View Full Version : Recommend a cheap track car...
:)
Criteria:
- Relatively cheap to buy (circa £1k...)
- VERY cheap to maintain (so not sure about turbocharged cars :p)
- light weight
- decent brakes and suspension as standard
- Lots of scope for tuning
At the moment I am thinking 205 GTi 1.9 :nod: but I hate working on french cars :o :D
S13 is a :no: (cant be arsed with hassle of big ends, etc)
S14 is a :no: as needs alot of money spending for it to be quick on track
Ideas?
yeah, mk1 mr2 or some old 7 type thing, robin hood, dutton ect.
We also have this thread ..
http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=204817&highlight=trackcar
and this almost identical thread ...
http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=189158
There was a track prepared BM 320/318 for sale for £500 at Elvington last weekend :)
sunnybono
10-05-2006, 08:23
318is over a 318i or a 320. one for sale near me for 595.
A later model 1.6 205 GTI would be good, lighter nose and better turn in than the 1.9 :nod:
BM's arent my 'thing' and wont be cheap to run.... MX5 / MR2 are going to be sheds at my price bracket...
Reading those threads Kev posted up it seems the 309 / 205 is a favourite... I wonder if *AB* still has the 309 for sale :D
You cant seriously be telling me youd prefer a 205 to a rwd proper drivers car? Old BMs are going to be dirt cheap to run, what makes you think theyd be exspensive? :confused:
You cant seriously be telling me youd prefer a 205 to a rwd proper drivers car? Old BMs are going to be dirt cheap to run, what makes you think theyd be exspensive? :confused:
Not really no but BMW parts arent cheap :no:
E30 or E36?
I can pickup a E30 320i for £500 :)
I couldnt think of anything worse than having to race around a track in a scrabble wagon?!!!! I am sure you can find something better :nod: What makes you think the Pug's are reliable?!! :wack:
My vote would be shock horror, S13. Cheap to buy, Cheap(ish) to run, and tuneable. You are NOT gonna get a car that can be tuned up on the cheap if you buy a non turbo.
Butuz
Not really no but BMW parts arent cheap :no:
You'd be very suprised:nod:
I would SERIOUSLY look at Mk1 MR2's:nod: You can get a good one for alot less than £1000, they are track ready out of the box and the handling is amazing. Will be bomb proof reliable, and cheap to run. You really cant go wrong:no:
The E30 318is is also worth a look, but a good one will cost you about £1000 - £1500.
Not really no but BMW parts arent cheap :no:
If you avoid BMW dealers, then they are pretty cheap - eurocarparts and GSF do a pretty comprehensive range, all at very cheap prices...
They handle nicely too, and make a nice sound.
318is is quicker than the 320, and probably has stiffer suspension, and bodykit...
320 makes a nicer noise ;) 325 is the daddy though ;)
E30 or E36?
I can pickup a E30 320i for £500 :)
For a track car, get the E30, MUCH more fun, but avoid the 320i, it's under powered. Get the 318is of the 325is (but the 325is will set you back nearing £2k).
I also think youll be surpised at the price of BMW spares. We can get a load of dirt cheap BM consumables, there are lots of aftermarket places doing cheap BM bits :nod:
Sounds interesting....
So what engines do the 318is / 318 / 320 etc have as I know they are a little strange as my Dads 318i has a 2.0 engine in it :wack:
sunnybono
10-05-2006, 09:59
What Jem said!
318is over the 325is price wise.
318is has the M42B18 engine.
"The crank is forged (rather than cast) and is fitted with 8 counterweights. It can be used at revs up to 7200rpm. The forged steel con-rods are 12g lighter than the M40's due to finite element analysis techniques. Pistons are slightly lighter too, contain 20% of the combustion volume and are notched to clear the valves. A dual mass flywheel was fitted to reduce low speed vibration."
http://www.esatclear.ie/~bpurcell/m42curves.jpg
http://www.esatclear.ie/~bpurcell/318istechinfo.html
http://www.esatclear.ie/~bpurcell/index.html
Just found a black BMW 318is at a local breakers yard too :D
Some panel damage but drives fine apparently...
sunnybono
10-05-2006, 10:13
problem solved then :)
For a track car, get the E30, MUCH more fun, but avoid the 320i, it's under powered. Get the 318is of the 325is (but the 325is will set you back nearing £2k).
320 isn't all that slow - slower than the 318is though. Once you get them wound up, they actually go well - smooth as silk so you can sit on the redline ;)
The BMW racing series use 320's from what I remember.
Upside for the 320 is that you can pull out the 2.0 and put in a 2.5 - it will drop straight in, even the existing ECU will work ;) You can also put in the hybrid engines (combination of different blocks and heads) that take you up around the 200BHP mark.
Downsides for e30's is that some of them are starting to rot, a lot of the 325's and 318is have had hard lives, the steering is slow (lots of turns lock to lock)..
You may be able to get an e36 325 for that sort of money now - ~200BHP, very nice to drive, strong engines (especially if you get the early non VVT/VaNoS one) - bit porkier than the e30's, but stripped out it would be OK, and there's loads of tuning options...
Moby-Dick
10-05-2006, 10:17
12g lighter than the M40's due to finite element analysis techniques.
worst....grammer....ever :)
thats just really badly written techno-babble :)
using FEA to design a component doens't automatically make it better , but it does mean that they can simulate the fabirication to a higher degree of accuracy. This means they can refine the design further , thus saving weight.
For the a track car though, I'd get a MK1 MR2 everytime though:nod:
A dual mass flywheel was fitted to reduce low speed vibration."
avoid :nod:
sunnybono
10-05-2006, 10:58
before i get slated. i didnt write any of that :wack: was copied and pasted.
whats wrong with a dual mass fly wheel btw?
whats wrong with a dual mass fly wheel btw?they break :D great for business :wack:
Superhero
10-05-2006, 13:13
I know this isn't going to be popular, but i'd go with the 205 every time!
Quicker round a track than one of the lower model E30's IMO. Cheap parts and they handle like there on rails :thumbs:
Plenty of fun!
I know this isn't going to be popular, but i'd go with the 205 every time!
Quicker round a track than one of the lower model E30's IMO. Cheap parts and they handle like there on rails :thumbs:
Plenty of fun!
But :ghey: wheel drive:nod:
I dont have a problem with FWD to be honest... I know what they are capable of if setup properly but I AM liking the idea of a stripped out, race prepared BMW 318is E30 :D
Superhero
10-05-2006, 13:18
But :ghey: wheel drive:nod:
True! :) But cracking handling and cheap to modify. Don't care which wheels there driven by, you can make a good track car out of one ;)
I'd fit a quaife diff, losing the scrabble and then your sorted. Only £500 and an hour of fiddling :thumbs:
sunnybono
10-05-2006, 13:19
sell it to me when you are finished :D
Superhero
10-05-2006, 13:21
sell it to me when you are finished :D
I've got one already! 205 Mi16, safety devices roll cage, quaife diff and a few more fun bits! Not for sale though, far too much fun ;)
I'd fit a quaife diff, losing the scrabble and then your sorted. Only £500 and an hour of fiddling :thumbs:
You can buy a decent MK1 MR2 for £500;)
Superhero
10-05-2006, 13:25
You can buy a decent MK1 MR2 for £500;)
That i can't argue with :thumbs:
Having said that, Engine_Swap did say £1,000, you can get a 205 for £500 to...
The cheaper the better as far as am concerned as can then spend remaining money on tuning it ;)
Superhero
10-05-2006, 13:32
The cheaper the better as far as am concerned as can then spend remaining money on tuning it ;)
Sensible! I started of with a 1.6 Gti. After all, an Mi16 engine is only a few hundred quid...;)
A couple already on ebay with a Mi16 engine installed for a few hundred notes :)
Superhero
10-05-2006, 13:36
A couple already on ebay with a Mi16 engine installed for a few hundred notes :)
Bargain. It'll make a great car... That's 160 bhp if its the right 1.9 alloy block. In a car that weighs around 800kg if you strip a fair bit out :)
Smokinmasta
10-05-2006, 17:48
205 or 309 GTi - there is a guy (cant remember his website - gary something or other) who has a nice 205 guttman which will embarrass most the children moaning about being FWD :eek: ..........arse out action is NOT the fastest way around a track, no matter how much fun it might be :D
Or even a Mk2 golf 16v..............as long as it's not a shed to begin with, they do handle well.
Anyone at Japfest last year remember the little black FWD starlet 1.3, that was running rings around much 'faster' 4WD and RWD 'proper cars'.................
205 or 309 GTi - there is a guy (cant remember his website - gary something or other) who has a nice 205 guttman which will embarrass most the children moaning about being FWD :eek: ..........arse out action is NOT the fastest way around a track, no matter how much fun it might be :D
Or even a Mk2 golf 16v..............as long as it's not a shed to begin with, they do handle well.
Anyone at Japfest last year remember the little black FWD starlet 1.3, that was running rings around much 'faster' 4WD and RWD 'proper cars'.................
Calling people on a 200SX website children for prefering rwd cars isnt going to go down too well.
arse out action is NOT the fastest way around a track, no matter how much fun it might be :D
Fun :D thats why I like driving :D
And RWD is faster, drift style might not be :rolleyes:
Smokinmasta
10-05-2006, 18:47
Calling people on a 200SX website children for prefering rwd cars isnt going to go down too well.
No just peeps who call it :ghey: etc and dont know any differant............last i knew we were a free country and allowed to have an opinion much like peeps saying FWD is :ghey: or don't that count :D It's just an opinion just like there's - does'nt make me or them right, its called an opinion and no more than that.........dont take it so badly Bren, it's said with tongue VERY firmly in cheek.................;) :) :)
And yes i DO prefer RWD BTW. That's why i should be picking up an S14a on Sunday.............hopefully!! and hanging the arse out on the way home showing them poxy FWD Euro hatches................OMG what am i saying........:D you get the idea ;)
RWD it may not be, but for cheap cheap cheap superb handling 309 GTI
RWD it may not be, but for cheap cheap cheap superb handling 309 GTI
Agreed :nod:
Firstly check the link in my sig :thumbs: you should be able to get a couple of hundred for the leather ;)
Otherwise
Mk1 or 2 Golf GTi
Mk2 XR2 (drop a 2.0 zetec in it and watch it fly :D )
No just peeps who call it :ghey: etc and dont know any differant............last i knew we were a free country and allowed to have an opinion much like peeps saying FWD is :ghey: or don't that count :D It's just an opinion just like there's - does'nt make me or them right, its called an opinion and no more than that.........dont take it so badly Bren, it's said with tongue VERY firmly in cheek.................;) :) :)
And yes i DO prefer RWD BTW. That's why i should be picking up an S14a on Sunday.............hopefully!! and hanging the arse out on the way home showing them poxy FWD Euro hatches................OMG what am i saying........:D you get the idea ;)
Fair comment. Im gagging for a Clio some day some Im not rwd fixated. I would be with just a couple of hundred quid to spend though ;)
MK2 Golf GTi 16v, Scirocco Scala, 205 GTi all easily got for less than £1000 :)
Smokinmasta
10-05-2006, 21:53
Its a pity That 2.0 16v Nova for sale on here is so much (£1700) i'd be quite tempted to turn that into neat little track tool !!!
Pug 309 still being used for tarmac rally in France - the 16v version we did'nt get, and no the mi16 is NOT the same - similar.
http://www.auto-sprint.com/asturias/images/Tineo2005020.jpg
How about this (http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=214252)? :)
How about this (http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=214252)? :)
A bit too tidy :o - I want a rough looking car so I cant be tempted to start polishing it :o :D
sr20-power
11-05-2006, 08:18
vw golf
renualt 5 turbo
pug 205/309
ford xr4i 2.8v6
thers plenty you can buy
205 or 309 GTi - there is a guy (cant remember his website - gary something or other) who has a nice 205 guttman which will embarrass most the children moaning about being FWD :eek: ..........arse out action is NOT the fastest way around a track, no matter how much fun it might be :D
Or even a Mk2 golf 16v..............as long as it's not a shed to begin with, they do handle well.
Anyone at Japfest last year remember the little black FWD starlet 1.3, that was running rings around much 'faster' 4WD and RWD 'proper cars'.................
His name is Gary and it is a 1.9 205 gti which I had a Pax lap in it around the Nurburgring. :eek: http://s8.invisionfree.com/Northloop/index.php?showtopic=817&st=75
The car indeed handles like its on rails and from the way Gary treats it I have no doubt they can take a fair amount of abuse with out any problems. :thumbs:
Have my 309Gti - you know you want to!
Have my 309Gti - you know you want to!
:D
:nod:
I just need to clear out the garage first then if you still have it will give you a shout :thumbs:
well in that case, stop surfing the SXOC and start cleaning
well in that case, stop surfing the SXOC and start cleaning
:p :D
Cant ... got boost problems :(
Smokinmasta
12-05-2006, 15:20
Have my 309Gti - you know you want to!
I had one from nearly new in 1992 (i had 1990 model).
And as try as i might, it would not lose shape!! It would grip and grip and GRIP!!
Only thing i could moan about was wheel spin in the damp/wet and understeer, again in the wet!!
Was the best predictable handling car i have had in many years - and i have had over 25 cars in 22 years driving!! + Bikes!
Not so sure how well it would campare with my 4WD VR4 mind!! :)
How do the honda CRX's hold up on the track, always thought they look like a lightweight trackable car?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.9 Copyright © 2012 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.