View Full Version : Superchargers vs. Turbochargers
OK - been weighing up the pros and cons of the two...
Turbo
Pros : 'free' power, easy to vary boost, fairly easy to upgrade. Fairly cheap.
Cons : Can be laggy, poor throttle response, power comes in a big lump...
Supercharger
Pros : much better throttle response than turbo, especially if it's coldside mounted. Linear power delivery - just feels like a larger engine is fitted.
Cons : Coldside blowers can't be run with an IC. Harder to change boost (pulley swap). Costly.
Looking at most of the 'specialist' track weapons, they tend to be supercharged - Exige, Ariel Atom etc
Most of the performance road cars tend to be turbo'd or big displacement N/A (apart from big mercs, jags etc)
Whichever choice I make will be going on an MX5, which is so much fun because of the snappy throttle response and it's balance - my worry is with a turbo this will be spoilt... Both super and turbo would get me to a sensible level of power (240BHP is limit of the stock internals), just with very different 'character'...
I'm guessing I have to get drives in both of them, but any other comments are appreciated :)
The Chef
24-09-2006, 23:02
Sorry - I can't offer any advice as I know nothing about engines but.... Whats stopping you (appart from the obvious - cash) fitting both a supercharger and a turbo?? or is it technically impossible - at least you wouldn't be dissapointed!
It is possible to fit both - compound charging, and iirc, some of the rally cars used it years ago...
Bit OTT for a reliable 200-240HP though ;)
Given the choice between the two (all other things being equal) I'd go for the supercharger: a linear predictable instant power delivery. A turbo is a compromise, and it gets more of a problem the more highly tuned the engine is. :)
spencer_foxwell
24-09-2006, 23:15
My mate has a Eunos and it used to be turbo, he is now on his way to me with a new supercharger so I will let you know! :thumbs:
By the way he is on the board as speedfreak :)
I know speedfreak / sausages from mx5nutz :)
TomM : This is what I'm thinking :)
spencer_foxwell
24-09-2006, 23:19
Indeed :cool:
Supercharger.
Or even better, twin charge.
I drive the TSI Golfs daily, they are superb.
spencer_foxwell
24-09-2006, 23:49
I just got back and I would say for the 5 get a supercharger it's got great torque on all gears at any rpm and whines like a goodun :thumbs:
jackson racing supercharger :nod:
The Big Yin
25-09-2006, 11:22
dont supercharge an MX5
my mate has done a 1.8 and it has cased him nothing but greif
he used the jackson racing kit from america
it is easy tp up the power on a supercharger just change the pulley it is right at the front piss easy to do
who says you cant fit an intercooler to an MX5
my mate has one fitted to his
Big Yin
dont supercharge an MX5
my mate has done a 1.8 and it has cased him nothing but greif
he used the jackson racing kit from america
it is easy tp up the power on a supercharger just change the pulley it is right at the front piss easy to do
who says you cant fit an intercooler to an MX5
my mate has one fitted to his
Big Yin
There are different kits out there - some are better than others... Someone I know has a JR kit, and he keeps chewing belts up, melting tensioners etc.
You can fit an IC to a hotside supercharger (ie. the charger is above the exhaust manifold) - but then you increase the throttled volume, so you lose some throttle response.
With a coldside charger, the blower is on the inlet side, right against the air intake for the head - so you get better throttle response, but there's no way of intercooling it - the air comes straight out of the charger and into the head...
The Big Yin
25-09-2006, 12:18
well he has put an IC on his jackson kit and it has helped the performance of the car
he hasnt chewed any belts he as just had a lot of problems with the engine since he fitted that and the greddy e-manage
he is takingthe e-mange out nowas it is causing lots of problems
he said he wished he had went for a trbo now
Why is the emanage causing probs?
Is he over on www.mx5nutz.com? Plenty of knowledge over there on FI on mx5's, and they are always helpful :)
Are jackson racing superchargers really that bad?
The Big Yin
25-09-2006, 12:28
ever since the e-manage has been fitted it has blown 4 coilpacks
he ran the charger for a whikle without the managment and never had problems as soon asd the e-manage was fitted stuff started to go wrong. like blowing the packs
Are jackson racing superchargers really that bad?
I think they had problems with some of the early kits, which they fixed later on (bigger belts, better tensioners etc).
The same as with the nissan I suppose, you can't just slap a kit on - you have to get the mapping right, fuel delivery, etc etc
insanewayne
25-09-2006, 12:48
just put a more powerfull engine in it.
you can get 200- 240 bhp from a 20ltr N/A engine.
:)
John Bennett
25-09-2006, 12:59
I prefer turbochargers on smaller engines. The supercharged exige still needs to be revved high to get the real grunt, it's just progressive power rather than WHAM at 3000rpm.
A con of the supercharger missing above is the crank power used to drive the unit.
I prefer turbochargers on smaller engines. The supercharged exige still needs to be revved high to get the real grunt, it's just progressive power rather than WHAM at 3000rpm.
A con of the supercharger missing above is the crank power used to drive the unit.
The wham at 3000 revs is also a downside - in the wet, mid corner etc it can chuck the car off balance...
I meant to put parasitic loss as a -ve for a charger, forgot :)
speedfreek
25-09-2006, 14:33
I had a homebrew turbo set up on my car.
TD02 turbo - mega fast spool up
Custom manifold, downpipe and decat
320cc injectors
Duel feed fuel rail
FMIC (off an s13 oddly enough)
Innovate LC-1 wideband
Greddy emanage with 2.5bar weber map sensor
HKS SSQV
Lightning fast spool up, nice power delivery and rather quick - made around 200bhp on the rollers.
Now i have:
Jackson Racing M45 supercharger
67.5mm nose pulley
Greddy emanage
Greddy map sensor
Dual feed fuel rail
4-2-1 tubular manifold, decat, larger bore backbox
It feels immensely fast - just as fast as the turbo setup. In any gear you just put your foot down and off you go.
I have already lined up some larger injectors so i can ditch my AFPR and i will be chargecooling it and plonking on a much larger crank pulley and a much smaller nose pulley.
Its great fun and having had both types of FI on the car, i would go S/C every time.
The 1.8 coldside kit is being developed and will be released very very soon for the MP62 - and is already out i believe for the MP42. A 1.6 coldside kit for the 42 is being developed as we speak.
If you want a ride in my motor for comparitive purposes, give me a PM on either forum mate :)
speedfreek
25-09-2006, 14:37
ever since the e-manage has been fitted it has blown 4 coilpacks
he ran the charger for a whikle without the managment and never had problems as soon asd the e-manage was fitted stuff started to go wrong. like blowing the packs
Then it was fitted wrong. On www.mx5nutz.com there are a massive contingent of people with emanage blues. Me included. I have had one on a turbo and supercharged mx5 with no issues at all. I would suggest that the wiring was bad - and/or the tuning was suspect.
Did he have a wideband o2 sensor? Without that i would love to know how the AFR's were controlled.
The 1.8 coldside kit is being developed and will be released very very soon for the MP62 - and is already out i believe for the MP42. A 1.6 coldside kit for the 42 is being developed as we speak.
I'm interested in how the coldside kits cope being non intercooled on a track - if they end up heatsoaked, or they work ok :)
Discussions with Phil @ P5 are ongoing ;)
I'd be interested in a ride mate :)
Cheers,
Jon
WeirdNeville
10-05-2007, 02:55
A mate has a S/C Mx5, I was out for a run with him last year. It sounds great, and is very very fast. In an Mx5 I'd go with the supercharger. It's more in keeping with the nimble design of the little blighters!
I'm sure he'll be along soon, but Jon actually went for a Turbo kit. He's running a T25 and my god is it quick. It doesn't feel peaky at all, very progressive. (including passenger seat Paralax) he would be doing 110mph before the braking point for Padock Hill Bend at Brands hatch, where I'd be doing 90mph. 20mph is a big difference :D
i myself would prefer a high revving N/A car over a supercharged one.
i prefer turbos on some cars, like skylines, 200sx's supra's etc.
i just love revving high!
i just dont really like superchargers that much. maybe because the power delivery is instant (cant scare your passengers shitless as much as you can with a turbo) or maybe because supercharger sounds so cheesey:p
I'm sure he'll be along soon, but Jon actually went for a Turbo kit. He's running a T25 and my god is it quick.
Yep :)
I did loads of research, and ended up going with a turbo... I'm running a BB T25 - so no lag, boost from about 1500RPM onwards, full boost by about 2500RPM. I'm only running 8PSI at the moment :)
I found some dyno plots from the US, of a supercharged 5 overlaid with a turbo 5 with a smallish turbo (T25 again) - they were near enough identical powerwise, torquewise they were very similar, but the turbo car had a bit more.
speedfreek
10-05-2007, 08:57
glad you are enjoying it mate :)
The turbo was damn fun :p
I've got both :wack: ............but not on the same car ! !
turbo on silvia , compressor on yaris.
The compressor has more of a kick when it comes in, and makes a great strange noise :D
The turbo is smoother comming in.
The compressor runs alot cooler than a turbo, with none of the heat problems of a turbo.
Saying that i wouldnt swap my turbo:sxoc:
http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=45407&stc=1&d=1178746892
Think I got mine a bit warm at brands yesterday :o
gofaster_s13
10-05-2007, 17:40
I fitted a Lysholm screw charger on the G/F's Corrado and it has amazing power delivery right through the rev range, but it is LOUD and I don't usually mind loud cars(greddy dd exhaust on my s13) but the Lysholm chargers are reputed to be virtually indestructable:thumbs:
ever since the e-manage has been fitted it has blown 4 coilpacks
he ran the charger for a whikle without the managment and never had problems as soon asd the e-manage was fitted stuff started to go wrong. like blowing the packs
So he never actually had any problems caused by the super charger, the same problems would no doubt have occured using poorly set up e-manage with a turbo. :rolleyes:
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