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Jez
03-12-2005, 16:27
Managed 483bhp (at the wheels apparently!!) today at the rolling road at Janspeed, Salisbury. Very pleased indeed!!
And I'm still using the standard CA ECU :)

http://bagpuss.swan.ac.uk/horsham-developments/images/483bhp small.jpg

The gap in the graph is where the rev pickup on the coil pack misread.

SM
03-12-2005, 16:31
Looks Great :D
Lovely Torque curve.

Get that new frontpipe and get to Thor, that should give you a 500@hubs figure :D

bren
03-12-2005, 16:33
Awesome :notworthy

Im up for a meet at Thor in the near future if you fancy it. :nod:

Chris
03-12-2005, 16:34
:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy gold star for you m8

voodoo_melon
03-12-2005, 16:34
What revlimit are you using? The power curve is still going up when they stopped...

Still :notworthy though :)

Jez
03-12-2005, 16:35
Im up for a meet at Thor in the near future if you fancy it. :nod:

Yup - I'm up for that :)
Managed to break my AEM CDI ignition system and the inlet manifold has cracked again (on the way back from the rollers) :( But I don't care I'm on holiday in a bit :D

Jez
03-12-2005, 16:36
What revlimit are you using? The power curve is still going up when they stopped...

Yeah, I know - scared of bending the crank. That was taken to 7200rpm

200sxer
03-12-2005, 16:36
Wow that's impressive...:thumbs:

unfortunately makes my result look even more weedy:cry: :wack:

Parker
03-12-2005, 16:52
This is why you had to rush off home :D

Was good to see that earlier :nod:

panjy
03-12-2005, 16:53
If i leave mine with you for an afternoon can u make it do that:D Very impressive:thumbs:

Colwell
03-12-2005, 16:54
Bloody hell Jez :clap: :clap:

bren
03-12-2005, 16:56
Yup - I'm up for that :)
Managed to break my AEM CDI ignition system and the inlet manifold has cracked again (on the way back from the rollers) :( But I don't care I'm on holiday in a bit :D

We will have the new throttle body on Monday so our S13 should be done for when you get back. We can sort it for soon after if you fancy it :)

Just had a thought, you now own the most powerful proven S13 that I know after Tones bad luck :( :)

andyfield
03-12-2005, 17:00
Very nice fella, top power :nod: How powerful is buffy's S13 ?

SM
03-12-2005, 17:15
~430 Iirc

Jezz_S13
03-12-2005, 17:18
Nice work Horsham. :thumbs:

stumitch
03-12-2005, 17:22
Well done Jez, a fine figure indeed :D

clarity
03-12-2005, 17:35
Well done Jez :notworthy

Jez
03-12-2005, 18:04
Thanks guys :)

Heres a vid: Clicky - 1Mb (http://bagpuss.swan.ac.uk/horsham-developments/video/483bhp.wmv)

Jezz_S13
03-12-2005, 18:07
not found, looks like you missed the extension off.

Jez
03-12-2005, 18:07
fixed :)

unipsycho
03-12-2005, 18:13
Nice :thumbs:

Jez
03-12-2005, 18:19
Yeah, thats right "only" 230bhp at 4500rpm :)

bren
03-12-2005, 18:22
What did they say when they saw the figures? Were they suprised?

Jez
03-12-2005, 18:23
What did they say when they saw the figures? Were they suprised?

Yes :)
I think its the most powerful car they've had there so far (someone will correct me if I'm wrong)

Jez
03-12-2005, 18:25
cool, yeah didn't mean that bad or anything god knows that thing is a spaceship ;)

LOL - didn't mean to sound nasty in my last post :)


what do you think the fly figure is jez over 500 now :)

Yeah, probably. And this was just on Tesco fuel.

Parker
03-12-2005, 18:30
And this was just on Tesco fuel.

Every little helps :thumbs:

Jez
03-12-2005, 18:36
Every little helps :thumbs:

:D - LOL

TomM
03-12-2005, 19:19
Very impressive :)

How about an 8k rev limit and a tank of race fuel? ;) :D

PsYcHeS
03-12-2005, 19:28
Very well done mate, how far, in real terms do you think u'd like to take her too?

PhatBob
03-12-2005, 19:29
Well done mate, you must be well chuffed.

Are you still using the GT30 turbo?

Rob

Jez
03-12-2005, 19:30
Very well done mate, how far, in real terms do you think u'd like to take her too?

1rpm under the point at which it goes bang! ;)

Jez
03-12-2005, 19:30
Are you still using the GT30 turbo?

Yup - no sign of it running out of puff either.

GPS_S13
03-12-2005, 19:33
very impressive jez!! top work

BreadBin
03-12-2005, 19:43
Every little helps :thumbs:
LMAO :notworthy
Nice result Jez :thumbs:

Nicely
03-12-2005, 19:47
:notworthy

ReTeP
03-12-2005, 20:00
Thats one tower of power!

Jez
03-12-2005, 20:02
Thats one tower of power!
Thats what all the girls say ;) :D

JuZ
03-12-2005, 20:06
Nice one Jez :notworthy
I recon you could map cars for a living if you put your mind to it :wack:

ReTeP
03-12-2005, 20:06
Hahahahaha

Car slags :rolleyes:

cossykiller
03-12-2005, 20:07
oh yes girls are very much into cars nowdays:D

well done with them figures:thumbs:

Bubble
03-12-2005, 20:14
Very impressive figures Jez:thumbs:

arry
03-12-2005, 20:20
top job mate, and to think you did it all by yourself :D

RohanC
03-12-2005, 20:31
PMSL @ Tom :D

As i have said a milion times already.. well done!!

Hallsy67
03-12-2005, 20:55
Yes :)
I think its the most powerful car they've had there so far (someone will correct me if I'm wrong)
yup it is true yours tops the list, was good to see :thumbs:

giblets
04-12-2005, 00:23
Awesome result Jez :thumbs:

pdh 14a
04-12-2005, 08:15
Well done jez! awesome figures :notworthy

Jez
04-12-2005, 09:46
Cheers guys - thanks for all the praise :)
Remember: this was all done using a std remapped CA ECU :)

I'm off on holiday now - but I'll still be about, we got free wireless internet in the hotel! Yay!

arry
04-12-2005, 10:42
have a goodun mate :thumbs:

archenemy.co.uk
04-12-2005, 16:42
I'm off on holiday now - but I'll still be about, we got free wireless internet in the hotel! Yay!

Excellent result

and now I'm off round to your house to steal a 500bhp S13 :D

MarkH
04-12-2005, 17:04
Top Banana :D

Parker
04-12-2005, 18:33
Now all you need to do is get it to idle ;)

binnsey
04-12-2005, 18:36
Nice one mate :thumbs:

alanjuggler
04-12-2005, 18:38
not gonna happen :D

same with my car, 950cc injectors dont really have a lovely stable idle :)


good result jez, i have faith in you to finish mapping mine and hopefully might hit about 100bhp below that at the fly :)


got your initial remap too today, have a good holiday :)

stevec
05-12-2005, 11:14
Nice one Jez,

just one question, how does 500 odd bhp affect laptimes ?

do you have any before and after mods times from your sprints ?

Cheers
Steve

ian_t
05-12-2005, 12:44
Yes :)
I think its the most powerful car they've had there so far (someone will correct me if I'm wrong)

Aye tis true, and they have tested porsche turbos and the likes. In the morning I took second spot on their rolling road chart 5bhp below a 360rwhp supra, that was until Jezz, Papa and pointblank came along lol.

They did not believe me when i said my engine only had a head gasket and cams, but they liked the glowing manifold and lack of reverse gear.

Jez
05-12-2005, 14:57
Now all you need to do is get it to idle ;)
Yeah - does need a bit of work - its not normally that bad, think it might have been the beginnings of the inlet manifold cracking again - its now got a huge crank in it... :indiff:

MarkH
05-12-2005, 17:16
Just wondering Jez, at what point does the stock ecu become restrictive?

Parker
05-12-2005, 19:41
Yeah - does need a bit of work - its not normally that bad, think it might have been the beginnings of the inlet manifold cracking again - its now got a huge crank in it... :indiff:

Considering the power it's running, I think a lumpy idle is hardly a problem. They do sound :smitten: Anyway, aren't you supposed to be on holiday? :whip:

Jez
06-12-2005, 01:20
Just wondering Jez, at what point does the stock ecu become restrictive?

Not really sure - at the moment its running a Z32 AFM and 950cc injectors. The main limit is the Z32 AFM - only :wack: good for ~500-550bhp. I'd have to mess about with a dual AFM setup if I wanted to higher - I could get it to work I think.

Jez
06-12-2005, 01:21
Anyway, aren't you supposed to be on holiday? :whip:

I am - free wireless internet in the hotel room :)

Actual_Ben_Taylor
06-12-2005, 01:22
Sweet figures, so what voltage did the AFM hit on that run?

Butuz
06-12-2005, 01:23
Wow - tiz a beast!!!! Rock on horsham :nod:

Butuz

Jez
06-12-2005, 01:26
Sweet figures, so what voltage did the AFM hit on that run?

Not sure - I've not logged it for a while. Its not maxed out though.

Actual_Ben_Taylor
06-12-2005, 01:29
Not sure - I've not logged it for a while. Its not maxed out though.

Would love to see one maxed out one day :) You must be getting close now!!

Jez
06-12-2005, 01:32
Yeah - I'll log it when I get my CDI repaired/replaced and I've got my inlet manifold fixed. It'll be interesting to see what I get :)

MeLLoN Stu
06-12-2005, 02:08
bloody impressive stuff Jez! :notworthy
keep it up!

kev1nc
06-12-2005, 02:39
Bloody hell:eek: well done Jez:notworthy

SM
06-12-2005, 07:13
Not really sure - at the moment its running a Z32 AFM and 950cc injectors. The main limit is the Z32 AFM - only :wack: good for ~500-550bhp. I'd have to mess about with a dual AFM setup if I wanted to higher - I could get it to work I think.
Isnt there a Q45 or something AFM thats bigger?

And did I imagine you saying at somepoint that you might try and run the CA off a SR ECU as it offers twice the size fuelling points to play with ? 16*16 instead of 8*8 ?

Adamo_sx
06-12-2005, 09:30
...d run the CA off a SR ECU as it offers twice the size fuelling points to play with ? 16*16 instead of 8*8 ?

As far as I know the CA ECU has the same resolution as the SR. I think the SR only has the advantage of offering the consult port which is very nice if you want to monitor or log sensor data.

btw, nice numbers Jez :thumbs:

Adamo

PhatBob
06-12-2005, 10:04
Isnt there a Q45 or something AFM thats bigger?

And did I imagine you saying at somepoint that you might try and run the CA off a SR ECU as it offers twice the size fuelling points to play with ? 16*16 instead of 8*8 ?

Q45 MAFs are larger but max out with less airflow. They're good for about 450bhp IIRC.

Time to go standalone with speed/density and wideband feedback :D

Rob

Pete C
06-12-2005, 10:12
Remember: this was all done using a std remapped CA ECU :)

If that didn't need a :Plug: after it, then I don't know what does :D

Excellent work Jez, pleased as punch for you :thumbs:

Damo
06-12-2005, 10:22
well done jez well done

MarkH
06-12-2005, 11:16
Not really sure - at the moment its running a Z32 AFM and 950cc injectors. The main limit is the Z32 AFM - only :wack: good for ~500-550bhp. I'd have to mess about with a dual AFM setup if I wanted to higher - I could get it to work I think.


If you want to know how we get around the z32 afm limits give us a shout?

AndyStuttgart
06-12-2005, 17:52
Well done Jez, my congratulations!
Are you using a GT30R to hit that numbers? I´m stil considering what I should buy now to bring my project to an end...

Cheers,
Andy

Si
06-12-2005, 18:01
Fantastic :notworthy: nice one.
If you guys go to Thor you better let me know as it's only just up the road from my pad, and i'd love to sit in on the rr session! :Plug: :D

Jez
07-12-2005, 02:25
Cheers guys :)

MarkH, I'll drop you an email - it'll be interesting to hear what you do.

I expect the Thor RR day will be well publicised - whos going to win? Bren or me? Place your bets ;)

bren
07-12-2005, 11:29
I think it will be pretty close. We now have the larger 3076, nitrous and the larger throttle body along with some sexy additions to the management hardware and revisions to the mapping. Looky at the size of my new throttle body! :eek:

http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=25401&stc=1&d=1133951291

The sequential box isnt being fitted though, we would have to send it back to Quaife to have the S13 bell housing shimmed up and then back again to get it reshimmed for the S14 :(

giblets
07-12-2005, 11:40
Crikey, you'll be hoovering up small children and stray dogs as you drive past with the size of that intake :D

bren
07-12-2005, 11:46
Hopefully we wont have to run such high boost with the larger apeture :)

SM
07-12-2005, 11:49
RR day will be well publicised - whos going to win? Bren or me? Place your bets ;)
Tough one, if Bren hadnt ditched the inlet manifold I would have said Bren, but that seems to have enabled quite a jump for you. If you can keep it from falling apart and run with it then its going to be close :nod:
And you'll both make Buffy's monster machine look under powered, despite being a daft car. Will be nice if at least one of the SR big BHP turns up too.
Enigma !!! Where are you and your mid-12 1/4 car ?? :smash:

Jez
08-12-2005, 03:14
I think it will be pretty close. We now have the larger 3076, nitrous and the larger throttle body along with some sexy additions to the management hardware and revisions to the mapping

Nitrous is cheating :indiff:

I think it'll be close too (without the nitrous)

bren
08-12-2005, 10:49
Sounds like youre running scared ;)

If nitrous is cheating then so is using WI. Its one means to increase power or performance as is WI. Turn your WI off and Ill turn off the nitrous, deal?

SM
08-12-2005, 10:50
Wibble :D

bren
08-12-2005, 10:56
I want to see if Jez aggress that if nitrous is cheating then WI is cheating and if he will wstich WI off if I turn nitrous off :nod:

Phil LS
08-12-2005, 11:09
Ahhh not quite the same though bren, you can't add WI to a vauxhall nova and make an extra 100bhp. Whereas with enough nitrous you can :)

Nice result btw jez. just shows what standard management is capable of :) it may have made more if the manifold was on it's way out.

bren
08-12-2005, 11:29
Its injecting a liquid as a means to run more power. :nod:

Phil LS
08-12-2005, 11:51
In that respect you could say the same about petrol.

It is just the fact that a 1.0 litre nova can be made to double it's output without too much trouble. whereas with WI a lot of 'tuning' would be needed to the engine first to equal the same increase in power :thumbs:

bren
08-12-2005, 12:09
Ok then, Ill forget the nitrous but will run race fuel :)

Thats similar to WI injection in that just running race fuel wont be of any power benefit, it simply allows you to tune the car to a more advanced state, just like WI does.

But no, race fuel is 'cheating'. Therefore WI is 'cheating'.

So lets none of us cheat, Ill turn the nitrous off, no one runs race fuel and all WI systems are turned off ;)

ian_t
08-12-2005, 12:13
Stop fighting guys, power is as power does.

SM
08-12-2005, 12:14
I think whatever you run on the track, in normal use, is allowed.
WI, Nitrous. Dont think anybody runs race fuel on the track @ ~5mpg !!!

bren
08-12-2005, 12:14
He started it :p

stevec
08-12-2005, 12:40
don't become dyno slags sort it on the track :nod:

/Steve

bren
08-12-2005, 12:43
Like your sig, looks cool :nod:

30PSI
08-12-2005, 12:58
I've got WI (not fitted it yet), but intend to use it purely as a cautionary matter against detting...

But from what you're saying Bren what power gains can I expect it to give me?

SM
08-12-2005, 13:06
Sure Bren and Jez will be at a few tracks again next year, Bren has bigger brakes so that could be to his benefit.

WI - allows for timing advance, lower EGT's, and if on big boost allows less overfuelling if you had to overfuel for extra cooling / to lower EGT's

30PSI
08-12-2005, 13:10
So in essence it doesn't do anything unless you adjust timing or mapping for it, much in the same way as using a higher octane fuel?

bren
08-12-2005, 13:10
I probably wont have bigger brakes for long :no:

bren
08-12-2005, 13:15
Youll lose power if you just fit WI, you need to make use of the water by advancing the ignition timing and/or raising boost to get the gains. You can also run a leaner mixture.

30PSI
08-12-2005, 13:22
How lean a ratio are we talking here? What would a typical gain be? Bit of a non specific question seeing that one car is completely different to another...

Phil LS
08-12-2005, 13:52
Ok then, Ill forget the nitrous but will run race fuel :)

Thats similar to WI injection in that just running race fuel wont be of any power benefit, it simply allows you to tune the car to a more advanced state, just like WI does.

But no, race fuel is 'cheating'. Therefore WI is 'cheating'.

So lets none of us cheat, Ill turn the nitrous off, no one runs race fuel and all WI systems are turned off ;)

Aye race fuel and WI have the same effect of allowing more advance etc. But any rude boy can stick a 50bhp shot of nitrous on their shitbox and make it go quicker. But it's a different kettle of fish to put race fuel in the car and tune it to take full advantage of it :) That's the only thing in tuning that I think is 'cheating' for that reason :)


He started it :p

No he started it...... lol :wack:

Everyone loves a bit of healthy competition :D

SM
08-12-2005, 13:56
How lean a ratio are we talking here? What would a typical gain be? Bit of a non specific question seeing that one car is completely different to another...
Jez posted some details, have a search for his WI thread.
From memory he was about 10.5:1 at high revs, with 950oC EGT's before WI.
Then almost at 12.0:1 at high revs with the same EGT after, and more advanced timing.

Pretty sure full details are in Jez's thread, mine from memory may be wrong :wack:

30PSI
08-12-2005, 14:01
OK...Coz at the moment i'm around 12.5:1 at 17psi and therefore have dropped down to 15psi.

I might just wack it in and see what happens.

The car will be running standalone soon, so proper mapping will happen early next year, and i'll prob get them to run a different map for use with the WI...

Anyway end of the slight thread hijack...Well done Jez I'm jealous...

bren
08-12-2005, 14:17
Aye race fuel and WI have the same effect of allowing more advance etc. But any rude boy can stick a 50bhp shot of nitrous on their shitbox and make it go quicker. But it's a different kettle of fish to put race fuel in the car and tune it to take full advantage of it :) That's the only thing in tuning that I think is 'cheating' for that reason :)



No he started it...... lol :wack:

Everyone loves a bit of healthy competition :D

We arent talking shitbox cars here though, we are talking cars already putting out nearly 3 times their original output. Running nitrous safely on a car in such a state of tune isnt the same as "any rude boy can stick a 50bhp shot of nitrous on their shitbox and make it go quicker" :no:

sroberts
08-12-2005, 14:27
any rude boy can stick a 50bhp shot of nitrous on their shitbox

and make them think they do a 9 second quarter :D just like the fast and the shitty :D

Engmia has a toggle switch via the motec that (I think) dials in a extra 12 degrees of ignition when the car is running on race fuel. Reckons it makes around 50bhp difference.

Oh and stonking results Jez :thumbs:

Si :)

Chris B
08-12-2005, 14:46
To put this in perspective....

I was on the same Dyno day and got 237 at the wheels, might be able to improve upon that a little with a custom map but Jez managed to get twice the power I'm running, I'm using a T28 Hybrid :)

Then again I had loads more torque at 4000rpm :D

Jez
08-12-2005, 16:36
You will beat me if you run nitrous - you can just fit bigger jets and get more power. WI doesn't add more power (water doesn't burn), just helps prevent det.

I guess we could both run race fuel, if you're paying. ;)

Race fuel has a higher calorific value and is more det resistant. Just bloody expensive...

bren
08-12-2005, 16:38
Ill beat you anyway :p

The nitrous is being used for anti lag only, it switches off early on, just wanted to scare you ;)

We ran similar power to Mike Rainbirds Cossy and that ran 510bhp on Harvey Gibbs dyno. We had a front pipe to turbo elbow leak and it was 23+ degrees ambient temps :nod:

We have since fitted a larger turbo, larger throttle body, taken out the plenum, fitted a higher flowing fuel pump, added some sophistication to the management and its all getting remapped :nod:

Thats the royal we of course, we being Gary :)

Jez
08-12-2005, 16:39
LOL :)
So you're happy on pump fuel and no NOS then?

bren
08-12-2005, 16:44
Aye, like I say I am not running nitrous at the top end. Its too unpredictable to map as the bottle pressure changes with ambient temps etc so its fiddly to guess the map. Not worth the grief :no: We are just using it to get the car up and pulling and its doing a very fine job by all accounts :)

I did order some race fuel months and months ago but it never turned up so we gave up on it. Its also a faff to drain and refill the tank, Im too lazy for all that messing about ;)

def
08-12-2005, 20:40
Really good work Jez:thumbs:

Jez
09-12-2005, 00:28
Cool - so we're set :)

I'll let you know when I'm ready and we can sort something out :)

Phil LS
09-12-2005, 03:26
looking forward to seeing this one :)

alanjuggler
09-12-2005, 08:22
this should be good :thumbs:

though i dont know how you drive these cars.. mine is a bloody nutter even at relatively low boost. i think i need to learn more precise throttle control :wack:

scimmy ben
09-12-2005, 09:32
LOL :)
So you're happy on pump fuel and no NOS then?

Some dyno operators/owners won't allow nitrous because of the too temperamental points that Bren makes

This should be good :D You two could sell tickets :D

bren
09-12-2005, 13:15
Gary has all the parts he needs and they are just finalising the car now, we should be good for first thing next year :) Or maybe even just before Christmas :nod:

SM
09-12-2005, 13:43
Can you make your Thor date early Jan please :D

Jez
09-12-2005, 15:44
I may be ready before Christmas - depends on wether my CDI is ok or not. If not I'll have to get another from the states which could take a while.

bren
09-12-2005, 15:59
Ah, I thought you were ready when you said you were all set :)

Theres a cheap trackday at Donno on the 29th of Dec :)

RohanC
11-12-2005, 19:24
Would love to see that... where's thor?

Got to say... Thats ~560 flyHP on the old style Apex intercooler :D

Bigtone
11-12-2005, 19:28
I may be ready before Christmas - depends on wether my CDI is ok or not. If not I'll have to get another from the states which could take a while.
wont you wait for lil o me :(

Jez
11-12-2005, 19:51
Depends when you're going to be ready I guess. We could always do another later on :)

bren
11-12-2005, 20:01
Our S13s life is now limited so if we are going to attend then itll have to be sooner rather than later :nod: :)

arry
11-12-2005, 20:25
you're gonna lose the S13 Bren?

bren
11-12-2005, 20:27
Aye, shes going to have to go. The S14a is going to (like it hasnt already) suck up a HUGE amount of cash and I have plans for another car so the S13 has to go. Its been pushed as far as we can take it on standard posiiton internal wastegate turbo so in terms of business usage shes done for :(

arry
11-12-2005, 20:28
I really thought you'd keep her for the track :(

bren
11-12-2005, 20:29
Cant afford to run loads of cars and, as I say. something new has come along so something has to give :(

Its still a 200 though :)

alanjuggler
11-12-2005, 23:16
a thor day might be good, if i can get my oar in and run my car too. jez is finishing the mapping in jan so i should be ready for janish. :)



bren:

it's a shame about the s13, it was my favourite of your test cars :)

but im already starting to think in vulture mode! - you've done evil things to me, with all your old parts :wack:

Jim
11-12-2005, 23:32
Pah ... i was thinking in vulture mode long before this ;) (Not that i want to see that car broken :()

SM
12-12-2005, 00:09
but im already starting to think in vulture mode!
:rolleyes: I already PM'd Bren my wish list :wack:

TomM
12-12-2005, 01:25
Will the s13 be offered for sale as a complete car prior to breaking, Bren? :)

bren
12-12-2005, 09:36
Nah, no one will pay what Id want for it :no: The only way to get the money back out of it is to break it :(

TomM
12-12-2005, 22:54
Ballpark? ;)

bren
12-12-2005, 22:55
The cars worth an easy £15k in bits, no ones going to pay that :no:

Parker
12-12-2005, 22:56
Bagsy the ARBS :p lol

RohanC
13-12-2005, 20:04
Its still a 200 though :)

Oh christ, you're branching out into Rover modifying arnt you :(

:wack:

bren
13-12-2005, 20:19
;)

Buffy
13-12-2005, 20:49
So what are the "rules" then?

Can I run race fuel? :wack: I did at Bruntingthorpe but didn't have my laptop with me to adjust the timing, I just used it as det prevention there (didn't see much point as I was wheelspinning most of the way through 3rd due to the weather). Managed to go through 20 ltrs. in ~27 miles :eek: :D

Jez
13-12-2005, 20:52
Rules are:
1. Pump fuel, cos its chuffing expensive and a pain to swap from pump to race fuel.
2. No NOS, cos its cheating ;)

Coming along? :)

Buffy
13-12-2005, 20:54
what about WI????

sound good to me :nod:

Jez
13-12-2005, 20:57
what about WI????

Thats ok :)

Buffy
13-12-2005, 20:59
But pedantic Bren said it was cheating :wack:

bren
13-12-2005, 21:00
It is :nod:

Buffy
13-12-2005, 21:01
So Jez can cheat but we can't? :cry:

Jim
13-12-2005, 21:04
seems not :( ;)

bren
13-12-2005, 21:14
I dont think any of its cheating to be honest, whatever floats your boat. However if nitrous is cheating then so is race fuel and wi because they give an advantage in that they allow the timing to be advanced/boost to be raised/mixture to be leaned off.

Buffy
13-12-2005, 21:16
We'll let Jez use his Wi then. I know how to hamper him. ;)














































I'll have his plenum tomorrow :D

Jim
13-12-2005, 21:17
I dont think any of its cheating to be honest, whatever floats your boat. However if nitrous is cheating then so is race fuel and wi because they give an advantage in that they allow the timing to be advanced/boost to be raised/mixture to be leaned off.
I was referring to allowing one over another... kinda what you were saying...

Gary@APT
13-12-2005, 21:19
bren is hampered big time at the minute.....

















it dont run yet!!!

bren
13-12-2005, 21:20
I know, Im just saying that I personally dont think any of it is out of order, whatever you do to increase power is ok by me :)

Buffy
13-12-2005, 21:22
I'll still be ~100bhp behind you two idiots even running race fuel :cry: :wack:

Jez
13-12-2005, 23:35
Brens right really, any of the methods of getting more power are viable in a dyno queen shootout.

I need WI for my car to produce decent power (or race fuel without WI), which is why I'm a bit biased ;) But having said that, in the class I sprint in WI is allowed, NOS and race fuel aren't.

RohanC
15-12-2005, 00:14
The way i see it, race fuel allows more power due to higher octane, and NOS due to extra oxygen added to the intake charge.

WI is a method of reducing charge temps and is a differnt league to the others due to this.

bren
15-12-2005, 00:18
How does race fuel 'allow more power' due to its octance rating?

Jez
15-12-2005, 00:21
How does race fuel 'allow more power' due to its octance rating?

Race fuel generally has a higher calorific value and contains more free oxygen than pump fuel - this gives you more power. Its also got a higher RON/MON (as you know) which helps prevent det allow more ign advance to be run, again more power :)

bren
15-12-2005, 00:24
Ah, its a det inhibitor which allows the timing to be advanced/boost increased to achieve more power?

Sounds suspiciously familier to wi ;)

And would that there water contain methanol by any chance?

PhatBob
15-12-2005, 00:26
The way i see it, race fuel allows more power due to higher octane, and NOS due to extra oxygen added to the intake charge.

WI is a method of reducing charge temps and is a differnt league to the others due to this.

Adding water increases the charge's resistance to detonation, its in the same league as higher octane (race) fuel.

NOS adds more oxygen which requires more fuel to be added to maintain the same AFR, more fuel burnt = more power. Its more effective at adding power this way so it is in a different league.

They all allow more power to be obtained.

The only way to test the engines is to run them on the same octane fuel in the same air (temperature, pressure and humidity must be the same). Or on a rolling road that has air compensation. Water, NOS, differing fuel would have to be taken out of the equation.

The way to test who's set up is the most powerful is to run them with what ever setup they arrive with on the day. If it were an outright power battle then they'd all be running Methanol which has some obscene oxygen content.

Jez
15-12-2005, 00:26
WI allows a little more advance to be run, its not up to 118 octane though and doesn't increase the energy of the mix.

I do use some methanol in my water as an antifreeze and extra coolant - I can run plain water if you like though :)

bren
15-12-2005, 00:30
I dont care, Im just not going to agree that WI is significantly different to the other means of increasing power :)

Its just a bit of fun, Im not that bothered if we come first last or dont run at all. Its a bit of a giggle, thats all :nod:

If I was so anal about winning then Id have sent race fuel and water injection to Gary and would then have got him to map nitrous to the redline.

EDITED

Im doing a 180 degree turnaround and we are going to have a play with WI on our S13. Ive spent all this time arguing how good it is and have just realised that its actually probably pretty good :wack: So Im going to find out :)

Jez
15-12-2005, 11:10
EDITED

Im doing a 180 degree turnaround and we are going to have a play with WI on our S13. Ive spent all this time arguing how good it is and have just realised that its actually probably pretty good :wack: So Im going to find out :)

LOL - you should be in politics :)

SM
15-12-2005, 11:22
*** points and laughs at Bren ***

Go on, get the Nitrous mapped past 5K while your at it ;)

bren
15-12-2005, 11:56
We have sold our last WI kit, I didnt know :cry: Ill have to get one ordered.

Chris B
15-12-2005, 19:51
IMO... WI just reduces inlet charge and reduces chance of det, race fuel does this too but also has the higher calorific value so is cheating to some extent, NOS adds oxygen in massive volumes (also reducing charge temp) so I would class it as not playing on a level playing field... it's all personal opinion, whoever has the most power and torque etc wins, TBH doesn't matter how you do it.

Methanol would actually reduce RON and MON IIRC, it barely makes a difference, TBH I wouldn't use it unless it's v cold as it is known to cause corrosion in the engine :(

Jez just likes winding Bren up, and it's funny to watch :D

Be intersting to see WI, NOS and everything on your engine Bren, that could have some mentally massive torque mountain range :D

On an side note, what sort of value would WI be for me running Stage 3 on an APT Stage 1 engine? Just dipping a toe in the water before I finalise my next plans ;)
More torque lower down?
How much would a comprehensive mapping session be on WI and how much is WI set-up?

bren
26-02-2006, 18:09
Our cars fit now but I dont want to go all the way down to Thor until we have tried out the new bits and hopefully got our power to climb all the way to 7500 rather than flatlining at 6k.

The new bits will be here mid March so we arent a million miles away :)

Jez
26-02-2006, 18:41
Sounds good to me :)
I just got my car running correctly, and the manifold hasn't split again - done a trackday and about 500 miles so fingers crossed it'll stay together now.

Shall we say end of march then? Will that give you enough time to get the parts fitted and working?

Jez
26-02-2006, 18:47
On an side note, what sort of value would WI be for me running Stage 3 on an APT Stage 1 engine? Just dipping a toe in the water before I finalise my next plans ;)
More torque lower down?
How much would a comprehensive mapping session be on WI and how much is WI set-up?

Chris - only just saw this :rolleyes:
WI won't increase power as such - i.e. if theres limited boost and ignition timing is set correctly without having to compromise for det then you won't gain anything. It's good for situations where you are having to overly retard the ignition to stop det, at the expensive of power. It will also help to reduce in cylinder temps and EGTs.

The main reason I use it is because my comp ratio is a little high for the boost I want to run meaning I'd have to retard the ign (which increases EGTs) a lot to stop det (or take the engine apart and reduce the CR).

I use an Aquamist WI kit with their MF2 controller - works very well. I think Bren sells the kits, not sure how much though. I can map it all up if required :)