Top ten drift cars

[H]

Found this:
http://velocity.isfaster.com/drift/cars.htm
Whadda you reckon for your own top ten. I would expect a supra in mine!!

[200sxer]

er.. your link don't go anywhere matey:p

[andyf]

http://velocity.isfaster.com/drift/cars/cars.htm

[H]

Ah ha:o Thats ruined that then
Cheers Andy;)

[shadowninja]

1) is drifting the same as powersliding? in my mind the two things are distinctly different
2) this guy just loves japanese cars, particularly 80s jap cars. it doesn't sound like he has actually tried to powerslide any of these cars to work out which cars are better or worse for powersliding in terms of power delivery, control and balance.
3) surely a n/a car with lots of low end torque would be better cos the power can be delivered more precisely, plus there's no power lag (turbo lag) so if you select a higher gear you can still break traction and slowly get into powerslide mode
4) have you powerslided a supra tt?
5) Tiff Needell swears by the bmw z3m roadster as the ultimate car for powersliding (and Clarkson recommends the z3m coupe despite hating BMWs) so I'm going with them on this ;)
6) failing taking Tiff's advice I would opt for a R33 GTR cos apparently they are set up so that even a moron like me can powerslide any corner at any time :)

Just a thought. :)

[SteveCarter200]

Originally posted by shadowninja
1) is drifting the same as powersliding? in my mind the two things are distinctly different
2) this guy just loves japanese cars, particularly 80s jap cars. it doesn't sound like he has actually tried to powerslide any of these cars to work out which cars are better or worse for powersliding in terms of power delivery, control and balance.
3) surely a n/a car with lots of low end torque would be better cos the power can be delivered more precisely, plus there's no power lag (turbo lag) so if you select a higher gear you can still break traction and slowly get into powerslide mode
4) have you powerslided a supra tt?
5) Tiff Needell swears by the bmw z3m roadster as the ultimate car for powersliding (and Clarkson recommends the z3m coupe despite hating BMWs) so I'm going with them on this ;)
6) failing taking Tiff's advice I would opt for a R33 GTR cos apparently they are set up so that even a moron like me can powerslide any corner at any time :)

Just a thought. :)

1)No, they are different. Powersliding is getting the arse end out as you are exiting a bend, drifting is getting the car sideways as you enter the bend and then keeping it sideways.
2)His list of cars are for drifting, not powersliding.
3)possibly but all the popular cars used in drifting are either turbo'd or high reving small cc NAs.
4)The JUN supra did a pretty good job of it. They are also used a fair bit in drifting, as are Soarers.
5)Drifting again, not powersliding. Needel is top stuff at powersliding but if I remember correctly he had a go at drifting and was rubbish at it.
6)A GTR would be crap for drifting because the electronics controlling the 4WD system transfer the power to the front wheels when it senses that the rears are losing traction, so any potential drift would be cancelled out. Have you ever seen a GTR trying to dohnut? Nearly impossible.

[shadowninja]

Hmm I'm not entirely convinced your definition of drifting and powersliding is correct, so my 6 statements and your 6 statements are debateable :D

Whatever the case, I thought powersliding was possible all the way round the corner, from entry to exit (hence powersliding the corner not the straight... which is what Tiff does ;) ), and involved using the gas pedal to get the back end to stay out and you'd have the steering wheel with opposite lock, whereas drifting was more what 4wd cars (but also possible in rwd cars) did where you get understeer but also the back end slipped outwards under power, as in a sort of drift? :)

so in a way you're right about the engine being relevant... and therefore it'd probably make sense that the suspension is definitely important.

finally I'd like to see this footage of tiff not drifting properly :)

sorry this is long... I'm a scientist and like to analyse :D

[SteveCarter200]

Have you seen any drifting video clips? No 4WD cars are used in drifting. Proper drifting can be done in a straight line too, weaving side to side of a track using lift off oversterr to get the arse end out and using the throttle to control it.

If you notice, Tiff enters the bend, halfway round he applys throttle, arse end steps out, corrects it until he exits the bend.
Drifting is getting the arse end out sideways before or on the entrance to a bend.

At the end of the day, drifting is far more extreme than powersliding, the angles involved are far more than what Tiff does.

A bit of straight road drifting.. http://www.japanesemotorsport.com.au/jamesfinal.mpg

Also, have a Look at PazzaEP82s website, it has lots of info on drifting http://www.finaldrivemagazine.com/~pazzaep82/

[shadowninja]

Originally posted by SteveCarter200
Have you seen any drifting video clips? No 4WD cars are used in drifting. Proper drifting can be done in a straight line too, weaving side to side of a track using lift off oversterr to get the arse end out and using the throttle to control it.

If you notice, Tiff enters the bend, halfway round he applys throttle, arse end steps out, corrects it until he exits the bend.
Drifting is getting the arse end out sideways before or on the entrance to a bend.

At the end of the day, drifting is far more extreme than powersliding, the angles involved are far more than what Tiff does.

A bit of straight road drifting.. http://www.japanesemotorsport.com.au/jamesfinal.mpg

Also, have a Look at PazzaEP82s website, it has lots of info on drifting http://www.finaldrivemagazine.com/~pazzaep82/

hmm so drifting is getting the tail out anywhere irrespective of whether there is a corner or not?

that straight road drift looks like fishtailing to me... ie poor control / over compensating.

and I'm sure I've seen tiff get the back end out using the scandinavian flick before the corner

looks like someone's gonna have to show me in person

besides given that "drifting" involves adding power and sliding, shouldnt it also be called powersliding? sounds like they are essentially the same thing but just done at different times (apparently!).

thing is four wheel drifting is something that rally drivers have been doing for years, which is what I thought "drifting" would/should be!

update...
just came across this site:
http://www.ouhsd.org/ohs/Right_Page/Silver_DollarFair/Web%20Sites/Vang,%20T/My%20Web/whatsdrift.html

seems to confirm my original understanding of drift vs powerslide, which makes powersliding more extreme due to the excessive sliding and tyre wear. also they seem to think that you can use 4wd cars, which also confirms my original understanding of what drifting is, as opposed to powersliding.

still, if anyone can "drift" (ie powerslide) their car, they still deserve respect :)

[Dunk]

Drifting is what Rally Drivers (used to) do. Sideways prior to the apex of a corner and using the oversteer to effectively 'drfit' the car through a corner. Works a treat on snow/ice/loose.... On tarmac its just for show-offs to demonstrate car control.

Powersliding is a slide generated under power on exiting a corner.

To make a good drifter, I assume the following characteristics would be beneficial in the car chosen:

Shed loads of torque
Light rear end
LSD
Low moment of inertia
High castor on the front wheel
near solid back end
good on/off throttle characteristics (normally from low compression engines)
Cheap body panels
Very direct steering
Not too much weight in the nose

This would rule out most of the Jap super coupes. Aside from the electronic jiggery used in the Skylines, the high weight, big rear over hang, heavy nose and engine weight well over and in front of the front axle. Linear straight six power delivery, and all up largeness make em a poor choice.

The 200 is good because the steering is responsive, it inherently oversteers anyway, not a lot of weight past either axle, its relatively light and small and the engine has fairly smooth transient throttle characteristics.

The weapon of choice for most drifters seems to be either the S13 or an AE86 Corolla.

Draw your own conclusions

Course, if they all had S14a Slushmatics they'd all be better at it....(cue Auto/Manual & S13/S14/S14a debate)

[TAC]

Originally posted by Dunk
Course, if they all had S14a Slushmatics they'd all be better at it....(cue Auto/Manual & S13/S14/S14a debate)
:mad: Grrrrrrrrrrr ;):D

[andyf]

Originally posted by SteveCarter200
Have you seen any drifting video clips? No 4WD cars are used in drifting.

Steve, gonna have to mention this:

JUN 600+ HP EVO 5 "Super lemon" drifting movies
http://www.exvitermini.com/mvarious.htm (about half way down

Won the 2001 Tuners Drift Challenge in a 4WD Evo!

[shadowninja]

Originally posted by Dunk
Drifting is what Rally Drivers (used to) do. Sideways prior to the apex of a corner and using the oversteer to effectively 'drfit' the car through a corner. Works a treat on snow/ice/loose.... On tarmac its just for show-offs to demonstrate car control.


now this is a good description of drifting... I understand it now :)



Powersliding is a slide generated under power on exiting a corner.


I'm not sure about this exiting business. I think its just applying power to get a slide anywhere in the corner, without using the inertia of the car while braking for instance.



To make a good drifter, I assume the following characteristics would be beneficial in the car chosen:

Shed loads of torque


I figured this would help or you could easily end up getting traction and killing the fun



Cheap body panels


:D


The weapon of choice for most drifters seems to be either the S13 or an AE86 Corolla.


useful to know :)

-D

[PazzaAE86]

In my humble opinion, that Evo isnt really Drifting... (Depending on your definition of the word Drift of course, as Shadow Ninja has highlighted). I have a few Drifter friends who also agree with me on the Evo score. It is damn impressive for sure, however..

Here you go, Shadow Ninja, to highlight what Steve has been trying to explain, watch these following videos.. This is the Japanese Sense of the word "Drift"..


This should explain how Drifters like to enter the turns.. This guy is slightly more insane than anyone else however. :) I forgot his damn name too, but hes in "Team Marrionettes". This is not powersliding.

http://208.252.108.207/SSvideos/driftvids/fdchokudorispeed.mpg
http://208.252.108.207/SSvideos/driftvids/orangefdhighspeed.mpg

This clip shows how they link turns. This is not powersliding.

http://208.252.108.207/SSvideos/driftvids/kstylesilvia1.mpg

The text book definition of powersliding is too much throttle after the apex of a turn, and this is the agreed definition by all racing drivers etc. The definition of Drift can be taken in many ways, for example, when all four wheels of your car are skitting across the tarmac due to exccesive cornering speed, this could be called a "drift", or exiting a bend and letting the car run wide to make full use of the road, often called "drift" or to "drift out wide".

The Japanese sense of the word is far more exciting however.. Steve has said it above, but just to re-iterate, its pitching the car sideways into an oversteer condition by compromising lateral rear grip, before the entrance to the turn and then balancing the car through the remainder of the turn, keeping the car sideways, untill the exit of the turn and somtimes way past and linking into another turn (as per that last video).

Straight road fishtailing is known as "Manji", basically used to link turns into each other, so its not over compensation/poor control, its quite the opposite. Its done on purpose.

Just watching those video's should show you all you need to know.. If not, i can post more, or you can come to my house and watch some Drift videos!

Paz

[shadowninja]

interesting. I can see the diff between powersliding and drifting, although I suppose part of the drifting involves powersliding once the momentum of the initial flick has "run out" (after all that would be to just get the back end to come round pre-corner)

what is that evo doing? according to your description of drifting it looks like drifting...

and from what you've said drifting (precluded by the scandinavian flick) seems to be just what Dunk said (ie what rally drivers do)...

And that guy in the yellow car is a maniac!!

as for manjis... must be quite difficult to make it look like it was intended...

so, it looks like I have something else to look forward to learning cos I've pretty much sussed the powerslide (midcorner, not wussy post-exit style!). on a private road of course :D

[PazzaAE86]

Yeah, learning to powerslide is an essential part of Drifting.. But as you said, its only part of Drifting technique.

My definition of drifting (well, not just mine, i suppose i take the widely accepted view on it) involves opposite lock/countersteer. That Evo countersteers for the first part of the turn, but then to stop the car from pulling out of the turn early (as 4WD and FF do), the driver has to put more lock back on again, so basically he is having to alter his drift angle using power and steering into the turn.. In FR, adjusting drift angle is done by power, Handbrake and Clutch kicking, thus always ensuring countersteer. Again, its all down to your definition of drifting.

I suppose the differance between WRC Drifting and Drifting is the countersteer again.. WRC cars are over steering, but with them being largly 4WD, they arent always countersteering, much like the JUN Auto Mechanic Evo.

I have however seen a WRX drifting properly, opposite lock and all.. I wonder if you can get a RWD conversion kit for WRX's?

Why is a Manji difficult to look like you intended to do it? That Silver K-Style Silvia Manji's from the hairpin to the 90 Degree right, looked pretty intentional, very smooth and slick... Surely if it was an accidental occourance, then it would get more and more out of hand as the driver struggled to regain control? The pendulum effect would spin the driver out after a few failed correction attempts?

Anyway, some more video clips:

Here is a text book Drift. Smooth, controled and in a great looking car! :)

http://bil.zon.se/filmer/mike/silviadrift.mpeg

Koguchi-San in his sweet S13:

http://bil.zon.se/filmer/mike/koguchi.mpg

Very smooth again, Links multiple turns, always countersteering:

http://bil.zon.se/filmer/mike/rx7driftvideo.mpeg

Street Drifting: Manji's in the first one, and just awesome in the second one... See how the tunrs are linked? Some driver start with a powerslide, and link them on.. Perhaps a good way to learn?

http://bil.zon.se/filmer/mike/streetdrift1.mpeg
http://bil.zon.se/filmer/mike/streetdrift2.mpeg

And of course, the other side of Drifting.. Touge:

http://bil.zon.se/filmer/mike/dueldrift.mpeg

Hope you enjoy the vids!

Paz

[shadowninja]

cool vids :)

i suppose if you officially define drifting to always involve opposite lock then fair enough.

some 4wd cars can powerslide (ie opposite lock) cos of the power distribution... eg Impreza WRX STi Type R and Type RA can be set to 65% power through the rear wheels...

thing is you could still get a situation where your rear end is sliding outwards and you're not driving with opposite lock even in a RWD car... like when your front tyres are less grippy than the rears (seen all manner of RWD cars do this on track days).

The thing about manjis is that it just looks like the guy only caught it after the 2nd "wiggle" and only managed to compensate correctly at that point! If there was another corner to negotiate then it would look a lot better. I suppose its just one of those things... if you're "in the know" you can respect it more. But aesthetically it just doesnt seem as clever. :)

[Zenki]

I thought the idea of "drifting" was to take a series of consecutive corners without gaining traction with the rear wheels. It would obviously be easier with a RWD car but with a little handbrake and lifting off a FWD car should be capable. I've never driven a 4WD car but I would imagine that the technique would be a combination of the two but you would need an older 4WD car like an Integrale that didn't have all the electronic compensation aids to get it properly out of shape??

[PazzaAE86]

The only trouble with FF (FWD) drifting is that its far more likly to roll the car. ERK! The other, more common trouble is the way in which you have to make an FF Drift, it means constantly scrubbing off speed (As you said, handbrake, Lift off) and so linking consecutive turns becomes harder and harder as speed is always decreasing.. People do drift FF however, ive seen a few articles in Drift Tengoku and heard of people becoming quite good at it..

From my experiance with FF Drifting, its not much fun (i dont bother trying it much anymore) and is pretty hard to do properly... Properly being the key word! :)

Cool signature.. Describes me and money quite well!!!

Paz

[Nathan_200sx]

Originally posted by PazzaEP82
The only trouble with FF (FWD) drifting is that its far more likly to roll the car. ERK! The other, more common trouble is the way in which you have to make an FF Drift, it means constantly scrubbing off speed (As you said, handbrake, Lift off) and so linking consecutive turns becomes harder and harder as speed is always decreasing.. People do drift FF however, ive seen a few articles in Drift Tengoku and heard of people becoming quite good at it..

From my experiance with FF Drifting, its not much fun (i dont bother trying it much anymore) and is pretty hard to do properly... Properly being the key word! :)

Cool signature.. Describes me and money quite well!!!

Paz
To right it can be done ;) I used to have a 950 fiesta pop with ultra skinny wheels. used to be able to slide it round corners from the apex peice of piss, I must be a feak cos I could do it better in that thing than in the 2***** which scares the sh... crap out of me sometimes. you had a big incentive to get it right as well because there is a 6ft deep ditch down the side of virtualy every lincolnshire backroad.

[AshT_200]

Originally posted by Nathan_200sx

To right it can be done ;) I used to have a 950 fiesta pop with ultra skinny wheels. used to be able to slide it round corners from the apex peice of piss, I must be a feak cos I could do it better in that thing than in the 2***** which scares the sh... crap out of me sometimes. you had a big incentive to get it right as well because there is a 6ft deep ditch down the side of virtualy every lincolnshire backroad.

Yep, and I could do it in a Mk3 Vauxhall Astra 1.7 Diesel as well :D