View Full Version : Fastest, cheapest most reliable car question
The Chef
10-05-2007, 21:43
Quite an open question mainly due to my complete lack of car knowledge.
I've got a say £5000 (less would be better but more is avalible if somethings irresitable) to spend on a summer car.
My first idea was a caterham/westfield stylie car it fits the fast bill and in most cases fits the cheap bill but reliablity... not sure.
What would the brains of SXOC recommend. I want it to be fast - faster than a 200sx, I also want it to be reliable - as I have no car knowledge. But contradictory to reliable - modding ablility (engine) would also be nice
fast reliable and cheap ? dude, pick two.
Pick any two - fast, cheap, reliable...
Getting all three is pretty rare...
Caterham would be OK, as long as you have a garage, and use of another car if it's raining...
MX5, soft top fun, reliable, but slow. But on a sunny day, with the roof down you won't care :) 5K would get you a BBR (factory mx5) turbo (and a couple of K change), which would prob give a standard 200 a run, and is moddable...
The Chef
10-05-2007, 21:59
Caterham would be OK, as long as you have a garage, and use of another car if it's raining...
Yeah - it will be garaged and is only for summer use - i.e i'll use the boring car for when it rains and trips to B&Q - basically practicality is not an issue
You could prob get a caterfield, but I dunno how quick a one it would be - and some of they are supposed to be a bit ropey - depends how much care and skill the bloke who built it had I guess!
Dunno what else to suggest, the trouble is if you don't know what to look for you could end up with a right old dog :(
The Chef
10-05-2007, 22:08
A lotus Elise also popped into my head (means about £7k)
- doubt they're that quick in a straight line but I hear fun around the corners
Think you may struggle to find a 'nice' elise for 7K - S1's are still going to close to 10K from a quick look at pistonheads....
The Chef
10-05-2007, 22:16
Think you may struggle to find a 'nice' elise for 7K - S1's are still going to close to 10K from a quick look at pistonheads....
I think you might be right - just used auto trader and the cheap ones seem to have loads of miles ~70,000 - on a car thats not known for its build quality.
Cheers for looking - i'll scout piston heads
gooo caterham!
just replace the engine with a rebuilt CA if it all does go wrong:p
Actual_Ben_Taylor
10-05-2007, 22:45
Get a motorbike.
spencer_foxwell
10-05-2007, 22:47
Get your arse over to www.mx5nutz.com and check out turbo mx5's, Eunos' they can be had for less than 5k but a 5k example would probably see around 200bhp and a great shell :)
Get a motorbike.
:nod: super fast, super cheap & fairly reliable
:nod: super fast, super cheap & fairly reliable
Honda bikes are better than the cars for reliability.:thumbs:
glen200sx
11-05-2007, 02:18
for 5 k? a vx220 turbo? are you stoned ? sorry no chance but an mx5 turbo is a fantastic idea or indeed a good standard one for 2k throttle bodies for 1100 some nice rotas (15 inch) for 500 quid and a BIG chunk of change and you got a fast car that sounds the bollox and is reliable too http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/leethal6326/?action=view¤t=finalfilm.flv thts sausages car from mx5nutz and listen to the damn thing
Sideways Danny
11-05-2007, 02:35
205 gti, every time, get one with a later engine already fitted for about £2k, there's loads of really really goood ones popping up recently
s13silvia
11-05-2007, 02:44
a 100k mile drifty s13 :wack:
glen200sx
11-05-2007, 02:45
205 gti, every time, get one with a later engine already fitted for about £2k, there's loads of really really goood ones popping up recently
dont take no notice of dan hes gay you see and enjoys the company of other men :P
Sideways Danny
11-05-2007, 03:22
dont take no notice of dan hes gay you see and enjoys the company of other men :P
i'm sorry, who drives the 2 seater :ghey: "batchelor" car?
The Chef
11-05-2007, 08:07
205 gti, every time, get one with a later engine already fitted for about £2k, there's loads of really really goood ones popping up recently
205 GTI (1.9) popped into my head just as I was drifting off to sleep. Although im now slightly worried by the latter comments of gayness.
I was dead set against an MX5 - i personally (PERSONALLY) had them down as the pinicle of gayness. I thought all back door butchers (one who recieves dodgy meat through the rear door) and hairdressers aspired to such a car - before stepping up to a vitara. But 200bhp in something that small has got to be fun.
2 avenues worth thinking about - cheers
People that make gay comments about MX5's have probably never even sat in one, let alone driven one - for driver experience they certainly kick the shit out of anything nissan has ever made ;)
200BHP in a '5 "feels" like a well sorted stage2 S14 acceleration wise, although I've never driven them back to back to directly compare... I was certainly pulling away from the yellow westfield down the straights at Brands, but I dunno what engine he had in that...
The Chef
11-05-2007, 09:34
People that make gay comments about MX5's have probably never even sat in one, let alone driven one
Yep, that was me - although I always kept my thoughts to my self (until a little earlier)
the idea is wearing on me - I'll do a bit of investigative work to 'learn' what I can about the turbo versions - and I hear they are RWD - always a bonus
£5K?? Can you get a MKIV Supra for that yet?? :confused:
If not Id say a Scoob. 205 GTI's arent fast unless they have an MI conversion IMO :nod: ;)
Sideways14a
11-05-2007, 09:55
5k and fast would have to require a visit to kit car land, although i aint to sure about reliability.
As for a scooby, hmm only fast up till about 70 or 80 then they act like parachutes.
Mx5 with a blower :cool:
Evo 1/2 hmmm ok ish.
Mr2 turbo similar to sx, same with Fiat coupe ect....
You could get a rover 220 turbo and for the 5 mins it ran ok for (and until you reached a part of the road that had bends ) it would be sort of swift.
s13silvia
11-05-2007, 10:40
£5K?? Can you get a MKIV Supra for that yet?? :confused:
too right mate, 3k will see you a nice n/a version, pretty sure the turbo could be had for 4-5k easy :nod:
If it has to be reliable then the 205 isn't really the car for you.
bah to perceived reliability and buy an rx7 - theres 300+bhp mildy modded ones out there for under 5k and with a fairly recent rebuild you'll be ok for 40,000+ miles and some trackdays. Don't get one of ebay/autotrader, watch the mazdarotaryclub for sale section theres a few gooduns popping up. Mine cost 4k with a rebuild 2000 miles ago, and no probs so far. Even the most 'reliable' car in the world could have a problem after you buy it, thats just sod's law. Good forum support and a sack of spanners sorts most hiccups. Why get an mx5 when you could fire flames at the hairdressers with a good ****el !?!
RTLKyuubi
11-05-2007, 11:02
If i was you id get a kit car. A friend of mine has 1 with a 2.0L sierra engine and its built like a brick shit house :wack:
Ryan.
too right mate, 3k will see you a nice n/a version, pretty sure the turbo could be had for 4-5k easy :nod:
:nod: you'd get a pretty good condition N/A for 5K.
or a pretty crap condition Turbo.
if you want the turbo, save up for the turbo though. if you fancy a turbo conversion later on your in for a new stronger gearbox (W85 only holds up to +- 350 torques)...a V161 getrag will cost you....about £6K new(!!) and £2K second hand. then a 2JZGTE costs you £1600 from fensport (with all anchilaries and full check, so thats quite good)
get a MX5 and supercharge it, or turbo it, can be done, lots of power, in a light car,
the handling is really good, and upgrading the suspension correctly will only make it better.
golf mk2 with a vr6 supercharged engine in .....
s13silvia
11-05-2007, 12:18
People that make gay comments about MX5's have probably never even sat in one, let alone driven one - for driver experience they certainly lick the shit out of anything nissan has ever made ;)
mmmmm :ghey:
they do have a slightly girly image, even though they may be the best drive in the world... if a special edition new pink beetle, or pink streetka offered the best drivers ride around, would you say it was a manly car?
E34 shape BMW M5 can be had for under £5k, has 340bhp, does 170mph and will be uber reliable and look mean!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1993-BMW-E34-M5-WHITE-3-8-litre-340bhp_W0QQitemZ280113991310QQihZ018QQcategoryZ983 7QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BMW-E34-M5-Daytona-Violet_W0QQitemZ160114914205QQihZ006QQcategoryZ983 7QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
mmmmm :ghey:
they do have a slightly girly image, even though they may be the best drive in the world... if a special edition new pink beetle, or pink streetka offered the best drivers ride around, would you say it was a manly car?
cock :thumbs:
They're perceived as girly because they're small. Mans cars like the 200sx, Skyline and Supra are big, big is manly. Small is girly.
Who said it was manly? you I think. Jon said it was driver experience.
My instructor at Brands was really impressed with mine, he commented on the grip and handling. That 360 Ferrari, should of got out the way as well.
If Ford offered a Street Ka with the good 1.9(?) Puma engine and sorted handling, I'd drive it. Not if it were pink though, but then I wouldn't own a pink car.
Oh I freely admit that my car is gay and that I also probably look a cock with my head clearing the screen line. However there's a big difference between looking and being a cock.
For 5k, I'd get an MX5 everyday. If you aren't interested in straight line speeds, it's great fun. It's great fun on the National Speed Limit twisties at legal speeds. Although Jon's turbo'd one is nice :)
glen200sx
11-05-2007, 13:26
mmmmm :ghey:
they do have a slightly girly image, even though they may be the best drive in the world... if a special edition new pink beetle, or pink streetka offered the best drivers ride around, would you say it was a manly car?
:indiff: lol do you own one have you driven a well sorted one gimme a well sorted turbo mx5 and itll tear most things a new one not alot of weight with an easily within reach 250 bhp mean alot of fun good in a straight line and blow drys at 140 mph cheers but more to the point YOU DRIVE AN N/A AUTO DAVID :P
spencer_foxwell
11-05-2007, 13:58
:indiff: lol do you own one have you driven a well sorted one gimme a well sorted turbo mx5 and itll tear most things a new one not alot of weight with an easily within reach 250 bhp mean alot of fun good in a straight line and blow drys at 140 mph cheers but more to the point YOU DRIVE AN N/A AUTO DAVID :P
You wouldn't wanna have 250 bhp on standard internals, you'd need a balanced and forged rebuild, also they cannot do 140mph. Maybe with a 1.8 diff they could get closer to that if not touch it but they are not designed for high speed.
By the way you'd need an uprated diff if you get a 5, if it's a 1.6 they eat the diffs even on standard power but having said that if you got one from nutz I'm sure they would already have that
glen200sx
11-05-2007, 14:14
of course they can take 250 bhp on standard internal infact there are a few people on nutz that are running such power on standard internals nor do they eat diffs either mine is still on its standard diff at 90k miles cheers if you need it turbo'ed get a begi stage 2 turbo and there you have 250 bhp and the reason by the way they can take that is the engine is a force induced engine with the turbo removed it has all the oil squirters turbo compression etc etc
Yep, that was me - although I always kept my thoughts to my self (until a little earlier)
the idea is wearing on me - I'll do a bit of investigative work to 'learn' what I can about the turbo versions - and I hear they are RWD - always a bonus
One of the guys near you (200sxspeedfreak - from hatfield I think) has a 1.6 on throttle bodies, I've got a 1.8 with a T25 on, when I fix it I'm happy to take you out in it if you want?
Spencer dont you mean LSD as 1.8's came with a open diff, and IIRC there is not much difference if any between 1.8 and 1.8 diffs, jap models had LSD uk modesl had open diff
creativename
12-05-2007, 19:46
you can buy my gto 3.0 v6 twin turbo:thumbs:
Spend £3k on a standard MX-5
Spend £800 on a ropey LS400
Spend £1200 fitting the 4.0L V8 engine from the LS400 into the MX-5
Sorted:nod: :D
Fast - With 240bhp and a silly amount of torque for a 1000kg car, oh yes!
Reliable - One of the most reliable engines ever built in a Mazda, should be great!
Cheap - Fits in the £5k budget.
Id say the SX is probably the best balance of all three (jack of all master of none but pretty close compromise), but prob also look at manual toyota soarers/supras and skylines.
Spend £3k on a standard MX-5
Spend £800 on a ropey LS400
Spend £1200 fitting the 4.0L V8 engine from the LS400 into the MX-5
Sorted:nod: :D
Fast - With 240bhp and a silly amount of torque for a 1000kg car, oh yes!
Reliable - One of the most reliable engines ever built in a Mazda, should be great!
Cheap - Fits in the £5k budget.
If I ever sort out my finances I might be interested in something like that. Can you get a manualk gearbox for it though i hate autos?
If I ever sort out my finances I might be interested in something like that. Can you get a manualk gearbox for it though i hate autos?
A supra gearbox can be made to fit fairly easily. I love autos, but if I had a 1UZ-FE powered MX-5 it would have to be a manual.
Actual_Ben_Taylor
12-05-2007, 20:36
Spend £3k on a standard MX-5
Spend £800 on a ropey LS400
Spend £1200 fitting the 4.0L V8 engine from the LS400 into the MX-5
Sorted:nod: :D
Fast - With 240bhp and a silly amount of torque for a 1000kg car, oh yes!
Reliable - One of the most reliable engines ever built in a Mazda, should be great!
Cheap - Fits in the £5k budget.
Yeah right...
So, you take a light, almost perfectly weighted, small roadster. Then replace the revvy light engine with a giant torquey 4 litre V8. Thereby ruining the handling, power delivery, drivability and complete essence of the car! :wack:
Would you also put this V8 in the RX7 too?! :p
So, you take a light, almost perfectly weighted, small roadster. Then replace the revvy light engine with a giant torquey 4 litre V8. Thereby ruining the handling, power delivery, drivability and complete essence of the car! :wack:
Would you also put this V8 in the RX7 too?! :p
The all alloy 1UZ-FE doesn't weigh much more than the 1.8 MX-5 engine;)
Actual_Ben_Taylor
12-05-2007, 22:42
:confused:
1200 quid to fit that engine in an mx5 is a joke
Would you also put this V8 in the RX7 too?! :p
:no:, you put an SR in that, right?
Seriously, I've said it many times before - there are 2 sorts of people in the world. People hwo think mx5's suck and are 'gay', and people who have driven one. I've yet to meet someone who's both.
Brilliant little cars, the lack of power really isn't an issue imho. 130bhp is great - a little more would be good, but you can't have everything :) 5k would get you a rather fine standard car, along the lines of Mr Wallers' for instance, or a well tuned early one :)
As mentioned, it's the same engine as is used in the turbo'd familia, so turbo'ing isn't a problem :)
Oh, and re. the diffs and top end - depends which one you get - some of them have a silly short final drive.
:no:, you put an SR in that, right?
Seriously, I've said it many times before - there are 2 sorts of people in the world. People hwo think mx5's suck and are 'gay', and people who have driven one. I've yet to meet someone who's both.
Brilliant little cars, the lack of power really isn't an issue imho. 130bhp is great - a little more would be good, but you can't have everything :) 5k would get you a rather fine standard car, along the lines of Mr Wallers' for instance, or a well tuned early one :)
As mentioned, it's the same engine as is used in the turbo'd familia, so turbo'ing isn't a problem :)
Oh, and re. the diffs and top end - depends which one you get - some of them have a silly short final drive.
Just wanted to endorse that :thumbs:
See it fits:D
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/2394/mx5v80047hj.jpg
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/5986/mx5v80025dh.jpg
Ill buy it off you in 3 years jem ;)
See it fits:D
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/2394/mx5v80047hj.jpg
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/5986/mx5v80025dh.jpg
You don't get it, do you? :wack:
Not everything needs shedloads more power/torque :no:
There's something intrinsically satisfying about wringing the neck of the 1.8/18 motors in the NA :nod:
Plus they sound awesome, even in standard form.
You don't get it, do you? :wack:
Not everything needs shedloads more power/torque :no:
There's something intrinsically satisfying about wringing the neck of the 1.8/18 motors in the NA :nod:
Plus they sound awesome, even in standard form.
I get it perfectly. I'm a HUGE fan on the standard MX-5 (yes I've driven a few, loved them all). I also loved my AW11 for the same reason. My Aw11 was in fact alot more fun than my Stage 1 S14a which I sold mainly because I found it too fast to have fun with, and I don't ride bikes anymore for the same reason!
But the opening post asked for, "I want it to be fast - faster than a 200sx" something that the MX-5 is not.
But the opening post asked for, "I want it to be fast - faster than a 200sx" something that the MX-5 is not.
If you weren't doing everything yourself, it would cost a *LOT* more than 1200 to fit the V8 into an MX5. Not only would you need custom engine mounts, complete rewire, new rad, moving the braking round, new linkages for the auto lever etc, but you'd also need a custom prop, as you would need to ditch the Power Plant Frame ('girder' that holds the diff to the gearbox and gives the car it's stiffness), you'd need a custom diff carrier, probably a custom diff, new longitudinal bracing, exhaust etc etc...
I'd say at a semi decent garage, you would be looking at at least 3K labour + any custom parts not from the donor car...
FFS it was only a suggestion. It's not like I'm holding a gun to his head saying he must do it:censored:
Seriously, I've said it many times before - there are 2 sorts of people in the world. People hwo think mx5's suck and are 'gay', and people who have driven one. I've yet to meet someone who's both.
:notworthy
New sig quote :) (but ammended for speeling ;))
lol :D I really need to learn to speel.
I still stand by my statement they don't need much mroe power though :no:
The whole point is that they ARE fast - but not due to the power, due to the chassis. What they loose out on the straights they often more than make up for in the corners, Wallers 'owned' (;) :D) and R33GTR and an Exige at Combe in his RS Ltd
but i'm not sure they were the best drivers in the world
but i'm not sure they were the best drivers in the world
Neither am I, but it was fun! :)
s13silvia
14-05-2007, 04:08
There's something intrinsically satisfying about wringing the neck of the 1.8/18 motors in the NA :nod:
Plus they sound awesome, even in standard form.
Im not disagreeing with your comment, i felt the same about the crx and civic... but im sure there would be something satisfying about having a v8 in a little car :wack: it would be a hoot to try and control... and the sound would be 10 times better :smitten:
if you had a good 8+k to waste on doing the conversion it probably would be alright for a laugh
MX5's feel fast as well, Fast can be percevied in 2 ways, actually fast and beating everythnig on the road ever made IMO thats faster than a Hyabusa type bike,
or percetion of fast, where you in a nippy low sports car that can go round corners faster than most cars you will actually see on the road, and will beat some cars in a drag race, but MX5s arent about top speed and drag racing thay are all about the twisties on a sunny day with the roof off.
since ownig my '5 ive never had so much fun at low speeds, below 70, and cos your so low in the perfect driving postion it fells 10x faster than anything else ive been in or driven. its a totally different experience to the SX etc.
The Chef
14-05-2007, 15:03
Right - thanks very much for all the suggestion(s), well an MX5. I'm warming to the idea - certainly fits the budget, I like the size and its mod-able. And with regards to the handeling - do they really handle that well? I've always been of the understanding the convertable cars do not handle particularly well as the roof, on a 'normal' car prevents twisting? - or is that an old wifes tail?
when I fix it [MX5 I presume] I'm happy to take you out in it if you want?
Thanks for the offer - I could be very interested in the near-ish future. Cheers!
BreadBin
14-05-2007, 16:28
And with regards to the handeling - do they really handle that well? I've always been of the understanding the convertable cars do not handle particularly well as the roof, on a 'normal' car prevents twisting? - or is that an old wifes tail?
That really applies to cars that weren't designed as a convertible but were later converted ie. Escort, Golf, BMW 3-series, Saab etc etc
Mikesx13
14-05-2007, 16:40
Another vote for the MX5, as said above a car doesn't need to go fast in a straight line to feel fast overall imo the people that have an intrinsic need to be faster than the next man in a straight line are slightly sad...
I don't like the look of the MX5 at all, think that as standard the lines are quite feminine but as soon as I have a bit of spare cash i'm buying one anyway :nod:
MX5's feel fast as well, Fast can be percevied in 2 ways, actually fast and beating everythnig on the road ever made IMO thats faster than a Hyabusa type bike,
or percetion of fast, where you in a nippy low sports car that can go round corners faster than most cars you will actually see on the road, and will beat some cars in a drag race, but MX5s arent about top speed and drag racing thay are all about the twisties on a sunny day with the roof off.
I can second that, its nice to be in something that feels fast but is actually fairly safe rather then something thats far too fast. Once you have been in a SX you start to lose perception of speed everything at road speed feels like a crawl. But give it two weeks and go in a MX and it feels fast even though its not.
Right - thanks very much for all the suggestion(s), well an MX5. I'm warming to the idea - certainly fits the budget, I like the size and its mod-able. And with regards to the handeling - do they really handle that well? I've always been of the understanding the convertable cars do not handle particularly well as the roof, on a 'normal' car prevents twisting? - or is that an old wifes tail?
Thanks for the offer - I could be very interested in the near-ish future. Cheers!
The MX5 has a large steel 'girder' thing that runs down the car - essentially it bolts the gearbox to the diff - and keeps everything taught... The later ones have got extra side to side bracing too (and special editions like Wallers' have got strut braces etc as standard). I (and Wallers) also have a half cage which stiffens things up even more (and are pretty essential for trackdays)...
I'm waiting on getting my manifold tapped for an EGT probe, once I get that done and it back together you are welcome mate :) It's not quite 'standard' though, so may not give the best impression ;)
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