View Full Version : Going to strip a rotary, anyone want to see?
Hi all,
I'm off in a minute to start helping my mate remove, strip and rebuild his 13b rotary engine from his FD RX7.
Just wondered if anyone wants me to post a picture heavy progress thread in case you fancy seeing how all this spinny rotor stuff works.
I could stick it up on MazdaRotaryClub.com but there are a lot of similar threads on there so I thought you guys might like to see it instead.
It's hopefully going to be rebuilt with a few nice shiny bits too, depends how much i can convince him to spend. :)
So anyone wanna see?
Yes please :nod: fascinated by the 13b and want to see what one looks like inside :)
John Bennett
14-10-2006, 12:45
:cool: I've got the FD service manual and I've seen one it bits, but it'd be nice so see photographs of the process.
thats that sorted then. :)
i'll be back in about 5 hours, hopefully the engine will be ready to be removed by then. :)
:cool: I've got the FD service manual and I've seen one it bits, but it'd be nice so see photographs of the process.
FD service manual? :cool:
Does it go:
1. Take one look.
2. Take it to Pip or Re:Worx.
:wack:
Apparently once you get them apart, if you know what you are doing, it's reasonably quick* to rebuild them.
*Reasonably quick is relative, in the same way that in the history of the earth, humans haven't been around very long, and that Jamie Oliver is a bit of a tw@t... :wack:
ShawJohn
14-10-2006, 12:56
http://www.zgeek.com/forum/gallery/files/1/0/1/8/4/worthless_without_pics.gif
:p
Hell yeah, I'm up for this :thumbs:
Webcam of the rebuild would be even cooler!! :D
Go for it Dan :)
What happened to your FD in the end by the way?
Cheers
Rob
id love to see it aswell :nod:
Shaziman
14-10-2006, 13:14
Defo, would be uber interesting!
John Bennett
14-10-2006, 13:20
Here's the manual for those who need notes with their pictures :wack:
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=449950&page=1
Here's the manual for those who need notes with their pictures :wack:
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=449950&page=1
I'm surprised there isn't a manual just for the vacuum tubing :D
Dave
I'm surprised there isn't a manual just for the vacuum tubing :D
Dave
There is, but it's in a different place:
It's here (http://morro-bay.com/outdoor/losososoaks/6-18-01cb/dusky2-footed-wood-rat-nest.jpg)
:wack:
Sideways Danny
14-10-2006, 13:41
damn skippy
ShawJohn
14-10-2006, 13:41
I've got a WMV file of an RX8 rotary cuttaway engine somewhere that I did at the motorshow in 04 :thumbs:
Will dig it out :nod:
EDIT: Its 2.27mb in RAR format, can't host it yet as no FTP software on PC :(
anyone fancy doing the honours?
go for it dan - why not make a video too!
cheers
ash
right then, here goes.
I'll try and give as much info as possible, but only things which I am certain are right. I've stripped two RX7 engines and rebuilt one but my knowledge is still pretty rudimentary.
I noticed a couple of other Rotor heads on this thread already so I'm sure they can help fill in the blanks.
Ok, here is the offending article:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00602.jpg
The car is currently still running fine, but among other symptoms, it is producing a lot of white smoke on start-up and being very hard to start when warm, so we are predicting that we will find a water seal has gone. The owner (rich) wants to strip it down now and rebuild before things get worse and possibly cause more damage to the engine, hence costing more to rebuild.
here's the almost completely stock engine bay:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00603.jpg
The only modification is the large single air filter, a totally stock bay has a large black airbox at the front to the left of the intercooler shroud.
So first things first, drain the fluids:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00604.jpg
The oil came out very thin and runny, which means it probable has some coolant in it, another good reason to think a water seal has gone. I'm not entriely sure how or where the coolant could get into the oil in any great quantity, but unless Rich has been pouring it down the filler neck, it's definately got in there somewhere. (If people are not sure about the location of the internal water seals, oil seals etc,etc i will point them out once the engine is cracked open, so bear with me)
Take the front undertray off:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00605.jpg
These things are rare as hens teeth for some reason but they do a very useful job as far as cooling is concerned.
Take the gearbox undertray off for access
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00607.jpg
So you can get to this:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00606.jpg
While I was busy pulling bits off the car, rich wandered off and tried to get some of the 13 years off gunk off the metal undertray. Somehow he came back in ten minutes with this:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00609.jpg
I reckon he had a spare in his garage! madness.
Right, while waiting for all the fluids to drain fully, we got cracking in the engine bay. Took the strut brace off and removed the battery and battery tray:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00608.jpg
This part is pretty straight forward, you just disconnect everything around the periphery of the engine in preparation to lift it out (probably teaching most of you to suck eggs here)
Remove inlet elbow, intercooler pipe work:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00610.jpg
The red grounding kit on here is aftermarket, and it goes bloody EVERYWHERE! right pain in the arse.
remove air filter and associated pipework. The large pulley wheel you can see bottom left is the airpump, this is purely there to help with emissions, its one of the first things to remove when you start to modify the engine. both my previous cars never had it so its actually the first time ive seen one!
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00611.jpg
the turbos can stay on the engine until you lift it out, they are much easier to remove once you have a bit of room to move. They are located under a load of heatshields under that there airpump, opposite side of the engine to 200sx's. As this is the same side as the steering rack, you have to be careful if you buy a single turbo kit from the US, as their manifolds will sometimes foul on UK/Jap RHD cars. Lots of people make this mistake!
Remove the intercooler, only for more room to move really, I think the engine wouldcome out with it in situ but it is easy to remove.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00612.jpg
Take off alternator:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00613.jpg
Undo air con (lower) and power steering (upper) pumps:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00614.jpg
you dont need to disconnect either of these systems, once the pumps are off the engine you can just pull them up and away to one side to remove the engine. This save you getting power steering fluid everywhere and poisoning yourself on the aircon gas.
Diconnect fuel lines, making sure you mark which is which
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00615.jpg
there are probably loads of little connectors and bits and bobs I have not mentioned in the write up, but this is the boring bit really, cracking the engine open is much more fun, and besides, this isn't meant to be an exhaustive how-to.
thats as far as we got today, I had to get home to watch strictly come dancing :ghey: All we need to do now is disconnect the starter motor and clutch, undo bell housing, disconnect loom from the ecu, then undo the engine mount bolts and lift it out.
Possibly do it next week one evening, but definately no later than next weekend, weather dependant of course.
Oh and here's what happens when you lower the car off the axle stands onto a slightly sloped driveway withoutmaking sure you properly drained the fluids:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00616.jpg
hahahahaha wasn't me i promise.
EDIT: Whoops double post.
cool stuff, it doesnt look so hard in the pictures but im sure it is .
no it's really not. if you can use a spanner its just a case of knowing what to undo. :)
no it's really not. if you can use a spanner its just a case of knowing what to undo. :)
spanner ? lol i can do a few things :nod: but an engine rebuild isnt one of them yet. if i had room id buy a spare to mess about with :nod: .
great stuff dan, was that rich as in tricky's car?
No, different Rich, although i think he has a pretty monster project on the go too, was going to put a 13b-rew in an FC but now he has an FD shell that he is building up to some crazy spec.
That's a lovely looking car :smitten:
Looking forward to the internals :)
Dave
mestew87
15-10-2006, 11:12
If you wanted i could of helped you out with a a shot of the dvd set re-13b. Its a dvd set which goes through the build up of the 13B engine
Yep, I have that dvd set too. Very, very useful, especially when you re-assemble as you can make sure you get everything back in the right order!
You make that look far too easy.
My Bro and I had to replace the front bumper on his RX7 this weekend end. It took us the whole week end to do it.
The million bolts that held it on were rusted and fused together. Used everything, spanners, blowtorch, drill, swearing and stabbing it with a screw driver. In the end we used cutters and destroyed the old bumper and took a hacksaw to the bolts. :cry:
Ill post some pics later.
--Lorien--
16-10-2006, 11:18
Going to be watching this one! Very interesting so far, I know next to nothing about rotaries so any opportunity to build knowledge is good! :thumbs:
Davey3legs
16-10-2006, 11:28
Going to be watching this one! Very interesting so far, I know next to nothing about rotaries so any opportunity to build knowledge is good! :thumbs:
ditto :nod:
here’s my attempt at changing a rex bumper :wack:
Clicky. (http://hollaa.net/fdbumper/thedestructionstarts.html)
Good luck with the rebuild mate. :thumbs:
japdrifter
16-10-2006, 12:59
here’s my attempt at changing a rex bumper :wack:
Clicky. (http://hollaa.net/fdbumper/thedestructionstarts.html)
Good luck with the rebuild mate. :thumbs:
LOL...patience lad. shame coz i dont mind the standard bumpers on the rex.:wack:
Blimey gavin, your brother's poor car!!
If bolts are rusted up though there isnt much you can do I suppose. Did you try and bend the bumper at all? I pulled one off my first (front-end crashed) RX, as it was all mangled I couldn't get to the bolts, but I managed to bend the bumper totally inside out to get access. When it finally came off the car it popped back into shape! amazing stuff.
looked like this:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/Smooshie2.jpg
Was almost useable when it came off, aside from the lights.
Going to be watching this one! Very interesting so far, I know next to nothing about rotaries so any opportunity to build knowledge is good! :thumbs:
It'll get much more interesting once we crack the block open, the inside of a rotary engine is cooooooool. :thumbs:
Going to grab an engine crane tonight or tomorrow and pull the block out, hopefully strip the remaining ancillaries off this week, then take it to RX motors in blandford on Saturday to get the flywheel nut undone (54mm nut that takes several large sweaty men with long metal bars to undo usually)
so I should have some internal shots of the engine by next weekend if all goes to plan. This amazingly clement weather is helping too.
:eek: The bumper popped back into shape after that?? wow, that is amazing.
I did notice it was quite flexible.
we did try to bend the bumper but was a bit worried about damaging the wing.
The bumper we took off was knackered any way so I didn't feel too bad about destroying it. lol. That and it wasn't my car. ha ha.
Don't worry japdrifter we put a new standard one back on. :)
Nothing too exciting to post tonight, but I took a couple of pics so might as well show them to you.
I'll be getting the engine crane tomorrow night, and I just wanted to make sure the engine was ready to come out as I can only get the crane for one evening and don't want to spend all night getting those last fiddly nuts undone and not have time to use the crane.
Ok, got the starter motor off from the gearbox bell housing:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00619.jpg
Then you have to remove this little cover on the right:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00621.jpg
And rotate the flywheel/clutch assembly, removing the 6 bolts as you turn it, all through this eensy weensy hatch.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00620.jpg
You can see one of the holes the bolts were in, in this shot above, the bolts have already been removed.
We also removed the airpump:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00622.jpg
this was in an attempt to access the downpipe bolts, which wasn't entirely successful, so I undid the downpipe at the other end (attaching to the mid-pipe under the car) and we will have to try and slide the engine forward as it comes out to bring the downpipe out with it.
As we lift the engine out we may get better access to these bolts which will be handy.
Other things we removed but I didn't take pictures of were, erm, unplugged the ecu and pulled the loom through into the engine bay, unplugged the electrics from the far end of the gearbox and pulled the wires up into the engine bay, oh and we removed the 3 awkward bell housing bolts located around the top of the bell housing.
Because the 13b is such a small engine, it is mounted really far back, almost under the front of the windscreen, so the join betwwen the block and the bell housing is right up under the bulkhead and makes the bolts a real pain to get to. We left the two bolts that are easily accessable from under the car in place so the gearbox doesn't fall out of the car until we are ready to lift the engine. Also undid the two little 14mm bolts that are all that holds the engine in place. Yes, 2 little bolts, thats it, honest. :wack:
Thats it for tonight I think. :)
Razzario
16-10-2006, 22:32
can't wait to see the inards of that thing
yeah me too. :)
Should be saturday hopefully. cross those fingers everyone.
andyfield
16-10-2006, 23:32
Drexel @ forums.overclockers has done this and replaced the valve seals with pics and info so might be worth searching for?
Good luck :)
It's ok I know what i'm doing :) (he says confidently)
Um, there are no valves in a rotary though so i'm not entirely sure if you have your terms straight there. Cheers for the mention though.
(if its the same drexel I know him from the MRC too)
John Bennett
17-10-2006, 08:32
Is there a reason why the gearbox isn't lifted out with the engine in the RX-7 ?(i.e. it's easier not to, for some reason) :)
Also, do you know of anyone who'se fitted an RX-8 6-speed box?
I've never pulled them out together just because it is awkward to do I suppose John, we dont need the gearbox out, so we will leave it in the car. Plus i wouldnt fancy undoing the prop from the gear box whilst under the car, it's hard enough when you can stand on it and use a 2ft breaker bar!
Never heard of an rx8 box being used, they are totally different cars so I assume it would not be a straight swap, doesn't mean it hasn't been done though. :)
playworker
17-10-2006, 14:56
Also undid the two little 14mm bolts that are all that holds the engine in place. Yes, 2 little bolts, thats it, honest. :wack:
Same as a 200SX dude :)
Right it's late, i'm pretty knackered, so this one will be a little light on the text front.
Jack under gearbox to stop it hitting floor:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00623.jpg
Remove this (y pipe to turbos):
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00624.jpg
To get to the downpipe studs:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00625.jpg
And remove downpipe:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00627.jpg
(oh it looks so easy in pictures, the lower two downpipe studs were a NIGHTMARE, time between the two pictures above, about an hour!)
Undo any last little clips, connections etc, pull all loom bits and bobs out of harms way, oh and take the front bumper off cos the engine is so far back you can't reach it with a crane otherwise:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00626.jpg
Lift the bloody thing out, slowly:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00628.jpg
Admire a job well done:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00630.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00631.jpg
Teeny weeny turbo
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00632.jpg
clean the grease off your arms which by now reaches your elbows, and f**k off home to bed.
Taken around 9 hours to do this, not too shabby I reckon.
Right, I was going to take the stripped engine down to RX motors in Blandford on Saturday to crack it open, but the owner (rich) said something about having to go to his sisters wedding instead, i mean honestly, get your priorities right! :wack:
We may still strip off all the ancillaries on friday so I'll post that up, but the actual breaking open of the block probably wont be until NEXT saturday now, unless we can find a 54mm socket and one of those air gun things in the meantime.
ShawJohn
18-10-2006, 21:21
here's the video I did
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/shawjohn76/rx8.avi
ooh thats shiny!
So did you set that display piece up?
Davey3legs
19-10-2006, 14:02
Mint video :thumbs: I need to do some research on rotaries, that 'piston'/crank setup looks really wierd.
Now i am confused... how does it transmit drive to the flywheel when that centre cog stays still ?
because the centre cog is fixed, but the rotor is on an eccentric shaft (like a cam). The eccentric shaft comes through the centre of that centre cog.. You cant see it move because it is so shiny and smooth in that model. the centre cog is just there to make sure the rotor keeps turning properly without 'slipping' i think. :)
Right, FINALLY going to strip this down tonight, and get the flywheel nut cracked open tomorrow, so watch out for updates probably late tonight and sat evening. You'll get to see the internals saturday which should be good. I'll update it saturday while i'm watching strictly come dancing :ghey:
because the centre cog is fixed, but the rotor is on an eccentric shaft (like a cam). The eccentric shaft comes through the centre of that centre cog.. You cant see it move because it is so shiny and smooth in that model. the centre cog is just there to make sure the rotor keeps turning properly without 'slipping' i think. :)
Ahhh, gotya, cheers for the explaination :)
Ok, did pretty well tonight, so its another picture fest, this might run over into two posts depending on the limit.
I'll not bore you with too much wordiness, so here is the engine, took two of us to drag it out of the garage and onto the driveway pretty easily.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00640.jpg
Take the turbo pack off:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00643.jpg
We had to blow torch one bolt holding turbo y-pipe to manifold but it worked like a dream and that has been the toughest bolt of the whole job, well pleased!
Remove turbo manifold:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00645.jpg
Here you can see the rear rotor (left) is wet inside which confirms the whole idea of a water seal having gone (also the fact that the engine sloshes when you move it was a bit of a clue):
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00647.jpg
remove all the bumf from the front of the engine, water pump pulley wheel (the one with four bolts on the face):
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00641.jpg
Also get this p/s and a/c pump bracket off the side to get to the water pump:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00642.jpg
Remove water pump:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00644.jpg
Then bin all those black box things you can see, they are all twin turbo vacuum system related and its all going IN THE BIN! Singles are so much simpler!
Once the turbo pack is off there is nothing lower than the base of the block except the sump, so you can take that off:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00648.jpg
Stand it back on its feet, and remove the upper inlet manifold to reveal this:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00649.jpg
Arrgh! eugh! This is what is affectionately known as the 'rats nest' and it controls the sequential turbo system. Most of this will also be going in the bin!
Remove coil packs, ht leads and oil filler neck:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00650.jpg
We then took the lower inlet manifold off the opposite side of the engine (after removing the secondary injector rail) for access to the rats nest, not sure it was that helpful, but it got it out of the way:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00651.jpg
Undo a few retaining bolts, the primary injector housing, oil injectors and lots of vacuum pipes, and you get this lovely item:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00652.jpg
Thats rats nest, all injectors, and the main part of the loom.
now all you have left is this:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00653.jpg
Oh and a garage full of this:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00654.jpg
Cont on new post...
remove a couple more bits and bobs, oil filter and mount, spark plugs etc, and you have this:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00655.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00656.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00657.jpg
It's so tiny!
In fact, I only just hit 10 stone fully clothed and after a good meal, and I can quite comfortably do this:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00659.jpg
(lift the engine I mean, not look like a total retard, that takes even less effort.)
Good nights work I reckon, off to get it cracked open tomorrow...
(lift the engine I mean, not look like a total retard, that takes even less effort.)
I'm saying nothing :p
Thin, runny oil.. fuel pollution? Maybe the side seals have gone walkies (you'll soon find out) :) Was it puffing a smoke screen out when it was running?
I lost your number a while ago when I shut my bonnet on my phone.. if you still have mine send me a message or something!
Razzario
28-10-2006, 10:05
so much gubbins to make it all work... thats crazy
John Bennett
28-10-2006, 10:32
:cool:
Can you run the sequential system off some sort of electronic boost controller and ditch the rats nest. That's a terrifying amount of pipes :eek:
Thats very interesting :nod:
And god thats tiny once you have everything off it!
Moving swiftly on, we got the flywheel nut and the front pulley wheel nut taken off by an impact wrench today, the 54mm flywheel nut came straight off, but the ~20mm pulley nut needed some serious heat and the biggest airgun I have ever seen! It has never been rebuilt before and apparently is tightened up A LOT from the factory.
Front of the engine first,t ake the main pulley wheel off:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/Afinalstripdown2.jpg
Undo all bolts holding the oil pump housing and remove it:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/Afinalstripdown3.jpg
Slide the oil pump bits and bobs off the shaft, they dont spin on the shaft due to a keyway but are not actually bolted into place at all.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/Afinalstripdown5.jpg
take the actual oil pump off, this is a cool little 4 pointed twin rotor jobbie:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/Afinalstripdown6.jpg
A few more bolts and you can take the front stationary gear out. This does not move (hence, 'stationary') but sits around the eccentric (drive) shaft and a larger diameter gear on the rotor works its way around it in a spirograph fashion. (see a few pics down)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/Afinalstripdown7.jpg
Ok, round to the back of the engine, and you can take the flywheel off with a large rubber mallet and a few fairground swings at it.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/Afinalstripdown1.jpg
All the bolt heads you can see need to come out, this is when a powered socket drive of some sort is really handy, cos there are loads of them!
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/Afinalstripdown8.jpg
These bolts are what sandwich the whole block together, its very important what order you tighten them up when reassembling to get a good seal on all faces.
Once the bolts are out, you just need to tap the end plate gently and it will pull apart revealing this:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/Afinalstripdown9.jpg
Its so cool!
Above you can see the front staionary gear on the end plate (laid on the floor) and the larger gear on the rotor that runs around it, keeping everything in place.
This next pic is a bit dark but this is the plate that seems in worst condition, but the water seal edges are still intact, so it may have just been a rubber seal failure, meaning we can re-use ALL housings and end plates, which would be brilliant.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/Afinalstripdown10.jpg
Here is the water seal pulled out, it's a bit of a state, should be in one piece!
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/Afinalstripdown15.jpg
Here is the rotor sitting in its housing, if you look close you can see the corner seals and the long thin side seals joining them. the rotor tips are end-on at the apexes of the rotor.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/Afinalstripdown11.jpg
The above picture shows how the rotor is mounted offcentre on the eccentric shaft. (the other rotor is off centre but rotated 180 degrees) The eccentric shaft section that sits in the rotor is perfectly round, as is the inside of the rotor. as the rotor is turned by the combustion cycle, it 'pulls' the eccentric shaft around, and the shaft 'slips' around inside the rotor like a bearing but with no moving parts, although it is swimming in oil when running so wear is never really an issue here. Those are the two only moving parts of a rotary. (3 if you include the other rotor)
If you see an animation of the engine moving, you can see that for one complete rotation of the rotor (one face passing through every part of the combustion cycle) the eccentric shaft actually rotates 3 times. So when the output is say, 6000rpm, the rotor is only actually spinning at 2000rpm, which is one reason why you can comfortably rev these upwards of 10,000rpm!
This may also explain why an N/A rotary engine lacks torque, due the 'gearing ' effect on the output shaft. Although I could go on about how rotarys are generating turning force for more degrees per rotation than pistons, but it's not that interesting!
back to pictures,
The rotor just slides out:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/Afinalstripdown12.jpg
There is some buildup on the face which is normal, this can all be cleaned off. it doesn't affect performance as such as this face never contacts anything else, it just marginally reduces the volume of air each face can accomodate.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/Afinalstripdown13.jpg
Here all all the seals from one rotor:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/Afinalstripdown14.jpg
From the tips of the fingers down it goes side seals, side seal springs, apex seal springs, apex seals, then corner seals and sorner seal springs.
cont on next post...
Take first rotor housing off to reveal this:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/Afinalstripdown16.jpg
Here is the rotor housing, it seems in very good nick, only very slight scoring to the coating in one place so this should definately be re-usable.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/Afinalstripdown17.jpg
Pulling the other housing apart is basically the same, except it was a lot less manky inside! here is the other rotor, it's always useful to remember which is front and which is rear for when you re fit them, as they will be minutely suited to their housings after running for 50,000 miles.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/Afinalstripdown19.jpg
Here is the shiny eccentric shaft, the large lumps in the centre are where the rotors sit:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/Afinalstripdown18.jpg
And here is what you end up with, one way to fill up a bench!
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/Afinalstripdown.jpg
Time for some serious spring cleaning, i might make myself scarce until the owner has done all that, and come back when he is ready to rebuild it!
:notworthy amazing stuff mate :nod: and its the first time ive seen one apart. great stuff thanks :thumbs:
subscribing, great thread.
Tricky-Ricky
29-10-2006, 01:37
Always wanted to see the insides of a rotary, thanks for taking the time and effort to take and post up the pics:thumbs: :D
This thread is great :nod: Keep us updated with lots more pics :thumbs:
:cool:
Can you run the sequential system off some sort of electronic boost controller and ditch the rats nest. That's a terrifying amount of pipes :eek:
:no:
They're a bit mad, this is how they work:
Bypass secondary turbo and close exhaust valves for secondary turbo, spin up primary turbo
Produce boost on primary turbo
Spin up secondary turbo using exhaust gasses from opening the exhaust valve for it whilst inlet system for it is recirculating
Wait for boost produced by the two turbos to be the same, then join the outlet from their compressors together
:wack:
I was confused once the engine was out of the car :wack: :(
Very interesting seeing it being done though :D
Keep taking pictures! :wave:
stumitch
29-10-2006, 01:51
WOW rats nest :eek: and i thought there were a lot of pipes on my S14 :)
Hugh Janus
29-10-2006, 08:21
superb Dan, thats made it look very simple (im sure its not though)
i cannot believe the size of the block its soo small
Hugh
Necromancer
29-10-2006, 09:28
wow how much pipework has that rats nest got :eek:
fair play to you and the owner knowing what to do and keep the pictures coming :thumbs:
Blimey thanks for all the nice words!
Things will probably be a little quiet now while the owner of the car saves up some cash for the rebuild kit and new parts, and i'm sure you dont all want to see a load of pictures of us cleaning things.
So give it a couple of months and I will put up pictures of the rebuild if people still want to see it? :)
Would be great to see the rebuild to :nod:
awesome thread dan, can't believe how much you know about the ol' ****el now! Are you going to port it before the rebuild or is that top secret?!
ash
Hi Ash, amazing what you learn when you are forced to strip a car for parts isn't it!
As far as porting goes, that will be up to the owner I guess, but I can see us getting through a few dremel attachements before the block goes back together wink wink...
Excellent thead. Subscribed.
and i'm sure you dont all want to see a load of pictures of us cleaning things.
Actually we do, and at the same time keep up with the informative text on how things are put together and what does what. :thumbs:
ShawJohn
29-10-2006, 19:53
ooh thats shiny!
So did you set that display piece up?
I wish :D
No that was my home vid of an engine on the Mazda Stand at NEC Motorshow 2004 :thumbs:
gtst lad
29-10-2006, 19:56
Great stuff, very interesting read, i do likes the rotary engines :nod:
christopher
29-10-2006, 21:17
...Wow.
For someone to whom a car is a car is a car (except some are shinier and prettier than others :smash: ) this thread has been incredibly interesting to read! As DS put it in MSN when he passed me the link, "get your learning cap on and have a look at this" :D
Thanks very very very much for posting all of this, I learnt something (including that I should never, Ever, EVAR even consider taking a car engine apart at any point in the future even if I learn more about cars because it's just A Very Bad Idea, and that, should I ever own a rotary engine car (and pigs may fly) I should also get hold of your number so you can do repairs for me ;)
That is a fantastic read. Always been interested in the old ****els. :)
Can't believe the size on the tiny little thing, its so cute. :D
Awesome :cool:
The rats nest looks even worse in the flesh! scary stuff - fascinating reading though :thumbs:
Ego expanding... to.. door-blocking proportions!
Thanks for the great comments, glad you all like the thread.
I read all the project threads on here with interest, and I love to learn what I can about pretty much anything from them, so I thought you might like to find out a bit about the rotary, and you obviously do! :)
I'm no engineer and my knowledge of rotaries is comparatively basic, but if this thread helps explode a few myths and helps people understand what is a fantastic engine, then it's all good. I know there are a few people watching this thread who know the rotary better than I do, so they should feel free to comment as much as possible, especially when I get things wrong! (it'll happen, trust me)
Maybe I will sling a few progress pic up now and then while we are prepping the engine to be rebuilt, but i'll try and keep it mostly pictures, I'm sure most people know how to use engine degreaser!
Cheers
RADS_S13
30-10-2006, 13:37
very cool thread :thumbs:
My local Mazda dealership has a block and single rotor display thing, like in the video up there, but you can turn it by hand a bit slower than in that vid. I might pop in and take a phone video if it helps anyone understand a little.
Or we can look at what i've just found somewhere on my HDD
If only i could get the gif image to fit (it's about 80kb too big) :cry:
aah, long time no update, but a serious injection of cash is on it's way, so we are getting warmed up again to do some proper work!
As it stood previously, the engine is apart and everything needs cleaning or replacing before we attempt to build it back up. All the housings and plates are going to be replaced due to unsatisfactory levels of wear, and also for peace of mind for this, our first rebuild.
We intend to 'port' or enlarge the inlet and exhaust ports on the plates and housings to generate more power, and seeing as neither of us have done it before, we are using Rich's damaged old plates for a quick practice run.
Porting on rotary engines is ludicrously simple, basically you make the inny and outy holes bigger, you get more gas flow, and more power. A stock port looks like this:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/portstd.jpg
(this is on the secondary port, we practised on the primary port so thats why our port below looks so much smaller)
The shape of the inlet port is where the art is, the edges are set in specific places and at specific angles so that things happen at the right point in the rotation of the rotor past the port hole. If you extend the outer edge of the hole towards the outer edge of the plate, you will in general generate more power due to increased air flow, and if you extend the upper edge upwards you will allow the engine to generate power at higher revs (up to a limit obviously). These are the two basic principles of a 'street port'. You will have more power at slightly higher revs, but the characteristics of the engine will stay basically the same.
You can make all sorts of other ports, the most extreme being a 'bridge' port where you leave a thin 'bridge' of metal across the enlarged port, making two port holes instead of one, I couldn't begin to tell you the mechanics of how it works, but it will create amazing power at the sacrifice of low-end driveability and engine lifespan. Looks something like this:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/portbdg.jpg
If you ever see high power rotaries on youtube, listen for a distinctive 'brap-brap-brap' idle, this is a sure sign of a big bridge port.
So anyhoo, onto our attempts. I made some tracings of the stock ports, and jiggled them about a bit on my computer, then made my own porting template on the advice of a very experienced tuner. I thought it looked a bit small but he reckons it was too large and was simlar to the one they had in their 9 second drag car! oops.
Mine looked like this, the red line is the new port we are aiming for, top ones are secondary ports and bottom are primary ports (one set is reversed cos each rotor has the primary and secondary on opposite sides, from front to back it goes secondary, primary, primary, secondary.)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/plate-ports-mild-street1.jpg
Here you can see the primary template stuck on the plate with the water jacket line and bolt holes for location.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC06992.jpg
Then it was Dandan in 'doing work' shocker again:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/Danhavingagoatporting.jpg
Using an air powered die grinder which was brilliant.
Pulled the template off to see how it looked:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC06993.jpg
And tidied it up a bit by eye. The top line should stay dead straight and you can see i have curved it a little, so i will make sure i sort that next time around.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC06995.jpg
Looks good from here though:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/TestStreetPort1.jpg
Next we need to get right into the inside of the port and runner, as it is cast from the factory and is really rough on the inside. You need to basically polish it all up to get nicer air flow through there, we could only do the outer parts as we now need a thin extension to get right up inside. The end of the port runner that joins to the lower inlet manifold can be enlarged slightly too, you can offer up the LIM to see how large to make it. I don't have any pics of this bit though i'm afraid, sorry. I will get some up.
That is it so far, hope it all makes sense.
Oh, we pulled all the dash out to remove the thin rubber coating in preperation for a colour change. rich wants to do it in dark silver, im not so sure, but hey, it's his car!
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DashOut.jpg
GeeSexAah
02-02-2007, 18:06
Cool, thanks for the info m8, nice too see it being started on again and looking forward to watching it to completion now.
Col
Surely to get a better airflow you need to leave the surface with a "bobbly" texture. Similar to what you find on golfballs, for example :)
It's really cool to see though :thumbs:
thehats13
02-02-2007, 19:49
when rebuilding it is handy to use vaseline to hold all the seals in place between the housings as if any enters it just burns off with out leaving any residue due to being made from petroleum hope this might be of some help
great stuff dan, keep us posted!!
Cheers Thehats, I did know about that handy little tip already, but thanks for mentioning it, I have seen a side seal be dropped right into the bottom of a nearly-finished engine, meaning it had to be pulled apart again, I'll do my best not to let that happen!
Hi Ash, long time no speak! :wave:
Hi Dan - whens your engine shop opening?!!
Ps. warn rich that if painting the dash silver, at night and sunny days the reflection on the inside of the windscreen can be a right pain in the arse, someone i met on FDUK did it and then repainted it black a few weeks later!
I think its mostly ok so long as the curved section bit of dash that goes up to the glass is left black!?
ash
great thread :cool:
how much are all the parts, worst case scenario? for example if you wanted to rebuild a rotary yourself
well we are buying brand new everything except for the 2 rotors, and we are hoping to come in under £2500, not bad for basically a brand new engine that is going to push 450 at the wheels (not including the ancillaries in the price obviously). But in general you should be able to rebuild one for under £1500. :)
Thanks for the info :thumbs: (thinking about buying one after seeing this thread :smash: :smitten: )
right, a little touch of progress today, we decided to leave then engine alone until we have the new parts and stuff, so we got on with taking out the air con system instead.
Quick update, last time we visited, the enigine bay looked like this:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/acgone.jpg
And seeing as the AC was already de-gassed for whatever reason, we got straigt on with ripping it out. Here is a picture of it, er, gone.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/acgone4.jpg
We also removed the AC rad and the water rad as a very large v-mount will be going in instead. Here is another picture of it well and truly gone.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/acgone3.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/acgone2.jpg
Loads of room!
Oh and incidentally, here is the state of the dash at the mo. We are trying to pull the entire dash out too to get to the AC unit under the dash and remove the pipes into the engine bay so we can use the holes left behind for routing other stuff but it's a bit of a tight fit.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/acgone1.jpg
Thats it for now, just keeping you all in the know. :)
Surely to get a better airflow you need to leave the surface with a "bobbly" texture. Similar to what you find on golfballs, for example :)
It's really cool to see though :thumbs:
Aye, mirror finish for sealing, dimply for air flow.
Cheers for the updates, keeping an eye on this thread :)
Oh and incidentally, here is the state of the dash at the mo. We are trying to pull the entire dash out too to get to the AC unit under the dash and remove the pipes into the engine bay so we can use the holes left behind for routing other stuff but it's a bit of a tight fit.)
Hiya Dan,
My memory's pretty poor but I'm sure Chris said he could remove the A/C evaporator without removing the dash :confused: (I'm going to try and coerce him to do mine when it's down at reworx soon)
which V-mount are you going for?
Smoothound
24-02-2007, 23:20
Missed this thread first time round. Just read the whole lot, very interesting!
Some great skills being shown there.
Now watching very closely. Can't wait to see/hear that rotary running again :)
Hiya Dan,
My memory's pretty poor but I'm sure Chris said he could remove the A/C evaporator without removing the dash :confused: (I'm going to try and coerce him to do mine when it's down at reworx soon)
which V-mount are you going for?
Yeah he told me that too but I couldn't manage it on my last car, so I thought we could have a go at pulling the dash out to get some better access. Plus we need to get to the centre dash speaker to replace it anyway. It's only half out so if we get any tips on how to remove the evaporator then we will not pull it all the way out.
I think the v-mount will be Reworx's new bit of kit, but Rich is paying so don't quote me on that :)
So this whole smooth/bobbly debate, i'm intrigued. I have been told by reputable tuners to smooth the runners all through for better airflow, obviously any part i enlarge will come out smooth, but should i leave the rest of the runner slightly rough? It will save a lot of grinding time at least.
Cheers for the nice words smoothhound. :)
I think the v-mount will be Reworx's new bit of kit, but Rich is paying so don't quote me on that :)
That's the one I've got in at the moment, he won't be disappointed! :)
So this whole smooth/bobbly debate, i'm intrigued. I have been told by reputable tuners to smooth the runners all through for better airflow, obviously any part i enlarge will come out smooth, but should i leave the rest of the runner slightly rough? It will save a lot of grinding time at least.
I was alway told smooth is fine (removing casting imperfections etc) but the nearer you get to mirror finishes the worse the airflow.
Cheers
Rob
SpencerS14
25-02-2007, 15:12
this is awesome!!! very, very impressive stuff happening here
ah cheers Rob, makes sense to me, not having to make a mirror finish should save us a few hours!
Thanks for the nice comment Spencer. :)
So this whole smooth/bobbly debate, i'm intrigued. I have been told by reputable tuners to smooth the runners all through for better airflow, obviously any part i enlarge will come out smooth, but should i leave the rest of the runner slightly rough? It will save a lot of grinding time at least.
If the surface texture is rough, you get tiny little swirls forming in the air on the rough surface due to turbulence. Think of the swirls like ball-bearings for air. As the air swirls in place, the air moving along the surface at a distance travels in a straight line at high velocity, because the only thing it is touching is the air that's swirling. Any drag in the system acts only on the swirls, and not on the main mass of moving air.
If the surface texture is smooth, no turbulence occurs, the air moves in a laminar flow uniformly away from the surface. The closer the air is to the surface, the slower it moves.
Similarly, if you have something in the airflow that would obstruct it:
If the leading edge has a smoothly rounded surface, the airflow will cleanly break over it with no turbulence.
If the leading edge comes to a sharp point, the airflow will hit it, and cause turbulence to disrupt the airflow at the point and for quite some distance either side.
If the trailing edge has a smoothly rounded surface, the airflow will try to "stick" to the surface all the way around, until it meets air coming in the other direction. That causes turbulence again, and the air doesn't break cleanly away.
If the trailing edge comes to a sharp point, the airflow following it travels along until it comes off the edge, joins up with more air going in the same direction, and virtually no turbulence occurs.
Welsh Dan
14-03-2007, 15:26
Any updates Dan?
Erm, no actual work done, Rich recieved a preliminary shopping list total though, it came to, wait for it, £9300! hehehe, this is going to be one awesome engine.
We are going to knock a few squid off that where possible as the budget is only really supposed to be about £8500, so we will hold off on water injection for now, maybe choose a cheaper clutch, and try and source a few items second hand, like reconditioned injectors, fuel pump, also get an FPR that doesn't have a snazzy jap name on it to save a few quid.
The rebuild kit and plates and housings have been confirmed and ordered, basically it cost £2300 for almost a completly brand new engine, it's going to be seriously shiny. Seems a shame that the first thing we will do to the brand new plates is take a dremel to the inlet ports!
I will post up pics of all the new goodies as soon as we get them. :)
Welsh Dan
14-03-2007, 20:10
Theres a guy selling a water injection kit on fleabay for £86 :)
Also, on mine, Ross (Dragon)recommended the FSE boost valve (fancy name for FPR) and that was fitted with no problems.
I thought the FSE thing was just a little tiny screw valve or something?
I shall investigate, or get Rich to anyway, it's his car after all, I have better things to do with my time.*
*This may be a lie.
Welsh Dan
14-03-2007, 20:17
The FSE Power Boost Valve is just a normal adjustable fuel pressure regulator. That doesn't sound as interesting to the barries with their Saxos though, so it gets called the "Power Boost Valve". Its honestly just a FPR :lol:
Even comes with the right fittings, so you don't have to butcher the fuel rail.
Nice one, ill pass that on, ta.
Rotaxmax125
14-03-2007, 20:49
If the surface texture is rough, you get tiny little swirls forming in the air on the rough surface due to turbulence. Think of the swirls like ball-bearings for air. As the air swirls in place, the air moving along the surface at a distance travels in a straight line at high velocity, because the only thing it is touching is the air that's swirling. Any drag in the system acts only on the swirls, and not on the main mass of moving air.
If the surface texture is smooth, no turbulence occurs, the air moves in a laminar flow uniformly away from the surface. The closer the air is to the surface, the slower it moves.
Similarly, if you have something in the airflow that would obstruct it:
If the leading edge has a smoothly rounded surface, the airflow will cleanly break over it with no turbulence.
If the leading edge comes to a sharp point, the airflow will hit it, and cause turbulence to disrupt the airflow at the point and for quite some distance either side.
If the trailing edge has a smoothly rounded surface, the airflow will try to "stick" to the surface all the way around, until it meets air coming in the other direction. That causes turbulence again, and the air doesn't break cleanly away.
If the trailing edge comes to a sharp point, the airflow following it travels along until it comes off the edge, joins up with more air going in the same direction, and virtually no turbulence occurs.
Just to make it more confusing it all depends on the renolds number so some times rough works sometimes smooth works, so depending on the air pressure, flow and temperature and how long it spends at each of these states. this is why I hate aerodynamics
therookie
15-03-2007, 13:55
AeroDynamics??! You mean thermo-Fluid-Dynamics!? lol Near Enough Same thing though! It is Best to have Turbulance up to ports etc, A smooth surface like a wing on a aeroplane, car, or anything that moves through the air, the Air touching the surface is actually not moving, yes that sounds crazy thats what i thought when i was told, but the air touching it isnt moving so creates a surface layer causing it to be a fast surface for the air above, so at the area going into a combustion chamber you want it like that, having dimples or rough surface makes swirls, turbulance, this helps mixing of air to fuel, since not many petrol engines are direct injection like diesels are.
Its not a major difference, it can be noticed though. the best thing todo, with pistons anyhow, is to create a nice shape that causes the fuel when sprayed in directly, to swirl in the port upwards into the compressed air just before ignition, Gives a nice stratisfied (think thats the word) Mix, BUT, that only good if you looking for best A/F Ratio. The FSI on golfs etc is this, Nice economy, its actually running very slightly Lean. So less fuel same air and good power. but a tad slugish when you want to go...
Sory for the essay.:wack:
BUT THIS IS AN AWESOME THREAD!!! I love Rotarys, but hate explaining, This just made it soooooooo much easyer!!!:clap: :nod: :thumbs:
a little about mixture flow here:
http://www.boosttown.com/engine/mixture_flow.php
edit: not sure if its relevant for rotatory engines
Thanks very much for all the airflow info, just goes to show there are some shmart, shmart people on here, me not being one of them, which is why i'm gonna go ahead and grind the ports to shape but not polish. hehehe.
Teeny tiny update while we are waiting for shiny things to turn up,
This was mostly boost controller gubbins, it was a hideously complicated knightsports number with umpteen little boxes and wires going everywhere. My theory on this (as I am not the holder of the purse strings) is as follows: Dont understand it? buy something to replace it that is newer, better, shinier, and most importantly, has instructions.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/17032007136.jpg
You can also see the Stock ECU in there and a bunch of redundant stereo wiring.
Then Rich finally let me remove his super gay rear spoiler, its the smallest horriblest spoiler I have ever had the misfortune to see, and I was really glad to be able to bin it. Especially as it means Rich is buying my mahoosive carbon one off me to replace it, hurrah.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/17032007137.jpg
Turns out though, when we took it off, it has a FEED stamp on the underside, so it is actually probably incredibly rare and worth a bit of cash. Doesn't stop it being ugly and stupid.
That is all for now, shiny thing delivery is imminent, soon there will be much to write about. :)
Welsh Dan
19-03-2007, 19:55
Thats not a stock ECU. Its a knightsports chipped one, in the same way that Jez@ HD chips the SX ECU
yes, same ecu as my old one. usually theres a number like 0.9 or 0.85 (or1.2!!) scrawled on it somewhere which is the boost limit. Looks like someone spent some money on that car a few years ago!
Gives a nice stratisfied (think thats the word) Mix, BUT, that only good if you looking for best A/F Ratio. The FSI on golfs etc is this, Nice economy, its actually running very slightly Lean. So less fuel same air and good power. but a tad slugish when you want to go...
I dont think thats the word you mean?
Stratisfied = Air and fuel un mixed. EG: The FSI engine where a fuel is injected just above the piston, around the spark plug. Like a small pool of atomised fuel surrounded by air. Rest of the air mixture is lean
Homogenous = Roughly* equal distribution of fuel in the air
:)
* I bet a pedant will pick me up on this :D
Ok, ok, it's not strictly a stock ECU, as it's been monkeyed with, but it's no good to us so to be honest I didn't even glance at the stickers on it. It's too damn stock for me!
No news on the 'Shiny bits' yet :(
Martin T
21-03-2007, 20:53
I dont think thats the word you mean?
Stratisfied = Air and fuel un mixed. EG: The FSI engine where a fuel is injected just above the piston, around the spark plug. Like a small pool of atomised fuel surrounded by air. Rest of the air mixture is lean
Homogenous = Roughly* equal distribution of fuel in the air
:)
* I bet a pedant will pick me up on this :D
Of course. :D
its stratified
Sorry :rolleyes:
hurrah, a shiny bit has arrived!
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00327.jpg
Some not-so-shiny bits have come too, like the seals and springs and such, but we are still waiting for the plates to come, so we can't actually get on with anything yet, I just got all excited as we actually have some new parts!
(That's a rotor housing in the pic by the way) :)
nice job m8 reminds me of my old 13b
I didnt know rotary engine porting was so similar to the way 2-stoke motors are ported!
Bridge porting is also commonly used in 2-stroke port tuning, but we call it the eyebrow port for obvious reasons :)
StormBleeder
29-03-2007, 12:17
Thought I would introduce myself and say hello to everyone.
I'm Rich and my car is the subject of this very interesting and informative thread. :thumbs: :D
It's been really great to read all the support you have given this project and also the advice about aerodynamics, it's all appreciated especially the advice about the aerodynamics which is going to be put to good use. ;)
Also just a quick update on a few bits...
I've been looking at other turbo options as I was looking at putting in a T78 which was a good compromise between power and lag.
However after talking to many people about this, I'm now tempted to go for a Greddy TD06 turbo kit as it could be slightly cheaper and contain a lot more bits for free.
The TD06 won't produce as much power as it's only a small turbo so I'll probably only get about 375bhp, but I'll be on full boost at 3,500rpm. Still deciding what to do, so what do people think?
...and lastly some of the dash has had it's first undercoating.
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/Dash1.jpg?t=1175164799
Once again thanks for everyone's support and advice it's much appreciated.
Thought I would introduce myself and say hello to everyone.
The TD06 won't produce as much power as it's only a small turbo so I'll probably only get about 375bhp, but I'll be on full boost at 3,500rpm. Still deciding what to do, so what do people think?
Once again thanks for everyone's support and advice it's much appreciated.
This is one of the threads that made me less scared about the rotary engine, I've since gone and bought an FD now :thumbs: (mine's staying standard though, well standardish :smash: )
As far as the turbo goes, when would the T78 be on full boost? I'd personally go for the smaller turbo as it'll be more driveable IMO, but then I've never felt the need for lots of power on the roads.
What sort of paint are you using for your centre console btw? (I fancy re-painting mine)
You don't know anywhere to get the pillowball bushes cheaply do you, I really object to the prices I've found for them :wack:
StormBleeder
29-03-2007, 13:43
Not entirely sure when the T78 hits full boost, I think it starts generating useful boost at about 3,000 rpm, so my guess would be about 4,500 ish.
If you want to repaint your dash then think long and hard about it first, as you need to remove all the rubber coating off of the dash first with sand paper. The removal of the rubber coating is a nasty nasty nasty job, however if you really want it another colour then go for it because the finished article will be worth it. :D
I'm painting mine with Halfords plastic primer then top coating with a dark gun metal colour, haven't picked it out yet but it will just be Halfords standard car paint. Topped off with matt lacquer, which I'm yet to find as Halfords don't seem to sell any, any one know where to get some?
Sorry I haven't looked into changing the pillowball bushes yet, so have no idea how much a set is at the moment.
I wasn't aware there was a rubber coating :o I wanted to do it as it's starting to look a little tatty with some scratches etc and thought sanding it back and either repainting black or a different colour. I'm sure halfords did a matt laquer, best place to go to for paint is your local motor factor
The cheapest I've found is £52 + postage per pillowball which makes the set £310 + postage :wack: I only need one (or possibly 2) but I still think it's excessive for a bit of metal ball surrounded with nylon, I was more thinking £30 each :smash: .
Not entirely sure when the T78 hits full boost, I think it starts generating useful boost at about 3,000 rpm, so my guess would be about 4,500 ish.
I think you'd be lucky to generate any significant boost on a T78 at 3K unless you had a half bridge or similar :wack:
The greddy T78 kits are cheap but it's a shitty, laggy, heavy old truck turbo which is expensive to rebuild if anything goes awry.
It depends how much power you want but there are better kits available at every power level
StormBleeder
29-03-2007, 15:59
Ah well hello there Mr fro I keep seeing you on fd:uk.
Well since I'm going for a quite large extended port the T78 might not be the best turbo out there for my set up, but I am quite taken with the TD06 kit even if it is quite a small turbo. :D
Hello, good to see you post up on here :thumbs:
Ah well hello there Mr fro I keep seeing you on fd:uk.
Well since I'm going for a quite large extended port the T78 might not be the best turbo out there for my set up, but I am quite taken with the TD06 kit even if it is quite a small turbo. :D
hello Rich! you've already got nearly as many posts on here as on FD:UK ;)
If you can find a cheap secondhand TD06 it would be worth it. If you're buying new definitely get a GT35R kit from a-spec in the states instead!
Sean at a-spec is very helpful and their kits are excellent quality with proper wastegates (tial) and he's fully set up for making RHD kits too.
Thanks to the weak dollar it will be cheap too :)
sadly, his website is a bit pants but all the contact information's there
http://www.a-spectuning.com/
Cheers
Rob
chrisdavidson152
29-03-2007, 22:44
Again, good thread, cheers guys....
StormBleeder
30-03-2007, 11:25
Thanks for that fro, I've sent them an email this morning so will see what comes out of it.
After speaking to a few other people seem to think that the GT35R is a very good mid range turbo and excellent for track use. :D
To give people an idea of where this is going...
Ports: Large extended,
Turbo: probably a GT35R ,
Cooling: RE:Worx VMount,
ECU: HKS F-Con Pro V,
Clutch: Exeddy Twin Plate Clutch and lightened flywheel,
Fuel rail: 850cc primaries, FPR and HKS fuel pump,
Boost Controller: greddy profec B spec II,
Extras: Water Injection,
Exhaust: large free flowing exhaust.
I've been warned that the 850cc primeries might not be man enough, but I think I leave the upgrading of the secondary injectors to 1680cc till later. :D
I think with this post I've just overtaken my posts on FD:UK. lol
Crazy_sx
30-03-2007, 18:54
wow very nice, keep it up
Oi you bunch of barstewards, this is my thread! bugger off! :wack:
Welsh Dan
30-03-2007, 19:49
Are you sure you want to be using the F-Con, as I was under the impression that there were only a limited number of rotary tuners that used it. Would you not be better off with a PowerFC, as its more widely supported?
PowerFC's can be a bit funny over 400hp (which may well happen to this car in the future) in regards to injectors and fuel delivery so I have been told. THe F-con is much much more versatile, and luckily Re:Worx just down the road from us have started to use them regularly, and they have their own rolling road. :)
Although saying that, as Rich is not going over 400hp yet, he may want to go back to speccing a power FC for now to save a few pennies.
Although saying that, as Rich is not going over 400hp yet, he may want to go back to speccing a power FC for now to save a few pennies.
If you do decide to go with the PFC, let me know. As soon as Geff sorts my motec out I'll be selling mine. I also have a feed sonic catback in the garage that's taking up valuable space ;)
Fantastic thread and a top job :thumbs: Never seen one of these in bits before, thanks for taking the time and effort to post it all up :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy
Rob can i give Rich your number in that case? he may be veerrrry interested...
A comment from the actual, real Petrol, wow I must be doing something right! Cheers!
Rob can i give Rich your number in that case? he may be veerrrry interested...
A comment from the actual, real Petrol, wow I must be doing something right! Cheers!
Yep, you certainly can Dan. I've got some other bits he might want too :thumbs:
StormBleeder
02-04-2007, 16:22
fro quick question for you....
When you imported your turbo kit how much import duty did you get charged if at all?
You might be wondering why I didn't phone you...well I thought the question was a good question that should be asked for everyone to see in case others think of doing the same thing, but mainly because Dan hasn't given me your number yet. :D
Welsh Dan
02-04-2007, 16:29
That wasn't aimed at me, but i'll answer anyway.
When I imported the single turbo bits over for my RX7, I had to pay £150 duty on a £900 turbo, and about £30 duty on the manifold. I think I paid the same amount on the wastegate too. I had the oil lines made up in this country.
I used www.cheapturbos.com
They were recommended on a few of the US Rotary boards and they're decent turbos, so none of the SS autochrome rubbish. I had the Blowzilla on mine, which should be good for 500bhp :nod:
fro quick question for you....
When you imported your turbo kit how much import duty did you get charged if at all?
I can't rememeber, it was a while back :(
I think it was 6% or 7% on top of the declared value, then 17.5% vat on top of that. I'll pm you in a bit with my number
Cheers
Rob
Erm, excuse me nice mod type people, as you have split the non-200 forum up into 2 sections now, can you move this to the motoring related section pretty please?
P.S, off to make a bit of progress tonight, pics to follow hopefully. :)
I was just thinking that! :thumbs:
Ta Muchly Stu.
We did make a little progress tonight, but it really was very, very little, so no pics I'm afraid.
I covered the bootlid in temporary red vinyl to cover the mess left when we removed the spoiler, just until Rich can afford to get the car sprayed. I wanted to wrap the whole car in matt black but Rich wasn't having any of it. :(
We also re-installed the dash bits that got painted, they look really nice, i will get a daylight pic of them, they are a really dark metallic grey and suit very well. We spent over an hour trying to get the main pod that holds all the dials to go back in, Rich was still struggling when I left, so I'm not sure if it actually got fitted in the end. This was the reason we didn't really get anything else done, bloody fiddly jobs. grr.
Thats it for now, STILL waiting for the engine plates so we can start the rebuild.
StormBleeder
24-04-2007, 12:55
I did get it fitted properly in the end, in fact I managed to get it to go in as your car was pulling out of the drive Dan. :D
Then spent another half hour just doing all the bolts up and sorting out some lose cable under the dash.
Will try and get a pic in the daylight.
**UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE**
Yes, stop press and all that malarky, 'cos we've actually done a bit more work. Not much mind, but it all counts. The whole build is going slow, but then the car is at Rich's parents so neither of us can just pop out the back door to spend the odd hour on it whenever we like. To be honest it doesnt matter because we are waiting on loads of bits to arrive from around the world so it couldn't be finished yet anyway.
But anyhoo, while I was on holiday in New York, the plates finally turned up:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/19052007282.jpg
So we have three of those, two of these housings:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00327.jpg
And a shed load of fiddly little springy bits of metal and rubber:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/19052007283.jpg
Which, along with Rich's existing rotors, make an entire brand new engine, Yay!
Now the plates are in we decided to finish off the practice ports on the old housings, then we will get them checked over by a pro and then start grinding away at the brand new, never-out-of-the-wrapper plates. ooh err.
Here is our secondary port, I photochopped the original size in next to it for comparison, it is only about 3mm wider and 2mm higher but will apparently do the job quite nicely.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/secondaryport.jpg
So when the ports have been inspected, we will do the final ports on the new plates, and then we can put the main block back together! should only take a day and I should be able to get some nice pics of it.
Oh, we also cleaned a few more bits and bobs and installed some new speakers. That'll do for now. :)
Your both much braver men than i. just read the whole thing,I saw the rats nest and had to lie down.
muchos respect:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy and good luck with it all:thumbs:
Don't worry about the rats nats, thats going in the bin, hurrah! Oh the joys of a big single turbo.
Bwah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/image004.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/image001.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/image003.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/image002.jpg
Ladies and gentlemen, a (fecking gargantuan) v-mount. :)
mmmm v-mount :smitten: where did you get the kit from?
was made by a friend of a friend of a friend who knows the guy who cuts the hair of the bloke who is married to the owner of a fab shop, or so the story goes.
mattkeeber
11-06-2007, 14:11
that looks like a bloody nice v-mount kit!!!
does he have any plans to go into production? nice port too.
no it was strictly a one off im afraid, big favour and all that.
Thanks for the comment on the port too, I done that I did. :)
Got some more shiny bits today,
OS Giken twin plate clutch and lightened flywheel, for the price this was, it had bloody better hold the power... (what am I worried about, I didnt pay for it, hehehe)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/16062007311.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/16062007310.jpg
And about a grand's worth of new brain, in the form of an HKS F-Con Pro-V, with a base map already installed so we can turn the car over and get it to the rolling road once it's back together:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/16062007312.jpg
Plus the scary looking loom that goes with it:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/16062007313.jpg
I love shiny bits. :)
I also had acrack at an exhuast port, which went pretty well, the housings are absolutely solid and take ages to grind away, but I eventually ended up with this:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/16062007315.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/16062007316.jpg
The ported one is on the left, as if you needed to know. :) We now have a practice primary, secondary and exhaust port, so we will take them down to RE:Worx to see if they are any good, and then do the actual ports on the brand new plates, we might finally be able to put the engine together soon!
Rich finally fitted the front door speakers (well done, only took you two months), so now that incredibly important job is out of the way maybe he might actually get on with helping me put the engine together, or then again he'll probably decide that the rear window rubbers need replacing immediately, or something equally pointless will take up his attention. :wack:
looks like its going great guns dan - hows the s13? are you going to japshow or rotorstock?
ash
Hugh Janus
16-06-2007, 21:24
well played dan:nod:
StormBleeder
20-06-2007, 11:43
Rich finally fitted the front door speakers (well done, only took you two months), so now that incredibly important job is out of the way maybe he might actually get on with helping me put the engine together, or then again he'll probably decide that the rear window rubbers need replacing immediately, or something equally pointless will take up his attention.
I take offence to that young Daniel! :p
It's true I have finally got the speakers and the head unit all in and working. It's taken me about 3 weeks not 2 months, although that's mainly because I haven't had any time recently. :( Next on the list is getting the door cards finished and then the interior is done and I can leave it alone. :D
As for the engine build, I'm leaving that till about the same time the turbo turns up from the states as I have lots more to do before the engine goes back in. :D
Although if he's so eager to help me build the engine then he could always help me out cleaning the parts, hint, hint. :p
Just to give you an idea of the other bits I have to get out of the way first...
Get new stationary gear bearings pressed in,
Machine the fuel rail down a little to take the larger injectors,
Fit clutch,
Fit ECU,
Clean engine parts that are being reused,
Clean engine bay (Not really clean, just want to get rid of the oil, coolant and grime that's collected where the waterseal went.),
Relocate fuse box (as vmount is now in the way.),
Extend and modify wiring for rad fans (The new fans are one speed and are also further away thanks to the vmount).
There's more but I can't remember any of it at the moment. :rolleyes:
I'm terrible at taking pics of things while I'm doing them, but I'll try and remember to take some, while fitting some of the other bits. :D
Ooh, didnt see the coments form Ash and Hugh, not sure how I missed them.
The s13 is good thanks Ash, got some s14 front brakes to go on it last night, and it's mostly covered in matt black vinyl now, there's a thread on here somewhere... ah: http://www.sxoc.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?t=286359&highlight=matt+black
Cheers mark (hugh), how's your punto of doom?
Rich, erm well basically, you can suck my balls. :)
Oh and whats the scooby si thing about? was he ever on this forum?
StormBleeder
20-06-2007, 13:09
You know I only suck your balls at weekends. :eek:
The ScoobySi thing is me getting confused about which forum I was on. :smash:
I knew there was something strange about you spending so much time together. . . :wack: Does Rachel know?
Just read through this for the first time. I must admit - I've been wary of rotaries ever since I heard about them chipping rotors but you guys have almost convinced me... Almost but not quite - the PS13 will be first...
Great read - really good to see how these infamous engines work. Also really good to see normal people having a go at doing this sort of work and not running to a specialist! I would admit though, that rats nest would have had me throwing my arms up, swearing and breaking something. Looking forward to more progress reports! :thumbs:
StormBleeder
20-06-2007, 20:42
I've just reread my post from this morning and it sounds very b*tchy! So I would like to apologise to DanDan for that it wasn't meant quite like that. :wack:
Anyway have edited my post to reflect this. :smash:
Rich
cliffb75
20-06-2007, 21:09
This thread is cool :nod:
Will follow it with interest :thumbs:
Cheers Cliff, can't really compare to what you are doing, which is amazing by the way, but thanks for the positive comment. :)
Right, more shiny bits have arrived, hurrah!
But before the gratuitous shiny photos, you must first read this lengthy boring technical bit, 'cos it's important. So there.
Rich took the finished practice ports down to RE:Worx on Saturday to get them checked over, and to my surprise, rather than having people laughing and pointing at our hilariously misshapen porting attempts, Rich was told they were actually pretty good.
Ok, so the secondary port was a little too close to the outer water jacket (like, side-seal-falling-through-the-hole type close!) but we know better for the final ones, so it is on to the proper, brand new plates!
Rich did the first exhaust port this evening on the new plate, and it looks pretty damn good. He has pictures which he will upload i'm sure. As we only have one dremel-type tool, I busied myself shaping the end plates for the new big ghey wing which is going on the back of the car, an equally important job i'm sure you will agree.
Ok, now here are the pictures of shiny things:
Greddy 'Elbow', its the join between the intercooler pipe and the Upper Inlet Manifold and is much better than stock, i'm assuming for more reasons than purely the fact that it's shinier, but I couldn't tell you what they are.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/03072007322.jpg
Trust Underdrive Pulley kit in ganky blue (sorry rich but it is a bit mank)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/03072007326.jpg
Sard 850 injectors to replace stock 550 primaries:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/03072007323.jpg
Sard FPR (the posh race one, according to Rich)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/03072007324.jpg
Sard FPR setting kit
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/03072007325.jpg
Thats it for now, waiting on the fuel pump, um, a few other little bits and bobs, oh and the turbo kit *rubs hands with excitement* :wack:
wooo...looking good! planning to go to rotorstock?
ash
StormBleeder
03-07-2007, 23:39
Thanks Ash it's much appreciated. :)
Yeah should be at Rotorstock, whether the car will be or not I'm still not sure, but I'm really hoping it will be.
And as Dan has already mentioned I have indeed ported one of the live housings. :smash: :eek:
I'll admit I was bricking it a little when I first went at the port with the dremel, but it's come out ok......I think.
Excuse the bad photo taking and the rubbish editing...I don't do it very often. :wack:
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/PortComp1.jpg?t=1183501936
that looks great! i wish i had a spare rx7 engine to tinker with, cant do too much to mine as its my daily driver! Cant really whip the engine out over the weekend and hope to get it all back in by monday am!
looking forward to rotorstock, hopefully i'll make both days!
ash
StormBleeder
06-09-2007, 15:00
Well it's been a while since this post was updated as I've been waiting for the turbo turn up, which has taken several months.
However the wait was finally over this afternoon! :D
Some pics...
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/TurboKit1.jpg?t=1189086165
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/TurboKit3.jpg?t=1189086184
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/TeilWastegate.jpg?t=1189086185
So it looks like an end might be in sight for this project.....finally. :thumbs:
Nice flanges on that manifold Rich :)
Screamer (aka fart) pipe though?
StormBleeder
06-09-2007, 17:54
Yep yep it's got a screamer pipe, will probably have to do something about that before I track it though. :D
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Oh balls I'm going out tonight, and you are coming out on Saturday night (in case you didnt know) Rich, we will have to do Sat and Sun daytimes and get this little bugger on the road!
YEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAA!
I'm quite pleased.
Well I've just read the whole thing, not sure how I missed it, but it's been very interesting, thanks for taking the time to do it :thumbs:
Great read. I want an FD now!
Hello everyone, been a while since anything happened on this project but we are really getting a move on now! Blame mostly rests with rich being lazy and slow (hi mate), we should really have had this built and running 6 months ago, but never mind.
The engine is now built! This is how it's done:
Get your brand new, freshly ported front plate, stick the stationary gear on temporarily and lay it face down:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/09022008446.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/09022008447.jpg
more to come:
Oh, and you might as well permanently bolt the stationary gear into the rear plate while you are at it:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/09022008450.jpg
Get some vaseline (for its sticky properties) and rub into the inner and outer water seals:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/09022008448.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/09022008449.jpg
Lay the first spanky new housing on the plate:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/09022008452.jpg
And insert the dowels to align everything:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/09022008453.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/09022008454.jpg
Oil it up good and proper with 2 stoke oil just so that the first time it turns over it doesn't scrape metal on metal. 2 stroke burns away quicker than engine oil apparently, so the first-time start-up doesn't produce too much of a smoke screen:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/09022008455.jpg
Grab a rotor (not new, these things really last):
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/09022008456.jpg
And stick it in the housing. The best idea is to line one apex up with the top or bottom of the housing, so that you can easily make sure you put the second rotor in exactly 180 degrees to it. (if it is all done right it should only fit in one way round, but better safe than sorry)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/09022008457.jpg
Get the apex seal and the two springs that go with it (these are mazda standard ones, you can get thicker tips, ones with only one spring, multi piece tips, even ceramic ones if that's your cup of tea)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/09022008459.jpg
And pop it in the slot. This is a little fiddly.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/09022008460.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/09022008461.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/09022008462.jpg
StormBleeder
18-02-2008, 13:03
Well it's been over a year since the engine came out and summer is fast approaching so I've been getting busy in the shed. ;)
Since the last update I've finally finished porting the plates, both primary and secondary.
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/PrimaryPort3.jpg?t=1203338535
Also had to take out the inlets as well as the ports on the plates.....this was possibly the worst job ever. :censored: :down:
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/Primaryports.jpg?t=1203338582
After I finally finished the porting, which I put off doing for several months. :whip: I started to get down to the fun stuff, which in this case involved a tub of vaseline. :thumbs:
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/Veryhelpfulstuff.jpg?t=1203338982
Also there may have been some building of the rotors.
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/RotorBuild.jpg
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/RotorBuild2.jpg
In the second pic you can see the side seals and springs. I had to use an oil stone to file down each side seal (12 in total) to fit in the gap with a tolerance of 0.05mm.
I might add that the block is now built and the turbo is attached, only a few more ancillaries to attach and it can go back in the car. :thumbs:
However all the pics of the build and beyond are on Dan's camera and he can't upload them till I've fixed his PC, which he broke in style. :notworthy
StormBleeder
18-02-2008, 13:03
Dan where did you come from....now my post looks out of place. :D
aha, i managed to comandeer a work pc to knock this up!
Oil up the eccentric shaft:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/09022008464.jpg
and pop it in:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/09022008465.jpg
Slot the centre plate on, this is a bit fiddly too, you have to lift the eccentric shaft and sort of wobble the plate down into place.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/09022008466.jpg
You can see here the nice tight seal between the front plate and housing and the slight gap between the housing and centre plate. This is because all the side seals in the rotor are pushing against the plate, meaning when we tighten up the whole block, we should get a nice solid seal all round the rotor. This generates your compression.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/09022008467.jpg
Another plate and another rotor, same again:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/09022008468.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/09022008469.jpg
At this point try not to move the rotor and pop all the apex springs out, because they have a tendency to fall down the holes in the housing and go all the way to the bottom of the engine, which means you have to take the whole thing apart to get then out. Yes, this did happen to us, and no you can't use a magnet to get them out, they are not magnetic, typical.
Ok, now you can whack the rear plate on:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/09022008470.jpg
You then stick a load of massive long bolts trough the whole block and tighten them in turn to get everything nice and tight. I forgot the get a pic of that. oops.
Put the counter weight on the back of the engine and tighten the main nut to 300ft/lb. We borrowed a torque wrench from a boat builder, he said if this one didn't do the job, he had a bigger one...
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/13022008471.jpg
At the front of the engine, stick all the bearings and gears on for the oil pump etc, and tighten the pulley wheel nut to 80ft lb.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/13022008472.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/13022008473.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/13022008474.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/13022008475.jpg
You should get an end float (bit of free play) between 0.04 and 0.07 mm. check it out :)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/13022008477.jpg
At this point we took it to a pro builder so he could check it over and make sure we hadnt forgotten anything, here it is on it's little skateboard:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/16022008480.jpg
It was all good, he turned it by hand and the compression sounds really solid (nice shlurping noise on each face of each rotor) and we hadn't forgotten anything important, so we cracked on a bit.
Lower inlet manifold and secondary injector rail on:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/16022008481.jpg
and then we just checked this little number would fit on: hehehehehe...
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/17022008.jpg
Thats it so far, until next weekend. :)
StormBleeder
18-02-2008, 13:32
Just to advance Dans post slightly...
I had to take the back off the turbo to get the bugger to fit. :smash:
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/FittingTurbo1.jpg
Turbo in high res, and from the side. :D
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/FittingTurbo3.jpg
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/FittingTurbo4.jpg
Oh and I took the water pump apart to have a look at the thermostat, have ordered another one after seeing this. :thumbs:
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/WaterPump.jpg
gtst lad
18-02-2008, 18:58
Great work :nod:, actually makes me want to buy an old rotary to have ago myself.
awesome looking thing well done chaps. Are you wishing you had three rotors now?! Had my apexi mapped last week, feels awesome - and thats on twins & tweaks. I can't wait to see this running when all sorted - are you going to run microtech or apexi? roll on rotorstock!
StormBleeder
19-02-2008, 10:13
Thanks for the comments everyone. :)
Hey Ashc, I'm running an HKS F-Con for the ECU. It will definitely be at Rotorstock this year....even if it is on the back of a trailer. :D
looking good mate, nice work :nod:
:notworthy
Awesome stuff, seriously thinking about buying a wrecked 13b to rebuild with ports :cool:
Inspiring stuff, and thanks loads for the pictures as well :nod:
Ol'_200sx_thing
19-02-2008, 12:28
That is the shit :nod:
Hats off to you for undetaking this build, ive heard its a real PITA to rebuild rotaries, you have made it look fairly easy :wack:
That is the shit :nod:
Hats off to you for undetaking this build, ive heard its a real PITA to rebuild rotaries, you have made it look fairly easy :wack:
Supposed to be a hell of a lot easier to rebuild than a conventional boinger :nod:
No way, rotaries are easy to rebuild, we would make it look even easier if we weren't being so careful not to screw up our first build with brand new components!
Midlands Si, that picture in your sig is cracking, a bit harsh but very funny! :)
voodoo_melon
19-02-2008, 12:42
Very interesting :nod: For some reason I always thought the rotors would be smaller than that :wack:
Oil up the eccentric shaft:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/09022008464.jpg
How did you squash your finger? :D
Loving that, just loving it. Havent looked at this thread for a while, its coming on great! Loving the size of the tubby compaired to the size of the engine too!:smash::D
Top work chaps!
Midlands Si, that picture in your sig is cracking, a bit harsh but very funny! :)
Shamelessly stolen from RX7club.
I'm abotu to own one, so i figure i need to admit the truth :wack:
Seriously, this thread has inspired me. I've never even touched an engine beyond a rocker cover gasket before though :wack:
My car has about 64k Km on it, but is a 94, so i figure the water seals may be inevitable :( low to mid 7's on compression all round though :)
I'm thinking of a pre-emptive tear down before the seals go and the engine falls apart inside :wack:
I love how 'bijou' the 13b is :D
Ol'_200sx_thing
19-02-2008, 12:45
Guess i have been hearing my info from a keyboard jockey :smash:
Id love to do something like this, a complete home build/modify :nod:
Not of a rotary, just any engine really :whip:
voodoo_melon
19-02-2008, 12:46
low to mid 7's on compression all round though :)
Is that good? :confused:
Is that good? :confused:
It's average to good :D
voodoo_melon
19-02-2008, 12:49
It's average to good :D
That's good to hear, because it sounds pretty bad when you normally hear about CAs and SRs :D :wack:
That's good to hear, because it sounds pretty bad when you normally hear about CAs and SRs :D :wack:
Yeah, it's a bit of a different kettle of fish :D
StormBleeder
19-02-2008, 13:04
How did you squash your finger?
Not so much as a squash as a lets oil up that sharp piece of metal.....oh why am I bleeding. :wack:
Want to sell me your MS01's to fund this project? ;) :D
noooooooo way!
The ms01's are most definitley staying, keep yer mitts off! it's all part of the slightly subtle stock sleeper look.
Well, at least until the widearch bodykit and respray, at which point I think 'subtle' will go firmly out the window. :)
Wish I hadn't looked at this thread, you have made it very easy !
Great write up :thumbs:
noooooooo way!
The ms01's are most definitley staying, keep yer mitts off! it's all part of the slightly subtle stock sleeper look.
Well, at least until the widearch bodykit and respray, at which point I think 'subtle' will go firmly out the window. :)
Ahhh, so you do need to sell them... ;) :D
Some of the best wheels ever for an FD :nod:
mattkeeber
21-02-2008, 08:36
Great progress on this guys. I'm contemplating turning my 10ftx10ft shed into a mini workshop now.
I'd so love to get my hands dirty on a spare 13b.
Quick tiny update, things have been moving pretty slowly, no real reason, we are just a bit slow. I like to think of it as steady and safe.
Rich has been doing the re-fitting of the ancillaries on the block before it goes back in the engine bay, and has also been attempting the un-enviable task of setting up the electrics and vac hoses for the single conversion. Considering he got all his information from the net he seem to have done pretty well if i'm honest, and it looks like he knows what he is doing so I have left him to it mostly.
What it does mean is that the engine now looks pretty substantial:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00118.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00119.jpg
And here is a close up of a couple of the blanking plates we made for blocking off redundant areas:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00120.jpg
It was a choice of paying £40 for a set of ready made ones or making our own, I think our homemade ones look just the job.
We have got a crane on the way for the weekend, so with a bit of cooperation from the weather, we should be putting this bad boy back in the engine bay in the next couple of days! I'll keep you posted.
Ah, but the £40 Supernow ones are purple! :D and JDM I just put it on the CC... :wack:
Looking good dude, makes a lot more sense now i'm a bit more familiar with the layout :cool:
mattkeeber
10-04-2008, 13:48
Si, got a link to those? I'm feeling some JDM-ish items.
Good progress Dan - Thanks to this thread my car and engine now look like this.. damn you! lol
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c8/mkeeber/rebuild/DSCF2425.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c8/mkeeber/rebuild/DSCF2439.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c8/mkeeber/rebuild/DSCF2424.jpg
(ignore the broken PS pulley :o)
Mr K - PM comin' atcha :thumbs:
Wow! Damn you have just schooled me on what i have been wanting to know for a long time :thumbs: Good work, and i hope it runs sweet when that "bad boy" is in.....all luck your way>>>>>>>>>>>>> :thumbs: Oh! the photo above looks like the hot side of the turbo is touching the inlet mani...????
Matt: I'm taking absolutely no responsibility for that little lot! Good luck with the build though. :)
Dread: Hot side and manifold are very very close, the whole turbo kit is a pretty tight fit which involved some inventive bodgery in places, but we will be wrapping the whole thing before it sees any real boost so shouldn't be too much of a problem, fingers crossed of course.
FOZZY2000
10-04-2008, 19:45
DAN i have just read this whole thread its awsome mate:thumbs:
my wife is moaning now haha about an hour trying to explain the differance between this and my ca18det oh well she still none the wiser,
keep up the good work ha ha:sxoc:
mattkeeber
11-04-2008, 08:31
Matt: I'm taking absolutely no responsibility for that little lot! Good luck with the build though. :)
lol ;) It was this thread among others (and the rebuild DVD) that inspired me to have a crack myself. Must say it's far far easier than I'd ever imagined. While it won't be quite as all out as this project (I'm keeping my KS twins) I'm going custom v-mount too, so it's not exactly a textbook job.
Got the 19mm crank pulley nut off, but the 54mm nut has stopped me dead in my tracks - awaiting a oxy bottle from work to put some heat into it and a 7ft breaker bar. I've never encounted anything so fricking tight before. :wack:
[/thread hijack]
We had quite a good days work on saturday, it's nice to be making some real progress again week on week instead of every now and then.
First off, as the rain was pretty much on/off all afternoon, we set up our hi-tech, water repellant protective enclosure, otherwise known as a tarp and some string:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00121.jpg
Then it was down to the bottom of the garden to release the engine into the (currently sunny, typical) outdoors for the first time in over a year. :) That's Rich, the owner of the car, by the way.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00123.jpg
Bloody stairs.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00124.jpg
We did have some headroom issues with the tarpaulin...
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00127.jpg
Right, onto business, we cleaned up and then re-fitted the sump and the engine mounts:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00128.jpg
With probably far too much sealant but you can't be too careful I suppose.
Then we positioned it over the bay, according to the time stamp on the photo, this was about 1.55 pm.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00129.jpg
The next picture was taken at 5.00 pm, yes it took us 3 hours to manhandle the bloody thing into position. don't ask, just do not bother asking.
"refitting is the reverse of removal" thanks Mr Haynes.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00130.jpg
But it is in quite nicely now, we were a little worried about clearance between the turbo and the suspension tower, but as you can see, you could get a bus through there! result.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00131.jpg
We then bolted a few things up, p/s pump, starter motor, a few water pipes etc etc, and decided to call it a day and bugger off down the pub, so no turning of the key as yet.
It does sit like it was supposed to now, I really can't wait to get this thing on the road.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00132.jpg
Hopefully, we will do the grand key turning ceremony next weekend, as long as rich has the guts for it, I think he is putting it off on purpose, 'cos he doesn't want to see the whole thing go up in a big expensive cloud of smoke. (which won't happen, obviously)
Good work chaps! Keep it up.:)
I remember when I turned the key after I rebuilt my SR........:smash::eek: Sure it will be fine.:)
PS Loving the "old boy" as me and my mate call the grey haired gentlemen. Every workshop should have one, mine does, and they always come in handy!:nod::)
mattkeeber
14-04-2008, 14:51
Excellent progress..
Is there a reason why you've not bolted the oil cooler pipes in while the engine was out?... (sorry for the stupid questions but i'll be going through this soon :wack:)
StormBleeder
14-04-2008, 16:43
PS Loving the "old boy" as me and my mate call the grey haired gentlemen. Every workshop should have one, mine does, and they always come in handy!:nod::)
The "old boy" you so correctly spotted was my dad or the "Silver fox" to his friends. :thumbs: Who was a great help as he turned up just when we needed a third pair of hands.
Is there a reason why you've not bolted the oil cooler pipes in while the engine was out?... (sorry for the stupid questions but i'll be going through this soon :wack:)
Nope no particular reason, I think most people put them on, but the rear oil line can get in the way of the power steering pump on the way in. I don't think it matters that much though if they're on or not when inserting the engine and they're easy to put on afterwards so no worries either way. :smash: :thumbs:
After the engine was lifted into the car, I started hooking up the loom to the car. As I'm doing this I can hear Dan saying things like "I wonder what else it can lift???", funny I thought so looked round to see what he was on about and saw this.
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/CraneDan.jpg
He is actually completely off the floor at this point as well. :wack: :smash:
[QUOTE=StormBleeder;3935415]The "old boy" you so correctly spotted was my dad or the "Silver fox" to his friends. :thumbs: Who was a great help as he turned up just when we needed a third pair of hands.
Yep, as I say, no workshop should be without one!:D
LOL at the engine crane antics.
Is there a reason why you've not bolted the oil cooler pipes in while the engine was out?... (sorry for the stupid questions but i'll be going through this soon :wack:)
I thought the reason was because we are a bit dopey and we forgot to put them on, as usual it sounds like Rich is one step ahead of me, either that or he is just trying to hide our stupidity. :)
Aside from the engine crane being able to comforably lift things other than engines, I was most surprised that my belt loops held me up without a problem, good jeans.
StormBleeder
15-04-2008, 10:30
FAO mattkeeber:
Ignore my previous statement, Dan is completely right....I now know this as I fitted the oil coolers last night and the rear pipe actually goes behind the plate that holds the power steering pump on so was a git to fit after the engine was in. :annoyed: :smash:
On a more general update, I tightened up the clutch and fitted the oil cooler lines and the power steering pump pulley wheel last night. Still a reasonable amount of work to do before I can turn the key, but hopefully I'll get more done on Wednesday night. :thumbs:
Wednesday night? I didn't know you were putting in evening shifts, am I not invited then? The cheek of it.
The key WILL turn at the weekend Rich, have faith, and a bit of nerve and it will all be fine :)
StormBleeder
15-04-2008, 15:17
Of course you're invited mate, it's just that you have something called a social life. I to one day hope to have such a thing. :D
Wednesday I want to get the last bit of the clutch done and then bleed the system, so that'll be another job off the list. Oh and I want to try and get the ecu all plumbed in and connected and also find somewhere for it to live.
A little more progress this weekend, although it was no fun what with it being cold and wet and generally nasty, we haven't got it fired up yet, we seem to have reached the 'snagging little annoying bits' stage, and I would much rather be stood around scratching my head on a warm dry day than in the arctic temperatures we had saturday.
With a little help from the silver fox we got a stubborn clutch master bolt off at last, we just wanted to remove a spring from inside it but it fought Rich's attempts to remove it for about a week. Silver fox got it off in minutes. :)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00133.jpg
After getting this off we tried to bleed the clutch but it wasn't playing ball so we need a new seal kit for the slave and possibly master too, they rot when left standing for so long apparently.
Here is a pic of the lovely ceramic coated downpipe and the wastegate with screamer pipe, mmmmmmmmmmm.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00135.jpg
We got the cat out to replace it with a straight through pipe (rich says he will get a silencer installed at a later date, yeah right) the difference in weight is incredible, should help offset the extra weight of that big tubby...
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00136.jpg
We couldn't put the new pipe on because the studs were screwed into the catted mid pipe both ends and the new pipe is not threaded for studs so we need some nice new beefy bolts to do it up. They should arrive this week.
Here is the engine bay as it looks now, rad and intercooler v-mount setup is in and looking tasty, all the water pipes are sorted, but Rich ordered the wrong size air pipes so we will do them this week too. We reckon we will need less than 300mm of intercooler pipe, and most of that is just to join silicon bends together, not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing, more pipe means more time for air to cool right?
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00137.jpg
Oh, also, does anyone know if the AST needs to be roughly level height-wise with the filler neck or can we put it in lower down?
And finally, here is why we couldn't do any work on the car on sunday, we may have had a couple of drinks on saturday night...
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00138.jpg
:) update next monday.
Hehehe, when i took my car off my body was undeneath it - I thought i'd accidentally removed the gearbox by mistake :wack: It's huge and weighs the same as the moon!
I was under the impression the AST needs to be the highest point in the system - mine's basically adjacent to the filler neck and slightly higher (but only marginally)
Looking good guys, nice work :)
Hehehe, when i took my cat off my body was undeneath it - I thought i'd accidentally removed the gearbox by mistake :wack: It's huge and weighs the same as the moon!
Yeah, I did that too. great minds, eh?
Thanks for the advice on the AST, just means we will have to make a longer bracket for it, shouldn't be a problem at all. :)
Dan_dan, how you doing? hows the car? Running yet? :thumbs:
How the devil did i miss this thread? Its stunning to see the dedication & knowledge that has been put in. I will watch & hope all is well when fired up .
Cool thread. I'd have an RX7 but petrol prices won't let me :(
StormBleeder
05-05-2008, 00:39
Just a quick update...
We got the boost controller solenoid, FPR and AST fitted, as well as getting the boost network all finished.
Now all she needs is the mid-pipe fitting and some fluids and we can turn her over. So hopefully by Tuesday either DanDan or I will have a vid of the initial long awaited firing. :D
StormBleeder
05-05-2008, 15:10
I would just like to say that......She works!!!!!!!!! :D :smash:
We filled it full of vital fluid and primed it, fired very stongly and held a steady idle. :thumbs:
DanDan did get a vid, although he missed the initial start. :wack: He'll probably upload it tomorrow.
:notworthy :cool: Freakin' awesome dude! Was bad enough for me starting it after my V-mount, you must have been bricking it!
Awesome awesome stuff - run in miles then mapping? what's the plan?
mattkeeber
05-05-2008, 15:19
Brilliant! Excellent news! :D
StormBleeder
05-05-2008, 17:07
:notworthy :cool: Freakin' awesome dude! Was bad enough for me starting it after my V-mount, you must have been bricking it!
Awesome awesome stuff - run in miles then mapping? what's the plan?
I think "bricking it" is an understatement, turning the key was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. :)
Plan is 750 mile run in, mainly because I've changed the stationary gear bearings and want them well bedded in before I give it some beans. After that it's heading to RE:Worx for a map. Just need to get insurance, mot and tax sorted now. :eek:
I think "bricking it" is an understatement, turning the key was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. :)
Plan is 750 mile run in, mainly because I've changed the stationary gear bearings and want them well bedded in before I give it some beans. After that it's heading to RE:Worx for a map. Just need to get insurance, mot and tax sorted now. :eek:
I bet you was like "should i start it or do it later" lol that's beautiful. Be quick bout the vid! I nearly picked up a broken type-r because of this thread, it was to far and i didn't have a transporter, so i gave it a miss! Good work lads :thumbs::nod::thumbs:
Well so much for my surprise post announcing the amzing fact that we actually made an engine that works, i'll just throw some media at you instead.
Boost solenoid mounted (had to be shifted slightly as it fouled the bonnet, but no big deal) and boost pipe holes tapped straight into the turbo neck (ooo err) Things still need routing nice an neatly but you get the idea.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00148.jpg
We are putting the AST here:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00149.jpg
Time to get the bumper on after mounting the front fuse box upside down behind the slam panel:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00150.jpg
Looks cool, needs a new bumper at some point but this will do for now.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00151.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00152.jpg
FPR and gauge, gauge not mounted yet:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00153.jpg
Bonnet on, check out the mould green finish, yum:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00154.jpg
And our upper class rain deflection solution that I bought for monday, when it typically dried up and got all sunny:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00155.jpg
And the best bits, turning it over after priming the oil without the fuel fuse in, hoping it was going to start on this turn:
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4_SofelBTeY"> </param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4_SofelBTeY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"> </embed> </object>
But no, and as soon as i stopped the camera to look for any plugs we had missed or other simple fixes, rich decided to turn the key again and it fired absolutely beautifully after only one or two turns of the starter. I missed the actual firing but here it is idling cold and high:
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZWVQGsyVmL0"> </param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZWVQGsyVmL0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"> </embed> </object>
And this clip sounds like a tractor on the video but in the flesh it sounded superb, just a little blip to 2000rpm, rich was being very very safe:
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yEhxRT_GTRA"> </param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yEhxRT_GTRA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"> </embed> </object>
May need to wait a few minutes for the vieos to upload properly.
And thats it really, idle sounded totally spot on, steady with a little quaver now and again, hopefully hinting at decent port shapes for good power. We need to change the clutch seals, get intercooler piping, a couple of hose clips, and give it a bloody good wash and it's ready for a trip to the MOT station I reckon. :)
Nice! the exhaust note suonds good! :smitten:
mattkeeber
06-05-2008, 14:54
That idle sounds pretty good. Impressive work lads. Those 750 run-in miles are going to be HELL. lol
I've spend ALL bankholiday up to my arms in degreaser cleaning all the housings and that down, man what a boring job. lol I can't wait to get my bits and start rebuilding it
John Bennett
06-05-2008, 15:03
Nice work :cool:
It may have been mentioned in the thread, but what does it cost, parts-wise to rebuild a basic engine (i.e. just the block, and keeping it standard)?
mattkeeber
06-05-2008, 15:12
(sorry to butt in here dan-dan)
Totally depends on what's gone wrong in the engine. Luckily mine was just a water seal that had started to leak, and all my rotor housings, end plates and rotors were still in tolerance, so can be reused. In which case, my rebuild kit, consisting of all the seals, gaskets, springs and such are costing me £800 + my own time.
If a apex seal for instance broke and had gouged all the housings, rotor's, end plates + whatever else it takes along it's way, you can easily be into the £2500+ area with new parts before even touching the engine with your hands. That said however, you'll have an all new engine. For an equivalent piston engine it would be like buying the block new too, not just reboring it to suit oversize pistons (for arguments sake)
John Bennett
06-05-2008, 15:45
Crikey, that could quite a big bill.
Can you usually predict if it's just seals/tips, or it's going to need a new block?
(e.g. if you got one with 70k that ran but compression was getting a bit lower than stock, but not zero, would the block stand a chance of being ok, or does worn tips = dead block?)
Yeah thats basically dead right. You WILL know if a tip has gone, but alternatively you can spot signs of water seal failure, or like you said a low compression engine and rebuild it before it kills itself too badly. We fall into the £2500+ category, what with the only re-used block parts being the rotors which last forever basically. It does mean we have a brand new engine so it should be good. fingers crosed
mattkeeber
06-05-2008, 16:24
Worn apex seals(rotor-tips) doesn't always mean a dead housing / endplate, they wear over time anyway leading to poor compression, however general wear and tear on the housings and endplates in a high miler could leave them out of tolerance with regards to being flat or worn in a particular area. You're in the lap of the gods when it comes to finding out what you'll need to rebuild it, you might be lucky, you might not be.
If the apex seal had broke, you'd know about it - it would be fudged! :D
With regards to my rebuild and water seals again, I had sweet smelling white smoke on startup and excessive coolant loss with no leaks. Did a champagne test (to check for exhaust gas bubbles in the coolant and it failed, altho no-where near as bad as some youtube vids!) - So it was pretty obvious in that respect. My engine had only done 34,000 since the last rebuild in japan, so all my tolerances are coming in at the 'midpoint' of their service life - ok to reuse but in an ideal (and cash-less) world, would be nicer to replace for peace of mind
Hi everyone, I just wrote this post and then my computer had a dizzy spell and lost it so I will write a slightly abridged version, what with being quite lazy and that.
Rich has time off work, so he rewired rad fans, powered up boost controller, fitted boost gauge, final fitted intercooler.
He also ran the engine, we have a water leak which means new water pump is needed.
He picked up water pump and housing (just in case) today along with intercooler pipes and the clutch master and slave seal kits, so I think we have everything we need now.
We also had a crack at cleaning the filthy bloody thing:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/dandantrash/richs%20rebuild/DSC00162.jpg
It is now only 4 colours (red, pink, pinky white and orange) instead of 5 colours (mould green) but it still needs some serious attention paintwork wise.
Any cleaning gurus out there in sxoc land who fancy coming to Bursledon for a nose around the RX should get in touch with me or Rich, he will be happy to pay you for your time, or just get any advice for getting the 18months of baked on sh*t off it so we can attack the paint underneath!
That's it for now, work will be done over the weekend, and who knows, maybe a shot of it on the road next week...? :)
Looking good mate! In a pinky kind of way.
I think the best bet is going to be get someone around with a polishing machine.:nod: I did on my car after I did my engine build.
There is a guy on here who does it all properly for like £150 or something, although I did lots of mine myself and when the local guys came around to polish it with a machine they only charged £20. But it wasn't pink like yours.:wack:
Aces, good stuff.
Although you have made it all seem so simple that you've got me thinking about stripping my perfectly good, but 14 year old engine, to pre-emptively replace all the water seals, and throw some ports into the mix...
Damn you :indiff:
But seriously, keep up the good work, and keep up with the updates :) Top stuff.
I was only saying to Rich yesterday that looking at the car as it is now, I can't believe we actually did all that work to it, engine removal, stripping, rebuild, replace so many parts, and re-fitting and modification, it seems unreal! The thread does make it look easy but trust me we had plenty of head scratching frustrating moments that we didnt write about!
Oh, I forgot to mention Rich got an insurance quote the other day, the quote was...
£328 :eek: :eek: :eek:
StormBleeder
23-05-2008, 18:27
As DanDan said, I've been trying to finish it off, but the list of things to do seems to get longer not shorter. :wack:
Replaced the water pump today, in the pic you can see some orange gasket. That was all over it and has to come off so the new one could go on....me + razorblade + 50 minutes = no more gasket. :D
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/Waterpump-1.jpg
Then I cut up some pipe and added some silcon and now it looks almost drivable. :thumbs:
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/StormBleeder/finished.jpg
There are still a few jobs left to do...
Rebuild the clutch slave
Rebuild the clutch master
Get new battery
find a home for ECU. :wack:
Refill coolant
I think that's it, so as Dan says we might have a pic of it moving soon. :thumbs:
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