S13 stage 3 chip

[Jez]

As the T28 hybrid turbo required for S13 stage 3 cars is a bit long in the tooth, I wondered if people would be interested in a stage 3 chip (using Z32 AFM and 444cc injectors) for a different turbo.

The chip would be for a standard CA engine with the following mods:
Free flow air filter
Free flow exhaust
Uprated fuel pump
Standard fuel pressure regulator
FMIC
Z32 AFM
444cc injectors
Bigger turbo

Please vote in the poll or post here :)

[stoofer]

I think everyone would agree that more choice is a good thing :)

[Mikesx13]

Where's the poll?

Edit: It's just appeared.

[SM]

I voted ..
GT28RS with 0.64 A/R housing

....you say "limited peak power" but surely the injectors (444) wouldnt cope with much more than ~340bhp anyway?

And why not just make it "stage 4" looks better on your site then ;) even though you would still have a copy of the map if anybody wanted one for the old turbo anyway.

[Jez]

....you say "limited peak power" but surely the injectors (444) wouldnt cope with much more than ~340bhp anyway?

And why not just make it "stage 4" looks better on your site then ;) even though you would still have a copy of the map if anybody wanted one for the old turbo anyway.

I'm not sure of anyone whos got the 0.64 housing so I'm not sure of how it will perform.

Good point about the stage 4 thing - prob will call it that :)

[Steve@EMS]

T3 for something diferent:D

[FooFenix]

I'd say the GT28R is too "similar" to the T28 (in terms of airflow) to justify a new chip.

I guess mapping for the smaller GT28RS and calling it Stage 4 would be nice. Problem is, if the full potencial of the RS is to be used maybe the stock CA will be too near it's limit... :confused:

[hriggs]

Doh! sorry just voted for T3 before realising it was S13:o

[SteveB]

i'd be interested in one for 444's, z32 and a gtir t28 :D

steve

[SM]

Problem is, if the full potencial of the RS is to be used maybe the stock CA will be too near it's limit... :confused:
I'd say that too, however that up to the owner to fit forgeis and MHG if they desire. Although maybe a 1.6mm MHG should be specified, would allow more advance too.

[Chris B]

I would guess the most popular selling turbo recently is the GT2860RS with 0.82 housing, don't know why so many have voted for the smaller one, probably because they are sticking with the standard engine or do more people buy the smaller version??? :confused:

In my opinion it's between the GT28R and the two variants of the GT28RS :nod:

Ignore this bit:
I'm personally going to go for a Roller Bearing turbo for the quick spool advantages and my target is 350bhp, I won't use any more than 350bhp and I certainly don't want any less :no: even if that means running a GT2871R on a lower boost setting.
If you genuinely think the bigger GT2860RS can give 350bhp on my sort of spec then I will happily go down that route and offer to be a guinea pig :D
Matty2Fatty is probably going down a very similar route to me right now, sure there most be a few people who now have a CA Stage 1 rebuilt engine and are looking to extract it's full potential?

I'm on a lower compression Stage 1 APT engine so possibly I'm a minority in that sense and I can just pop down the M4 for a mapping session (which I'm planning to do anyway), I'll vote when I'm more confident about which roller bearing turbo I want... I probably won't be upgrading until next November anwyway :wack:


Maybe there is a market for more than just one new chip, one stage 3 replacement and one for stage 4 (suited to low comp rebuilt engine?) perhaps :D

Edit: Just realised you had mentioned it would be for a standard engine, my bad :o
I'll abstain from voting because I won't be a customer with a standard engine...

[Jez]

i'd be interested in one for 444's, z32 and a gtir t28 :D

The current stage 3 works well with that turbo - its similar to the T28 hybrid :)

[Jez]

I think with the stage 4 chip I'd spec a tubular manifold too.

I reckon the std engine will be able to take advantage of a GT28RS with the 0.64 housing.

I think the GT28R is too similar to the S14 T28 really. My stage 2 chip works pretty well with this turbo.

Everyone reckons the RS with the 0.82 housing is good for 350bhp - has anyone actually done that?

[RohanC]

Mitsi 16g

http://www.sxoc.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?t=185236&highlight=split

And a way to fit it... if we could find a tubular mani to go with it all the better!

Edit... actuatly, arnt they about the same size as a 28r, scrap that thought :wack: How about a bigger Mitsi tubby.

Probably wont have much scope for sales though! t3 would be a good plan IMO, due to the 2nd hand market of them, not everyone can afford a £700 GT28RS.

[Chris B]

I think with the stage 4 chip I'd spec a tubular manifold too.

Everyone reckons the RS with the 0.82 housing is good for 350bhp - has anyone actually done that?
Sensible :nod: I'll be getting a manifold with a roller bearing turbo, probably a bigger turbo elbow also, got other parts planned too ;) :D
Bren is currently developing the manifold and elbow, your inlet manifold looks interesting too... not necessary, but every little helps, bit of port matching and aluminium pulleys :)

Not sure about the GT28RS, none that I know of though :( I'l be looking into it very soon though...

[danworth]

i have a GT2860RS sitting here, its 0.86 A/R

I say make a stage where the engine needs uprated parts. ie stg4, but stg3 should be or have the option for the GTiR turbo as it seems to be the favourite lately, and they are laggy on the stg3 chip, is it likely to be the map?

[SteveB]

ive wondered this too danworth, but i may just put the injectors and afm on then have jez do me a custom chip for my engine. im on a rebuilt engine but with a thicker MHG so the compression is lower.

[Jez]

All my chips are going to be for a standard engine. If people change pistons, CR, cams etc you really do need a custom map.

[Martin T]

I think the GT28RS with the 0.82 housing as it shouldn't be too laggy for the CA, tubular manifold etc and go for around 320-330 BHP with not a huge amount of boost to minimise stresses on the standard engine. Just speculation but with that kind of spec, I would expect it to only need around 17-18 PSI for that and it would have the added bonus of being able to hold that boost to the redline making for a strong torque curve that doesn't trail off badly as the revs go higher :)
Plus if people are scared of killing their engine they can always fit a 1.2mm MHG and wiseco forged pistons at the standard CR.

[FooFenix]

All my chips are going to be for a standard engine. If people change pistons, CR, cams etc you really do need a custom map.

I agree, but... if your stage 4 chip would take advantage of a GT28RS (even the smaller one) to get the CA to 330hp, wouldn't it be VERY advisable to run some higher lifting cams? At least the intake one?


I think with the stage 4 chip I'd spec a tubular manifold too.

I reckon the std engine will be able to take advantage of a GT28RS with the 0.64 housing.


Maybe the Stage 3 is maximizing the CA's potential as it is... and so, maybe you just need to supply a new (similar) spec because ND's T28 Hybrid is hard to get by! And on the manifold... I'd say so too :nod:

[Chris B]

I agree, but... if your stage 4 chip would take advantage of a GT28RS (even the smaller one) to get the CA to 330hp, wouldn't it be VERY advisable to run some higher lifting cams? At least the intake one?
[quote]
Not necessarily, more than anything it moves the power band up the rev range, which you don't really need until you have massive power!

[quote=FooFenix]
Maybe the Stage 3 is maximizing the CA's potential as it is... and so, maybe you just need to supply a new (similar) spec because ND's T28 Hybrid is hard to get by!
It's not hard to get :confused: try Norris Designs or Turbo Dynamics :thumbs:

Stage 4 may be beyond the standard lump's safe running?

[FooFenix]

It's not hard to get :confused: try Norris Designs or Turbo Dynamics :thumbs:


That's easy to say when you can afford new turbos or you're in the UK to look around for used ones... :rolleyes:


Stage 4 may be beyond the standard lump's safe running?

I'd say so, if the GT28RS is to be used above say 1-1.2 bar...

[Jez]

I was really just thinking of creating a chip with a similar level of power as stg 3 but with a more available turbo. So it'll be around the 320bhp mark with probably a GT28RS with 0.63 A/R housing.

Any volunteers with that type of setup?

I guess I could do a revised stage 2 chip for the GT28R

[SM]

Any volunteers with that type of setup?
My bank manager would kill me :wack: and my 13 still has issues.

Hope you find somebody so that when I'm ready for something like that in a year it will be sorted :D

[FooFenix]

I was really just thinking of creating a chip with a similar level of power as stg 3 but with a more available turbo. So it'll be around the 320bhp mark with probably a GT28RS with 0.63 A/R housing.

That sounds nice... if I ever get to buy an RS... :)


I guess I could do a revised stage 2 chip for the GT28R

Yes you could, but I reckon that's what Bren sells as "Apex Stage 2". And wasn't it mapped by you...?

[Jez]

Yes you could, but I reckon that's what Bren sells as "Apex Stage 2".

Thats for an S14 T28

[FooFenix]

No it ain't, at least that's what Bren told me when I got it :confused:


The chip was mapped to run with an Apex Performance S13 front mounted intercooler and T28 ball bearing turbo and these items will give the best results but the map is flexable enough to allow other turbos and intercoolers to be used such as the S14 T28 or the Saab front mounted intercooler

GT28R, Apex FMIC, and stock injectors. Of course one can use it with an S14 T28 and Saab FMIC (I do!) but that's not supposed to be the "ideal" setup...

[Jez]

It'll be ok with a GT28R :)

[Chris B]

I was really just thinking of creating a chip with a similar level of power as stg 3 but with a more available turbo. So it'll be around the 320bhp mark with probably a GT28RS with 0.63 A/R housing.

I guess I could do a revised stage 2 chip for the GT28R
Simple yet brilliant ideas :thumbs:
Although I think soooo many people just buy cheap second hand T28s for stage 2 I don't think many would go for it :confused: IMO if you buy a new turbo it's got to be stage 3, it's worth spending the extra £200 on injectors and Z32 AFM :nod: although the GT28R is quite cheap... I guess the voting will answer the question, or at least I hope it will :thumbs:

[SX Drifting]

Any volunteers with that type of setup?

Surching for a turbo now. Ok My spec will be a little more but not a lot.
I have one of your current stage 3 chips but I would'nt mind a remap at some point.

I'm just down the road from you aswell. Let me know what you think?

[Jez]

Let me know what you think?

Let me know the full spec of your car (via email) and we might be able to sort something out :)

[RohanC]

Not much interest in the t3, i thought we liked improving these cars cheaply...

[SX Drifting]

Not much interest in the t3, i thought we liked improving these cars cheaply...

I think the T3 would have massive lag though? the GT28RS looks like the better option but which one? I'm leaning towards the smaller of the 2. If it can hold 320-330 BHP which I think it can it will be more than enouth as I don't think the STD CA will hold any more. Why have a larger turbo than you can use, it will just have more lag and slow you down IMO

Although which one is the easyest to get hold of?

[SX Drifting]

Email sent. Couple of things I forgot to mention.
The engine has been rebuilt and has just finished running so should be a good solid basis.
All the parts are new(exept injectors and maf)
And I have a SSQV BOV

You might remember me from Trax. Mine was the shiny red one right next to you

[gijsje]

I am building the stage 3 setup at the moment on my car.
But i still have the standard S14 T28 turbo to start my project with(It was cheap to buy second hand).
I'm thinking of already getting a new turbo to put in it instead of the standard T28.
Will there be any problem if i already buy the GT28RS and run it with the current Stage 3 chip?
Or should i wait until the new chip is developed and put in a new turbo then?

[SX Drifting]

I've asked Apex about turbo's and they stock the .86 GT28RS.
That will mean this will probally be the easyest turbo to get hold of so could be the best option?

[jrtuning]

i would volunteer my car, im in the middle of rebuilding the engine at the moment.

it will have

weisco pistons
1.6mm metal hg
gt28rs .64 ar/housing
apex fmic
full 3" exhaust
tubular mani
444cc injectors
z32
walbro
air filter
apexi avcr
and other bits and bobs that dont affect the power

[Jez]

I'm after a car with a standard engine - sorry :)

[jrtuning]

not a problem i may be getting in touch with you with regards to getting the ecu mapped after the engine is finished and run in.

[Jez]

cool - just let me know when you're ready :)