View Full Version : S14/S14a stage 2 preliminary results - 320ft.lbs!!!
Just got back from the rollers. Did some work on the S14/S14a stage 2 chip and its nearly finished.
Something odd is going on as the peak power was about the same as last time at around 270-280bhp but I've managed to get the torque in the mid range increased by quite a large amount, around 320ft.lbs!! :eek:
Anyway, heres (http://bagpuss.swan.ac.uk/horsham-developments/video/stage 2 power run.wmv) a video of the power run (~2Mb).
And heres the graph, before the stage 2 chip (stage 1 at about 1 bar) and after (with the +70ft.lbs mid-range torque gain):
http://bagpuss.swan.ac.uk/horsham-developments/images/graham stg2s.jpg
The run was done in 4th gear. Injectors peaked at about 80% duty, which is good. Fuelling was pretty much spot on through out the rev range. Couldn't get the boost to stay at 1.2 bar to the red line. Intake air temps were around 20 deg C. Had to stop doing any adjustments due to a slipping clutch :(
SteveSadler
24-02-2005, 01:45
nice one Jez
post your a/f ratio graphs up mate.
sunnybono
24-02-2005, 07:19
whats the spec needed for the stage 2? i take its front mount, walbro and bigger injectors?
post your a/f ratio graphs up mate.
Forgot to get a print out (completely my fault). They're basically between 12 - 12.5:1 from 2750rpm - 7000rpm.
The run was done in 4th gear. Injectors peaked at about 80% duty, which is good.
The injectors peaked at 80% with 555s running less that 280bhp ?? Surely that cant be right can it ??
i take its front mount, walbro and bigger injectors?
Yup:
Filter
Exhaust
FMIC
Walbro
Nismo 555cc injectors
1.2 bar boost
sunnybono
24-02-2005, 12:25
1.2 bar boost
standard turbo?
Wow!
I assume those are flywheel figures not wheel figures?
Loads of useful midrange torque there :thumbs: just where you need it most :nod:
I assume those are flywheel figures not wheel figures?
Yeah - fly figures.
Loads of useful midrange torque there :thumbs: just where you need it most :nod:
:thumbs:
Going to try and sort the top end out asap. Hopefully get some more power :)
Keep up the good work mate as im waitin to get the Stage 2 chip as soon as u is done!
Oh is it Nismo 555's or 550's by the way?
Yippee!!
Zen :nod:
Oh is it Nismo 555's or 550's by the way?
So long as they're the Nismo injectors it should be fine. I think some people quote 555cc and other 550cc - they're the same part AFAIK :)
Okydoky! Thought it was my lack of knowledge that was the prob. :confused:
Im not that stupid after all! :D
Any idea how much longer before your Stage 2 chip is fine tuned? :notworthy
Zen
I'll be finished in the very near future :)
Go Grazor :notworthy
Algie won't be able to keep up with you now and I stand no chance :wack:
Excellent work Jez :nod:
Jolly and I were contemplating his high torque figures the other day and think that maybe it's down to the tiny S14a throttle body, hence 320 ft-lbs of torque is not that much of a shock for me, very good figure on that turbo though :thumbs:
Just read a post and mention of u finishing stage 2 tonight. What sort of bhp gains did u manage to get or is it still same as stage 1 almost.
Spose u need to r/r it before
Did i here the the pilot has a stage 2 chip already but having fuelling probs?
Wat is the final bhp and torque figures then ?
Or correct me if im wrong!!!
The stage 2 chip is not completely finished yet - I need to get Grazors car back on the rollers to finish off the top end.
Not sure where you got the fuelling probs bit from :confused:
Its for tom (thepilot) who's having problems with fueling on your stage 2 chip. Not sure if he's spoken to you yet?
:confused:
Ok well thanx for the update matey!!!! :thumbs:
now i understand :annoyed: :furious: :annoyed: :annoyed: :wack: :whip:
Is mine going to work OK Jez?? Will it need fine tuning? Its a 3 hour drive for me to get to you if it does!! Its not getting fit until next week now anyway so Ill see what its like then! Im using a Profec B 1 boost controller by the way!!
Is mine going to work OK Jez?? Will it need fine tuning? Its a 3 hour drive for me to get to you if it does!! Its not getting fit until next week now anyway so Ill see what its like then! Im using a Profec B 1 boost controller by the way!!
Yeah, it'll be fine. The fuelling is spot on and theres no det :) If theres any major changes (which I doubt) I'll send you an update (really easy to do, no soldering required at all :) )
Yeah, it'll be fine. The fuelling is spot on and theres no det :) If theres any major changes (which I doubt) I'll send you an update (really easy to do, no soldering required at all :) )
OK thats great Jez :D The guy thats fitting it says hes done a few on S13's and fitted a couple of chips on 300zx's so he should be able to do it! :D
Still up for testing this at some point with the set of Blitz 550's I have....?
Still up for testing this at some point with the set of Blitz 550's I have....?
Yeah - do you have them fitted? If so, how are you controlling the fuelling at the moment? :)
AndyStuttgart
06-03-2005, 12:39
Any news here? Stage 2 finished now?
I've got the rolling road booked on the 10th March - then they will be ready for sale :)
Just hope nothing gets in the way this time.
Woot :clap: :notworthy
Oh, hold on, that means more money gone. Noooooooooooooooooooooo. :cry:
:D
Well done Jezz. Do you want payment once the chips are ready, or do you want a small deposit beforehand, to secure early delivery ;)
:confused:
Ok well thanx for the update matey!!!! :thumbs:
Jolly's got it wrong. I did have a Jez chip but my fuelling problems are related to a list of faults as long as my arm (timing, electrical faults etc). Nothing to do with this chip/thread at all.
Yeah - do you have them fitted? If so, how are you controlling the fuelling at the moment? :)
Not fitted atm... :(
I've got the rolling road booked on the 10th March - then they will be ready for sale :)
Just hope nothing gets in the way this time.
let us know how u get on asap !!!!
Again well done, looking fwd to getting one asap !!!! :thumbs:
davebargh
07-03-2005, 22:46
What sort of top end power are we looking at? I've got 260bhp and 312ftlb torque with standard injectors and turbo running at 0.9bar boost without DET. I'm looking for around 320bhp with GT28R turbo and all rest of required mods required for stage 2. Is this reasonable?
The stage 2 chip is for a car running 1.2 bar on the standard turbo. Should get around 320ft.lbs and 290bhp ish. These figures are from the Surrey Rolling Road
This RR tends to read lower than some other rolling roads - see the March 6th SE rolling road thread here: http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=129302&page=32&pp=20
jez
would an uprated wmic from bren be ok with a stage 2 chip or is stage 1 the safe max.
cheers
simon
You'd be able to run a stage 2 chip with an upgraded wing mount, but you'd have to keep the boost down a bit.
i hate to ask but whats the fuel economy on these thigns once the chips are on.
see im a twat.. (we know u all say) i like power but dont like to drive 4 mile then have to get fuel...(and dont say just get more than a Ģ1 of fuel then...)
can i also just ask what does the chip do with those mods? just set it up to run them correctly.
just asking as i say in a mag that dastek are doing a chip for the s14 that takes the car to 277bhp... but i always thought the chip doesnt give you all the power itself it just tells your car how to run the mods installed correctly?
well the dastek one only requires and exhaust....
AndyStuttgart
08-03-2005, 21:49
Hey Jez, canīt they give you dyno sheets with useful information?
Like I just ran one test today to see how the car runs without the chip on standard injectors before the swap, and they also logged A/F ratio and - important to see - boost!
http://gigb.mine.nu/Bosch2005-f.jpg
Yes, I can get graphs of torque, AFR, power and boost no problem. I'll post them up when I've finished on Thursday :)
i hate to ask but whats the fuel economy on these thigns once the chips are on.
Its probably better than standard. Ask someone who running the chip (IIRC Juz gets over 300miles a tank).
can i also just ask what does the chip do with those mods? just set it up to run them correctly.
Basically it remaps the fuelling and ignition timing so you can run more boost safely. The stage 2 allows you to run bigger injectors and the stage 3 will allow you to run a larger turbo, Z32 AFM and 550cc injectors.
AndyStuttgart
09-03-2005, 16:19
Jez, do you have any explanation why my torque curve is dropping that fast after the variable valve timing is activated? Drops like taking the foot off the pedal :(
Jez, do you have any explanation why my torque curve is dropping that fast after the variable valve timing is activated? Drops like taking the foot off the pedal :(
All the standard S14/S14a ECUs do that - its a combination of the over-rich fuelling (on your graph it drops below 0.75 lambda, which is about 10.5:1) and the ignition curve. If you look at the stage 2 graph a similar thing happens (although the fuelling is OK, the ignition curve needs changing a bit) - this is what I'm going to try and sort out tomorrow on the rolling road.
I've tried keeping the NVCS switched on for longer, higher up the rev range, but you have to retard the ignition a large amount to stop it detting it doesn't really help.
I've managed to get a pretty good curve for the stage 1 chip and I hope to sort it out for the stage 2 and 3 :)
Wish me luck!
AndyStuttgart
10-03-2005, 14:55
LOADS of luck from me, too ;)
today is the 10th yippee!!! hope u had all the luck u needed matey!!??
So r u keeping us all in suspense for a reason ?
I hope it didnt need anything doing to it! Ive already got mine, had it for a couple of weeks now!
It's all finished :)
Lude: I made some very minor changes to the ignition curve, that's all. Your chip will be fine, if you want the latest version, email me :)
We were at Surrey Rolling Road, which you will know reads lower than some other rollers from the RR day last Sunday - anyway we managed 289.1bhp (corrected) 298.9bhp (uncorrected) :) Nice smooth graph too :)
Heres the graphs:
Power and Torque (torque was down a bit on last time, not sure why I didn't alter anything in this area) - it was a bit warmer today than last time though.
Torque curve much smoother than before :)
http://bagpuss.swan.ac.uk/horsham-developments/images/s14a stage 2 power and torque.jpg
AFR and torque - deliberately a little rich at the top end to help keep things cool and prevent det.
http://bagpuss.swan.ac.uk/horsham-developments/images/s14a stage 2 afr and torque.jpg
Boost pressure and torque - I couldn't get the T28 to maintain 1.2 bar to the redline...
http://bagpuss.swan.ac.uk/horsham-developments/images/s14a stage 2 torque and boost.jpg
Loads of midrange torque there, i like :D I'll be after a stage 2 but not for a while, just spashed out on some shiney wheels :smitten: Once my bank account recovers I'll see Bren for some nismo 555's :thumbs:
Congrats mate :clap:
Something tells me that you're likely to be busy in the near future selling and fitting these chips.
where do I sign? :D
pulsargt
11-03-2005, 09:33
Nice work Jez
will hopefully be knocking on your door for one of these chips in the the next couple of months :thumbs:
where do I sign? :D
jez at h-dev.co.uk :D
Thanks for the support guys :)
i just thought of something you have my map for the auto s14a chips, well we forgot one minor detail the auto boxes dont like more than 270bhp at the fly :(
if buffy didnt bin that autobox :rant: i would have been quite happy to uprate the thing to get the desired power out of it :nod:
Good point - hadn't really thought of that. I guess I won't be selling many stage 2/3 auto chips...
Good point - hadn't really thought of that. I guess I won't be selling many stage 2/3 auto chips...
Perhaps just run them at lower boost?....1.1 rather than 1.2. Should hold ok then.
stage 1 is pushing it a bit :(
dont worry jez i am going to try and find a work around :nod:
i'll try 13 or 14 psi on the stage 1 and get some rr figures then we can go from there :nod:
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.9 Copyright © 2012 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.