View Full Version : Ebay Fraud - The Saga continues - Are bankers drafts really safe?????
Master_System
10-05-2007, 11:39
right following on from this thread:
http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=285190&highlight=corvette
basically my bro had a problem from the start - but then it got even worse.
He paid with a bankers draft from barclays with my bros name on it so it was paid into his HSBC account. the manager he spoke to about it said it was all good and tried to offer some loan/savings thingy for it.
so when my brother went to get some cash for a new motor the money wasnt there! he asked HSBC why he had no money from the draft and they said that barclays had canceled the draft. Yep they had just cancelled the draft and HSBC just said OK.
for those who know something about bankers - you CANNOT cancel them as its the banks money - and if there is a problem than the back can HOLD (HSBC) untill the problem is rectified.
OK. On further investigation HSBC reported that the drafts had been STOLEN and barclays had reverted the funds back to the buyer off the car. There are policies in the banking code that prevent this happening and who is liable if it does, but i wont go into this.
Basically man gives real draft to bro - takes car - reports draft stolen - gets money back - keeps car.
This has all been reported to the police - HSBC - and barclays fraud office and we are waiting (YAWN 12 days so far with nothing) for the copper to call back with some decent information.
The guy who has the car sent my bro a text last week saying - "got car back from garage today so it now starts will be in contact will bills and payment asap" so he obviously thinks he can just illegally cancel a draft -get the car fixed and pay the difference when he feels like it. this has been going on from at least three weeks now.
What makes matters worse he has just bought a £3500 scooter off ebay and has paid the bloke - with my bros money.
All organisations concerned with this matter are being typically shite, especially the police so we just have to sit tight while this bloke has £7000 AND my bros old car - you think the old bill would be on his case straight away as we have supplied name address and telephone number.
he lives in cheshire by the way, but want to hold SXOC pressure back untill we get some decent info from the police. :sxoc:
are there any other organisations i should report this to? finacial or other? if its not resolved by next week the solictor is going to have a call.
rant over.
Sorry to hear about your brothers misfortune :(
For other people more than anything else - you can cancel a bankers draft and they can bounce if the funds are not available at the time you try and draw down on one.
The money is only yours when it has cleared into your account (my missus recently sold a car by bankers draft and we checked with both banks involved on this). But that's no better than a cheque you say !?! not true - a cheque can take weeks to actually clear despite you "having" the money in your account
This happened to someone I know that was selling his Yamaha R1. He accepted £4500 in bankers drafts, went to the bank with them and they were accepted and the bloke took his bike. The bank contacted him a few days later to tell him they were void and he lost the bike. If it's not cash I don't hand over the goods until the cheque/bankers draft is cleared and in my account.
Kieran_e1
10-05-2007, 13:57
Sorry to hear about your brothers misfortune :(
For other people more than anything else - you can cancel a bankers draft and they can bounce if the funds are not available at the time you try and draw down on one.
The money is only yours when it has cleared into your account (my missus recently sold a car by bankers draft and we checked with both banks involved on this). But that's no better than a cheque you say !?! not true - a cheque can take weeks to actually clear despite you "having" the money in your account
in the nicest possible way thats nonsense. Bankers drafts are drawn on clear funds from someone's account. who ever gave you the info above was making it up
Grandpa Bob
10-05-2007, 14:50
I've always understood that if you issue a banker's draft to someone in payment the funds are immediately debited to your account, so the money becomes the bank's property. A cheque or draft is a promise to pay and I think both banks are at fault here. Barclays could easily establish from HSBC that the draft tendered at HSBC was the genuine article. If it were stolen HSBC wouldn't have had it in the first place.
You don't say how much is involved, but I'd be tempted to take Trading Standards advice with a view to a Small Claims action against Barclays/HSBC. Neither will relish the possible publicity. The "purchaser" needs a visit from the fraud squad, if they haven't all been seconded to the Safety Camera Partnership.
Legally, I think the draft is an unequivocal promise to pay the named party; I know that a few years ago HM Customs would only accept duty payments over a certain amount by banker's draft as distinct from trader's cheque. I'm sure they would not have done that if the banks has started bouncing drafts. In fact, they were treated as being as good as cash. If matey had drawn cash from Barclays and lost it I'm sure that would have been his tough luck!
Best of luck and do let us know the outcome.
I was under the impression that a valid bank draft is as good as cash? BUT, you need to check it is actually valid with the issuing branch :nod: :thumbs: :confused:
Master_System
10-05-2007, 15:24
the draft was valid when it was paid in - HSBC confirmed that - he said it was stolen after it was deposited. The draft still takes a few days to clear - what worries me is that he reported it stolen and the two banks concerned just 'canceled' it and did nothing more did not report it to the police or have internal inquiries about who stole etc. were talking £7000 here not just a few 100 quid.
Master_System
10-05-2007, 15:28
oh i forgot to add - after it was reported to HSBC they took lots of details and information - the next day they posted the draft BACK to my brother. We phoned up HSBC to ask why if it were stolen have you sent it back to the person who the draft is for??? its pretty clear my bro will get his money back but its a pain in the ass waiting for it - without a car
Have you not asked this bloke why he said the draft is stolen?
Master_System
10-05-2007, 17:44
he wont answer the phone or email....
in the nicest possible way thats nonsense. Bankers drafts are drawn on clear funds from someone's account. who ever gave you the info above was making it up
The person that gave me that info were managers at the two banks Barclays and HSBC :wack: whether they were making it up or not I'm inclined to believe them over anyone on the forum :smash:
he wont answer the phone or email....
Well I'd go to his place to get the car back.
The Chef
10-05-2007, 21:28
Well I'd go to his place to get the car back.
I'd have to agree - im not one for confrontations - unless its justified. And in this case its well and truely justified. the cnuts knicked your* car and you know where it is.:mad:
I hope you haven't sent the logbook off? I know theres a difference between legal and registered owner but still it's something? :confused:
RTLKyuubi
11-05-2007, 11:16
Technically hes stolen the car. Hes took it but didnt pay for it. Sue the **** :wack:
Ryan.
I'd be round there to deal with the matter. I'd simply go there, ask him for the car back, if he refuses I'd call the old bill stating that the car has been stolen, and you are currently pleading with the thief for its return. They'll soon be there to resolve the matter if they have any decency.
I'd be round there to deal with the matter. I'd simply go there, ask him for the car back, if he refuses I'd call the old bill stating that the car has been stolen, and you are currently pleading with the thief for its return. They'll soon be there to resolve the matter if they have any decency.
Agreed. Go to his house with your brother and a couple of friends and tell him you've come for the car. Get a notification on paper from the HSBC that the bankers draught has been cancelled, present it to him and then present it to the police when they arrive.
Kieran_e1
11-05-2007, 14:07
The person that gave me that info were managers at the two banks Barclays and HSBC :wack: whether they were making it up or not I'm inclined to believe them over anyone on the forum :smash:
then that's your look out but if you'd asked on this forum you would still have your car.
then that's your look out but if you'd asked on this forum you would still have your car.
eh? :confused: I think you have the wrong end of the stick :wack: My missus sold her car without any issues, we asked the two banks involved how to be 100% ok with a bankers draft and we were told that the only way to be sure is to wait till the money shows in your account (we were told this could take up to 5 working days but the money showed in one day as a provisional amount and then fully cleared the next day) - at that point there is no going back. That is what we did and it all went without a hitch :thumbs:
Anyway back on topic, I'd be inclined to go round and take the car back. If anything turns nasty call the cops and tell them someone is trying to car jack you - I'm pretty sure that'd get them out :smash:
Master_System
12-05-2007, 00:14
well to be honest - he doesnt want the car back...
barclays have dropped the case - so the police cant do anything at the moment. my father has spoken to the finacial Ombudsman and they are pursueing a case against barclays. basically if he gets away with just saying it was stolen and the bank doesnt follow anything up - it opens up a big can of worms to fraud etc.
agreed though about the car - the police didnt even want to go and look if the car was there as they had 'no evidence'. twats
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