View Full Version : I'm not buying trackday insurance
Ok, before I get shot down in flames... here are my reasons...
Correct me if I'm wrong.. or insane!
From what I understand trackday insurance only covers your own car. Therefore if I have an accident and smack into someone else they cannot claim from me. So the only reason for having trackday insurance is to cover the loss or damage to my car. The insurance won't even get me a ride home or get my car transported home :(
So unlike ordinary car insurance I'm not being irresponsible by not taking out insurance as other drivers cannot claim from me either way...
First example: If I value my car at £6,000 I have to pay a premium of about £70 for every trackday. If I have any accident I have to pay the first £600. Say I have an encounter with a tyre wall I could easily be looking at that for bodywork, but would I want to pay the first £600 (+ £70 for the premium) of say a £1200+ quote when I could possibly source some of the parts myself? Also, assume I have an accident on my 5th trackday (I've paid 5 premiums)... so I've now shelled out (5*70 + 600).... I've just paid for the first grand of the accident...
Next example: Car is a write-off. As far as I'm concerned the value of my car is the engine, modifications and the time I've spent working on it (The bodywork isn't in very good condition). If I wrote my car off, hopefully most of modifications would be salvageable. So I'm left with an excuse to find an S14/a with better bodywork and a busted engine and swap my mods into it.
Am I insane? or just fed up with being ripped of with high insurance premiums? I don't know :confused:
It makes House Insurance seem like a bargain, ~£160, house burns down, you're not left with a £180,000 debit to the mortgage company....
What do you think?
Richy_Boy
19-12-2005, 14:29
Maybe if your occupation was "pyromaniac" then your house then your insurance would be somewhat higher. I see what you mean, but their hardly comparable.
I suppose it's all swings and roundabouts, but if I had a £30k car and had to spend out, say, £1000 to get my car replaced or rebuilt after wanging it around a track, then it would be a bargain!
Rich
That was my theory too.
Worst case is you buy a high milage shell/car, swap engine + mods over, maybe replace FMIC damged suspension.
I reckoned that 10 trackdays @ £70 = £700, £700XS, you have spent £1400.
That gets you a shell/car with blown engine. Yes you have to do a lot of work to swap bits / recoop money for the doubled up parts ect ect ....
I put this into practise too, however the cost cant be used for comparison as mine was mainly rebuilt with donated bits :notworthy :notworthy
I've done 13 Trackdays now :nod: 1 Write-Off :cry:
but if I had a £30k car and had to spend out, say, £1000 to get my car replaced or rebuilt after wanging it around a track, then it would be a bargain!
but it isnt, rought guide
Daily trackday insurance = 1% car values
XS = 10% cars value.
£30K car, premium = £300, XS=£3000
MeLLoN Stu
19-12-2005, 14:31
makes sense to me :)
Richy_Boy
19-12-2005, 14:40
£30K car, premium = £300, XS=£3000
So, if you had a skyline R34GTR (for exmaple) stacked it on a race track and had to pay £3k to get it back (or replaced) you wouldn't see this as a 'good deal'?
I'm not saying it works for 200sx's, but it's a generic trackday insurace cover for all cars.
I'd rather pay £3k than buy another £30k Skyline... obviosly not if it was a tight 'crunch'
Rich
You accidently swipe £40K's worth of skyline.... lets say its a write off...
1 - he has insurance - he makes you pay the costs of said insurance..
2 - he doesnt have insurance - you liable for a new car possibly, or broken legs.
Guess the moral is if your cars worth more than a couple of grand, insure it...
I didnt know it didnt cover other peopee you hit though.. that would have been the only reason i would have bought it :eek: - if i smash my car its my own problem, someone elses is a diff matter :nod:
No. The Skyline driver knows that motorsport is risky, and he decides to take the risk. Whoever crashes into him is liable for nothing.
Its simply not an option for me not to have it. Might for OK for you guys with lower valued car.
However, here's a stark reminder why its a good idea...
http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/825/cnv000900100021su.jpg
Hit nothing and nothing went wrong with the car. About £5k worth of damage...
Its all to do with risk. The chances of you claiming off track day insurance are far, far, FAR greater than claiming for a house fire on you house insurance. Therefore, premium and excess are far higher.
Allegedly .. if you have an off at a bike track day, you can always find someone to carry your bike a few km up the road and dump it in a hedge, and you can claim off of your normal insurance.
I am not saying that this is a moral thing to do, especially with it raising premiums and all .... but has anyone heard of this happening at car track days ??? ..... or is it just too much of a logistics problem to try and move a bent car from a track to a bush somewhere
@Nicely: Oh that doesn't look good :(
The House Insurance thing was a bit silly, I'm just p1ssed off with the trackday premiums and what appears to be poor cover.
I can see that if you have a rare or expensive car then the insurance is a must.:nod:
@Nicely: Oh that doesn't look good :(
It wasnt.... nor did he have insurance - doh
(its all sorted out and back better than ever now though :cool: )
10 per 1000 covered is just too much money for me I had 22k's worth of skyline GTR at the time so I took the chance. started off with airfield days and went from there..
the trouble with it as far I as I could see is that you have to know how much money's worth of damage you are going to do before you do the day.
most off's dont result in a write off but some would..
the best thing to do is stay out of peoples way and drive within your limits, most trackdays are well organised so someone driving dangerously will be black flagged before they drive into you.. unless it is a genuine pile up which so far I have never seen on a trackday.
I don't use insurance now on the grounds that my S13 is worth feck all.
/Steve
I looked into trackday insurance briefly a while ago (there's lots of stuff on Pistonheads about it) and a lot of the companies wouldn't offer full car cover - they had exclusions for the various bits. An example I remember was excluding everything from the fire-wall forwards :(
Each driver basically covers their own risk, however they choose to do it, and as I understand it, the public liability insurance of the trackday organiser covers injuries to drivers or spectators.
@Nicely: what deals have you found? Can you get complete car cover/like-for-like replacement for £70?
FYI
There seems to be dialogue between trackday organisers and insurance companies. My numberplate and details were taken at Cadwell by the officials when I wrote mine off, insurance fraud is a SERIOUS offense and I would discourage anyone from doing what Johnny suggested. Wallers's insurance company knew his had been written off at Silverstone.
There seems to be dialogue between trackday organisers and insurance companies. My numberplate and details were taken at Cadwell by the officials when I wrote mine off, insurance fraud is a SERIOUS offense and I would discourage anyone from doing what Johnny suggested. Wallers's insurance company knew his had been written off at Silverstone.
I thought that being 'written off' was something an insurance company did? How was yours 'written off' if you didn't claim on any insurance, Kev?
Just a term used to indicate the amount of damage I sustained. IF an insurance company had looked at it it would have been an insurance write-off, as you say no insurance was used in my case.
@Nicely: what deals have you found? Can you get complete car cover/like-for-like replacement for £70?
http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=167141
I used that lot for an all day event at Combe. £123 and 10% excess. Someone at UJCC covered his £8k Skyline for £80.
That Skyline fire happened the same day. I was glad I took it out and didn't need to claim...
I'm surprised :) by the response to this thread. I just assumed everyone would use Trackday Insurance.
Hi all,
I've been lurking around here a while, currently driving a (far superior) fiat coupe 16vt but looking for a little 200 as a cute project car. I was looking at track day stuff for my lovely fiat and most agree with mr giblets in that track day insurance is a bit of a rip off.
But that doesn't mean you shouldnt get insurance. I know us fiat drivers are a little more responsible when it comes to high-speed driving so we're less likely to need to call upon the insurance so it's not such a big deal, but some of the chav'd up motors like the scooby + 200's would benefit greatly from decent insurance.
So please mr G, don't put your car on the track without insurance, there'll be plenty of other people avoiding your car so you've no danger of 3rd party accidents but if i was driving a 200 on a track i'd want to make sure that i'm insured incase it blew up on me.
:D :smash:
/pinch of salt
just to point out here that no-one seems to register the need for insurance to cover u for damage to other things......... ie armco's.
iv'e heard of damgaes over 15k for scraping a few of them.
i know a friend had to pay 3k for one on a motorway.
hic give trackday insurance as part of some of their policies, but i cant honestly say if its fully comp or not
I am about to look into this again... last time I checked it out a lot of the policies were worded so they could exclude/not pay out on any accident where the driver made a mistake, which seemed a little daft to me :rolleyes:
I know the Nurburgring will charge a driver for armco damage, but they're only charging something like £5 a lap.
A proper racing circuit for an organised event would consider barrier repair as part of their overheads I'd think.
Motorway armco is chargeable, but that would almost always be an insurance job.
MeLLoN Stu
19-12-2005, 19:53
Nurburgring is still a road hence they'll charge you the same as the councils here will.
no idea where tracks stand on such things though.
just to point out here that no-one seems to register the need for insurance to cover u for damage to other things......... ie armco's.
iv'e heard of damgaes over 15k for scraping a few of them.
i know a friend had to pay 3k for one on a motorway.
hic give trackday insurance as part of some of their policies, but i cant honestly say if its fully comp or not
I had that... iirc it was worded that it didnt cover your car or anyone elses!
I wouldnt bother with my s13 :no:
A friend of ours stoved his Honda S2000 at the ring a couple of years ago. Car was written off, and the bill for the armco alone came to something like £11,000 !!! :eek:
The whole thing has only just been settled... :rolleyes:
That's a warning to everyone. :wack:
Our 200SX is not insured for trackdays because even after a minor bump the insurance company would probably class it as "uneconomic to repair" or a "write-off" and thanks to changes in the law, you can't buy it back these days. :(
Thus, becuase most of the value is in parts fitted, we'd rather pay to repair it ourselves.
Precisely why we bought it in the first place. :nod:
Just becuase it's turned out to be the best car I've ever driven is another matter. :thumbs:
Ring is different than a trackday, AFAIK you dont/cant get charged for damage to a track on a UK trackday.
Ring is different than a trackday, AFAIK you dont/cant get charged for damage to a track on a UK trackday.
I believe that's being looked into by JP's Motorsport Vision group which owns Brands, Oulton, Snetterton, Cadwell and Bedford! :eek:
But my tale was purely for those consider going to the 'Ring. :(
Suppose one of us is involved in a coming together with another car at a trackday, with uncertain blame.
Where do either driver stand on being taken to court to recover the other's costs?
Where do either driver stand on being taken to court to recover the other's costs?
Neither driver stands anywhere. Motorsport is risky and you accept that risk when you go out.
If it happened, it would be a nightmare, but you takes your chances on any racetrack.
Richy_Boy
20-12-2005, 13:08
Just to add, HIC give this insurance for free and there is no premuim to pay for each trackday. However, it needs to be a properly organised event (i.e. not a bunch of sxoc members bashing around an airfield) :D
Rich
Suppose one of us is involved in a coming together with another car at a trackday, with uncertain blame.
Where do either driver stand on being taken to court to recover the other's costs?
As well as signing disclaimers along with the accepted fact that motorsport is dangerous I think the legal term is something like "violenti non fit injuria" or no injury can be done to a willing person....
Remembering this from law at college which I did a very very long time ago so may remember incorrectly :wack:
Suppose one of us is involved in a coming together with another car at a trackday, with uncertain blame.
Where do either driver stand on being taken to court to recover the other's costs?
They can sue you for damages if they can prove you were negligent, so say your wheel fell off through Becketts at Silverstone, you spin and take somebodies GT3/McLaren F1 out ... if it turns out you had forgotten to tighten your wheel-nuts then you could find a law-suit against you :eek:
However if you lose it through Becketts and take the same guy out he has no comeback. you could even argue he was negligent not giving you enough room.
If you tried outbraking somebody (banned on a trackday) and sideswiped them, that would be negligence, another reason to listen and follow the briefing, even if the guy infront/behind isnt.
Remember also your more likely to be sued by a guy in a 100K supercar than a £500 nail, as he is probably a lawyer or a judge :indiff:
Just to add, HIC give this insurance for free and there is no premuim to pay for each trackday. However, it needs to be a properly organised event (i.e. not a bunch of sxoc members bashing around an airfield) :D
Rich
They just quoted me £1800 :eek:
Compare to A plan £570. 15 years no claims, no accidents, no convictions.
Richy_Boy
20-12-2005, 14:57
:eek: somethings broken there! I just renewed at £540 something with breakdown cover etc on top... 28, 6yr NCB 6 points.. all mods declared.
Although, excuse the off-topic rant but having an LPG conversion has UPPED my excess £250!! :mad:
:eek: somethings broken there! I just renewed at £540 something with breakdown cover etc on top... 28, 6yr NCB 6 points.. all mods declared.
Although, excuse the off-topic rant but having an LPG conversion has UPPED my excess £250!! :mad:
Insurance companies really are c*nts arent they ;) I'm 5 years older, 15 year claim free history, no points, a very cheap profession to insure living in a pretty nice area and they want to charge an extra £1200. To all intents and purposes I really am the opposite to the devil incarnate claim wise :D I can imagine them turning round one day in the future and saying "Well Mr A, although you havent had a claim for 40 years, and have paid through the arse for insurance your entire life, we feel you may possibly feasibly be due a claim at some point so we are putting your insurance up :wack:
They really do make me laugh :D
FYI
There seems to be dialogue between trackday organisers and insurance companies. My numberplate and details were taken at Cadwell by the officials when I wrote mine off, insurance fraud is a SERIOUS offense and I would discourage anyone from doing what Johnny suggested. Wallers's insurance company knew his had been written off at Silverstone.
sorry to drag this out of the dim distant past but do you know I.e have written proof that this is the case ?
I am having problems getting sensible quotes for my car and it is on the basis that a lot of people who bend their cars on track drag them up the road and claim they had an accident on her majesty's highway.
if this is the case (reporting numberplates of damaged cars) then they don't have that argument anymore and I could blag nice cheap insurance for my track car.. 3000 miles a year for something like 200 quid sounds good to me :nod: rather than 500-900 quid a year... if they'll cover you at all.
cheers
Steve
Ask Wallers ;) When he phone his insurance company to swap to another car they knew he had bent his old one on the track. My car numberplate was definatly taken down at Cadwell park :nod:
Just buy a 205 gti for track use and don't bother about insurance :D
More importantly, when you arrive at Oulton Park for example, could you not just remove, or rather tape over your number plate as some drivers did last Saturday, so unless you are forced to give the number plate to the trackday company they will not be able to pass it onto anyone else ?
They will still have your name/address and car type.
Personally I wouldnt (and didnt) consider insurance fraud as an option when I crashed my car on a trackday.
Ask Wallers ;) When he phone his insurance company to swap to another car they knew he had bent his old one on the track. My car numberplate was definatly taken down at Cadwell park :nod:
They certainly did, although they didn't seem that bothered as I didn't actually commit a crime. I mentioned it in the members area and there were some piccies on the Fiat Coupe owners club.
ok guys cheers for that. I'll mention it to the next company I try to get fleeced from:nod:
as for the 205 GTI, same problems would apply once you put in a cage and decent seats/harnesses, this is what's causing problems, no the state of tune.
/Steve
SM - I wasn't suggesting covering up the number plates for any fraudulent reasons, just simply why should your insurance company need to know if the car has been on track if you aren't covered or are making a claim ?
SteveC- It's only the half cage that's a pain to transfer over though in the event of a crash. Seats, harnesses etc can be done yourself to another 205 etc.
I don't get the whole 205 thing, I have spent the best part of 12k on getting my car set up so it is devastatingly quick round corners. why the hell would I want a 205 GTI I had one of them 7 years ago and although quite quick and light it wasn't a patch on the 200 round brands indy circuit. in fact my 400bhp skyline GTR wasn't a patch on my S13 round brands hatch indy. my car is not a road car in true terms, it is used on road to go to SXOC meets and track days, plus the odd bit of running in driving.
and everything I have on the car could be swapped across to a new S13 should I have to. 205 is of no relavance :confused:
/Steve
Steve, the 205 comment was light hearted, hence the big grin after it. It is horses for course though, and I was merely suggesting that shoud anyone be in the same boat as me of having very little track experience and not be wanting to risk an expensive 200 on track, then back to the original question of not wanting insurance you probably wouldn't need to bother with a 205.
Further in time, I may well be on a different course and need a different horse, so then it does lead to more of a dilemma !!
Aye:D
not against 205's I've had 2 of em but the 200 is still a cheapy cheap car at the end of the day.
Mods cost pretty much the same but the base car price is what attracted me to it I was doing uninsured trackdays in my skyline and that was worth over 20k at the time... some years ago now:cry:
I still don't bother with insurance on trackdays, but I needed some facts before I start getting quotes, as the main reason for being declined insurance onmy caqr was the seats/harnesses/cage, as so many people are claiming they pranged their car while driving to /from the day but really taking out an armco barrier.
good luck with the pug, it's got a better racing heratige than the S13:nod:
/Steve
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