because you want a change.
Angry Paul
25-02-2004, 14:14
Originally posted by Johnny
RWD is the ultimate compramise.
The most important phrase I've seen in this thread and the one that has the greatest bearing on the question...
The decision as to whether a car should be fwd/rwd/4wd is based upon the best compromise for that particular car and manufacturer.
This to a degree still applies to motorsport, hence BTCC are using fwd, with a limit of production cars and 300bhp, it is the best method.
F1, with very high power to weight ratios rwd is the best
Rallying where traction is at a premium with 4wd turbocharged, short wheelbase cars, 4wd is the best compromise.
In a road car of average power (100-200bhp) which end is driven really makes little difference to the performance of the car in the hands of the average driver.
It's down to personal preference which format we as drivers prefer, I'll always be a fan of rwd. I grew up on Mk1 Escorts and the like and it's in my blood...:thumbs:
Originally posted by voodoo_melon
You don't have to, but it does seem a little odd how you say rwd is far superior but have just bought a fwd car because you want a change.
a change from gas guzzling and regular repairs :(
I admit the drive isn't as competant as the Starion but I wasn't expecting it to be. The engine and box tho are major pluses.
dobergoose
25-02-2004, 17:19
Originally posted by Grim Turbo2
except for the Uk premier motoring series. BTTC or touring cars.
watching them, you wouldn't know they were front wheel drive, they are so neutral. and then the go and demonstate lift off oversteer. through paddock hill bend:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy
Thats why when BMW ran in BTCC they ran a weight penalty.:nod:
there is a genuine 200 bhp r5gt turbo in braintree it was unbeatable untill i got the cossie above 350 bhp. Ive been a passenger in another 200bhp r5 that was built by the same tuner. I have never been in a car that could drive so fast through corners bear in mind i worked for dragon auto sport and have driven some extremely fast cars.
I couldnt keep up with the r5 though the twistys he pulled away from me like i was standing and i wasnt hanging around - I only caught him up when we hit the braintree bypass and he hit the rev limiter in 5th at around 125 130ish and i naturaly sailed past him so i give r5s a wide berth if they look fast and ive got 380 bhp rwd but i can out drag him from a standing start only just though 2 car lengths at 120 mph
you cant compare a r5gt turbo to a 1.9 gti pug the r5 had 200bhp and the pug has 130 ish and is heavier.
as said elsewhere before each drive setup has its plus and minus but there is a very big over lap between the 2 but i f you have more power rwd is more advantageus
GmasterT
25-02-2004, 21:30
My saab will piss on anything on proper country B-roads, but is not a track car.
The datsun is better in most other aspects esp. on the flat.
FWD is more sensible not just in driving character etc. but for interior space, for instence, BMW 3series tranny tunnell is just :ghey: (And the H/Brake on the S13 isnt great)
FWD is much harder to drive fast and ultimately is 'slower' because of it.
But I can get the same smile in the saab: after turning into a corner, balancing the throttle, inside wheel with a bit of scrabble (its not a bad thing, only pussys are scared!) nailing it ready for the left hand bend and the jump (!) ah memories...
As I do in the datsun nailing the throttle and holding the arse out while i'm balancing the wheel and my accel. pedal setting myself up for either the next corner/tankslap (!) ah the danger...
Either way nailing any car hard, regardless of drive takes all sorts of ability, It depends on the Road, Driver & Conditions
Oh and 4WD is for LandRovers, not road cars for :ghey: who cant drive fast and skillfully :wack: :D
voodoo_melon
25-02-2004, 21:39
Originally posted by GmasterT
Either way nailing any car hard, regardless of drive takes all sorts of ability, It depends on the Road, Driver & Conditions:nod:
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