View Full Version : 200SX Aluminium one piece propshafts
Lightweight, very strong and mucho bling ;) £355.
http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=13679&stc=1
Bean Bandit
15-12-2004, 15:06
what model uis it for or might it be a twin fit?
Theyre a bit of a strange one. Theyre for the S13 with SR20DET but Ive been told they will also fit the S14 with the SR20DET. Im also hoping they fit the S13 with the CA18DET. We will soon find out :)
Steve(S14a)
15-12-2004, 15:17
Theyre a bit of a strange one. Theyre for the S13 with SR20DET but Ive been told they will also fit the S14 with the SR20DET. Im also hoping they fit the S13 with the CA18DET. We will soon find out :)
Hi Bren,
When you check this out, could you weigh both the standard S14 one and the Alu one so that we can see the weight difference please? :)
That way I may be able to justify it to myself to buy one! ;)
I thought the splines on th SR gearbox are diffrent the splines on the CA gearbox... or am I talking pap?
Edit: no Im talking shite.. sorry... move along now. :o
I dotn have a standard prop to weight Im afraid :( Not yet anyway :)
Cripes!!
"Theyre for the S13 with SR20DET but Ive been told they will also fit the S14 with the SR20DET. Im also hoping they fit the S13 with the CA18DET."
How about the s14a with SR20DET!
Cost??? Also - what type of Alu?
Same thing, Ive been told theyll fit but I havenmt tried one yet. Theyre £355. Theyre silvery shiny type of alu ;) Thats all I know :)
Very, very very , very very very nice... if your holding that with ease, then it aint heavy!!!!!! Lord... What will they think of next! mmm Carbon bootlids for s14as???? hint suggest...
Id be really interested to know what manufacturer claims in terms of benefits for fitting one. Alu is way stiffer than steel - but the steel used in propshafts is fairly solid IIRC so wouldnt flex too much. Guess the biggest benefit would be weight saving.
They claimed to be stronger than the original. Theyre obviously a lot lighter too, theyre rated at 5 kilo but I havent weighed one.
The standard S13 one aint light... specialy when it lands on your face when you are trying to change the prop centre bearing cusion :wack:
Think the S13 one is either 13kg or 8kg IIRC, actually I'm probably talking rubbish about a Skylien Prop coz I can't remember where I got those figures from out of my head :smash:
5kg sounds VERY light though :nod: :thumbs:
Are Torqueline making a carbon fibre one for the 200SX yet ?
Very, very very , very very very nice... if your holding that with ease, then it aint heavy!!!!!! Lord... What will they think of next! mmm Carbon bootlids for s14as???? hint suggest...
Id be really interested to know what manufacturer claims in terms of benefits for fitting one. Alu is way stiffer than steel - but the steel used in propshafts is fairly solid IIRC so wouldnt flex too much. Guess the biggest benefit would be weight saving.
Carbon bootlids already exist and are around 450-500 US Dollars.
Bren, I know that these props will both the S13, S14 and S14a as long as they have the SR20DET engine.
I missed the delivery of mine today :(
Should get it tomorrow and I'll hopefully fit it too.
I've got a spare S13 prop so I'll be able to compare it weight wise and for fitment :)
I reckon the ali one will be around 10kg lighter, but we shall see.
One thing is puzzling me - why is the standard one a 2 piece shaft and this a 1 piece shaft? Anyone know why the std is 2 piece?
Just posting up as a reminder for the results, i will have one though. Something to add to the stage 2 tune :rolleyes:
Carbon bootlids already exist and are around 450-500 US Dollars.
Bren, I know that these props will both the S13, S14 and S14a as long as they have the SR20DET engine.
What about with the CA?
Jezz_S13
17-12-2004, 18:00
I'm told that will fit a CA.
I hope so anyway. :D
MeLLoN Stu
17-12-2004, 18:11
One thing is puzzling me - why is the standard one a 2 piece shaft and this a 1 piece shaft? Anyone know why the std is 2 piece?
cant think of any really feasible reason other than ease of manufacturing to be honest, could be something else though :)
Jezz_S13
18-12-2004, 14:36
Phil has jsut delivered mine and I've weighed it.
5255g
Whats to gain by innstalling one of these? Isnt the standard one strong enough?
danworth
20-12-2004, 09:58
it has less rotating mass there fore more power at the wheels and rev a bit more freer.
John Bennett
20-12-2004, 10:21
CA18 and SR20's have the same gearbox splines (as you keep your old prop when doing an engine swap) , so I'd reckon it would fit an S13 with either engine.
The S14 propshaft is 1057mm, the S13 propshaft 995mm (quoting ABS version for both, as non-ABS has a longer prop), so I'd be suprised if it fits S14's.
Probably won't fit autos either :D
Perhaps there's 2 parts due to the way the universal joints react when they have to take up considerable mis-alignment whilst rotating (the more the merrier?). Dunno, thought I'd have a guess :wack: :wave: That would be much earier to fit when lying under the car :cool:
Jez says the props 5mm too long and that the uv joint fouls on a shield. He says that it should be simple enough to modify the shield to allow the prop to fit properly.
Has anyone weight the standard one yet, or driven their car with it fitted for a difference? :)
Jezz_S13
20-12-2004, 11:58
Jez says the props 5mm too long and that the uv joint fouls on a shield. He says that it should be simple enough to modify the shield to allow the prop to fit properly.
That's pretty much how tyan707 described the fitting of the prop to the S14.
I guess a trial fit on Phil's car would be in order.
yup - should be able to sort it I think :)
how can you sort out a prop that's too long :confused:
The UJ joints are larger than the std ones and hit the shield on the gearbox. I think if I remove a bit of the shield the shaft will slide in further on the spline and it'll fit.
ahh I see :nod: and if it dont? :smash: :D
Just home on maximum rear suspention compression that it dosnt try to push the diff of the back of the car :p :wack:
Suspension travel wont effect the position of the diff in relation to the prop or box?? :confused:
Unless you include the movement in the subframe bushes?
If the splines on the CA gearbox are the same as the splines on the SR gearbox then it will fit both engines and on both cars (S13 and S14(a)).
The only mod needed to fit on the S14a was shorten to dustcover on the gearbox.
If the splines on the CA gearbox are the same as the splines on the SR gearbox then it will fit both engines and on both cars (S13 and S14(a)).
The only mod needed to fit on the S14a was shorten to dustcover on the gearbox.
Yup - it all fitted but I didn't shorten the dust cover.
Was your propshaft balanced? Or did you need to get it balanced?
It's already balanced.
You don't have to shorten the dustcover, you can remove it completely too.
It's already balanced.
How do you know? I can't see any grinding or additional materal added anywhere - does yours have weight added or removed in places?
How do you know? I can't see any grinding or additional materal added anywhere - does yours have weight added or removed in places?
Removed from places, not very noticeable.
And if it was unbalanced at the rpm's that I ran with it, I am sure I would a felt it.
cool - I'll take a proper look - as far as I could tell there was no balancing marks :)
Jezz_S13
21-12-2004, 09:23
I didn't see any balancing marks either, but TBH I didn't look too hard.
Ive emailed the supplied re balancing but I think hes on holiday untilt he new year now :(
Excellent, well done Jolly for going for this mod :thumbs: optimisation is key :nod:
Lightweight wheels would help too, nudge nudge ;)
Right
Got the prop shaft fitted - had to chop some of the sheild off to get it on.
I inspected the shaft to see if I could see any grinding marks for balancing - can't see anything at all.
Been for a blast and all seems good - no vibration, so I guess it must be balanced OK as it is.
Theres a bit of noise where the prop just touches a part of the shield - just have to do a bit more chopping.
Overall I can tell its different - a little more NVH in the car, not that that bothers me. Feels more direct. Not sure if theres much performance increase - guess there probably is some sort of gain, even if its just the 7kg weight saving :)
Noise vibration and harshness - my car is so bloody noisey, vibrationy and harsh it pales into insignificance to be honest :)
Jezz_S13
23-12-2004, 16:09
only 7kg lighter? :eek:
Can't see any balancing marks on mine, just had a look.
We are going to do a test fit on Phills S14 next week.
Yeah - I thought the original was heavier - 7kg less rotating mass is a good thing. I've got an S14a box here - the only difference is that the shield on the S14a box is covered in rubber - same diameter from just looking at it.
Think the S13 one is either 13kg or 8kg IIRC
Are Torqueline making a carbon fibre one for the 200SX yet ?
Must be 13Kg then ?
Anyone weighed the standard one recently?
TBH 7Kg is quite a bit of rotational mass but the prop doesn't spin all that fast does it :confused: the radius is relatively small IMO too so that weight saving might not make a big difference :confused:
Jezz, you could probably calculate how quick the Prop turns at a given speed, you are quite good with gearing and all that stuff :)
One thing is puzzling me - why is the standard one a 2 piece shaft and this a 1 piece shaft? Anyone know why the std is 2 piece?
Yep :D
Its to do with crumple zones, the bolts holding the prop up in the middle will give way and thus the shaft will move absorbing some impact energy and preventing damage to other components :)
Must be 13Kg then ?
Anyone weighed the standard one recently?
TBH 7Kg is quite a bit of rotational mass but the prop doesn't spin all that fast does it :confused: the radius is relatively small IMO too so that weight saving might not make a big difference :confused:
Jezz, you could probably calculate how quick the Prop turns at a given speed, you are quite good with gearing and all that stuff :)
You will also be raising the centre of gravity a tiny bit too, but lightening the car by 7Kg is still an improvement :)
Jezz_S13
23-12-2004, 18:46
The prop spins pretty quickly. About 5000-5500rpm at 100mph.
At 4k eng rpm in 5th the prop is spinning spinning at 4.87k
The prop spins pretty quickly. About 5000-5500rpm at 100mph.
At 4k eng rpm in 5th the prop is spinning spinning at 4.87k
Feck, that's a lot quicker than I had imagined... :eek: that must give some good gains for the money IMO :thumbs:
I had better start saving up :wack:
Yep :D
Its to do with crumple zones, the bolts holding the prop up in the middle will give way and thus the shaft will move absorbing some impact energy and preventing damage to other components :)
Good point - seems sensible...
VIDAL BABBOON
26-12-2004, 13:02
Had A nose at phils when i was fitting the intercooler !
Man it looks sexy lol
Wish he would stop showing me all these mods it's costing me a fortune lol
Had A nose at phils when i was fitting the intercooler !
Man it looks sexy lol
so thats why you spent so much time with your hands in your pockets :p :p
Jezz_S13
02-01-2005, 18:36
Buffy & myself, with some expert supervision from Chris and Phill ( LOL :D ) and some general monkeying around from Vidal_Babboon, had a play with the prop on Phills S14, the upshot of which is that they are 39mm too short. :(
Maybe a non ABS one would help but don't really think it'd be enough.
There is a bit of 'give' as to how far on the output shaft you put the prop but even the non ABS prop I think it'd be ~20mm short.
jezz s13
you calculated it wrong before mate,you divided 4000 by 0.83 instead of multiplying :thumbs:
Yep :D
Its to do with crumple zones, the bolts holding the prop up in the middle will give way and thus the shaft will move absorbing some impact energy and preventing damage to other components :)
cool, i thought it was to do with the angles it rotates at, but that makes more sense
Jezz_S13
03-01-2005, 14:50
jezz s13
you calculated it wrong before mate,you divided 4000 by 0.83 instead of multiplying :thumbs:
No, I did it right. :)
You divide it, or multiply by 1 over the ratio.
5th gear is overdrive, therefore the output shaft spins quicker than the input;
and 5th is 1:0.821 on the S13 which i worked it out for. :)
The output will spin once for every 0.821 of a turn of the input shaft.
So for 4000 engine rpm...
input/engine revs x ratio = output revs
4000 x 1/0.821 =
4000 x 1.218 = 4872
Thanks. :)
stripes1976
03-01-2005, 21:31
a propshaft for a road car is given joints to allow for driver error to remove vibration and harshness irrespective of weight. but on a race or rally car where vibration and harshness is pushed aside to allow less weight and power loss through joints. Transmition loss is the key to gaining extra horses at the rear wheels with this toy!!! A UJ can lose as much as 5% from fly to wheel!!!
do these fit an s14a auto?
Jeffers_S13
21-02-2005, 17:29
So are the UJ's at each end and the splined nose steel still ? how is the ali fastened to them ? is it 'through' bolted ? Is it definately aluminium ? A lot of the weight in the standard S13 prop is in all the UJ's and centre bearing, the prop (tubey bit) is made of very thin steel say about 18-20 SWG, so on its own would weight naff all.
That is goddam expensive for a propshaft, Im having a custom length one made for my Rush for only £60 plus VAT albeit a lot shorter and not made of ali, but even so materials are not that expensive, unless they have come up with a new fangled way of welding ali to steel :wack: my price also includes a brand new cossie UJ and flange for the rear, I supplied a standard S13 front splined section with UJ and a length of the old prop.
James
The ali shaft has an ali UJ U-shaped thing welded on each end then the 4 pointed star bit and the other half of each UJ is steel, as are the parts that bolt to the diff and go on the gearbox spline. Sorry for the lack of proper terms...
A UJ can lose as much as 5% from fly to wheel!!!
Sounds like rubbish to me. On my car 5% is ~22bhp which is 16kw - it'd be glowing red hot with that sort of power loss...
the term you are looking for is "yoke" ;)
Jeffers_S13
22-02-2005, 09:19
The ali shaft has an ali UJ U-shaped thing welded on each end then the 4 pointed star bit and the other half of each UJ is steel, as are the parts that bolt to the diff and go on the gearbox spline. Sorry for the lack of proper terms...
Ah right, so the cost is probably for these extra ali bits and I guess whatever development may have been needed :thumbs: I wonder if autoprop can make me an ali one for the S13...
do you have any of these left bren ? as i am after a one piece one at the moment
Yeah I have some but theyre slightly too short for the S14 meaning a spacer would need to be made up. Im not sure how good an idea this would be. It maybe fine no problem but it may cause issues. I just dont know :no:
Jeffers_S13
12-10-2005, 10:03
Give autoprop a ring, they'll make you a one piece steel one for a ~£120. All you need do is measure from the face of the prop front flange to the nose of the gearbox output shaft. Send them the nose off an old prop and the rear flange and they do the rest.
there is a place in coventry that can lengthen it for me no problem, so it would fit ok
also what is the diaimiter of the prop > is it 3" all the way down
Yeah theyre 3". We run one on our S13 with no problems. I have two that will fit the S13 and one thats slightly longer but not long enough for an S14. You can have that one for £225.
gangsta_goose
09-03-2007, 13:10
some1 tell me if im wrong...
its lighter which means theres less rotational mass - meaning less weight for the crank to turn... think its called parasitic drag or summin...
basically does same as lightweight flywheel...
also as its a 1 piece im assuming its more responsive?
if it fits the S13 with ca ill have 1 asap! :D
~~~Unless anywhere sells a carbon 1... :S
Yep - check out banzai or similar mags - theres a company who advertise in it called auto torque or autoline or something similar - they usually advertise - they make for any car. The carbon ones are rated even higher than the oem steel ones!
Yep - check out banzai or similar mags - theres a company who advertise in it called auto torque or autoline or something similar - they usually advertise - they make for any car. The carbon ones are rated even higher than the oem steel ones!
CTG TORQline. they're like a grand tho
ShawJohn
10-03-2007, 19:57
Should never balance these by removing material, and welding if done incorrectly will weaken it. Best way to add weight is to glue on little pieces of ali sheet, but this means it takes longer to balance them.
We have a 7m long balancing machine at work but it can't do small stuff very well, and drive/prop shafts have to be gripped at both ends, we only have one chuck. Having said all that our machine is for balancing industrial rollers upto 850mm dia x 6m long.
I reckon the ends of the ali tube are either shrink fit, and or pined on, or glued on as you cant weld ali to steel no matter how good you are :no:
And a 7kg reduction in prop shaft weight is almost certainly going to remove drive train losses, hence a slight improvement in whp.
For the record it will be spinning at 8675rpm when engine is at 7200rpm. So any significant inbalance would rattle the bejesus out of your floor pan :nod:
Watch for it expanding though if the exhaust heats it up, it will get longer ;)
CTG TORQline. they're like a grand tho
Yep thats them. I recall a big feature on them in one mag, and they were explaining why CF is the perfect material for this - also because of the reason in the post above. I understand they make bespoke for any application, but obviously sell a lot for scoobs and evos because they drastically cut down on transmission losses.
Mmmm some of them are a grand - some much cheaper... worth checking if this is something important to you or you are racing..
audi racer
12-03-2007, 23:04
are these gonna be strong enough to take slicks if i wanted to take the car up the pod or am i gonna chew it up ???
We didnt manage to break one with a 500bhp S13.
if they are slightly shorter would they fitr an s14a with rb26dett and rb25 gearbox??? hehe
Ive no idea to be honest but we are using it for our car :)
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