View Full Version : Apex Performance LSD has been tested and approved. Info and feedback on 1.5 vs 2 way
We have been testing a diff in our Skyline. We went for a 2 way as I enjoyed the loose back end of our drift car.
The diff is manufactured by a very well know and rerspect company but Im keeping the brand quiet as Ive spent a lot of money on various diffs seeing what works, whats quiet, what theyre like at slow speeds etc.
Ive now found one that is very civilised at slow speed. It does grab the inside wheel a little but it very subtle and quiet compared to other diffs Ive tried and wouldnt annoy me in a daily driver :no:
It does, however, does a fantastic job of putting the power down and we can accelerate hard out of second gear corners without the inside wheel just spinning up as it used to. Drifting is now a doddle. Im far from skilled at drifting but even I was able to link three tight corners without too much of a problem and that was on ultra sticky 235 Dunlop Do1J race/track tyres! :eek: :cool:
The diffs are £599 and we can supply 1.5 or 2 way. I might be able to offer an exchange basis, we send you a complete built up diff, you send us your old one once youve swapped them over.
A bit of feedback on LSD choice based on my experiences. We ran a 1.5 way in our S13. It was fantastic at getting the power down out of corners and was very controllable under decelleration and braking.
With the 2 way it drives like the 1.5 way on the road with excellent traction out fo corners and no problems with back end control. However I dont drive that hard on the road. Stick me on a track and its a different ball game. On a fast sweeping track the only time youll know you have a 2 way is on downshifts through the lower gears where the rear wheels will chirp.
I had no problem at Donnington or Brands Hatch but at Elvington this weekend just gone I HAD to leanr how to heel and toe as I was driving very hard especially under braking and as a result I was locking the back end which was starting to slide as I turned into corners.
I spent the morning learning how to heel and toe and as a result could brake very hard with fast downshifts without upsetting the back end in the slightest :)
I then started playing at sliding out of corners followed by actually using the ability of the 2 way diff to lock the back end. I still need a lot of practice but I was starting to deliberately pop the clutch just before the corner. This locked the back end and allowed me to turn in with the back wheels locked forcing the back end to slide. This meant than rather than just sliding out of the corner on the exit under power that I was able to set the car up sliding before the corner.
Dont get me wrong, Im crap at drifting but I can now see the difference between the 1.5 and 2 way.
Hi Bren,
Are these available now, would be looking for a 2-way exchange.
Any idea on carriage costs for such a heavy product?
We will have the next 2 way here any day and will send it straight off with a diff to be built up as soon as we get it.
Carriage from us would be £20.
Just give me a shout when you've got it ready, I'll defiantly take it.
Just one question, what type of oil would I need. I’m using Silktran SYN 5 75w-90 at the moment, will that be ok.
Thanks :thumbs:
Syn 5 is no good for a plated diff, you will get oil with the diff to run it in but it will need changing as soon as the diffs bedded and replaced. When you change it you should change it for something like Silkolene Boa.
stumitch
12-05-2006, 04:26
what will the differnce be between these and the others you stock ?? nismo and kaaz isn't it ??
These are just a mild diff, theyre more manageable at low speed :)
What sort of money are you looking at for an exchange?
I havent finalised a price yet.
Smirnoff
16-05-2006, 08:29
you should do a GB on this
Adam_AE86
08-06-2006, 21:59
What are the advantages over a Kazz etc ?
got ur old one on today Bren.
My god it likes to chirp:D
bloody embarrassing pulling out of junctions though, sounds like ur trying to peel out instead of just driving normally.
tell u what, reversing out of a parking space is scarey, sounds like sommat is gonna fall off the subby with a combination of the diff and the clutch :wack:
Theyre a smooth working diff although the smoothness has gone a little no we have fitted locking subframe collars. Its still much better than any other diff Ive driven though :)
Kev,
Do you like it?
I like it lots on roundabouts :D :D
Cars feels much better with it Bren.
hate it on reversing out of parking spaces, or basicaly anything that is going backwards and turning :wack:
On the whole, Very happy :)
What are the 2 ways like for everyday driving Bren??
Ive been looking for a diff for a while now but keep getting told not to get a 2 way for everyday road driving??
I wouldnt go for another 2 way for a fast road and/or track car. I have to heel and toe on every down shift when Im pressing on or the rear wheels lock as soon as the clutch is released.
Good fun when you want to play but if you cant heel and toe then it would be a pain in the ass. I had to learn to heel and toe very quickly to be able to keep proper control of the car. Its only an issue when youre really pushing on though, under normal swift progress its not a problem.
So would a 1.5way be a bit more controllable? I want to do some drift days, track days and alot of road driving!
I can heel and toe just not very well :wack:
Cheers, Sam :thumbs:
If you let the clutch out quickly then youll lock the rear wheels. If youre turning in at the same time then the back end will start to slide. Thats the whole point of the two way, to allow you to get the back end sliding on the entry of a corner.
If thats what you want to do with the car then its great. Im putting up with having to heel and toe because I prefer the stability of the car when heel and toeing so the fact thats its two way makes no odds to me except when I want to prat around at which point I just pop the clutch and let the car slide :)
I havent had a lot of chance to practice using the 2 ways capabilities as yet but the time I have spent playing has been a lot of fun :)
So a 2 way needs heel and toe on hard driving to stop it sliding? I want to be able to have fun which is the main reason for me wanting a 2 way! How easy do you think it would be to get a 1.5 way sliding?
Basically what I want is something thats easy to get the back end out when provoked but doesn't just swing it out when I dont want it to!
Bren, interested in this a lot, also interested if you could do the same build/exchange service for the other brands of diff.
So a 2 way needs heel and toe on hard driving to stop it sliding? I want to be able to have fun which is the main reason for me wanting a 2 way! How easy do you think it would be to get a 1.5 way sliding?
Basically what I want is something thats easy to get the back end out when provoked but doesn't just swing it out when I dont want it to!
this is the reasons i went for a 1.5 mate.
i dont want to worry about back road blats being scary, but i want it to drift when i want to drift.
when i fitted the diff, i went a run up the campsie fells which is very uneven surfaces and poor ish roads with lots of dips etc, so i figured if i was gonna get the car unstable, this wpuld be the road to do it.
But even on harsh downshifts into corners, all i got was a chirp from the tyres, nothing more, and the car felt much more positive on the accell out
this is the reasons i went for a 1.5 mate.
i dont want to worry about back road blats being scary, but i want it to drift when i want to drift.
when i fitted the diff, i went a run up the campsie fells which is very uneven surfaces and poor ish roads with lots of dips etc, so i figured if i was gonna get the car unstable, this wpuld be the road to do it.
But even on harsh downshifts into corners, all i got was a chirp from the tyres, nothing more, and the car felt much more positive on the accell out
Thats very helpful mate!! Is it still easy to get the back end out if you downgear hard enough without toe and heel?
Think a 1.5 way sounds like what I need :thumbs:
tbh mate, iv'e never tried to heel and toe, but i think u would need to be really trying, to put the back end out on gear down.
Like i said i was down shifting pretty harsh and it just chirped and gripped.
no heel and toe here.
but when i wanted it to come out, it did.
Iv'e only had about 60 miles of driving with it so far though, suspension geometry needs set up, so ill be able to comment better near the end of the week when iv'e had a good chance to try it out
tbh mate, iv'e never tried to heel and toe, but i think u would need to be really trying, to put the back end out on gear down.
Like i said i was down shifting pretty harsh and it just chirped and gripped.
no heel and toe here.
but when i wanted it to come out, it did.
Iv'e only had about 60 miles of driving with it so far though, suspension geometry needs set up, so ill be able to comment better near the end of the week when iv'e had a good chance to try it out
Ok thanks mate!
Credit card's going to take a battering this month :wack:
Youll get the back to step out on the power with no problem, it will just be harder to unsettle the car on turn in.
Imagine the 2 way as a handbrake that gets yanked on as you pop the clutch after downshifting, it locks the rear wheels like a handbrake does so the rear of the car slides. You wont get that with a 1.5 way.
Are you going to Oulton on the 20th Sam? Im there in the Skyline so will try to show you what I mean if you like.
http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=211647
Bren, interested in this a lot, also interested if you could do the same build/exchange service for the other brands of diff.
I dont see why not, as long as we supply the diff. What did you have in mind?
Here you go, a little vid from Oulton Park last weekend. You can see what happens when you dont heel and toe with a two way when pressing on:
Right click and save as (www.apexperformance.co.uk/vids/oultonheel.wmv)
testpilot
13-06-2006, 07:19
A couple of nervous laughs there:thumbs:
Ann wasnt too impressed but it didnt bother me, much. I like being semi out of control whilst entering a chicane with one hand groping under the dash for the boost controller :wack:
A couple of nervous laughs there:thumbs:
:nod: :D alot of diff noise too :)
Bit dodgy, although i heel and toe all the time, i would hate for something like that to happen, but i guess from what your saying a 1.5way will handle differntly, and only fully lock when applying power, not taking it off.
Theres littel diff noise. Im at the new unit now and this workstation doesnt have speakers (yet ;) ) so I cant play the vid to work out what the noise it but its probably not diff, you cant hear it much and when you can its only down to the locking collars :)
The 1.5 wont be as agressive as that :no: It will still chirp when you release the pedal but wont lock up the same :no:
You can see what happens when you dont heel and toe
Doesnt look that scary, I was expecting a bigger moment, but glad that was the worst of the day :thumbs:
Doesnt look that scary, I was expecting a bigger moment, but glad that was the worst of the day :thumbs:
Aye, not much at all really.
Getting the back end to slide on the way into corners is how I tend to drive at Elvington. Fun aint it :D but obviously Ive got to be a bit more aggressive with the VLSD compared to a proper 2 way LSD but at least i dont have to worry (to much) about it on B roads.
Does it come with a free giggle as in the vid ;)
It wasnt a moment but illustrates what I was saying nicely :thumbs: Its not scary at all having the back end sliding on a track, I was having a lot of fun with it at Elvington. Im not sure Id be so happy with it on the road though as you have to get the combination of entry speed, steering angle, level of tur in and speed of clutch release all timed to get the required angle.
Its easy to get it wrong.
Bren, are these 2 ways available right now??
How do they compare to Kaaz diffs as im ready to buy but can't decide to buy one of these or a Kaaz!!
Are these already built in a casing or do I have to use my existing diff casing??
Cheers, Sam :thumbs:
We have a 1.5 way in stock but can usually get the 2 way pretty quickly. They compare well with the Kaaz diffs ;)
We have a 1.5 way in stock but can usually get the 2 way pretty quickly. They compare well with the Kaaz diffs ;)
Ok and is the price for a fully complete diff with casing??
Or do I have to take mine out of the casing and replace it with this?
Is there a good reason why it compares well with the Kaaz diffs :p ;)
I do want a 2 way, been learning how to toe and heal alot lately so dont think i'd do to bad with it :thumbs:
No one suppliers a diff complete and ready to bolt on. Thats something we were looking at doing though if youre interested. We can get it built up here, send it out and you send your old one back when youve swapped them over.
No one suppliers a diff complete and ready to bolt on. Thats something we were looking at doing though if youre interested. We can get it built up here, send it out and you send your old one back when youve swapped them over.
So you use a diff casing youve already got, build it up, I swap them over and send you my diff back??
That sounds good :thumbs:
Yep :) Theres a surcharge for the build though, we have to pay someone to do it :nod:
Ok could you PM me a price on you doing my diff sending it me and then me giving you my diff??
I take it I get some money off for exchanging my diff??
A quote would be great!!
Have you got a price for doing this yet Bren??
Just need to trasfer some money over, will be ordering on Friday or Monday!
Cheers, Sam :thumbs:
Its difficult to price because until the jobs done we dont know how much labours involved. It could take one go and cost peanuts or the guys could be there all day. Its a trial and error process you see. Ill get a diff ordered in and fitted into the casing.
Its difficult to price because until the jobs done we dont know how much labours involved. It could take one go and cost peanuts or the guys could be there all day. Its a trial and error process you see. Ill get a diff ordered in and fitted into the casing.
Ok thats great Bren!!
Just let me know when its all fitted in the casing and ill whip my diff off and drive down, saves the bother of postage!
I'm interested if these are available for the MX5 (mk1 1.8) Bren, and if so what the damage would be :D
(ps. did you ever get the k-sport coilover fitting notes I did - mailed it ages ago but never got a reply....)
whats the price on a 2way bren??{exchange without casing}
cheers willie
I havent had chance to get the diffs down to our local builder :cry: Ill get them out tommorrow :)
I havent had chance to get the diffs down to our local builder :cry: Ill get them out tommorrow :)
Its ok Bren, that little lot I just got from you has left me a bit skint until I get payed!! Its only 2 weeks till I get payed though :thumbs:
Anymore news on these Bren??
Cheers, Sam :thumbs:
Any idea when they'll be ready Bren, before I spend all my money :wack:
Are they made for drift or track aswell??
We hit a snag, the ABS sensor is broken. Im not sure how well this exhchange thing will sork as the rebuild price varies wildly depending on how long the job takes. Ill sort yours and then knock it on the head I think. :(
What's the status of the LSD? :)
and then knock it on the head I think. :(
Dont think there doing them anymore :( Was intrested in one myself.
suprmek1
08-10-2006, 09:21
wasnt the tomei adv trax by any chance
BeerBringer
25-10-2006, 13:29
Any news on the LSD's Bren?
We are now back on with the diffs. The first one is being built now :)
:notworthy I know what im getting for xmas then ;)
Any idea on when the first diff will be ready? Is it a 1.5way or 2way?
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