View Full Version : Cubic Capacity vs. Forced Induction (Turbo/Supercharging)
I was thinking about this yesterday whilst driving on the motorway and couldn't decide between which is best. What dyou lot reckon?
shadowninja
23-12-2002, 20:46
if we're talking purely about acceleration from standstill, i'd much prefer 300bhp of NA (but not Honda style VTEC with bugg3r all bottom and mid end) to 300bhp of laggy turbo. having low end torque means you can get off the line quicker. snag about NA is the difficulty with serious tuning... costs a lot more to get same increases in bhp. I'm sure there are other disadvantages too.
now to have a I6, V6 or V8 with turbo system... best of both worlds i suppose :)
-Darren
'There's no substitute for cubic inches'
But, I find turbo cars more fun to drive. Also, FI is just such an efficient and lightweight way of squeezing out more power from a block.
Something big, v8, rumble-y ... I'd stick a funking great 6 litre V8 in my 200sx if it were practical :D
Originally posted by siranui
'There's no substitute for cubic inches'
Shouldn't that be, "There's no replacement for displacement." or something? :D
But give me a rumbly V8 or a howling V12 any day......just give me a fuel card to go with them too!
Nismo_Freak
24-12-2002, 06:05
Originally posted by andyf
Something big, v8, rumble-y ... I'd stick a funking great 6 litre V8 in my 200sx if it were practical :D
6.0 = 360cid ... thats not even a damn big block!
You want a motor... try a MTI Tuned 422cid (7.0L) that can make a Z06 Vette run a smooth 9 second time. All motor :)
Martin T
24-12-2002, 14:14
Depends on how many cubes you allready got really. I'd say if you got 3 litres or more then forced induction's fine.
For the best sound, an engine needs at least 6 Cylinders preferably a V8, though. 4 Valves (or more) per cylinder adds a nice edge to the noise and a turbo so you can hear it spool up:)
persoannly i like the idea of that hennesy tuned dodge viper
800bhp
2.8 sec 0-60
dunno top end but id guess quite a lot
8litre v10 twin turbo'd big bu66er!!!!
AAAARARGGGGHHHH! I can't decide, the TVR Speed 12 is pretty nippy. I'd have a 1000bhp skyline as well though :rolleyes:
Chris_thedr
24-12-2002, 18:31
bigger block means more weight... Not just in terms of acceleration, but going into corners (understeer:eek: ) too.
N/A cost's heaps to incerase hp
BUT low down torque of a big V8 is beautiful
For my money at the moment give me a 2.0 turbo and lets turn the boost up some more:D :D :D
ELMO Owen
25-12-2002, 12:17
i have always said V8's kick ass,reading street machine at the mo'......Drag racerRoger Johansson runs 6.5sec 1/4mile times.Wait for it......
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.706 cubic inches!!!!!!That must be close to 11 litre engine!!But it aint a door slammer by the looks of things.Imagine the torque figures!!you can see the wheel twisting the tyre up inside in one shot.fcuk me,say goodbye to ur skyline mate!:):):D:D
shadowninja
25-12-2002, 12:49
Originally posted by thedr
bigger block means more weight... Not just in terms of acceleration, but going into corners (understeer:eek: ) too.
N/A cost's heaps to incerase hp
BUT low down torque of a big V8 is beautiful
For my money at the moment give me a 2.0 turbo and lets turn the boost up some more:D :D :D
and they said torque's cheap :D
give me a turbo anyday :) just cant beat the sound of it - currently driving around in an audi a4 V6 (not quite a big american V8 or a jap straight six i know, but hey) and although its got a grunty sound to it i cant help myself but to let out a little "tssscchh" through me teeth when i change gear! :D :D
sad int it:rolleyes: :D
Martin T
25-12-2002, 15:25
Originally posted by arry
give me a turbo anyday :) just cant beat the sound of it - currently driving around in an audi a4 V6 (not quite a big american V8 or a jap straight six i know, but hey) and although its got a grunty sound to it i cant help myself but to let out a little "tssscchh" through me teeth when i change gear! :D :D
sad int it:rolleyes: :D
Not as sad as me doing it sometimes when I change gear in my diesel van:rolleyes:
maximus200sx
26-12-2002, 13:09
Lightweight and power = max acceleration, better handling etc.
Hmmm, looks like a bike is the way to go, as for the sound, straight through race can brwooaarrppp !!!
A combination of both worlds I think...
Size and turbo would be a good way to go - turbo each cylinder individually with its own air source...
Its the difference between the americans and the japanese! Americans tend not to be the most imaginative and therefor they see that throwing extra capacity at an engine helps boost the power figures and you know who cares about the extortionate fuel economy and resultant pollution cause it sounds nice and you dont need to worry about cornering cause at 55 mph you got plenty of time! The Japs however thought that turbos are a better way to go and found out that a smaller engine can match the power of a bigger heavier one, maybe not the torque but certainly the power! And they are cheaper to run and more efficient fuel wise. A lot off ppl on here worry when they drive their car hard and get 20 mpg out of it but how would you feel driving it slowly and getting 12mpg? i know id be scared to put my foot down in case i ran out of fuel! ill take a "small displacement" skyline or the likes!
Just my insignificant Opinion!
Rob
Nismo_Freak
26-12-2002, 18:52
Originally posted by robchopper50
Its the difference between the americans and the japanese! Americans tend not to be the most imaginative and therefor they see that throwing extra capacity at an engine helps boost the power figures and you know who cares about the extortionate fuel economy and resultant pollution cause it sounds nice and you dont need to worry about cornering cause at 55 mph you got plenty of time! The Japs however thought that turbos are a better way to go and found out that a smaller engine can match the power of a bigger heavier one, maybe not the torque but certainly the power! And they are cheaper to run and more efficient fuel wise. A lot off ppl on here worry when they drive their car hard and get 20 mpg out of it but how would you feel driving it slowly and getting 12mpg? i know id be scared to put my foot down in case i ran out of fuel! ill take a "small displacement" skyline or the likes!
Just my insignificant Opinion!
Rob
Americans have the edge in drag racing... I dont see Jap cars running 4s do you, trapping over 300 mph? Either way the Japanese can make better handling cars because they like smaller disp. motors. This is why I bought a Jap car.
Paul_S13
26-12-2002, 19:02
Originally posted by Nismo_Freak
Either way the Japanese can make better handling cars because they like smaller disp. motors. This is why I bought a Jap car.
I thought every nation makes cars that handle better than American cars. :p ;) :) :)
Originally posted by maximus200sx
Lightweight and power = max acceleration, better handling etc.
Hmmm, looks like a bike is the way to go, as for the sound, straight through race can brwooaarrppp !!!
As a biker, I'd like to point out something here on a biker to biker basis.
This is a CAR forum.
Remember cars? the four wheeled tin tops that always try to kill you by pulling out in front of you?
Perhaps you haven't noticed.
If you removed your head from your arse, you'd notice that not many folks are interested in your point of view.
feck off to crashhelmet.com if you want to bore the arse off everyone about how great bikes are.
And incidentally, I've done timed laps of Goodwood with the following; 265bhp Calibra Turbo vs Yamaha R1
The bike lost by over 2.5 seconds.
And thats with a Proddy club racer at the reigns.
Through the final chicane, the Calibra was over 30mph quicker.
So, maximus, to be blunt, we don't care, and it wasn't the original question was it?
Originally posted by maximus200sx
Lightweight and power = max acceleration, better handling etc.
Hmmm, looks like a bike is the way to go, as for the sound, straight through race can brwooaarrppp !!!
Very good, but did you vote in the poll? Your answer suggests you don't favour normal OR forced induction.
Oh, you didn't vote. You just wanted to get another pro-bike comment in, didn't you
shadowninja
26-12-2002, 23:55
Originally posted by Dunk
As a biker, I'd like to point out something here on a biker to biker basis.
This is a CAR forum.
Remember cars? the four wheeled tin tops that always try to kill you by pulling out in front of you?
Perhaps you haven't noticed.
If you removed your head from your arse, you'd notice that not many folks are interested in your point of view.
feck off to crashhelmet.com if you want to bore the arse off everyone about how great bikes are.
And incidentally, I've done timed laps of Goodwood with the following; 265bhp Calibra Turbo vs Yamaha R1
The bike lost by over 2.5 seconds.
And thats with a Proddy club racer at the reigns.
Through the final chicane, the Calibra was over 30mph quicker.
So, maximus, to be blunt, we don't care, and it wasn't the original question was it?
don't hold back will you, dunk! i guess you're still pissed off with the shopping cart on that site ;)
Originally posted by Dunk
265bhp Calibra Turbo vs Yamaha R1
The bike lost by over 2.5 seconds.
Through the final chicane, the Calibra was over 30mph quicker.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Beaten by a Vauxhall! And one with only 265bhp as well! I know someone who's got a Calibra 4x4 Turbo and it doesn't handle for toffee! My car handles better, and it's only RWD!
Mind you, that's in the dry :o :rolleyes: :D :D
SteveCarter200
27-12-2002, 09:10
Originally posted by pete_cotton
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Beaten by a Vauxhall! And one with only 265bhp as well! I know someone who's got a Calibra 4x4 Turbo and it doesn't handle for toffee! My car handles better, and it's only RWD!
Mind you, that's in the dry :o :rolleyes: :D :D
Dunk is a pretty good driver apparently, ex-rally and stuff.
Originally posted by SteveCarter200
Dunk is a pretty good driver apparently, ex-rally and stuff.
I don't doubt it. My mate in his Calibra is a pretty crap driver actually, so I guess that might be why he can't make a 4WD car corner better than a RWD one...
Lets not have another thread descend into slanging. Maximus has said he'll not make any more bike related posts, so lets just ignore the ones that are there.
Originally posted by paul_s13
I thought every nation makes cars that handle better than American cars. :p ;) :) :)
LOL :D Very true :p
I just like the idea of driving around off boost with a car with a 1.8 engine then onboost it gets bigger by help of the turbo :)
Colin Gibson
27-12-2002, 13:38
getting back to engines, does anyone know anything about the V8 and V12 engines in the 800 series BMWs ? (seem to remember the V12 was similar to the Mclaren F1 engine), these cars can be had for around the £10 000 region now, (£8000ish for the V8, 840 model)
Pretty heavy I think, but how much would it cost to say turbo the V8 and strip it out? (several hundred HP there surely!)
Originally posted by SteveCarter200
Dunk is a pretty good driver apparently, ex-rally and stuff.
Thank you darling.
£20 in the post to you.
The Calibra Turbo does actually handle though, not amazingly well - but the its daft level of grip it generates which is its major ace, along with the aerodynamics and 6 speed box.
As for the engine thing.
Both please.
5 litre Ford V8 racing engine from a GT40, with a pair of Turbos.
That'll do nicely thank you
Nismo_Freak
28-12-2002, 09:05
Originally posted by paul_s13
I thought every nation makes cars that handle better than American cars. :p ;) :) :)
Race a Z06 lately? Bone stock these would annihilate ANY production japanese vehicle (withen 100k US) in the 1/4 mile and on the track. .97g's stock lateral grip and with a 12.5 quarter mile time stock these cars are hard to beat. They weigh only 3000lbs. and put out 405hp.
Martin T
28-12-2002, 12:46
Yep the Vettes are grippy, and fast - but their handling is definately dangerous. And they cant touch a Lotus Esprit, stanging quarter of on the twisties. If you think that 0.97G is good, try 1.3g's for the Lotus Exige on standard road tyres on Nuremburg, or 1.1g's for an S2000.
Wheres all this myth about NA engines are expensive to tune.....
If you get the right engine in the first place it aint, a Chevy is super cheap to tune, no where near as much as a 2***** to tune, or a skyline or come to think of it anything turbo!
Oh the feelling of NA power that pins you in the seat at 1/3 throttle, and then nails you in place as the other butterfly and the other 2/3 come into play.
The sound of a 7 litre ticking over makes me go weak at the knees, but give me 11k revs Turbocharged any day :D VrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGG :D
Dave
Until you've experienced a decent Chevy your views are all bias ;)
And you can have CAM lag on your V8 to make you feel better, and when 3000rpm comes up, 7000 rpm is hit in a matter of around 2 seconds in more or less EVERY gear :D and this means 4 times the speed limit is posssible IF YOU BLINK!
Oh and the best bit about Chevy power, 5th gear ;)
Some punk comes along side you and tries to box you in when your tootling in the slow lane, and smiles at you as you do so, blemd off the throttle, nail it, cross both motorway lanes before you know whats going on then nail it past, he follows, a quick blip to 3rd, and no more daddy's boy M3 ******!!!
A good friend of mine has a GT40 which I have been in many a time. I have to admit it does sound the bollox but pales into insignificance compared to when I go to change gear at 9000rpm or 10500ish as it says on the rev counter. This bloke is however in the process of bringing a Porsche 917 into the country in Jan and I have a feeling this may be the ultimate. In the 60's these things were doing 248mph which ain't too shabby. It will hopefully be at the next TSC along with the GT40.
Originally posted by Richie
This bloke is however in the process of bringing a Porsche 917 into the country ...It will hopefully be at the next TSC along with the GT40.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D :eek: :D :D
Originally posted by Vez
, he follows, a quick blip to 3rd, and no more daddy's boy M3 ******!!!
ESP if on a slight bend, the tail will get him...
Nah just a straight line run :D
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