View Full Version : S14a Chip RR Results
Some of you already know I got the second S14a Chip, and FMIC compatability check with Jez :nod:
My thoughts are masses more torque :notworthy Couldnt really tell top-end but must be better with correct Fuelling.
Well on the NW RR day today I got these results
281.2BHP @ 5830rpm - then maybe it was wheelspinning ? as most people peaked @ 6450rpm.
247.3BHP @ Wheels
294.4 lb/ft @ 4180rpm :notworthy
1.1 Bar Boost. (Jez checked fuelling to 1.2 Bar but doesnt advise over 1 bar on std injectors/ stage 1 chip)
http://www.suicidesquad.co.uk/sm/sxoc/THOR/pro%20sport%2027-11-04%20power.jpg
http://www.suicidesquad.co.uk/sm/sxoc/THOR/pro%20sport%2027-11-04%20corrected.jpg
Cant really compare it to anything else, when I ran @ Thor a few months ago I didnt have the FMIC either, and ran 244@Hubs ~ 234@wheels, on the same boost.
http://www.suicidesquad.co.uk/sm/sxoc/THOR/Thor_Power_Torque_Aug%2004_small.jpg
Back in March I ran with much fewer mods (no FMIC or induction kit) Torque curves were as smooth, and peak power was 269bhp@6300
http://www.suicidesquad.co.uk/sm/sxoc/Blackburn%20RR%20Mrach%2004/Kevs_SM_269.JPG.JPG
Jezz_S13
27-11-2004, 17:33
the curve looks a sight better than it did before. :nod:
Just got back from a RR session too.
Heres some graphs - they show the standard unmodified map and the stage 1 map. They were run directly one after the other with no other changes at all. The runs were done at 15psi boost trailing off to 13-14psi at the top end.
Torque and bhp:
http://bagpuss.swan.ac.uk/horsham-developments/images/torque+bhp%20before%20and%20after.jpg
Torque and AFR:
http://bagpuss.swan.ac.uk/horsham-developments/images/torque+AFR%20before%20and%20after.jpg
Peak power at the wheels with the chip is 217.5bhp and torque at the wheels is 224 ft/lbs.
The peak gains from just the re-map are +15 ft/lbs and +18bhp.
What the graphs don't show is the much much smoother and crisper feel to the engine. PhilK, SM and Grazor have all said the chip makes the car better to drive :)
Grazor also ran his car up on the dyno with the stage 1 chip - he got 228bhp at the wheels at 1 bar boost.
Big thanks to PhilK, Grazor, NinjaSX and Charlie at www.SurreyRollingRoad.co.uk :Plug:
Nice results :thumbs:
what are the mods you need before it is worth investing in one of these chips when there available?
mike_s14
27-11-2004, 19:28
jez will the increase be more with the stage 2 when you've done it? going off experience of the other chips you've done
sm you only have 26.6 power loss, should be over 40 imho
Nice results :thumbs:
what are the mods you need before it is worth investing in one of these chips when there available?
You'll see benefits as soon as you start to increase the boost pressure above standard.
jez will the increase be more with the stage 2 when you've done it? going off experience of the other chips you've done
With 550cc injectors, FMIC and proper boost control at 1.1-1.2 bar I expect a large increase in power will be possible.
mike_s14
27-11-2004, 19:36
good just need to buy the 550's and she will be well into the 300's :)
what will be the next thing to max out ? turbo and maf at about 320???
or should i wait and get turbo and maf for stage 3? power output any thoughts
I think the AFM and turbo will be maxed at around 300bhp.
Big turbo with Z32 AFM will see you over 300bhp quite easily I'd have thought.
You'll see benefits as soon as you start to increase the boost pressure above standard.
i'll be having one of those bad boys when there released then :D
Cool - PhilK is going to run with the final version for a bit just to be 100% its OK and then they'll be for sale :)
mike_s14
27-11-2004, 19:45
I think the AFM and turbo will be maxed at around 300bhp.
Big turbo with Z32 AFM will see you over 300bhp quite easily I'd have thought.
good stuff :thumbs:
I might as well go for the stage 3 straight away as stage 2 will have little affect on my car :indiff:
What the graphs don't show is the much much smoother and crisper feel to the engine. PhilK, SM and Grazor have all said the chip makes the car better to drive :)
Yep thats right, although add in SCARIER :eek: really struggle for traction at the moment, std 205 wide wheels with dunlop rear tyres dont help, must order some more F1's instead of just what I had for using on airfield days.
Also runs fine on LPG with the chip :nod:
oh. and the bottom graph is bhp/AFR ;)
Nice to meet you guys today :thumbs:
I`m knackered :sleep: I`d been there since 9am
was a shame we couldn`t run Jez`s, we are going to come up with something to accomodate for silly low exhausts ;) :D
http://www.suicidesquad.co.uk/sm/sxoc/THOR/pro%20sport%20comparison%20s14a%20chip.jpg
Thats not a bad comparison, not as good as Jez's same car, same mods, same day, but close.
This is also pretty close in comparison to how the car feels compared to the torque curve.
leonatlarge
27-11-2004, 21:15
Have you altered the timing maps or just the fueling maps on the s14a chip if you have altered the maps at which points in the rev range did you retard/advance compared to standard
The ignition has been modified quite a bit - advanced off boost (to give more response and improve mpg), retarded a little on boost (to help prevent det).
leonatlarge
28-11-2004, 13:37
Can the s14 a chip compensate for extra power using airflow meter and lambda like the standard map does if so by how much can it compensate ,so basicly would it be possible for me t o run 1.2-1.7 bar with this chip and a gt28rs or gt2540 with different injectors and maf [z32]
This chip is for the standard AFM and injectors, so no, it wouldn't cope with a Z32 AFM and different injectors.
I will be doing maps for cars with bigger injectors and bigger AFMs, I just have to get suitable cars mapped up.
Well done Jez :thumbs: nearly there at last, it will be worth it all in the end :)
So it's going to be harder for me to keep up with Grazor now :D
So it's going to be harder for me to keep up with Grazor now :D
Yes, I'd expect so. Get him to sort out his boost control and he'll be zooming!
geavesie
28-11-2004, 22:53
all sounds good to me!
r they d.i.y or pro fitted and how much/availability?
hats off 2 ya!
I'm probably going to launch the chips next week. All will be revealed then :)
I'm probably going to launch the chips next week. All will be revealed then :)
I think they should come with free TC, I'm not used to wheelspinning in 3rd !!!! even if the tarmac is @ 2oC & I have shitty Dunlop tyres :eek: running 1.0Bar, wheelspins even on LPG in 2nd, but in 3rd too on Optimax !!!
Got to adapt my style to this 300 lb/ft :nod:
So theres no bother with 1 bar and a FMIC then.
Next on my list!!!!
No - works well with FMIC and a bar :)
archenemy.co.uk
30-11-2004, 12:32
Some of you already know I got the second S14a Chip, and FMIC compatability check with Jez :nod:
My thoughts are masses more torque :notworthy Couldnt really tell top-end but must be better with correct Fuelling.
Well on the NW RR day today I got these results
281.2BHP @ 5830rpm - then maybe it was wheelspinning ? as most people peaked @ 6450rpm.
247.3BHP @ Wheels
294.4 lb/ft @ 4180rpm
Thats good Torque Kev :)
with what Jez says
The ignition has been modified quite a bit - advanced off boost (to give more response and improve mpg), retarded a little on boost (to help prevent det).
I think your top end of 281 bhp could be being held back by the retardation Jez put in at the top end which you probably don't need as you have a FMIC :confused:
Why did you not wait for the stage 2 chip and get some 550s in? I presume thats the end plan?? Or are you going for a bigger tubby and a Z32?? :D
I think your top end of 281 bhp could be being held back by the retardation Jez put in at the top end which you probably don't need as you have a FMIC :confused:
Why did you not wait for the stage 2 chip and get some 550s in? I presume thats the end plan?? Or are you going for a bigger tubby and a Z32?? :D
I wanted the fuelling sorted before I mapped the LPG over the top of it.
The stage 1 chip cost less than a SAFC-II / not much more than just mapping, it also does the timing.
After looking at the other results I have decided that yes, it probably wasnt wheelspinning but is a fuction of the mapping. It would be nice to have an extra 10/15BHP at the top end, but with 280@5800rpm, and 295 ft/lb Torque from 3800rpm then I may as well short-shift @ 6000revs and not push the injectors quite as hard. Also be good for non-detting in summer on trackdays.
I have had to turn the boost down to 0.9Bar Anyway, to get some traction at least :nod: and really need wheels/tyres 17/235/45, 310 Brakes at least, Coilovers, Strut Braces ... all before more power, otherwise it will be as hard to keep pointing in the right direction as Big Tone and his Cheesestrings @ Japfest!!! So stage II will have to wait a while.
archenemy.co.uk
30-11-2004, 13:40
I think its a good price and a good option especially for those who's cars fit the stages.
I wasn't aware when I went for the SAFC & 480s that altering the airflow signal would cause the timing to be retarded (if I've got that right) Thats probably why mine feels a little laggy/slugish off boost. Once its going its all good :thumbs:
Anybody care to comment on that :) I don't know how much of an effect it will have??
I think your top end of 281 bhp could be being held back by the retardation Jez put in at the top end which you probably don't need as you have a FMIC :confused:
I'm a bit confused about this too. When I mapped Philks car on the road I advanced the ignition a bit at the top end but it didn't make any difference to power and it didn't det so I put it back to where it was.
The drop in power is more likely down to the mixture being a bit rich at the top end. I've leaned it out a little on Phils car and got more power from it. :)
I wasn't aware when I went for the SAFC & 480s that altering the airflow signal would cause the timing to be retarded (if I've got that right) Thats probably why mine feels a little laggy/slugish off boost. Once its going its all good :thumbs:
Anybody care to comment on that :) I don't know how much of an effect it will have??
With the SAFC, if you take fuel away it advances the ignition, if you need to richen the mixture it retards the ignition. The SAFC will cope well with a change in AFM (as the SAFC just modifies the AFM signal to the ECU) but is quite poor at coping with a change in injector size, IMO.
My chips can change the fueling and ignition timing maps independently.
archenemy.co.uk
30-11-2004, 13:46
care to comment on your off boost timing advancing and how that might be different to my set up Jez :confused:
Edit doh must write faster :smash:
With the SAFC, if you take fuel away it advances the ignition.
Thats how I understood it too, the ECU thinks there is even less load and therefore advances the timing.
Thats how I understood it too, the ECU thinks there is even less load and therefore advances the timing.
Yup :)
To be accurate its not the SAFC that advances the ignition, the ECU advances the ignition because it "sees" less load.
archenemy.co.uk
30-11-2004, 13:53
With the SAFC, if you take fuel away it advances the ignition, if you need to richen the mixture it retards the ignition. The SAFC will cope well with a change in AFM (as the SAFC just modifies the AFM signal to the ECU) but is quite poor at coping with a change in injector size, IMO.
My chips can change the fueling and ignition timing maps independently.
Ah so thats better than I thought then, as with the bigger injectors the SAFC is taking away fuel to correct, by your explanation that would advance the timing - improving the response
The ignition is advanced under load to improve pickup isn't it :confused:
Obviously being able to adjust timing and fueling independantly is a good thing. I read that old thread of yours when I was deciding what to do. I thought you were still having a lot of problems so I went this route :indiff: Still the car runs very well, The SAFC and Gary did a good job :thumbs:
Ah so thats better than I thought then, as with the bigger injectors the SAFC is taking away fuel to correct, by your explanation that would advance the timing - improving the response
Yes, thats right.
The ignition is advanced under load to improve pickup isn't it :confused:
No, the ignition becomes more retarded as the engine comes on to boost.
Obviously being able to adjust timing and fueling independantly is a good thing. I read that old thread of yours when I was deciding what to do. I thought you were still having a lot of problems so I went this route :indiff: Still the car runs very well, The SAFC and Gary did a good job :thumbs:
I'd imagine that it can be made to work quite well with 480cc injectors. :) However, the further you get from the stock 370s the worse the problem will become.
archenemy.co.uk
30-11-2004, 14:10
You should start selling these chips overseas, OZ etc depending on their petrol grade etc
Good luck and well done :thumbs:
archenemy.co.uk
30-11-2004, 14:21
I'm a bit confused about this too. When I mapped Philks car on the road I advanced the ignition a bit at the top end but it didn't make any difference to power and it didn't det so I put it back to where it was.
The drop in power is more likely down to the mixture being a bit rich at the top end. I've leaned it out a little on Phils car and got more power from it. :)
So would I be right saying the different ECUs in the S14 & S14a mean that you're using a different map on their chips?
Gary was saying something about the S14a ecu reacting better to changes in boost etc making it smoother
There are slight differences in the standard igntion maps between cars, but I can't see that you'd be able to notice it...
scWirral
06-12-2004, 17:15
Jez, What do you suggest for boost control? I am running one of Bren's valves but it is a bit spiky, although very inexpensive. Next least expensive option would be???
Let me know as soon as the s14a chip is ready for launch. I definately want one.
Simon
Next best value after a bren device is an adjustable actuator. Pain to adjust, but when set the boost should be fairly solid. After that its an electronic boost controller :)
Email me if you want an S14a chip - they're sort of ready - just haven't done all the supporting documentation and web site stuff.
when are you likely to be releasing them Jez?
Tomorrow hopefully :)
Web site has been updated already. Final, final, final testing will be taking place in about 30 mins :)
Bit confused over ignition timing, is it set by your chip or does it have to be set "manually"
Bit confused over ignition timing, is it set by your chip or does it have to be set "manually"
You have to make sure that the ignition timing at idle is set correctly. The service manual tells you how to do it. It should be set to 14-15 deg BTDC, which is the standard setting.
Fair enough, how did final final final testing go?
Just finished. All went well :)
Stage 1 chips are now for sale.
Hey, faster than expected. Great.
Any news about stage 2 chips? Would they be ready in early 2005? Any date?
Regards
Would they be ready in early 2005?
Yes, not sure exactly when :)
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